A Sincere Question about Secular Christmas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A little history...

Nobody knows the exact date of Jesus's birthday. It almost certainly not in December, because--as I understand it--shepherds would not have been out watching their sheep then in the part of Israel where Jesus was born. When the Holy Roman Empire adopted Christianity as a religion, the people were very reluctant to end the celebration of the biggest feast of the Roman year, Saturnalia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia Gift giving was part of this celebration.

So, somehow early Christianity somehow decided that it would --to use modern day language--culturally appropriate this feast. Jesus's birth would be celebrated at the same time as Saturnalia. It's probable--the Wikipedia article doesn't cover this--that initially this was just a way of early Christians to fit in with the mainstream celebration. Sort of like how Hannukah is a much bigger deal than it was initially so Jewish families could exchange gifts around Christmas time.

Christmas became a big deal--until the Reformon. Many Protestant sects regarded it as a "Papist" holiday and condemned people who celebrated. The Puritans condemned those who took the day off from work. https://ps.edu/why-the-puritans-canceled-christmas/ In the South where the Anglican church held sway, Christmas continued to be celebrated because the Anglican church sought to be "the middle way" and thus kep far more of the trappings of Catholic liturgy --including devotion to saints--than the Puritan north. Colonial Williamsburg went all out with the full 12 days of Christmas celebrations. Maryland, the Catholic colony, celebrated Christmas. Pennsylvania's Quakers did not. THis is mostly accurate. https://theberkshireedge.com/connections-a-brief-history-of-the-american-christmas/

So, in summary. Christmas was a reinvented version of a pagan feast. And many non-Christian countries had some sort of celebration around the time the days started getting longer again. As Christians came into contact with these cultures, they often took elements of their celebrations and incorporated them into Christianity.

Bottom line: celebrating about the time of the Winter solstice with gift giving predates Christianity. You don't need to feel that you're "acting Christian" if you celebrate it.

And this presumes that there even was a baby Jesus, born of a virgin, etc, etc...

[Anonymous]

Grow up. No one forces you to celebrate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure who your target audience is. I've literally never met anyone like this, with the "insisting".

I’ve definitely heard about people who pressure family members to do Santa with their kids so that Santa’s cover isn’t blown for the families who want to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure who your target audience is. I've literally never met anyone like this, with the "insisting".

I’ve definitely heard about people who pressure family members to do Santa with their kids so that Santa’s cover isn’t blown for the families who want to do it.

Nope, when my kids were small there were other kids who spilled the beans. I know some parents who are very antiSanta and frankly quite grinch-like. My kids wanted to believe and continued to do so until one year they just didn’t anymore. It was cute and fun for a very short period of time, childhood is precious, why not believe in tiny bit of magic for a few short years. They’ll outgrow it soon enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure who your target audience is. I've literally never met anyone like this, with the "insisting".

I’ve definitely heard about people who pressure family members to do Santa with their kids so that Santa’s cover isn’t blown for the families who want to do it.

Nope, when my kids were small there were other kids who spilled the beans. I know some parents who are very antiSanta and frankly quite grinch-like. My kids wanted to believe and continued to do so until one year they just didn’t anymore. It was cute and fun for a very short period of time, childhood is precious, why not believe in tiny bit of magic for a few short years. They’ll outgrow it soon enough.

Just because you didn’t pressure people doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure who your target audience is. I've literally never met anyone like this, with the "insisting".

Neither have I.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:—But also why is this in the Religion forum? It’s a question lobbed at the non-Christian celebrants of Christmas.

Where else would you put it?

Off topic.

[Anonymous]

I don’t push people to celebrate, but it’s a fun holiday. Best memories of my childhood. I married a Jew and he “gets it” and loves Christmas, too. I wonder if the anti Christmas people grew up in unhappy households

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t push people to celebrate, but it’s a fun holiday. Best memories of my childhood. I married a Jew and he “gets it” and loves Christmas, too. I wonder if the anti Christmas people grew up in unhappy households

I wouldn’t describe myself as “anti-Christmas,” but I don’t celebrate it in any way because my whole family is Jewish. (Ok, we do go to Chinese food, but other than that, I usually volunteer to work.) I’m perfectly capable of being happy without it. Please don’t assume everyone who doesn’t celebrate is somehow missing out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t push people to celebrate, but it’s a fun holiday. Best memories of my childhood. I married a Jew and he “gets it” and loves Christmas, too. I wonder if the anti Christmas people grew up in unhappy households

I wouldn’t describe myself as “anti-Christmas,” but I don’t celebrate it in any way because my whole family is Jewish. (Ok, we do go to Chinese food, but other than that, I usually volunteer to work.) I’m perfectly capable of being happy without it. Please don’t assume everyone who doesn’t celebrate is somehow missing out.

+1 No deficiency or unhappy childhood here, just have my own holidays and don't need others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t push people to celebrate, but it’s a fun holiday. Best memories of my childhood. I married a Jew and he “gets it” and loves Christmas, too. I wonder if the anti Christmas people grew up in unhappy households

There are anti-Christmas people and there are non-Christmas people. I'd guess the most people who do not celebrate Christmas are simply non-Christmas people.

[Anonymous]

Christmas is not secular no matter how you spin it. I’ve never celebrated Christmas nor my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t push people to celebrate, but it’s a fun holiday. Best memories of my childhood. I married a Jew and he “gets it” and loves Christmas, too. I wonder if the anti Christmas people grew up in unhappy households

It’s a religious holiday. He celebrates it for you. Hanukkah is also a lovely holiday. I pretended to celebrate when my mil was alive and got a small tree and took pictures. I had zero interest in it and it was awkward but it made her happy and I loved her. When she passed I got rid of all the Christmas stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is not secular no matter how you spin it. I’ve never celebrated Christmas nor my kids.

98% of Christmas is secular. Many just ignore the 2%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas is not secular no matter how you spin it. I’ve never celebrated Christmas nor my kids.

98% of Christmas is secular. Many just ignore the 2%.

+1