The Flogging of Basis

[Anonymous]

BASIS is almost exactly the same per-grade enrollment as Eliot-Hine (averaging middle school grades together). BASIS booster, why don't you explain why Eliot-Hine is willing and able to serve all comers and still offer Algebra I while BASIS is not. Because it's clearly not a matter of size.

Sousa middle school offers Geometry btw. So does Wells. So does Oyster-Adams. So does Latin. So please fill us in on why this is impossible for BASIS while also serving below-grade kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

The refusal to backfill is 100% the reason people get annoyed with BASIS. If the school backfilled, then I don't think people would criticize it at all. Of course, BASIS and its supporters will explain that backfilling would ruin the school. Because then the school would have to educate kids coming in via the lottery at any grade, and apparently BASIS is incapable of educating a child who has not been educated "the BASIS way" since 5th grade.

Compare to Latin, which is also a sought after lottery get for MS and HS, but does backfill (and has lower attrition). Latin still maintains high standards and high achieving students at Latin receive challenging instruction and opportunities via the IB program. But it does this while also operating like a non-application public school, which is what it is, and adding students in later grades when it has room. DCI also does this.

BASIS wants to pick their students without actually being an application school (because DC doesn't permit charters to be application schools). So it does an end-run around this by being a lottery school, having internal policies that heavily discourage any kid who isn't working above grade level in math from continuing, and then refusing to backfill in upper grades. They are cheating the system. That's what people don't like.

Every single other BASIS school backfills. The only thing kids need to do is pass (not a high pass, mind you. Like a 60%) the math and english comp for the previous grade. This holds entering BASIS students to the exact same standard as any current ones. If a kid lotteries in for 8th grade but doesn't pass the 7th grade comps, they still have a spot at BASIS. They will just have to enroll in 7th grade rather than 8th. There's even wiggle room for parents to push their kids into the higher grade. The main goal for all of the other BASIS schools is not to set kids up for failure. The schools offer a lot of free tutoring and student hours, so there is a lot of time for struggling kids to get help. But, if a kid lacks the basic skills for a grade level, then the extra tutoring is not likely to be enough.

DC laws don't let BASIS DC administer any kind of test for kids entering in the upper grades. That's why they don't backfill.

Right, everyone knows why. They don't want to do the work of dealing with kids who are below grade level, and they don't want it to bring down their test scores. Other schools are willing to do the work and take the hit. BASIS is not. We agree on this.

What irritates people about BASIS is the constant claims of "success" and being "#1" when the comparison to other schools is not apples-to-apples. It's disingenuous and therefore annoying.

+1. It’s this. Sure the other schools would have much higher test scores if they did not pass all the kids who were below grade level or counseled them out.

Basis also has a very high attrition rate from the middle to high school. Many of these kids are actually the higher performing ones. Yes, they are going to other schools, and the reason why is because they are not happy at Basis and want a more well rounded and fulfilling school experience.

Wrong.

Plenty of MS BASIS students can't handle the rigor and drop out. However, plenty of other BASIS students just move to other options. Some Embassy kids go overseas when their parents finish their tour of duty in the US, some parents divorce and the kid goes to school in the burbs (for example, TJ), and some kids go to Walls or private to try something different. Many of these latter kids are high-scoring. BASIS loses them, just like they lose kids that can't handle the curriculum. BASIS doesn't backfill, so generally when kids leave for any reason, they are not replaced. If as BASIS kids decides to go to Walls or a Big 3 private, that hardly means that they were "not happy" and unfulfilled. How do you think that were accepted to those other schools?

Some high-scoring Deal kids choose Walls or private (if they get in) over J-R. But does anyone here bash J-R because some kids opt for Walls?

The fact is that BASIS is ranked the best charter school in DC, the best public middle school in DC, and the best non-selective public high school.

The fact is that, unlike Walls and Banneker, BASIS does not cherry pick it students but rather every student at BASIS was admitted through a 100% lottery.

The fact is that no other middle school or high school has the test scores of BASIS because it offers the most advanced and rigorous curriculum of any public school in DC and, unlike other schools, doesn't socially promote.

The fact that is that a very high percentage of BASIS kids get into and go to T20 colleges. Obviously, those kids did fine in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BASIS is almost exactly the same per-grade enrollment as Eliot-Hine (averaging middle school grades together). BASIS booster, why don't you explain why Eliot-Hine is willing and able to serve all comers and still offer Algebra I while BASIS is not. Because it's clearly not a matter of size.

Sousa middle school offers Geometry btw. So does Wells. So does Oyster-Adams. So does Latin. So please fill us in on why this is impossible for BASIS while also serving below-grade kids.

Huh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

The refusal to backfill is 100% the reason people get annoyed with BASIS. If the school backfilled, then I don't think people would criticize it at all. Of course, BASIS and its supporters will explain that backfilling would ruin the school. Because then the school would have to educate kids coming in via the lottery at any grade, and apparently BASIS is incapable of educating a child who has not been educated "the BASIS way" since 5th grade.

Compare to Latin, which is also a sought after lottery get for MS and HS, but does backfill (and has lower attrition). Latin still maintains high standards and high achieving students at Latin receive challenging instruction and opportunities via the IB program. But it does this while also operating like a non-application public school, which is what it is, and adding students in later grades when it has room. DCI also does this.

BASIS wants to pick their students without actually being an application school (because DC doesn't permit charters to be application schools). So it does an end-run around this by being a lottery school, having internal policies that heavily discourage any kid who isn't working above grade level in math from continuing, and then refusing to backfill in upper grades. They are cheating the system. That's what people don't like.

Every single other BASIS school backfills. The only thing kids need to do is pass (not a high pass, mind you. Like a 60%) the math and english comp for the previous grade. This holds entering BASIS students to the exact same standard as any current ones. If a kid lotteries in for 8th grade but doesn't pass the 7th grade comps, they still have a spot at BASIS. They will just have to enroll in 7th grade rather than 8th. There's even wiggle room for parents to push their kids into the higher grade. The main goal for all of the other BASIS schools is not to set kids up for failure. The schools offer a lot of free tutoring and student hours, so there is a lot of time for struggling kids to get help. But, if a kid lacks the basic skills for a grade level, then the extra tutoring is not likely to be enough.

DC laws don't let BASIS DC administer any kind of test for kids entering in the upper grades. That's why they don't backfill.

Right, everyone knows why. They don't want to do the work of dealing with kids who are below grade level, and they don't want it to bring down their test scores. Other schools are willing to do the work and take the hit. BASIS is not. We agree on this.

What irritates people about BASIS is the constant claims of "success" and being "#1" when the comparison to other schools is not apples-to-apples. It's disingenuous and therefore annoying.

+1. It’s this. Sure the other schools would have much higher test scores if they did not pass all the kids who were below grade level or counseled them out.

Basis also has a very high attrition rate from the middle to high school. Many of these kids are actually the higher performing ones. Yes, they are going to other schools, and the reason why is because they are not happy at Basis and want a more well rounded and fulfilling school experience.

Wrong.

Plenty of MS BASIS students can't handle the rigor and drop out. However, plenty of other BASIS students just move to other options. Some Embassy kids go overseas when their parents finish their tour of duty in the US, some parents divorce and the kid goes to school in the burbs (for example, TJ), and some kids go to Walls or private to try something different. Many of these latter kids are high-scoring. BASIS loses them, just like they lose kids that can't handle the curriculum. BASIS doesn't backfill, so generally when kids leave for any reason, they are not replaced. If as BASIS kids decides to go to Walls or a Big 3 private, that hardly means that they were "not happy" and unfulfilled. How do you think that were accepted to those other schools?

Some high-scoring Deal kids choose Walls or private (if they get in) over J-R. But does anyone here bash J-R because some kids opt for Walls?

The fact is that BASIS is ranked the best charter school in DC, the best public middle school in DC, and the best non-selective public high school.

The fact is that, unlike Walls and Banneker, BASIS does not cherry pick it students but rather every student at BASIS was admitted through a 100% lottery.

The fact is that no other middle school or high school has the test scores of BASIS because it offers the most advanced and rigorous curriculum of any public school in DC and, unlike other schools, doesn't socially promote.

The fact that is that a very high percentage of BASIS kids get into and go to T20 colleges. Obviously, those kids did fine in high school.

The fact is that this is exactly the kind of disingenuous data manipulation that makes people annoyed at BASIS boosters.

[Anonymous]

The fact is BASIS doesn’t have to backfill. BASIS doesn’t take new students mid-year. BASIS can just send kids back to their IB school when they fail to teach them.

What’s the situation at BASIS on 504s/IEPs? Still successfully avoiding supporting these kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

The refusal to backfill is 100% the reason people get annoyed with BASIS. If the school backfilled, then I don't think people would criticize it at all. Of course, BASIS and its supporters will explain that backfilling would ruin the school. Because then the school would have to educate kids coming in via the lottery at any grade, and apparently BASIS is incapable of educating a child who has not been educated "the BASIS way" since 5th grade.

Compare to Latin, which is also a sought after lottery get for MS and HS, but does backfill (and has lower attrition). Latin still maintains high standards and high achieving students at Latin receive challenging instruction and opportunities via the IB program. But it does this while also operating like a non-application public school, which is what it is, and adding students in later grades when it has room. DCI also does this.

BASIS wants to pick their students without actually being an application school (because DC doesn't permit charters to be application schools). So it does an end-run around this by being a lottery school, having internal policies that heavily discourage any kid who isn't working above grade level in math from continuing, and then refusing to backfill in upper grades. They are cheating the system. That's what people don't like.

Every single other BASIS school backfills. The only thing kids need to do is pass (not a high pass, mind you. Like a 60%) the math and english comp for the previous grade. This holds entering BASIS students to the exact same standard as any current ones. If a kid lotteries in for 8th grade but doesn't pass the 7th grade comps, they still have a spot at BASIS. They will just have to enroll in 7th grade rather than 8th. There's even wiggle room for parents to push their kids into the higher grade. The main goal for all of the other BASIS schools is not to set kids up for failure. The schools offer a lot of free tutoring and student hours, so there is a lot of time for struggling kids to get help. But, if a kid lacks the basic skills for a grade level, then the extra tutoring is not likely to be enough.

DC laws don't let BASIS DC administer any kind of test for kids entering in the upper grades. That's why they don't backfill.

Right, everyone knows why. They don't want to do the work of dealing with kids who are below grade level, and they don't want it to bring down their test scores. Other schools are willing to do the work and take the hit. BASIS is not. We agree on this.

What irritates people about BASIS is the constant claims of "success" and being "#1" when the comparison to other schools is not apples-to-apples. It's disingenuous and therefore annoying.

+1. It’s this. Sure the other schools would have much higher test scores if they did not pass all the kids who were below grade level or counseled them out.

Basis also has a very high attrition rate from the middle to high school. Many of these kids are actually the higher performing ones. Yes, they are going to other schools, and the reason why is because they are not happy at Basis and want a more well rounded and fulfilling school experience.

Wrong.

Plenty of MS BASIS students can't handle the rigor and drop out. However, plenty of other BASIS students just move to other options. Some Embassy kids go overseas when their parents finish their tour of duty in the US, some parents divorce and the kid goes to school in the burbs (for example, TJ), and some kids go to Walls or private to try something different. Many of these latter kids are high-scoring. BASIS loses them, just like they lose kids that can't handle the curriculum. BASIS doesn't backfill, so generally when kids leave for any reason, they are not replaced. If as BASIS kids decides to go to Walls or a Big 3 private, that hardly means that they were "not happy" and unfulfilled. How do you think that were accepted to those other schools?

Some high-scoring Deal kids choose Walls or private (if they get in) over J-R. But does anyone here bash J-R because some kids opt for Walls?

The fact is that BASIS is ranked the best charter school in DC, the best public middle school in DC, and the best non-selective public high school.

The fact is that, unlike Walls and Banneker, BASIS does not cherry pick it students but rather every student at BASIS was admitted through a 100% lottery.

The fact is that no other middle school or high school has the test scores of BASIS because it offers the most advanced and rigorous curriculum of any public school in DC and, unlike other schools, doesn't socially promote.

The fact that is that a very high percentage of BASIS kids get into and go to T20 colleges. Obviously, those kids did fine in high school.

I'm a Basis parent who would recommend it to most families, but "The fact is that no other middle school or high school has the test scores of BASIS because it offers the most advanced and rigorous curriculum of any public school in DC and, unlike other schools, doesn't socially promote." is, at best, hugely oversimplifying things. The test scores are, in my opinion, primarily reflective of the self-selection. Basis attracts and retains kids who can meet the academic demands. (There are plenty of kids who can meet those demands and choose to leave too.) But that allows them to teach more. That is, the academic success is in large part a function of attracting kids who are willing and able to do the work, which in turn allows those kids to learn more than they would in a less rigorous environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

The refusal to backfill is 100% the reason people get annoyed with BASIS. If the school backfilled, then I don't think people would criticize it at all. Of course, BASIS and its supporters will explain that backfilling would ruin the school. Because then the school would have to educate kids coming in via the lottery at any grade, and apparently BASIS is incapable of educating a child who has not been educated "the BASIS way" since 5th grade.

Compare to Latin, which is also a sought after lottery get for MS and HS, but does backfill (and has lower attrition). Latin still maintains high standards and high achieving students at Latin receive challenging instruction and opportunities via the IB program. But it does this while also operating like a non-application public school, which is what it is, and adding students in later grades when it has room. DCI also does this.

BASIS wants to pick their students without actually being an application school (because DC doesn't permit charters to be application schools). So it does an end-run around this by being a lottery school, having internal policies that heavily discourage any kid who isn't working above grade level in math from continuing, and then refusing to backfill in upper grades. They are cheating the system. That's what people don't like.

Every single other BASIS school backfills. The only thing kids need to do is pass (not a high pass, mind you. Like a 60%) the math and english comp for the previous grade. This holds entering BASIS students to the exact same standard as any current ones. If a kid lotteries in for 8th grade but doesn't pass the 7th grade comps, they still have a spot at BASIS. They will just have to enroll in 7th grade rather than 8th. There's even wiggle room for parents to push their kids into the higher grade. The main goal for all of the other BASIS schools is not to set kids up for failure. The schools offer a lot of free tutoring and student hours, so there is a lot of time for struggling kids to get help. But, if a kid lacks the basic skills for a grade level, then the extra tutoring is not likely to be enough.

DC laws don't let BASIS DC administer any kind of test for kids entering in the upper grades. That's why they don't backfill.

Right, everyone knows why. They don't want to do the work of dealing with kids who are below grade level, and they don't want it to bring down their test scores. Other schools are willing to do the work and take the hit. BASIS is not. We agree on this.

What irritates people about BASIS is the constant claims of "success" and being "#1" when the comparison to other schools is not apples-to-apples. It's disingenuous and therefore annoying.

But it isn't about not wanting to do the work. Basis is a small school, and they can't offer tons of different levels. Aside from electives, all 7th graders take the same courses. This is true at almost any very small private or charter. At Basis, 7th grade math is Algebra I. The Basis teachers and student tutors will work their tails off to help kids pass algebra. But, if a kid enters who is woefully unprepared for Algebra, there's only so much the teachers can do. They can support kids in the existing classes, but they don't have the resources to add a bunch of new class levels for kids who are unready for the ones offered at basis.

Stuart-Hobson is very close to the same size as BASIS middle school and they manage to do it.

You can't keep out/push out all the below-grade-level kids and then claim you can't serve them because, aw shucks, the school is just too small. That's WHY it's small!

Charter schools by their nature are going to be niche. Do you think a Spanish immersion charter school needs to accommodate kids who don't want to learn Spanish? Do you think a Spanish immersion charter ought to place 7th graders in Spanish immersion who have never taken Spanish before alongside kids who've been there since K? Do you think that would work out well for anyone? If your answer is "no," then why do you think an advanced academics charter needs to accommodate kids who do not want advanced academics classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

The refusal to backfill is 100% the reason people get annoyed with BASIS. If the school backfilled, then I don't think people would criticize it at all. Of course, BASIS and its supporters will explain that backfilling would ruin the school. Because then the school would have to educate kids coming in via the lottery at any grade, and apparently BASIS is incapable of educating a child who has not been educated "the BASIS way" since 5th grade.

Compare to Latin, which is also a sought after lottery get for MS and HS, but does backfill (and has lower attrition). Latin still maintains high standards and high achieving students at Latin receive challenging instruction and opportunities via the IB program. But it does this while also operating like a non-application public school, which is what it is, and adding students in later grades when it has room. DCI also does this.

BASIS wants to pick their students without actually being an application school (because DC doesn't permit charters to be application schools). So it does an end-run around this by being a lottery school, having internal policies that heavily discourage any kid who isn't working above grade level in math from continuing, and then refusing to backfill in upper grades. They are cheating the system. That's what people don't like.

Every single other BASIS school backfills. The only thing kids need to do is pass (not a high pass, mind you. Like a 60%) the math and english comp for the previous grade. This holds entering BASIS students to the exact same standard as any current ones. If a kid lotteries in for 8th grade but doesn't pass the 7th grade comps, they still have a spot at BASIS. They will just have to enroll in 7th grade rather than 8th. There's even wiggle room for parents to push their kids into the higher grade. The main goal for all of the other BASIS schools is not to set kids up for failure. The schools offer a lot of free tutoring and student hours, so there is a lot of time for struggling kids to get help. But, if a kid lacks the basic skills for a grade level, then the extra tutoring is not likely to be enough.

DC laws don't let BASIS DC administer any kind of test for kids entering in the upper grades. That's why they don't backfill.

Right, everyone knows why. They don't want to do the work of dealing with kids who are below grade level, and they don't want it to bring down their test scores. Other schools are willing to do the work and take the hit. BASIS is not. We agree on this.

What irritates people about BASIS is the constant claims of "success" and being "#1" when the comparison to other schools is not apples-to-apples. It's disingenuous and therefore annoying.

But it isn't about not wanting to do the work. Basis is a small school, and they can't offer tons of different levels. Aside from electives, all 7th graders take the same courses. This is true at almost any very small private or charter. At Basis, 7th grade math is Algebra I. The Basis teachers and student tutors will work their tails off to help kids pass algebra. But, if a kid enters who is woefully unprepared for Algebra, there's only so much the teachers can do. They can support kids in the existing classes, but they don't have the resources to add a bunch of new class levels for kids who are unready for the ones offered at basis.

Stuart-Hobson is very close to the same size as BASIS middle school and they manage to do it.

You can't keep out/push out all the below-grade-level kids and then claim you can't serve them because, aw shucks, the school is just too small. That's WHY it's small!

Charter schools by their nature are going to be niche. Do you think a Spanish immersion charter school needs to accommodate kids who don't want to learn Spanish? Do you think a Spanish immersion charter ought to place 7th graders in Spanish immersion who have never taken Spanish before alongside kids who've been there since K? Do you think that would work out well for anyone? If your answer is "no," then why do you think an advanced academics charter needs to accommodate kids who do not want advanced academics classes?

Because it's the law. And because you can't not accommodate them and then claim your school is lottery admissions and is fairly meaningfully rated #1. That's my real objection here-- constant, repetitive, tendentious claims about BASIS that are carefully phrased to be technically true but are nonetheless intended to mislead.

But please do explain why BASIS is too small to offer math differentiation but Stuart-Hobson and Eliot-Hine are not.

[Anonymous]

My child was at a spanish immersion school in elementary. It was not for everyone. We got a lot out of it, but it missed a lot also. Mostly, it missed academic rigor, which my child craved. I spent the elementary years supplementing the education myself as the school time was mostly used for disciplinary actions. There was absolutely no accountability and very little learning outside of the language.

I researched a lot before deciding on Basis. I knew that the decision might ostracize us socially to a degree. But it kept seeming like it was right for my child.

The first year was rough. We cut out everything. I'm not sure how the rest of the experience would have gone if we didn't fully dedicate ourselves to the executive functioning lessons of the 5th grade. They teach accountability fast. Some parents try to protect their kids from those lessons.
Those kids will obviously not do well there.

It isn't a perfect school, as everyone knows. But sending my child there was one of the absolute best decisions of my life. The amount of self-sufficiency and comradery that they have learned is astounding to me. My child - and my childs' friends - are prepared for college and for life. We can debate the pros and cons, but I will always think it was an incredible opportunity.

They don't spend more per kid than other schools, they just put more responsibility on the kids themselves to learn. For me that was an absolute plus that is missing in so many other places. My child is leaving completely self-sufficient, understanding that you are responsible for your own learning. I'm very thankful that we had that opportunity, and I hope the culture changes so that others can again value those goals and include them at every level of learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child was at a spanish immersion school in elementary. It was not for everyone. We got a lot out of it, but it missed a lot also. Mostly, it missed academic rigor, which my child craved. I spent the elementary years supplementing the education myself as the school time was mostly used for disciplinary actions. There was absolutely no accountability and very little learning outside of the language.

I researched a lot before deciding on Basis. I knew that the decision might ostracize us socially to a degree. But it kept seeming like it was right for my child.

The first year was rough. We cut out everything. I'm not sure how the rest of the experience would have gone if we didn't fully dedicate ourselves to the executive functioning lessons of the 5th grade. They teach accountability fast. Some parents try to protect their kids from those lessons.
Those kids will obviously not do well there.

It isn't a perfect school, as everyone knows. But sending my child there was one of the absolute best decisions of my life. The amount of self-sufficiency and comradery that they have learned is astounding to me. My child - and my childs' friends - are prepared for college and for life. We can debate the pros and cons, but I will always think it was an incredible opportunity.

They don't spend more per kid than other schools, they just put more responsibility on the kids themselves to learn. For me that was an absolute plus that is missing in so many other places. My child is leaving completely self-sufficient, understanding that you are responsible for your own learning. I'm very thankful that we had that opportunity, and I hope the culture changes so that others can again value those goals and include them at every level of learning.

They actually spend less per kid, because they receive less per kid, because the city funding formula provides more for kids with special needs and BASIS doesn't have a very high percentage of such kids.

I never understand why "I like BASIS for my specific kid" is relevant as a rebuttal to the points made in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Gosh, why doesn’t BASIS serve many kids with 504s/IEPs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

The refusal to backfill is 100% the reason people get annoyed with BASIS. If the school backfilled, then I don't think people would criticize it at all. Of course, BASIS and its supporters will explain that backfilling would ruin the school. Because then the school would have to educate kids coming in via the lottery at any grade, and apparently BASIS is incapable of educating a child who has not been educated "the BASIS way" since 5th grade.

Compare to Latin, which is also a sought after lottery get for MS and HS, but does backfill (and has lower attrition). Latin still maintains high standards and high achieving students at Latin receive challenging instruction and opportunities via the IB program. But it does this while also operating like a non-application public school, which is what it is, and adding students in later grades when it has room. DCI also does this.

BASIS wants to pick their students without actually being an application school (because DC doesn't permit charters to be application schools). So it does an end-run around this by being a lottery school, having internal policies that heavily discourage any kid who isn't working above grade level in math from continuing, and then refusing to backfill in upper grades. They are cheating the system. That's what people don't like.

Every single other BASIS school backfills. The only thing kids need to do is pass (not a high pass, mind you. Like a 60%) the math and english comp for the previous grade. This holds entering BASIS students to the exact same standard as any current ones. If a kid lotteries in for 8th grade but doesn't pass the 7th grade comps, they still have a spot at BASIS. They will just have to enroll in 7th grade rather than 8th. There's even wiggle room for parents to push their kids into the higher grade. The main goal for all of the other BASIS schools is not to set kids up for failure. The schools offer a lot of free tutoring and student hours, so there is a lot of time for struggling kids to get help. But, if a kid lacks the basic skills for a grade level, then the extra tutoring is not likely to be enough.

DC laws don't let BASIS DC administer any kind of test for kids entering in the upper grades. That's why they don't backfill.

Right, everyone knows why. They don't want to do the work of dealing with kids who are below grade level, and they don't want it to bring down their test scores. Other schools are willing to do the work and take the hit. BASIS is not. We agree on this.

What irritates people about BASIS is the constant claims of "success" and being "#1" when the comparison to other schools is not apples-to-apples. It's disingenuous and therefore annoying.

+1. It’s this. Sure the other schools would have much higher test scores if they did not pass all the kids who were below grade level or counseled them out.

Basis also has a very high attrition rate from the middle to high school. Many of these kids are actually the higher performing ones. Yes, they are going to other schools, and the reason why is because they are not happy at Basis and want a more well rounded and fulfilling school experience.

Wrong.

Plenty of MS BASIS students can't handle the rigor and drop out. However, plenty of other BASIS students just move to other options. Some Embassy kids go overseas when their parents finish their tour of duty in the US, some parents divorce and the kid goes to school in the burbs (for example, TJ), and some kids go to Walls or private to try something different. Many of these latter kids are high-scoring. BASIS loses them, just like they lose kids that can't handle the curriculum. BASIS doesn't backfill, so generally when kids leave for any reason, they are not replaced. If as BASIS kids decides to go to Walls or a Big 3 private, that hardly means that they were "not happy" and unfulfilled. How do you think that were accepted to those other schools?

Some high-scoring Deal kids choose Walls or private (if they get in) over J-R. But does anyone here bash J-R because some kids opt for Walls?

The fact is that BASIS is ranked the best charter school in DC, the best public middle school in DC, and the best non-selective public high school.

The fact is that, unlike Walls and Banneker, BASIS does not cherry pick it students but rather every student at BASIS was admitted through a 100% lottery.

The fact is that no other middle school or high school has the test scores of BASIS because it offers the most advanced and rigorous curriculum of any public school in DC and, unlike other schools, doesn't socially promote.

The fact that is that a very high percentage of BASIS kids get into and go to T20 colleges. Obviously, those kids did fine in high school.

The fact is that this is exactly the kind of disingenuous data manipulation that makes people annoyed at BASIS boosters.

+1. Also yes the kids that leave were unhappy or unfulfilled. The school was not meeting some of their needs. If they were happy, they would not be leaving. It astounds me that Basis boosters can’t just acknowledge simple facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not that anyone cares, but one thing I haven’t seen discussed when people cite the high BASIS attrition rate as conclusive proof that the school is terrible is how much of that is mainly a function of their no-backfill policy. Even setting aside that any given school will be a poor fit for some kids who will move to other schools in DC, the rates at which people leave DC altogether each year are high enough that any school that does not backfill would expect to have their student population cut in half over 8 years. The current senior class numbers reflect both normal attrition and pandemic moves, which were significant. You don’t see similar attrition rates at other schools because the students leaving are obscured in the enrollment numbers by the new ones that move in. With all of the federal layoffs this year, I suspect the numbers of kids departing will be even higher between this school year and next. And I have no doubt the DCUM crowd will point to that as evidence that parents are waking up to how bad the school is. Yes, there are kids who fail and leave after not being promoted. Yes there are kids who leave for other schools for all sorts of reasons, including valid criticisms of the school and BASIS model, but unless you are comparing schools based on actual rates of students leaving rather than net enrollment numbers, the comparison tells you nothing.

The refusal to backfill is 100% the reason people get annoyed with BASIS. If the school backfilled, then I don't think people would criticize it at all. Of course, BASIS and its supporters will explain that backfilling would ruin the school. Because then the school would have to educate kids coming in via the lottery at any grade, and apparently BASIS is incapable of educating a child who has not been educated "the BASIS way" since 5th grade.

Compare to Latin, which is also a sought after lottery get for MS and HS, but does backfill (and has lower attrition). Latin still maintains high standards and high achieving students at Latin receive challenging instruction and opportunities via the IB program. But it does this while also operating like a non-application public school, which is what it is, and adding students in later grades when it has room. DCI also does this.

BASIS wants to pick their students without actually being an application school (because DC doesn't permit charters to be application schools). So it does an end-run around this by being a lottery school, having internal policies that heavily discourage any kid who isn't working above grade level in math from continuing, and then refusing to backfill in upper grades. They are cheating the system. That's what people don't like.

Every single other BASIS school backfills. The only thing kids need to do is pass (not a high pass, mind you. Like a 60%) the math and english comp for the previous grade. This holds entering BASIS students to the exact same standard as any current ones. If a kid lotteries in for 8th grade but doesn't pass the 7th grade comps, they still have a spot at BASIS. They will just have to enroll in 7th grade rather than 8th. There's even wiggle room for parents to push their kids into the higher grade. The main goal for all of the other BASIS schools is not to set kids up for failure. The schools offer a lot of free tutoring and student hours, so there is a lot of time for struggling kids to get help. But, if a kid lacks the basic skills for a grade level, then the extra tutoring is not likely to be enough.

DC laws don't let BASIS DC administer any kind of test for kids entering in the upper grades. That's why they don't backfill.

Right, everyone knows why. They don't want to do the work of dealing with kids who are below grade level, and they don't want it to bring down their test scores. Other schools are willing to do the work and take the hit. BASIS is not. We agree on this.

What irritates people about BASIS is the constant claims of "success" and being "#1" when the comparison to other schools is not apples-to-apples. It's disingenuous and therefore annoying.

+1. It’s this. Sure the other schools would have much higher test scores if they did not pass all the kids who were below grade level or counseled them out.

Basis also has a very high attrition rate from the middle to high school. Many of these kids are actually the higher performing ones. Yes, they are going to other schools, and the reason why is because they are not happy at Basis and want a more well rounded and fulfilling school experience.

Wrong.

Plenty of MS BASIS students can't handle the rigor and drop out. However, plenty of other BASIS students just move to other options. Some Embassy kids go overseas when their parents finish their tour of duty in the US, some parents divorce and the kid goes to school in the burbs (for example, TJ), and some kids go to Walls or private to try something different. Many of these latter kids are high-scoring. BASIS loses them, just like they lose kids that can't handle the curriculum. BASIS doesn't backfill, so generally when kids leave for any reason, they are not replaced. If as BASIS kids decides to go to Walls or a Big 3 private, that hardly means that they were "not happy" and unfulfilled. How do you think that were accepted to those other schools?

Some high-scoring Deal kids choose Walls or private (if they get in) over J-R. But does anyone here bash J-R because some kids opt for Walls?

The fact is that BASIS is ranked the best charter school in DC, the best public middle school in DC, and the best non-selective public high school.

The fact is that, unlike Walls and Banneker, BASIS does not cherry pick it students but rather every student at BASIS was admitted through a 100% lottery.

The fact is that no other middle school or high school has the test scores of BASIS because it offers the most advanced and rigorous curriculum of any public school in DC and, unlike other schools, doesn't socially promote.

The fact that is that a very high percentage of BASIS kids get into and go to T20 colleges. Obviously, those kids did fine in high school.

The fact is that this is exactly the kind of disingenuous data manipulation that makes people annoyed at BASIS boosters.

+1. Also yes the kids that leave were unhappy or unfulfilled. The school was not meeting some of their needs. If they were happy, they would not be leaving. It astounds me that Basis boosters can’t just acknowledge simple facts.

NP. Wouldn't that be true for every other school with attrition, though? Couldn't you say that every kid who leaves their school does so because the school "isn't meeting their needs" and because they're unhappy? And if that's the case, then how can that be an indictment of Basis?

IME, attrition is much more nuanced than you and some of the other posters are claiming. Not all families are the same, and kids within the same family aren't the same. Familes' and kids' needs change over time. My kids attended an elementary charter school where students left at all grade levels, but especially in 3rd and 4th grade. Many left for private school, others enrolled at different public schools. I'm sure some left because they were unhappy, others probably left because the school wasn't meeting their needs in some way (I know this was true for a few families with kids who had IEPs and 504s), but most of the families left because they felt more strongly about their kids attending a different school for various reasons--better fit, better academics, better commute, whatever. Some loved the elementary school but wanted to position their kids on a different path for middle or high school. Some families loved the school community but their child needed something more than the school could provide in terms of learning. To say that every student left the school because they were unhappy simply isn't accurate.

Grind your axe against Basis if that's what this is really about, but it's ridiculous to argue as if you know why every student happens to leave Basis while ignoring the myriad of reasons why kids in other schools throughout the city leave theirs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They actually spend less per kid, because they receive less per kid, because the city funding formula provides more for kids with special needs and BASIS doesn't have a very high percentage of such kids.

I never understand why "I like BASIS for my specific kid" is relevant as a rebuttal to the points made in this thread.

It wasnt meant as a rebuttal. I don't actually care one bit about who is denigrating or boosting the school. But I know that I found this to be a great resource for my own research on the school (not my only, of course), so I think it is important to share my experience over the past 7 years at the school. Everyone can take that with whatever grain of salt that they want. I don't see the point in arguing, but I think self-selection is important for Basis, so I share.

[Anonymous]

The beautiful thing about charter schools and having school choice is that no one is forcing anyone to attend Basis. If you don't want what Basis is offering or feel like the school wouldn't be a good fit, then you can opt to attend a different school. People who want Basis can try to lottery in. Those who don't can attend other schools. Everyone wins!