The Flogging of Basis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think most people go into BASIS with their eyes wide open thanks to countless threads like this one that make them think twice but then hopefully cause them to seek out firsthand experience. The reality is that some people recognize the risk that their kid is not the right type of student for the school but figure they will give it a shot anyway likely because it’s better than the alternative default middle school.

As for the comment that BASIS shouldn’t be a public option because it serves “some”: Charter schools are essentially supposed to serve a “niche” and not be the run of the mill public school because then they can’t justify their existence. Having a school be better for some and not others is not inherently problematic, particularly when considering that most DCPS schools similarly focus on a subsection of the student population: the underperforming student body.

The ire folks have toward BASIS really ought to be redirected to the people that prevent DCPS middle and high schools from serving a broader range of students to include the types of students who perform well at a school like BASIS.

As for whether it should be a selective process, thanks to charter school rules, BASIS DC can’t screen entrants for academic achievement (like schools like DCPS’s Walls) just like language immersion charter schools can’t test entrants for language proficiency (like DCPS’s Oyster Adams). This results in charter schools in DC taking students who, but for a random lottery process, would not have been qualified to enter the school at a particular grade level.
It leads to an unfortunate situation of students struggling and stressing and it’s up to the caregivers to re-evaluate what’s in the best interests of their children.

My guess is BASIS would be on board with an application process (as it does in the other locations where it operates) if such a process were allowed in DC. Again, not really a complaint for BASIS because they didn’t make that rule.

The idea that families who want a school like BASIS should have to pay for private school is troublesome. Private school is cost prohibitive and against values for many families who want to remain part of the public school system.

For those who feel BASIS is some horrible taxpayer expense: I think about the fact that there are many schools and services that my tax dollars pay for that my family will/would never use and yet I pay for them anyway. That’s just how society works. Not everything is for everyone and yet I see the value in making sure different needs are met for different subsets of the population.

There is a subset of the DC student population that is well served at BASIS compared to all other available DC public school options. The important question for prospective families to try to figure out is whether they think they are included in that subset, knowing that many people will naturally fall out of that subset and it’s not necessarily an indictment against the school.

+100

No other comments are needed. Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please no more Basis threads. There is a whole recent thread about this.

Maybe basis should have its on board. My kid isn’t even in kindergarten and I’m tired of the basis debates on this thread.

Mom of incoming K kid and I co-sign. I don’t hate or love Basis. Seems like it works for some kids and families and not others. I think that’s all most of us need to know. Can we talk about something else now?

Love the idea of a separate Basis board for those who want to engage further? I promise to visit it when my kid hits 4th.

[Anonymous]

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[Anonymous]

Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

The refusal to backfill is 100% the reason people get annoyed with BASIS. If the school backfilled, then I don't think people would criticize it at all. Of course, BASIS and its supporters will explain that backfilling would ruin the school. Because then the school would have to educate kids coming in via the lottery at any grade, and apparently BASIS is incapable of educating a child who has not been educated "the BASIS way" since 5th grade.

Compare to Latin, which is also a sought after lottery get for MS and HS, but does backfill (and has lower attrition). Latin still maintains high standards and high achieving students at Latin receive challenging instruction and opportunities via the IB program. But it does this while also operating like a non-application public school, which is what it is, and adding students in later grades when it has room. DCI also does this.

BASIS wants to pick their students without actually being an application school (because DC doesn't permit charters to be application schools). So it does an end-run around this by being a lottery school, having internal policies that heavily discourage any kid who isn't working above grade level in math from continuing, and then refusing to backfill in upper grades. They are cheating the system. That's what people don't like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

The refusal to backfill is 100% the reason people get annoyed with BASIS. If the school backfilled, then I don't think people would criticize it at all. Of course, BASIS and its supporters will explain that backfilling would ruin the school. Because then the school would have to educate kids coming in via the lottery at any grade, and apparently BASIS is incapable of educating a child who has not been educated "the BASIS way" since 5th grade.

Compare to Latin, which is also a sought after lottery get for MS and HS, but does backfill (and has lower attrition). Latin still maintains high standards and high achieving students at Latin receive challenging instruction and opportunities via the IB program. But it does this while also operating like a non-application public school, which is what it is, and adding students in later grades when it has room. DCI also does this.

BASIS wants to pick their students without actually being an application school (because DC doesn't permit charters to be application schools). So it does an end-run around this by being a lottery school, having internal policies that heavily discourage any kid who isn't working above grade level in math from continuing, and then refusing to backfill in upper grades. They are cheating the system. That's what people don't like.

Every single other BASIS school backfills. The only thing kids need to do is pass (not a high pass, mind you. Like a 60%) the math and english comp for the previous grade. This holds entering BASIS students to the exact same standard as any current ones. If a kid lotteries in for 8th grade but doesn't pass the 7th grade comps, they still have a spot at BASIS. They will just have to enroll in 7th grade rather than 8th. There's even wiggle room for parents to push their kids into the higher grade. The main goal for all of the other BASIS schools is not to set kids up for failure. The schools offer a lot of free tutoring and student hours, so there is a lot of time for struggling kids to get help. But, if a kid lacks the basic skills for a grade level, then the extra tutoring is not likely to be enough.

DC laws don't let BASIS DC administer any kind of test for kids entering in the upper grades. That's why they don't backfill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

The refusal to backfill is 100% the reason people get annoyed with BASIS. If the school backfilled, then I don't think people would criticize it at all. Of course, BASIS and its supporters will explain that backfilling would ruin the school. Because then the school would have to educate kids coming in via the lottery at any grade, and apparently BASIS is incapable of educating a child who has not been educated "the BASIS way" since 5th grade.

Compare to Latin, which is also a sought after lottery get for MS and HS, but does backfill (and has lower attrition). Latin still maintains high standards and high achieving students at Latin receive challenging instruction and opportunities via the IB program. But it does this while also operating like a non-application public school, which is what it is, and adding students in later grades when it has room. DCI also does this.

BASIS wants to pick their students without actually being an application school (because DC doesn't permit charters to be application schools). So it does an end-run around this by being a lottery school, having internal policies that heavily discourage any kid who isn't working above grade level in math from continuing, and then refusing to backfill in upper grades. They are cheating the system. That's what people don't like.

Every single other BASIS school backfills. The only thing kids need to do is pass (not a high pass, mind you. Like a 60%) the math and english comp for the previous grade. This holds entering BASIS students to the exact same standard as any current ones. If a kid lotteries in for 8th grade but doesn't pass the 7th grade comps, they still have a spot at BASIS. They will just have to enroll in 7th grade rather than 8th. There's even wiggle room for parents to push their kids into the higher grade. The main goal for all of the other BASIS schools is not to set kids up for failure. The schools offer a lot of free tutoring and student hours, so there is a lot of time for struggling kids to get help. But, if a kid lacks the basic skills for a grade level, then the extra tutoring is not likely to be enough.

DC laws don't let BASIS DC administer any kind of test for kids entering in the upper grades. That's why they don't backfill.

Right, everyone knows why. They don't want to do the work of dealing with kids who are below grade level, and they don't want it to bring down their test scores. Other schools are willing to do the work and take the hit. BASIS is not. We agree on this.

What irritates people about BASIS is the constant claims of "success" and being "#1" when the comparison to other schools is not apples-to-apples. It's disingenuous and therefore annoying.

[Anonymous]

More DC UMC parents EotP don't like the lack of application schools at the middle school level in DCPS, and much in the way of ability grouping/academic tracking. We didn't care for BASIS for other reasons.

We couldn't stand how kids weren't appreciated for their talents, backgrounds or interests like they were for their testing prowess. We failed to appreciate how, if you took up an issue with admins, no matter how small, the message was consistent: pipe down, our way or the highway, you knew you were getting into. And we weren't impressed by how many parents would claim that their 6-8th graders loved the place when they obviously didn't. The franchise-wide PTA/parent association ban and edict against languages being taught before 8th grade weren't much fun either.

Our good memories of are BASIS are few, and we left fairly recently. Kid is much happier at a parochial high school with good facilities, a robust arts program, far more flexibility and range in the curriculum and mature, open-minded admins at the helm who listen and help you willingly. The tuition is a drag, but worth it for the sake of exiting dreary BASIS, a program that seemed to belong in the mid part of the previous century.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

The refusal to backfill is 100% the reason people get annoyed with BASIS. If the school backfilled, then I don't think people would criticize it at all. Of course, BASIS and its supporters will explain that backfilling would ruin the school. Because then the school would have to educate kids coming in via the lottery at any grade, and apparently BASIS is incapable of educating a child who has not been educated "the BASIS way" since 5th grade.

Compare to Latin, which is also a sought after lottery get for MS and HS, but does backfill (and has lower attrition). Latin still maintains high standards and high achieving students at Latin receive challenging instruction and opportunities via the IB program. But it does this while also operating like a non-application public school, which is what it is, and adding students in later grades when it has room. DCI also does this.

BASIS wants to pick their students without actually being an application school (because DC doesn't permit charters to be application schools). So it does an end-run around this by being a lottery school, having internal policies that heavily discourage any kid who isn't working above grade level in math from continuing, and then refusing to backfill in upper grades. They are cheating the system. That's what people don't like.

Every single other BASIS school backfills. The only thing kids need to do is pass (not a high pass, mind you. Like a 60%) the math and english comp for the previous grade. This holds entering BASIS students to the exact same standard as any current ones. If a kid lotteries in for 8th grade but doesn't pass the 7th grade comps, they still have a spot at BASIS. They will just have to enroll in 7th grade rather than 8th. There's even wiggle room for parents to push their kids into the higher grade. The main goal for all of the other BASIS schools is not to set kids up for failure. The schools offer a lot of free tutoring and student hours, so there is a lot of time for struggling kids to get help. But, if a kid lacks the basic skills for a grade level, then the extra tutoring is not likely to be enough.

DC laws don't let BASIS DC administer any kind of test for kids entering in the upper grades. That's why they don't backfill.

Right, everyone knows why. They don't want to do the work of dealing with kids who are below grade level, and they don't want it to bring down their test scores. Other schools are willing to do the work and take the hit. BASIS is not. We agree on this.

What irritates people about BASIS is the constant claims of "success" and being "#1" when the comparison to other schools is not apples-to-apples. It's disingenuous and therefore annoying.

But it isn't about not wanting to do the work. Basis is a small school, and they can't offer tons of different levels. Aside from electives, all 7th graders take the same courses. This is true at almost any very small private or charter. At Basis, 7th grade math is Algebra I. The Basis teachers and student tutors will work their tails off to help kids pass algebra. But, if a kid enters who is woefully unprepared for Algebra, there's only so much the teachers can do. They can support kids in the existing classes, but they don't have the resources to add a bunch of new class levels for kids who are unready for the ones offered at basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

The refusal to backfill is 100% the reason people get annoyed with BASIS. If the school backfilled, then I don't think people would criticize it at all. Of course, BASIS and its supporters will explain that backfilling would ruin the school. Because then the school would have to educate kids coming in via the lottery at any grade, and apparently BASIS is incapable of educating a child who has not been educated "the BASIS way" since 5th grade.

Compare to Latin, which is also a sought after lottery get for MS and HS, but does backfill (and has lower attrition). Latin still maintains high standards and high achieving students at Latin receive challenging instruction and opportunities via the IB program. But it does this while also operating like a non-application public school, which is what it is, and adding students in later grades when it has room. DCI also does this.

BASIS wants to pick their students without actually being an application school (because DC doesn't permit charters to be application schools). So it does an end-run around this by being a lottery school, having internal policies that heavily discourage any kid who isn't working above grade level in math from continuing, and then refusing to backfill in upper grades. They are cheating the system. That's what people don't like.

Every single other BASIS school backfills. The only thing kids need to do is pass (not a high pass, mind you. Like a 60%) the math and english comp for the previous grade. This holds entering BASIS students to the exact same standard as any current ones. If a kid lotteries in for 8th grade but doesn't pass the 7th grade comps, they still have a spot at BASIS. They will just have to enroll in 7th grade rather than 8th. There's even wiggle room for parents to push their kids into the higher grade. The main goal for all of the other BASIS schools is not to set kids up for failure. The schools offer a lot of free tutoring and student hours, so there is a lot of time for struggling kids to get help. But, if a kid lacks the basic skills for a grade level, then the extra tutoring is not likely to be enough.

DC laws don't let BASIS DC administer any kind of test for kids entering in the upper grades. That's why they don't backfill.

Right, everyone knows why. They don't want to do the work of dealing with kids who are below grade level, and they don't want it to bring down their test scores. Other schools are willing to do the work and take the hit. BASIS is not. We agree on this.

What irritates people about BASIS is the constant claims of "success" and being "#1" when the comparison to other schools is not apples-to-apples. It's disingenuous and therefore annoying.

But it isn't about not wanting to do the work. Basis is a small school, and they can't offer tons of different levels. Aside from electives, all 7th graders take the same courses. This is true at almost any very small private or charter. At Basis, 7th grade math is Algebra I. The Basis teachers and student tutors will work their tails off to help kids pass algebra. But, if a kid enters who is woefully unprepared for Algebra, there's only so much the teachers can do. They can support kids in the existing classes, but they don't have the resources to add a bunch of new class levels for kids who are unready for the ones offered at basis.

Oh FFS no it isn't. There are lots of middle schools close to BASIS in size that do this. Such as DCPS' smaller middle schools, and ITDS and Two Rivers. Because offering different levels and working with kids of different abilities doesn't have to require a separate room. It's just a different group. And other schools don't seem to find it so hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More DC UMC parents EotP don't like the lack of application schools at the middle school level in DCPS, and much in the way of ability grouping/academic tracking. We didn't care for BASIS for other reasons.

We couldn't stand how kids weren't appreciated for their talents, backgrounds or interests like they were for their testing prowess. We failed to appreciate how, if you took up an issue with admins, no matter how small, the message was consistent: pipe down, our way or the highway, you knew you were getting into. And we weren't impressed by how many parents would claim that their 6-8th graders loved the place when they obviously didn't. The franchise-wide PTA/parent association ban and edict against languages being taught before 8th grade weren't much fun either.

Our good memories of are BASIS are few, and we left fairly recently. Kid is much happier at a parochial high school with good facilities, a robust arts program, far more flexibility and range in the curriculum and mature, open-minded admins at the helm who listen and help you willingly. The tuition is a drag, but worth it for the sake of exiting dreary BASIS, a program that seemed to belong in the mid part of the previous century.

That's exactly why some of us love BASIS. I want my kids at an old-school kind of school where they're taking notes by hand in a notebook, using minimal tech, following textbooks, getting a reasonable homework load, earning less inflated grades than most other schools, and having high levels of accountability. To each his own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

The refusal to backfill is 100% the reason people get annoyed with BASIS. If the school backfilled, then I don't think people would criticize it at all. Of course, BASIS and its supporters will explain that backfilling would ruin the school. Because then the school would have to educate kids coming in via the lottery at any grade, and apparently BASIS is incapable of educating a child who has not been educated "the BASIS way" since 5th grade.

Compare to Latin, which is also a sought after lottery get for MS and HS, but does backfill (and has lower attrition). Latin still maintains high standards and high achieving students at Latin receive challenging instruction and opportunities via the IB program. But it does this while also operating like a non-application public school, which is what it is, and adding students in later grades when it has room. DCI also does this.

BASIS wants to pick their students without actually being an application school (because DC doesn't permit charters to be application schools). So it does an end-run around this by being a lottery school, having internal policies that heavily discourage any kid who isn't working above grade level in math from continuing, and then refusing to backfill in upper grades. They are cheating the system. That's what people don't like.

Every single other BASIS school backfills. The only thing kids need to do is pass (not a high pass, mind you. Like a 60%) the math and english comp for the previous grade. This holds entering BASIS students to the exact same standard as any current ones. If a kid lotteries in for 8th grade but doesn't pass the 7th grade comps, they still have a spot at BASIS. They will just have to enroll in 7th grade rather than 8th. There's even wiggle room for parents to push their kids into the higher grade. The main goal for all of the other BASIS schools is not to set kids up for failure. The schools offer a lot of free tutoring and student hours, so there is a lot of time for struggling kids to get help. But, if a kid lacks the basic skills for a grade level, then the extra tutoring is not likely to be enough.

DC laws don't let BASIS DC administer any kind of test for kids entering in the upper grades. That's why they don't backfill.

Right, everyone knows why. They don't want to do the work of dealing with kids who are below grade level, and they don't want it to bring down their test scores. Other schools are willing to do the work and take the hit. BASIS is not. We agree on this.

What irritates people about BASIS is the constant claims of "success" and being "#1" when the comparison to other schools is not apples-to-apples. It's disingenuous and therefore annoying.

But it isn't about not wanting to do the work. Basis is a small school, and they can't offer tons of different levels. Aside from electives, all 7th graders take the same courses. This is true at almost any very small private or charter. At Basis, 7th grade math is Algebra I. The Basis teachers and student tutors will work their tails off to help kids pass algebra. But, if a kid enters who is woefully unprepared for Algebra, there's only so much the teachers can do. They can support kids in the existing classes, but they don't have the resources to add a bunch of new class levels for kids who are unready for the ones offered at basis.

Stuart-Hobson is very close to the same size as BASIS middle school and they manage to do it.

You can't keep out/push out all the below-grade-level kids and then claim you can't serve them because, aw shucks, the school is just too small. That's WHY it's small!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

The refusal to backfill is 100% the reason people get annoyed with BASIS. If the school backfilled, then I don't think people would criticize it at all. Of course, BASIS and its supporters will explain that backfilling would ruin the school. Because then the school would have to educate kids coming in via the lottery at any grade, and apparently BASIS is incapable of educating a child who has not been educated "the BASIS way" since 5th grade.

Compare to Latin, which is also a sought after lottery get for MS and HS, but does backfill (and has lower attrition). Latin still maintains high standards and high achieving students at Latin receive challenging instruction and opportunities via the IB program. But it does this while also operating like a non-application public school, which is what it is, and adding students in later grades when it has room. DCI also does this.

BASIS wants to pick their students without actually being an application school (because DC doesn't permit charters to be application schools). So it does an end-run around this by being a lottery school, having internal policies that heavily discourage any kid who isn't working above grade level in math from continuing, and then refusing to backfill in upper grades. They are cheating the system. That's what people don't like.

Every single other BASIS school backfills. The only thing kids need to do is pass (not a high pass, mind you. Like a 60%) the math and english comp for the previous grade. This holds entering BASIS students to the exact same standard as any current ones. If a kid lotteries in for 8th grade but doesn't pass the 7th grade comps, they still have a spot at BASIS. They will just have to enroll in 7th grade rather than 8th. There's even wiggle room for parents to push their kids into the higher grade. The main goal for all of the other BASIS schools is not to set kids up for failure. The schools offer a lot of free tutoring and student hours, so there is a lot of time for struggling kids to get help. But, if a kid lacks the basic skills for a grade level, then the extra tutoring is not likely to be enough.

DC laws don't let BASIS DC administer any kind of test for kids entering in the upper grades. That's why they don't backfill.

Right, everyone knows why. They don't want to do the work of dealing with kids who are below grade level, and they don't want it to bring down their test scores. Other schools are willing to do the work and take the hit. BASIS is not. We agree on this.

What irritates people about BASIS is the constant claims of "success" and being "#1" when the comparison to other schools is not apples-to-apples. It's disingenuous and therefore annoying.

But it isn't about not wanting to do the work. Basis is a small school, and they can't offer tons of different levels. Aside from electives, all 7th graders take the same courses. This is true at almost any very small private or charter. At Basis, 7th grade math is Algebra I. The Basis teachers and student tutors will work their tails off to help kids pass algebra. But, if a kid enters who is woefully unprepared for Algebra, there's only so much the teachers can do. They can support kids in the existing classes, but they don't have the resources to add a bunch of new class levels for kids who are unready for the ones offered at basis.

Oh FFS no it isn't. There are lots of middle schools close to BASIS in size that do this. Such as DCPS' smaller middle schools, and ITDS and Two Rivers. Because offering different levels and working with kids of different abilities doesn't have to require a separate room. It's just a different group. And other schools don't seem to find it so hard.

There are any schools out there teaching both pre-algebra and Algebra I in the same classroom with different groups? Name the school, or it isn't happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

The refusal to backfill is 100% the reason people get annoyed with BASIS. If the school backfilled, then I don't think people would criticize it at all. Of course, BASIS and its supporters will explain that backfilling would ruin the school. Because then the school would have to educate kids coming in via the lottery at any grade, and apparently BASIS is incapable of educating a child who has not been educated "the BASIS way" since 5th grade.

Compare to Latin, which is also a sought after lottery get for MS and HS, but does backfill (and has lower attrition). Latin still maintains high standards and high achieving students at Latin receive challenging instruction and opportunities via the IB program. But it does this while also operating like a non-application public school, which is what it is, and adding students in later grades when it has room. DCI also does this.

BASIS wants to pick their students without actually being an application school (because DC doesn't permit charters to be application schools). So it does an end-run around this by being a lottery school, having internal policies that heavily discourage any kid who isn't working above grade level in math from continuing, and then refusing to backfill in upper grades. They are cheating the system. That's what people don't like.

Every single other BASIS school backfills. The only thing kids need to do is pass (not a high pass, mind you. Like a 60%) the math and english comp for the previous grade. This holds entering BASIS students to the exact same standard as any current ones. If a kid lotteries in for 8th grade but doesn't pass the 7th grade comps, they still have a spot at BASIS. They will just have to enroll in 7th grade rather than 8th. There's even wiggle room for parents to push their kids into the higher grade. The main goal for all of the other BASIS schools is not to set kids up for failure. The schools offer a lot of free tutoring and student hours, so there is a lot of time for struggling kids to get help. But, if a kid lacks the basic skills for a grade level, then the extra tutoring is not likely to be enough.

DC laws don't let BASIS DC administer any kind of test for kids entering in the upper grades. That's why they don't backfill.

Right, everyone knows why. They don't want to do the work of dealing with kids who are below grade level, and they don't want it to bring down their test scores. Other schools are willing to do the work and take the hit. BASIS is not. We agree on this.

What irritates people about BASIS is the constant claims of "success" and being "#1" when the comparison to other schools is not apples-to-apples. It's disingenuous and therefore annoying.

But it isn't about not wanting to do the work. Basis is a small school, and they can't offer tons of different levels. Aside from electives, all 7th graders take the same courses. This is true at almost any very small private or charter. At Basis, 7th grade math is Algebra I. The Basis teachers and student tutors will work their tails off to help kids pass algebra. But, if a kid enters who is woefully unprepared for Algebra, there's only so much the teachers can do. They can support kids in the existing classes, but they don't have the resources to add a bunch of new class levels for kids who are unready for the ones offered at basis.

Oh FFS no it isn't. There are lots of middle schools close to BASIS in size that do this. Such as DCPS' smaller middle schools, and ITDS and Two Rivers. Because offering different levels and working with kids of different abilities doesn't have to require a separate room. It's just a different group. And other schools don't seem to find it so hard.

There are any schools out there teaching both pre-algebra and Algebra I in the same classroom with different groups? Name the school, or it isn't happening.

Inspired Teaching. They have about 40-50 kids per grade in the middle school. There are multiple adults in the math classrooms and sometimes they do use a table in the hall, but yes they offer Algebra I (and next year plan to Geometry) while also meeting some kids at a lower level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

The refusal to backfill is 100% the reason people get annoyed with BASIS. If the school backfilled, then I don't think people would criticize it at all. Of course, BASIS and its supporters will explain that backfilling would ruin the school. Because then the school would have to educate kids coming in via the lottery at any grade, and apparently BASIS is incapable of educating a child who has not been educated "the BASIS way" since 5th grade.

Compare to Latin, which is also a sought after lottery get for MS and HS, but does backfill (and has lower attrition). Latin still maintains high standards and high achieving students at Latin receive challenging instruction and opportunities via the IB program. But it does this while also operating like a non-application public school, which is what it is, and adding students in later grades when it has room. DCI also does this.

BASIS wants to pick their students without actually being an application school (because DC doesn't permit charters to be application schools). So it does an end-run around this by being a lottery school, having internal policies that heavily discourage any kid who isn't working above grade level in math from continuing, and then refusing to backfill in upper grades. They are cheating the system. That's what people don't like.

Every single other BASIS school backfills. The only thing kids need to do is pass (not a high pass, mind you. Like a 60%) the math and english comp for the previous grade. This holds entering BASIS students to the exact same standard as any current ones. If a kid lotteries in for 8th grade but doesn't pass the 7th grade comps, they still have a spot at BASIS. They will just have to enroll in 7th grade rather than 8th. There's even wiggle room for parents to push their kids into the higher grade. The main goal for all of the other BASIS schools is not to set kids up for failure. The schools offer a lot of free tutoring and student hours, so there is a lot of time for struggling kids to get help. But, if a kid lacks the basic skills for a grade level, then the extra tutoring is not likely to be enough.

DC laws don't let BASIS DC administer any kind of test for kids entering in the upper grades. That's why they don't backfill.

Right, everyone knows why. They don't want to do the work of dealing with kids who are below grade level, and they don't want it to bring down their test scores. Other schools are willing to do the work and take the hit. BASIS is not. We agree on this.

What irritates people about BASIS is the constant claims of "success" and being "#1" when the comparison to other schools is not apples-to-apples. It's disingenuous and therefore annoying.

+1. It’s this. Sure the other schools would have much higher test scores if they did not pass all the kids who were below grade level or counseled them out.

Basis also has a very high attrition rate from the middle to high school. Many of these kids are actually the higher performing ones. Yes, they are going to other schools, and the reason why is because they are not happy at Basis and want a more well rounded and fulfilling school experience.