Boomer outside counsel who insists on calling me incessantly, basically demanding I call him back

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Refuse to pay for this when he bills for it, and email the managing partner of his firm and explain the situation. I also don’t understand why you answer his calls. Let them go to voicemail and email him in response saying that there are no updates and you’ll let him know if/when there are. And then do not pay for this time if he bills for it!

i'm op. i am not answering his calls. i screen all of them, and email back. I set up meetings when i need them. but he will then call again. it is BIZARRE. no way am i calling the managing partner of his firm, not even sure who that is- its big law- but either way, i am not going to disrupt this relationship right now because we are close to finishing up so i need to find a way to passively manage him. he has started to seem angry about my lack of phone calls though, which feels weird. he is also VERY touchy when i correct him on anything. i emailed him the other day to say 'thanks for your analysis of X issue but please put a pin in any further work because we aren't moving forward on this angle right now..." and he sort of lashed back... and yes, i know how to manage outside counsel, this is an unusual situation...

A situation you can’t handle so you are asking the internet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boomer is ageism. You both sound somewhat rude.

Eh, boomer is also about not liking technology

Boomers invented the technology.

Boom!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As you say, you are the client. He serves you and he should fear you.

By letting him run up the bill, you are wasting your company's money and you are also wasting your own time.

He shouldn’t “fear” her FFS. That doesn’t a productive relationship make.

What she needs to do, besides insulting him as a “boomer“, is see if he is in fact, billing her for these calls. And if he is, she needs to simply grow a pair and tell him that he needs to limit the calls because they’re running the bill up. Every client does this all the time. It’s nothing. If she can’t handle this, she’s in the wrong job.

OP here. OF COURSE he is charging for these calls. And I have said to him over and over 'we are watching our outside counsel spend, I'll call you when we need something, right now we are at a standstill on X project..."

Then just tell him you’re happy to take the calls but he can’t bill for them. How long have you been managing outside counsel? You sound like you’re 12.

are you the one suggesting copying 'his boss'? hmmm.... lolz

No I’m not. I’m with Biglaw. I understand how these things work. Every client has their eyes on the bill and every client calls out inefficiencies. OP needs to act like the manager she claims to be and call this out. She’s being ridiculous.

Cool, OP here. I would love your perspective. So here's the deal. Yes, the bills are managed and occasionally we/he will cut them, and admittedly partner is giving us a discount from his normal rates. He is the relationship partner, so there's no one else to go to, unless I wanted to escalate to someone else in his firm, which would be like throwing a bomb, so I'm not going to do that. Even though he cuts his bill at times, I don't want to waste time chatting (and yes, I know I'm wasting time here, but that's my choice) and although I appreciate his perspective- he has institutional knowledge- there is also a fair amount of time that can feel wasted and even, well, sort of annoying. The business lead feels this way too, but there is a long relationship history so we are trying to manage this as there is an end in sight. Partner is VERY smart, but definitely has some blind spots socially which impacts things. He has invited the business lead (and me) out for drinks numerous times, as one example, even though we/she has declined over and over. And he does seem very touchy about substantive things- not only the phone calls, but if I correct him on anything, he gets defensive. Obviously the answer could be that we replace him with someone else at Big law firm, but he has kept associates out of these deals (which I don't like) and so now there is no one up to speed. I don't want to insult him as I suspect that aging is part of his defensiveness, so I want to manage this passively without blowing anything up into an 'incident'. You may find that wimpy, but my corporate culture is a very nice one, and that's the way we do it. So other than just ignoring his calls, and responding by email, is there anything else you'd suggest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Refuse to pay for this when he bills for it, and email the managing partner of his firm and explain the situation. I also don’t understand why you answer his calls. Let them go to voicemail and email him in response saying that there are no updates and you’ll let him know if/when there are. And then do not pay for this time if he bills for it!

i'm op. i am not answering his calls. i screen all of them, and email back. I set up meetings when i need them. but he will then call again. it is BIZARRE. no way am i calling the managing partner of his firm, not even sure who that is- its big law- but either way, i am not going to disrupt this relationship right now because we are close to finishing up so i need to find a way to passively manage him. he has started to seem angry about my lack of phone calls though, which feels weird. he is also VERY touchy when i correct him on anything. i emailed him the other day to say 'thanks for your analysis of X issue but please put a pin in any further work because we aren't moving forward on this angle right now..." and he sort of lashed back... and yes, i know how to manage outside counsel, this is an unusual situation...

A situation you can’t handle so you are asking the internet?

Yep. If you have a problem with that, you are free to move on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Boomer is ageism. You both sound somewhat rude.

+1

So sick of Boomer talk.

[Anonymous]

"Boomer is ageism. You both sound somewhat rude."

Agreed. We all want to empathize with you but OP that was troubling language from you right away. Get rid of the age and any other biases you have. We all grew up differently. Bring in a higher level person for a brief check in/escalation as needed. signed, younger person who prefers the phone vs. text.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's sexist and stupid, and his age does have something to do with it, unfortunately.

Don't pick up. Your time and mental health are your priority. You can respond by email and write in the email that you prefer to communicate via this method.

Please do whatever it takes to not use him again for another project.

Yes, unfortunately age is part of it. He likely grew up at a time when there were no women lawyers at firms. Women were secretaries only. I'm sure he has come a long way, but it does affect one's perception, unintended or not.

That just is impossible for any Boomer lawyer. We have retired female partners from my firm who are in their 70s -- it's not like there weren't women at law firms in the 1980s and 1990s! This is not a new thing. It's also very, very rare for even older lawyers not to understand how email works. I have literally only one opposing counsel that is this way, and it's not due to his age -- it's becasue he's incompetent and also a little shady, so doesn't want things in writing.
Do you review the bills, or is that your inhouse GC? If it's your inhouse GC, let him or her know that this is going on, and that you don't think you should be paying for all these unnecessary and lengthy calls. But generally speaking, I don't see how he can force you to do this. Just don't answer his calls and send an email. Or set a quick 15 minute call for updates bimonthly, and then tell him "I'm sorry -- I need to run to my next meeting." Or just say "Thanks for the update, Bill, This call is running long and I'll need to jump off now, but please email me if there's anything I need to know."

If he's close to 80- which he probably is- then he probably went to law school in the early 70s, and no, there were not many (if any) women partners or really many women lawyers at all. Even when I started practicing in the 2000s, there were still far more many male partners than women partners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Boomer is ageism. You both sound somewhat rude."

Agreed. We all want to empathize with you but OP that was troubling language from you right away. Get rid of the age and any other biases you have. We all grew up differently. Bring in a higher level person for a brief check in/escalation as needed. signed, younger person who prefers the phone vs. text.

you are not a lawyer, you don't understand this world, so move on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Boomer is ageism. You both sound somewhat rude."

Agreed. We all want to empathize with you but OP that was troubling language from you right away. Get rid of the age and any other biases you have. We all grew up differently. Bring in a higher level person for a brief check in/escalation as needed. signed, younger person who prefers the phone vs. text.

OP has not yet absorbed her company’s nice corporate culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's sexist and stupid, and his age does have something to do with it, unfortunately.

Don't pick up. Your time and mental health are your priority. You can respond by email and write in the email that you prefer to communicate via this method.

Please do whatever it takes to not use him again for another project.

Yes, unfortunately age is part of it. He likely grew up at a time when there were no women lawyers at firms. Women were secretaries only. I'm sure he has come a long way, but it does affect one's perception, unintended or not.

That just is impossible for any Boomer lawyer. We have retired female partners from my firm who are in their 70s -- it's not like there weren't women at law firms in the 1980s and 1990s! This is not a new thing. It's also very, very rare for even older lawyers not to understand how email works. I have literally only one opposing counsel that is this way, and it's not due to his age -- it's becasue he's incompetent and also a little shady, so doesn't want things in writing.
Do you review the bills, or is that your inhouse GC? If it's your inhouse GC, let him or her know that this is going on, and that you don't think you should be paying for all these unnecessary and lengthy calls. But generally speaking, I don't see how he can force you to do this. Just don't answer his calls and send an email. Or set a quick 15 minute call for updates bimonthly, and then tell him "I'm sorry -- I need to run to my next meeting." Or just say "Thanks for the update, Bill, This call is running long and I'll need to jump off now, but please email me if there's anything I need to know."

If he's close to 80- which he probably is- then he probably went to law school in the early 70s, and no, there were not many (if any) women partners or really many women lawyers at all. Even when I started practicing in the 2000s, there were still far more many male partners than women partners.

Why 80?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Boomer is ageism. You both sound somewhat rude."

Agreed. We all want to empathize with you but OP that was troubling language from you right away. Get rid of the age and any other biases you have. We all grew up differently. Bring in a higher level person for a brief check in/escalation as needed. signed, younger person who prefers the phone vs. text.

you are not a lawyer, you don't understand this world, so move on

How do you know PP is not a lawyer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Boomer is ageism. You both sound somewhat rude."

Agreed. We all want to empathize with you but OP that was troubling language from you right away. Get rid of the age and any other biases you have. We all grew up differently. Bring in a higher level person for a brief check in/escalation as needed. signed, younger person who prefers the phone vs. text.

you are not a lawyer, you don't understand this world, so move on

How do you know PP is not a lawyer?

It’s obvious. I’ll let you ponder

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Boomer is ageism. You both sound somewhat rude."

Agreed. We all want to empathize with you but OP that was troubling language from you right away. Get rid of the age and any other biases you have. We all grew up differently. Bring in a higher level person for a brief check in/escalation as needed. signed, younger person who prefers the phone vs. text.

you are not a lawyer, you don't understand this world, so move on

How do you know PP is not a lawyer?

It’s obvious. I’ll let you ponder

So, you don’t.

[Anonymous]

If a person leaves numerous voicemails and you never call them back once and only email, I believe that comes off as slighting them.

[Anonymous]

big law poster above should answer if he/she is indeed big law as claimed