A Sincere Question about Secular Christmas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is not secular no matter how you spin it. I’ve never celebrated Christmas nor my kids.

98% of Christmas is secular. Many just ignore the 2%.

It's fine if you think it's secular. The problem comes from the small handful of people who think that because they think it's secular, everyone should celebrate it as a secular holiday, too. I personally do not consider Christmas a secular holiday that I feel comfortable celebrating as a quasi-observant Jew. My feeling on Christmas is, everyone can do whatever they want with it, and I won't tell you how to celebrate it if you don't tell me how to celebrate it.

[Anonymous]

It’s whatever you’re accustomed to celebrating. I grew up celebrating Christmas, it was always a beautiful, magical time, especially as a child with the twinkle lights bringing cheer and warmth during the long days of winter, the whimsical decorations and gifts, the traditions, like baking cookies, making pizzelles and sprinkling them with powdered sugar and then leaving them on a special plate for Santa, picking out a Christmas tree and then decorating it and admiring the beauty of the delicate ornaments, Charlie Brown Christmas, Christmas carols, visiting relatives, eating turkey, stuffing, gravy, mashed potatoes, pumpkin pie, hanging stockings, Pollyanna gifts, writing a list for Santa. There’s nothing that compared to this when I was a child, I have such wonderful memories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s whatever you’re accustomed to celebrating. I grew up celebrating Christmas, it was always a beautiful, magical time, especially as a child with the twinkle lights bringing cheer and warmth during the long days of winter, the whimsical decorations and gifts, the traditions, like baking cookies, making pizzelles and sprinkling them with powdered sugar and then leaving them on a special plate for Santa, picking out a Christmas tree and then decorating it and admiring the beauty of the delicate ornaments, Charlie Brown Christmas, Christmas carols, visiting relatives, eating turkey, stuffing, gravy, mashed potatoes, pumpkin pie, hanging stockings, Pollyanna gifts, writing a list for Santa. There’s nothing that compared to this when I was a child, I have such wonderful memories.

+ a million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s whatever you’re accustomed to celebrating. I grew up celebrating Christmas, it was always a beautiful, magical time, especially as a child with the twinkle lights bringing cheer and warmth during the long days of winter, the whimsical decorations and gifts, the traditions, like baking cookies, making pizzelles and sprinkling them with powdered sugar and then leaving them on a special plate for Santa, picking out a Christmas tree and then decorating it and admiring the beauty of the delicate ornaments, Charlie Brown Christmas, Christmas carols, visiting relatives, eating turkey, stuffing, gravy, mashed potatoes, pumpkin pie, hanging stockings, Pollyanna gifts, writing a list for Santa. There’s nothing that compared to this when I was a child, I have such wonderful memories.

I have a lot of the same memories. Many of us do. and I don't know anyone who was hurt by them. Even after I realized that there was no Santa and no baby Jesus, I still loved Christmas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure who your target audience is. I've literally never met anyone like this, with the "insisting".

I’ve definitely heard about people who pressure family members to do Santa with their kids so that Santa’s cover isn’t blown for the families who want to do it.

Nope, when my kids were small there were other kids who spilled the beans. I know some parents who are very antiSanta and frankly quite grinch-like. My kids wanted to believe and continued to do so until one year they just didn’t anymore. It was cute and fun for a very short period of time, childhood is precious, why not believe in tiny bit of magic for a few short years. They’ll outgrow it soon enough.

Except some people keep believing in the baby Jesus into adulthood. And they look down on the people who discard the Santa myth but keep believing in the Baby Jesus myth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s whatever you’re accustomed to celebrating. I grew up celebrating Christmas, it was always a beautiful, magical time, especially as a child with the twinkle lights bringing cheer and warmth during the long days of winter, the whimsical decorations and gifts, the traditions, like baking cookies, making pizzelles and sprinkling them with powdered sugar and then leaving them on a special plate for Santa, picking out a Christmas tree and then decorating it and admiring the beauty of the delicate ornaments, Charlie Brown Christmas, Christmas carols, visiting relatives, eating turkey, stuffing, gravy, mashed potatoes, pumpkin pie, hanging stockings, Pollyanna gifts, writing a list for Santa. There’s nothing that compared to this when I was a child, I have such wonderful memories.

I have a lot of the same memories. Many of us do. and I don't know anyone who was hurt by them. Even after I realized that there was no Santa and no baby Jesus, I still loved Christmas.

I don't think anyone is claiming to be hurt by celebrating Christmas. I think some people are just saying that it's no loss either for them, and that should be enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure who your target audience is. I've literally never met anyone like this, with the "insisting".

I’ve definitely heard about people who pressure family members to do Santa with their kids so that Santa’s cover isn’t blown for the families who want to do it.

Nope, when my kids were small there were other kids who spilled the beans. I know some parents who are very antiSanta and frankly quite grinch-like. My kids wanted to believe and continued to do so until one year they just didn’t anymore. It was cute and fun for a very short period of time, childhood is precious, why not believe in tiny bit of magic for a few short years. They’ll outgrow it soon enough.

Except some people keep believing in the baby Jesus into adulthood. And they look down on the people who discard the Santa myth but keep believing in the Baby Jesus myth.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is not secular no matter how you spin it. I’ve never celebrated Christmas nor my kids.

98% of Christmas is secular. Many just ignore the 2%.

Christmas isn't secular. Its a Christian practice and holiday. I don't understand how you say its secular.

[Anonymous]

Again, call it secular if you want, just don't expect everyone else to agree that it's secular and, therefore, celebrate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is not secular no matter how you spin it. I’ve never celebrated Christmas nor my kids.

98% of Christmas is secular. Many just ignore the 2%.

Christmas isn't secular. Its a Christian practice and holiday. I don't understand how you say its secular.

DP-

Because in addition to its secular roots and history, many people celebrate it in a non-religious way. Certainly you get that, right? For example, there are dozens of popular holiday specials and only one of them mentions Jesus, and thousands of commercials and advertisements, none of which mention Jesus, and many family gatherings which (joyously) occur without mention of Jesus, either tacitly or explicitly. Tons of non-denominal decorations everywhere...

You definitely understand this, I am certain of it. Just because you might celebrate it differently, PPs point is that for many people (ok, possibly not 99% but likely the majority, I guess) celebrate it without a religious meaning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is not secular no matter how you spin it. I’ve never celebrated Christmas nor my kids.

98% of Christmas is secular. Many just ignore the 2%.

Christmas isn't secular. Its a Christian practice and holiday. I don't understand how you say its secular.

DP-

Because in addition to its secular roots and history, many people celebrate it in a non-religious way. Certainly you get that, right? For example, there are dozens of popular holiday specials and only one of them mentions Jesus, and thousands of commercials and advertisements, none of which mention Jesus, and many family gatherings which (joyously) occur without mention of Jesus, either tacitly or explicitly. Tons of non-denominal decorations everywhere...

You definitely understand this, I am certain of it. Just because you might celebrate it differently, PPs point is that for many people (ok, possibly not 99% but likely the majority, I guess) celebrate it without a religious meaning.

This reminds me of one year when we did ICE at the Gaylord. They typically do a clear ice nativity scene at the very end. My son asked why it was there - IIRC correctly, the theme was Peanuts, so it obviously was a stark contrast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Again, call it secular if you want, just don't expect everyone else to agree that it's secular and, therefore, celebrate it.

Unless you are a Republican or live in a red state, no one is forcing you to celebrate Christmas, secular or religious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is not secular no matter how you spin it. I’ve never celebrated Christmas nor my kids.

98% of Christmas is secular. Many just ignore the 2%.

Christmas isn't secular. Its a Christian practice and holiday. I don't understand how you say its secular.

DP-

Because in addition to its secular roots and history, many people celebrate it in a non-religious way. Certainly you get that, right? For example, there are dozens of popular holiday specials and only one of them mentions Jesus, and thousands of commercials and advertisements, none of which mention Jesus, and many family gatherings which (joyously) occur without mention of Jesus, either tacitly or explicitly. Tons of non-denominal decorations everywhere...

You definitely understand this, I am certain of it. Just because you might celebrate it differently, PPs point is that for many people (ok, possibly not 99% but likely the majority, I guess) celebrate it without a religious meaning.

People of nonchristian background don’t usually celebrate it. It has religious meaning. How can you claim otherwise? All Christmas decorations are for the Christian’s holiday. Many other religions and none celebrate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, call it secular if you want, just don't expect everyone else to agree that it's secular and, therefore, celebrate it.

Unless you are a Republican or live in a red state, no one is forcing you to celebrate Christmas, secular or religious.

It is not secular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is not secular no matter how you spin it. I’ve never celebrated Christmas nor my kids.

98% of Christmas is secular. Many just ignore the 2%.

Christmas isn't secular. Its a Christian practice and holiday. I don't understand how you say its secular.

DP-

Because in addition to its secular roots and history, many people celebrate it in a non-religious way. Certainly you get that, right? For example, there are dozens of popular holiday specials and only one of them mentions Jesus, and thousands of commercials and advertisements, none of which mention Jesus, and many family gatherings which (joyously) occur without mention of Jesus, either tacitly or explicitly. Tons of non-denominal decorations everywhere...

You definitely understand this, I am certain of it. Just because you might celebrate it differently, PPs point is that for many people (ok, possibly not 99% but likely the majority, I guess) celebrate it without a religious meaning.

What "secular roots and history" are you talking about? The traditions that Christianity co-opted from other sources? Decorating trees would probably not still be a thing (certainly not as widespread as it is) if Christianity hadn't adopted it into Christmas celebrations and spread it as part of the religious holiday. If anything, the roots and history of Christmas are solidly Christian, and have only grown apart from Christianity as people have dropped their religiosity (the growth of the "nones").

I'll grant you that many people who celebrate Christmas today do it without mention of Jesus or any religious aspect and think of their observance as totally secular. But you have to see how people who don't celebrate it at all (as many Jewish posters have noted) can't divorce its history and roots in Christianity from the "secular" aspects of it, right? It's not about people who celebrate it religiously vs. those who celebrate it secularly; it's about people who just don't celebrate it at all.