Boomer outside counsel who insists on calling me incessantly, basically demanding I call him back

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Call him back at like 10pm each time. Less likely to reach him, and if you do he's likely to not want to talk then. Good chance of being able to leave a voicemail that you're returning his call to say there's no update yet, will let him know when there is.

That’s crazy. Why would i, as the client, make an unnecessary call at 10 pm rather than simply sending an email saying there is no update and we don’t need a billable call for me to express that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't answer. Immediately email back that you have no updates.

I agree, but I’d also say in the email that each time we speak it becomes a long (and thereby) expensive call and you are not interested in incurring such expense when it is unnecessary.

He may or may not change behavior, but it helps put him on notice.

cc his boss the second time it happens.

You’re an idiot. If she does that and the boss reads the email he’ll just bill for it too.

i find it odd that so many people are responding here who clearly know little to nothing about how these relationships work.. there is no 'boss' in these situations...

[Anonymous]

Why can’t you handle this, OP? This is basic communication and management.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Call him back at like 10pm each time. Less likely to reach him, and if you do he's likely to not want to talk then. Good chance of being able to leave a voicemail that you're returning his call to say there's no update yet, will let him know when there is.

That’s crazy. Why would i, as the client, make an unnecessary call at 10 pm rather than simply sending an email saying there is no update and we don’t need a billable call for me to express that?

i assume that was sort of a joke...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t you handle this, OP? This is basic communication and management.

are you angry that someone commented that you don't seem to know what you're talking about...?

[Anonymous]

You are rude. Find a new attorney or set limits with this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As you say, you are the client. He serves you and he should fear you.

By letting him run up the bill, you are wasting your company's money and you are also wasting your own time.

He shouldn’t “fear” her FFS. That doesn’t a productive relationship make.

What she needs to do, besides insulting him as a “boomer“, is see if he is in fact, billing her for these calls. And if he is, she needs to simply grow a pair and tell him that he needs to limit the calls because they’re running the bill up. Every client does this all the time. It’s nothing. If she can’t handle this, she’s in the wrong job.

OP here. OF COURSE he is charging for these calls. And I have said to him over and over 'we are watching our outside counsel spend, I'll call you when we need something, right now we are at a standstill on X project..."

Then just tell him you’re happy to take the calls but he can’t bill for them. How long have you been managing outside counsel? You sound like you’re 12.

are you the one suggesting copying 'his boss'? hmmm.... lolz

No I’m not. I’m with Biglaw. I understand how these things work. Every client has their eyes on the bill and every client calls out inefficiencies. OP needs to act like the manager she claims to be and call this out. She’s being ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Refuse to pay for this when he bills for it, and email the managing partner of his firm and explain the situation. I also don’t understand why you answer his calls. Let them go to voicemail and email him in response saying that there are no updates and you’ll let him know if/when there are. And then do not pay for this time if he bills for it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't answer. Immediately email back that you have no updates.

I agree, but I’d also say in the email that each time we speak it becomes a long (and thereby) expensive call and you are not interested in incurring such expense when it is unnecessary.

He may or may not change behavior, but it helps put him on notice.

cc his boss the second time it happens.

You’re an idiot. If she does that and the boss reads the email he’ll just bill for it too.

i find it odd that so many people are responding here who clearly know little to nothing about how these relationships work.. there is no 'boss' in these situations...

Oh, shut up. I meant that if she copies any other lawyer in the law firm, they’re going to Bill for reading it as well. I know it’s not the “boss“ per se.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He's sexist and stupid, and his age does have something to do with it, unfortunately.

Don't pick up. Your time and mental health are your priority. You can respond by email and write in the email that you prefer to communicate via this method.

Please do whatever it takes to not use him again for another project.

Yes, unfortunately age is part of it. He likely grew up at a time when there were no women lawyers at firms. Women were secretaries only. I'm sure he has come a long way, but it does affect one's perception, unintended or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t you handle this, OP? This is basic communication and management.

are you angry that someone commented that you don't seem to know what you're talking about...?

No, I am a new poster.

Are you always this aggressive? Do you always have to ask an internet message board how to manage your outside counsel? Why can’t you handle basic comms?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Refuse to pay for this when he bills for it, and email the managing partner of his firm and explain the situation. I also don’t understand why you answer his calls. Let them go to voicemail and email him in response saying that there are no updates and you’ll let him know if/when there are. And then do not pay for this time if he bills for it!

i'm op. i am not answering his calls. i screen all of them, and email back. I set up meetings when i need them. but he will then call again. it is BIZARRE. no way am i calling the managing partner of his firm, not even sure who that is- its big law- but either way, i am not going to disrupt this relationship right now because we are close to finishing up so i need to find a way to passively manage him. he has started to seem angry about my lack of phone calls though, which feels weird. he is also VERY touchy when i correct him on anything. i emailed him the other day to say 'thanks for your analysis of X issue but please put a pin in any further work because we aren't moving forward on this angle right now..." and he sort of lashed back... and yes, i know how to manage outside counsel, this is an unusual situation...

[Anonymous]

You went to law school and can’t figure out what to do here?

Weird.

[Anonymous]

Does your boss know how much work time you spend on DCUM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's sexist and stupid, and his age does have something to do with it, unfortunately.

Don't pick up. Your time and mental health are your priority. You can respond by email and write in the email that you prefer to communicate via this method.

Please do whatever it takes to not use him again for another project.

Yes, unfortunately age is part of it. He likely grew up at a time when there were no women lawyers at firms. Women were secretaries only. I'm sure he has come a long way, but it does affect one's perception, unintended or not.

That just is impossible for any Boomer lawyer. We have retired female partners from my firm who are in their 70s -- it's not like there weren't women at law firms in the 1980s and 1990s! This is not a new thing. It's also very, very rare for even older lawyers not to understand how email works. I have literally only one opposing counsel that is this way, and it's not due to his age -- it's becasue he's incompetent and also a little shady, so doesn't want things in writing.
Do you review the bills, or is that your inhouse GC? If it's your inhouse GC, let him or her know that this is going on, and that you don't think you should be paying for all these unnecessary and lengthy calls. But generally speaking, I don't see how he can force you to do this. Just don't answer his calls and send an email. Or set a quick 15 minute call for updates bimonthly, and then tell him "I'm sorry -- I need to run to my next meeting." Or just say "Thanks for the update, Bill, This call is running long and I'll need to jump off now, but please email me if there's anything I need to know."