The Flogging of Basis

[Anonymous]

So a thread that started with the mystery of why people dislike Basis ends with a proposal to sacrifice other people’s children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So a thread that started with the mystery of why people dislike Basis ends with a proposal to sacrifice other people’s children.

don't forget there was also a person who said their support for basis is because they want to send their kid to a private school but want everyone else to pay for it.

I still don't get why there's so much anger about BASIS.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Basis is the only public school without social promotion, so it is no surprise that some kids drop out.

Plenty of private schools “counsel out” low performers.

Functionally, it is the same thing.

And that is a decidedly good model for children who had to put up with troubled children all through elementary — a scarring experience. I was floored to discover 1/3 of my child’s 4th grade class SPED, 504/IEP, or some other accommodation, while my child was dismissed as “just fine.” That’s why Basis - for all its faults - is refreshing.

Wait-- are you saying BASIS doesn't have children with IEPs and 504s? Because that's something BASIS will deny. Are they lying?

I’ll let Basis address that, as it’s not my business. Suffice to say that, unlike my kids’ elementary, Basis isn’t a special ed center with a school as a mere appendage.

So no IEPs or 504s? Or poor supports? Anyone know the answer to the question of whether this public school serves these kids?

It seems that this needs to be thoroughly investigated.

I hate the fact that only some needs are "special" and if your kid has no such favored "need" they're essentially invisible. We can tolerate 2-3 per class, but when it gets 1/3+ of the class, it's just a classroom that revolves around special needs with all others deprioritized.

I don't know what Basis' numbers are like, but they sure as hell don't let the needs of the few dominate the class.

Favored? “Need” in quotes?

Interesting. This is a public school, right? How exactly do they sure as hell only serve certain kids?

Because after a certain tipping point, a class becomes focused on the provision of special needs support leaving the non “special” kids neglected. If just a simple bandwidth issue when nothing can be done without special consideration to a critical mass of certain kids.

The essential problem is that most of these kids who need diversion are not actually developmentally delayed or have ODD, they are simply bad kids acting out. The US doesn’t have a model for young kids acting anti socially in school, and just isn’t as paternalistic as other countries who do not allow disruptive behavior in the classroom, are unafraid to sanction it, and will punish the family as well as the kids. I’m not saying the European or Asian models are good models- they produce vast inequities, especially in minority groups in Europe, so you can imagine how that would work out. But the model is to separate disruptive kids out and if need be take the kids away from parents early.

So does BASIS get out of serving kids with 504s? How?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Basis is the only public school without social promotion, so it is no surprise that some kids drop out.

Plenty of private schools “counsel out” low performers.

Functionally, it is the same thing.

And that is a decidedly good model for children who had to put up with troubled children all through elementary — a scarring experience. I was floored to discover 1/3 of my child’s 4th grade class SPED, 504/IEP, or some other accommodation, while my child was dismissed as “just fine.” That’s why Basis - for all its faults - is refreshing.

Wait-- are you saying BASIS doesn't have children with IEPs and 504s? Because that's something BASIS will deny. Are they lying?

I’ll let Basis address that, as it’s not my business. Suffice to say that, unlike my kids’ elementary, Basis isn’t a special ed center with a school as a mere appendage.

So no IEPs or 504s? Or poor supports? Anyone know the answer to the question of whether this public school serves these kids?

It seems that this needs to be thoroughly investigated.

I hate the fact that only some needs are "special" and if your kid has no such favored "need" they're essentially invisible. We can tolerate 2-3 per class, but when it gets 1/3+ of the class, it's just a classroom that revolves around special needs with all others deprioritized.

I don't know what Basis' numbers are like, but they sure as hell don't let the needs of the few dominate the class.

Favored? “Need” in quotes?

Interesting. This is a public school, right? How exactly do they sure as hell only serve certain kids?

Because after a certain tipping point, a class becomes focused on the provision of special needs support leaving the non “special” kids neglected. If just a simple bandwidth issue when nothing can be done without special consideration to a critical mass of certain kids.

The essential problem is that most of these kids who need diversion are not actually developmentally delayed or have ODD, they are simply bad kids acting out. The US doesn’t have a model for young kids acting anti socially in school, and just isn’t as paternalistic as other countries who do not allow disruptive behavior in the classroom, are unafraid to sanction it, and will punish the family as well as the kids. I’m not saying the European or Asian models are good models- they produce vast inequities, especially in minority groups in Europe, so you can imagine how that would work out. But the model is to separate disruptive kids out and if need be take the kids away from parents early.

So does BASIS get out of serving kids with 504s? How?

By burying them with work and making them so demoralized they want to leave.

[Anonymous]

So weve covered why non basis parents care - But why do basis parents get so angry? Your kid is already there - if you think it was the right decision, why do you need the approval of the rest of us?

You got the niche curriculum and school that culls those that don’t fit like a private, all for free… what else do you want from us?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Basis is the only public school without social promotion, so it is no surprise that some kids drop out.

Plenty of private schools “counsel out” low performers.

Functionally, it is the same thing.

And that is a decidedly good model for children who had to put up with troubled children all through elementary — a scarring experience. I was floored to discover 1/3 of my child’s 4th grade class SPED, 504/IEP, or some other accommodation, while my child was dismissed as “just fine.” That’s why Basis - for all its faults - is refreshing.

Wait-- are you saying BASIS doesn't have children with IEPs and 504s? Because that's something BASIS will deny. Are they lying?

I’ll let Basis address that, as it’s not my business. Suffice to say that, unlike my kids’ elementary, Basis isn’t a special ed center with a school as a mere appendage.

So no IEPs or 504s? Or poor supports? Anyone know the answer to the question of whether this public school serves these kids?

It seems that this needs to be thoroughly investigated.

I hate the fact that only some needs are "special" and if your kid has no such favored "need" they're essentially invisible. We can tolerate 2-3 per class, but when it gets 1/3+ of the class, it's just a classroom that revolves around special needs with all others deprioritized.

I don't know what Basis' numbers are like, but they sure as hell don't let the needs of the few dominate the class.

Favored? “Need” in quotes?

Interesting. This is a public school, right? How exactly do they sure as hell only serve certain kids?

Because after a certain tipping point, a class becomes focused on the provision of special needs support leaving the non “special” kids neglected. If just a simple bandwidth issue when nothing can be done without special consideration to a critical mass of certain kids.

The essential problem is that most of these kids who need diversion are not actually developmentally delayed or have ODD, they are simply bad kids acting out. The US doesn’t have a model for young kids acting anti socially in school, and just isn’t as paternalistic as other countries who do not allow disruptive behavior in the classroom, are unafraid to sanction it, and will punish the family as well as the kids. I’m not saying the European or Asian models are good models- they produce vast inequities, especially in minority groups in Europe, so you can imagine how that would work out. But the model is to separate disruptive kids out and if need be take the kids away from parents early.

So does BASIS get out of serving kids with 504s? How?

By burying them with work and making them so demoralized they want to leave.

Of course, many perfectly “normal” kids have the same experience at Basis. The fact that something hits even harder for kids with challenges doesn’t mean it’s problematic on that basis.

Making a program “accessible” to kids with challenges shouldn’t result in changes to the substances of the program in a way that changes the program for other kids, otherwise you let the needs of one segment dictate what is offered to the majority.

What you should do (and often what does not happen) is give kids with challenges scaffolding or alternative assessment measures in light of their challenges. But some folks think that the base curriculum should be crafted to the needs of “all” kids, which just seems unfair.

My kids’ elementary has essentially turned into a dynamic where the needs of a distinct class of high needs kids dictates everything in practice because those kids are given inadequate supports. What they all really need are private placements in schools like the Lab School, etc. I’d gladly have my tax dollars go to that.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, it sounds like all of these recent BASIS threads are being started by BASIS haters trying to incite anger against the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So weve covered why non basis parents care - But why do basis parents get so angry? Your kid is already there - if you think it was the right decision, why do you need the approval of the rest of us?

You got the niche curriculum and school that culls those that don’t fit like a private, all for free… what else do you want from us?

True enough.

As their kids head off to T20 colleges, they are just laughing at the haters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So weve covered why non basis parents care - But why do basis parents get so angry? Your kid is already there - if you think it was the right decision, why do you need the approval of the rest of us?

You got the niche curriculum and school that culls those that don’t fit like a private, all for free… what else do you want from us?

True enough.

As their kids head off to T20 colleges, they are just laughing at the haters.

Once again, another answer as to why people "flog" BASIS -- because this kind of attitude is really gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, it sounds like all of these recent BASIS threads are being started by BASIS haters trying to incite anger against the school.

Nope, this thread and the one just like it a few days ago was started by a Basis boosters basically putting down all schools but theirs.

No wonder so many people can’t stand Basis. It’s also very tiring when Basis posters point out stats without admitting self selection. You guys really have no insight.

[Anonymous]

Please don’t judge BASIS by these threads. I’m convinced that some of the “boosters” are actually trolls looking to create conflict and hate for the school on a routine basis. Really wish these posts would just stop because they are not, in my experience, representative of the families who attend. The people I know who think well of the school not only understand its shortcomings but do not feel the need to convince people here that it’s the best. It’s most certainly not the best for everyone, but a really wonderful opportunity for some. For anyone interested in the school, please do your own research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t judge BASIS by these threads. I’m convinced that some of the “boosters” are actually trolls looking to create conflict and hate for the school on a routine basis. Really wish these posts would just stop because they are not, in my experience, representative of the families who attend. The people I know who think well of the school not only understand its shortcomings but do not feel the need to convince people here that it’s the best. It’s most certainly not the best for everyone, but a really wonderful opportunity for some. For anyone interested in the school, please do your own research.

It sounds like a great program… for some (as you noted) but I’m not convinced it should be a public option. Some of the basis schools are private and the format sounds great for a private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t judge BASIS by these threads. I’m convinced that some of the “boosters” are actually trolls looking to create conflict and hate for the school on a routine basis. Really wish these posts would just stop because they are not, in my experience, representative of the families who attend. The people I know who think well of the school not only understand its shortcomings but do not feel the need to convince people here that it’s the best. It’s most certainly not the best for everyone, but a really wonderful opportunity for some. For anyone interested in the school, please do your own research.

It sounds like a great program… for some (as you noted) but I’m not convinced it should be a public option. Some of the basis schools are private and the format sounds great for a private.

Sp, I also object to the marketing. Everyone who goes in thinks they’re getting into something special and the reality is that most won’t last and some leave quite hurt by the process. I just think it should be a much more selective process and I think the stuff about the test scores and college admittance is all very deceptive.

[Anonymous]

I think most people go into BASIS with their eyes wide open thanks to countless threads like this one that make them think twice but then hopefully cause them to seek out firsthand experience. The reality is that some people recognize the risk that their kid is not the right type of student for the school but figure they will give it a shot anyway likely because it’s better than the alternative default middle school.

As for the comment that BASIS shouldn’t be a public option because it serves “some”: Charter schools are essentially supposed to serve a “niche” and not be the run of the mill public school because then they can’t justify their existence. Having a school be better for some and not others is not inherently problematic, particularly when considering that most DCPS schools similarly focus on a subsection of the student population: the underperforming student body.

The ire folks have toward BASIS really ought to be redirected to the people that prevent DCPS middle and high schools from serving a broader range of students to include the types of students who perform well at a school like BASIS.

As for whether it should be a selective process, thanks to charter school rules, BASIS DC can’t screen entrants for academic achievement (like schools like DCPS’s Walls) just like language immersion charter schools can’t test entrants for language proficiency (like DCPS’s Oyster Adams). This results in charter schools in DC taking students who, but for a random lottery process, would not have been qualified to enter the school at a particular grade level.
It leads to an unfortunate situation of students struggling and stressing and it’s up to the caregivers to re-evaluate what’s in the best interests of their children.

My guess is BASIS would be on board with an application process (as it does in the other locations where it operates) if such a process were allowed in DC. Again, not really a complaint for BASIS because they didn’t make that rule.

The idea that families who want a school like BASIS should have to pay for private school is troublesome. Private school is cost prohibitive and against values for many families who want to remain part of the public school system.

For those who feel BASIS is some horrible taxpayer expense: I think about the fact that there are many schools and services that my tax dollars pay for that my family will/would never use and yet I pay for them anyway. That’s just how society works. Not everything is for everyone and yet I see the value in making sure different needs are met for different subsets of the population.

There is a subset of the DC student population that is well served at BASIS compared to all other available DC public school options. The important question for prospective families to try to figure out is whether they think they are included in that subset, knowing that many people will naturally fall out of that subset and it’s not necessarily an indictment against the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think most people go into BASIS with their eyes wide open thanks to countless threads like this one that make them think twice but then hopefully cause them to seek out firsthand experience. The reality is that some people recognize the risk that their kid is not the right type of student for the school but figure they will give it a shot anyway likely because it’s better than the alternative default middle school.

As for the comment that BASIS shouldn’t be a public option because it serves “some”: Charter schools are essentially supposed to serve a “niche” and not be the run of the mill public school because then they can’t justify their existence. Having a school be better for some and not others is not inherently problematic, particularly when considering that most DCPS schools similarly focus on a subsection of the student population: the underperforming student body.

The ire folks have toward BASIS really ought to be redirected to the people that prevent DCPS middle and high schools from serving a broader range of students to include the types of students who perform well at a school like BASIS.

As for whether it should be a selective process, thanks to charter school rules, BASIS DC can’t screen entrants for academic achievement (like schools like DCPS’s Walls) just like language immersion charter schools can’t test entrants for language proficiency (like DCPS’s Oyster Adams). This results in charter schools in DC taking students who, but for a random lottery process, would not have been qualified to enter the school at a particular grade level.
It leads to an unfortunate situation of students struggling and stressing and it’s up to the caregivers to re-evaluate what’s in the best interests of their children.

My guess is BASIS would be on board with an application process (as it does in the other locations where it operates) if such a process were allowed in DC. Again, not really a complaint for BASIS because they didn’t make that rule.

The idea that families who want a school like BASIS should have to pay for private school is troublesome. Private school is cost prohibitive and against values for many families who want to remain part of the public school system.

For those who feel BASIS is some horrible taxpayer expense: I think about the fact that there are many schools and services that my tax dollars pay for that my family will/would never use and yet I pay for them anyway. That’s just how society works. Not everything is for everyone and yet I see the value in making sure different needs are met for different subsets of the population.

There is a subset of the DC student population that is well served at BASIS compared to all other available DC public school options. The important question for prospective families to try to figure out is whether they think they are included in that subset, knowing that many people will naturally fall out of that subset and it’s not necessarily an indictment against the school.

This is so clear and rational it should end the conversation.