Serious question for MAGA - how do you not see the rise of authoritarian oligarchy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Democracy combined with an educated electorate would be death for the right. They live on an alternate set of facts they had to generate after they realized reality was not their friend. Authoritarianism and ignorance are their best chance for advancing their agenda. The goal is within their grasp now.

We have a Democracy set up to withstand a whole lot of awfulness that can occur with the combination of low IQ voters and crooked politicians thanks to the brilliance of our founding fathers. What our founding fathers couldn't prevent is a two-party political system that would evolve into two toxic money controlled political parties that would eventually leave the American public up poop's creek.

GW, in his farewell speech, was brilliant enough to forecast this one future problem that our government wasn't structured to deal with.

As an independent, I agree with this statement. I think we’re moving towards a one party system, the party that is currently in power. It’s almost inevitable, the US has been overconfidently moving towards this system for a while, aided by democrats patronizing arrogance, not just MAGA ignorance. It’s an American decision and indecision that has led us here. We wanted to know what it feels like to live under an authoritarian regime and we figured out a way to make it happen. Lessons are still not being learned from both sides. That’s why it’s inevitable. This has been my perception for at least the last 10 years

Who is we?

If you say the people, I find that hard to square. If Dems need to be more focused com the working class (because the GOP isn’t at all) why would the working class prefer to live under an authoritarian regime? It gives them less power, less freedom, and fewer protections.

If you say, the GOP and the Dem politicians, I’m still not convinced. While money has flowed into both parties, the Dems have made a lot of progress on human rights since I was a kid. I’m middle aged. I’m not buying this nihilistic viewpoint. I think people might extol the benefits of socialism, but authoritarianism…nah. Look at China and DPRK and Russia. The majority of Americans don’t want to live like that.

My father is dead now, but he told me once, sometime in the late 80s or early 90s, that the best form of government was a benevolent dictator. He couldn't stand the chaos that democracy fosters. He was a conservative. I think some people just want a strong leader in charge because they are generally just fearful. I hate to say that about my father. But I think it rings true for a good many people. And for many of them, what Trump is doing now feels protective.

Until it won't. But by then it will be too late.

Benevolent is key. I can’t think of a single benevolent dictator.

Yes, I think people are in favor, but it’s a small minority. I lived in China for many years. Yes, they can build an airport in the time it takes a democracy time to create a blueprint. All is well and good until it’s not. The Chinese live in fear of the government. It rules every aspect of their life. It also strips community. Look at the cultural revolution. They’ve never gotten past it. It’s not a kind place. I was glad to leave. That I could leave.

There’s a few in Africa

I think the sultan of Brunei is considered ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lived through the Obama and Biden presidencies. Of course I know authoritarians that destroy civil liberties exist! What a silly question.

like what kind of civil liberties..pray tell?

Extra-judicial drone killing of American citizens (by Obama) abroad. That truly was unprecedented.

Destruction of title IX by Biden.

Are you suggesting that Obama ordered the assassinations of American citizens? Please provide a link.

Obama never "assassinated" American citizens. Obama, unlike Trump and Biden, was deserving of the POTUS position.

You should look up Anwar Alwaki

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

If Biden is senile or of a diminishing mind, he shouldn’t have a security clearance. Especially since he was absent minded regarding some classified papers in his garage.

Security clearances for former presidents, are courtesies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

If Biden is senile or of a diminishing mind, he shouldn’t have a security clearance. Especially since he was absent minded regarding some classified papers in his garage.

Security clearances for former presidents, are courtesies.

If a “diminishing mind” is your bar, Trump should not have clearance either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait for it. People see. Mum is the word right now. Stand back and stand by, isnt that what he said years ago?

Exhibit 1
Silent Rioting
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP82fNCax/

This will be an easy one for MAGA defectors to jump in on.

Yes. This is a fantastic idea.

This is what I've done so far:

--No shopping at Zappos, Whole Foods, or Amazon (cancelled my Prime account and made them give my money back)
--No shopping at Target
--Really just no shopping unless groceries
--Ended Wash Po subscription
--Ended Netflix subscription (replaced with Kanopy for free from the library)


I love the idea to pull money out of banks. Maybe I'll move to a credit union.

What's amazing about this is that loads of people are, for example, cancelling Amazon Prime and realizing they bought a lot of junk over the years. They are enjoying keeping more of their money. This will probably create a long-term habit shift.

Trump doesn’t care about bezos. Republicans don’t care about bezos. He’s liberal. And he is competition for musk.

[Anonymous]

They don't mind. They feel independent thought is overrated.

They like being told what to do and admire the oligarchy for being rich and powerful (only men.)

And bonus, no men in dresses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

If Biden is senile or of a diminishing mind, he shouldn’t have a security clearance. Especially since he was absent minded regarding some classified papers in his garage.

Security clearances for former presidents, are courtesies.

Way more people than Biden. It is pure revenge.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trumps-canceling-scores-security-clearances-unprecedented-rcna189245

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lived through the Obama and Biden presidencies. Of course I know authoritarians that destroy civil liberties exist! What a silly question.

like what kind of civil liberties..pray tell?

Extra-judicial drone killing of American citizens (by Obama) abroad. That truly was unprecedented.

Destruction of title IX by Biden.

Are you suggesting that Obama ordered the assassinations of American citizens? Please provide a link.

Obama never "assassinated" American citizens. Obama, unlike Trump and Biden, was deserving of the POTUS position.

Anwar al-Awlaki, Samir Khan, Jude Kenan Mohammad, Abdulrahman al-Awlaki.

These are casualties of war; not "assassinations", you two-bit fool.

So that makes it ok?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lived through the Obama and Biden presidencies. Of course I know authoritarians that destroy civil liberties exist! What a silly question.

like what kind of civil liberties..pray tell?

Extra-judicial drone killing of American citizens (by Obama) abroad. That truly was unprecedented.

Destruction of title IX by Biden.

Are you suggesting that Obama ordered the assassinations of American citizens? Please provide a link.

Obama never "assassinated" American citizens. Obama, unlike Trump and Biden, was deserving of the POTUS position.

Anwar al-Awlaki, Samir Khan, Jude Kenan Mohammad, Abdulrahman al-Awlaki.

These are casualties of war; not "assassinations", you two-bit fool.

So that makes it ok?

If you hang out with terrorists, you run the risk of getting blown up just like if you hang out with Venezuelan gang members, you run the risk of being deported.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

If Biden is senile or of a diminishing mind, he shouldn’t have a security clearance. Especially since he was absent minded regarding some classified papers in his garage.

Security clearances for former presidents, are courtesies.

Way more people than Biden. It is pure revenge.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trumps-canceling-scores-security-clearances-unprecedented-rcna189245

It’s not revenge. It’s protection of the President’s agenda. Which, Trump is entitled to as POTUS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

If Biden is senile or of a diminishing mind, he shouldn’t have a security clearance. Especially since he was absent minded regarding some classified papers in his garage.

Security clearances for former presidents, are courtesies.

Way more people than Biden. It is pure revenge.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trumps-canceling-scores-security-clearances-unprecedented-rcna189245

It’s not revenge. It’s protection of the President’s agenda. Which, Trump is entitled to as POTUS.

Trump's only agenda is 1. revenge and 2. enriching himself. Neither are befitting a serious and decent POTUS.

Trump is an unfit, demented, deranged, narcissistic con man. He doesn't do anything to help America, just himself.

Find me a single example of another POTUS who revoked a security detail for another living ex-POTUS. Oh that's right, no one else does this batsh*t nonsense.

He is a plague.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

If Biden is senile or of a diminishing mind, he shouldn’t have a security clearance. Especially since he was absent minded regarding some classified papers in his garage.

Security clearances for former presidents, are courtesies.

Way more people than Biden. It is pure revenge.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trumps-canceling-scores-security-clearances-unprecedented-rcna189245

It’s not revenge. It’s protection of the President’s agenda. Which, Trump is entitled to as POTUS.

Trump's only agenda is 1. revenge and 2. enriching himself. Neither are befitting a serious and decent POTUS.

Trump is an unfit, demented, deranged, narcissistic con man. He doesn't do anything to help America, just himself.

Find me a single example of another POTUS who revoked a security detail for another living ex-POTUS. Oh that's right, no one else does this batsh*t nonsense.

He is a plague.

Joe Biden is an example of another president did such batpoop nonsense but then again we all already knew Trump and Biden were the worst two presidents in our history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Democracy combined with an educated electorate would be death for the right. They live on an alternate set of facts they had to generate after they realized reality was not their friend. Authoritarianism and ignorance are their best chance for advancing their agenda. The goal is within their grasp now.

We have a Democracy set up to withstand a whole lot of awfulness that can occur with the combination of low IQ voters and crooked politicians thanks to the brilliance of our founding fathers. What our founding fathers couldn't prevent is a two-party political system that would evolve into two toxic money controlled political parties that would eventually leave the American public up poop's creek.

GW, in his farewell speech, was brilliant enough to forecast this one future problem that our government wasn't structured to deal with.

As an independent, I agree with this statement. I think we’re moving towards a one party system, the party that is currently in power. It’s almost inevitable, the US has been overconfidently moving towards this system for a while, aided by democrats patronizing arrogance, not just MAGA ignorance. It’s an American decision and indecision that has led us here. We wanted to know what it feels like to live under an authoritarian regime and we figured out a way to make it happen. Lessons are still not being learned from both sides. That’s why it’s inevitable. This has been my perception for at least the last 10 years

Who is we?

If you say the people, I find that hard to square. If Dems need to be more focused com the working class (because the GOP isn’t at all) why would the working class prefer to live under an authoritarian regime? It gives them less power, less freedom, and fewer protections.

If you say, the GOP and the Dem politicians, I’m still not convinced. While money has flowed into both parties, the Dems have made a lot of progress on human rights since I was a kid. I’m middle aged. I’m not buying this nihilistic viewpoint. I think people might extol the benefits of socialism, but authoritarianism…nah. Look at China and DPRK and Russia. The majority of Americans don’t want to live like that.

My father is dead now, but he told me once, sometime in the late 80s or early 90s, that the best form of government was a benevolent dictator. He couldn't stand the chaos that democracy fosters. He was a conservative. I think some people just want a strong leader in charge because they are generally just fearful. I hate to say that about my father. But I think it rings true for a good many people. And for many of them, what Trump is doing now feels protective.

Until it won't. But by then it will be too late.

Benevolent is key. I can’t think of a single benevolent dictator.

Yes, I think people are in favor, but it’s a small minority. I lived in China for many years. Yes, they can build an airport in the time it takes a democracy time to create a blueprint. All is well and good until it’s not. The Chinese live in fear of the government. It rules every aspect of their life. It also strips community. Look at the cultural revolution. They’ve never gotten past it. It’s not a kind place. I was glad to leave. That I could leave.

At the scale of two billion people, I'm not even sure what "Democracy" would mean. I mean somewhere in those hundreds of millions of votes is my will.

I think this is where Republicans have a point eg it's a Republic not a Democracy. Local democracies are likely to be more responsive to people's needs. People generally like what their states do better than the federal government. The problem with the Democrat platform is it tends to operate like a top-down dictatorship as we have seen the feedback that the Politicians get is course at best and it seems they never even interpret the reasons they lose correctly. Like hey, "Maybe we shouldn't have doubled down on immigration after Trump. It really wasn't popular" You'll never hear that. You do hear alot of "You stupid ignorant racists."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

This is really good insight.

Unfortunately I think things are likely too far gone to go back, but hopefully we will limp along instead of turning full fascist. I do think we risk large-scale violence at some point.

I think there is serious risk of violence, and it will come from the horseshoe ends where the extremist left and right meet. I’m not actually sure which is scarier, the far left or the far right.

I really think the best hope for this country is a true labor party, but that is not the Democrats in their current form.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Maybe the DNC can back to open primaries and not coronating candidates like Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris.

Aren't you bothered by the constant use of the term democracy, when democrats are anything but?

You can just say women. Because that's part of the reality. America doesn't want highly qualified, intelligent policy wonks. Or at least it's not an advantage. There's a reason Biden was able to beat Trump.

But I do agree that the Democrats should stop trying to create the perfect candidate in a lab and let the chips fall where they may.

Can someone explain this BS about Democrats not having primaries? Incumbent Presidents are rarely primaried, and if so, it is a fatal sign of weakness. Nixon (1972), Reagan (1984), Bush (2004), and Trump (2020) had no primary challengers. Why should Biden have had a challenger in 2024? Yes he was a weak candidate, but the idea that Democrats don’t hold primaries is a bunch of garbage. Obama beat the field to win the nomination in 2008, and Biden did the same in 2020.

Yes, Obama beat the field in a fair and open primary in 2008 and that was the last fair and open Dem primary. The money took over prior to 2016 and the nominees were going to be HRC 2016 and Biden 2020 no matter what. If you aren't smart enough to figure this out, you shouldn't be on a political message board on a Saturday evening. Go do some drugs or other stuff you stupid people do on weekend nights.

Thanks for the insult smoothbrain.
How was Biden “preordained” in 2020? Warren and Buttigieg were early leaders in the polling, and Biden had to claw his way back. Clyburn’s endorsement was key but in the end he was nominated because primary voters thought he was the best choice. As for 2024 - again incumbent Presidents from either party don’t get primaried. Last serious challenger was Ted Kennedy against Carter in 1980. So it was very much an unusual situation. But you know all that.