Serious question for MAGA - how do you not see the rise of authoritarian oligarchy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Democracy combined with an educated electorate would be death for the right. They live on an alternate set of facts they had to generate after they realized reality was not their friend. Authoritarianism and ignorance are their best chance for advancing their agenda. The goal is within their grasp now.

We have a Democracy set up to withstand a whole lot of awfulness that can occur with the combination of low IQ voters and crooked politicians thanks to the brilliance of our founding fathers. What our founding fathers couldn't prevent is a two-party political system that would evolve into two toxic money controlled political parties that would eventually leave the American public up poop's creek.

GW, in his farewell speech, was brilliant enough to forecast this one future problem that our government wasn't structured to deal with.

As an independent, I agree with this statement. I think we’re moving towards a one party system, the party that is currently in power. It’s almost inevitable, the US has been overconfidently moving towards this system for a while, aided by democrats patronizing arrogance, not just MAGA ignorance. It’s an American decision and indecision that has led us here. We wanted to know what it feels like to live under an authoritarian regime and we figured out a way to make it happen. Lessons are still not being learned from both sides. That’s why it’s inevitable. This has been my perception for at least the last 10 years

Who is we?

If you say the people, I find that hard to square. If Dems need to be more focused com the working class (because the GOP isn’t at all) why would the working class prefer to live under an authoritarian regime? It gives them less power, less freedom, and fewer protections.

If you say, the GOP and the Dem politicians, I’m still not convinced. While money has flowed into both parties, the Dems have made a lot of progress on human rights since I was a kid. I’m middle aged. I’m not buying this nihilistic viewpoint. I think people might extol the benefits of socialism, but authoritarianism…nah. Look at China and DPRK and Russia. The majority of Americans don’t want to live like that.

My father is dead now, but he told me once, sometime in the late 80s or early 90s, that the best form of government was a benevolent dictator. He couldn't stand the chaos that democracy fosters. He was a conservative. I think some people just want a strong leader in charge because they are generally just fearful. I hate to say that about my father. But I think it rings true for a good many people. And for many of them, what Trump is doing now feels protective.

Until it won't. But by then it will be too late.

All the Dems have to do is have open and fair primary elections that allow for normal/average presidential candidates to emerge and we won't have to worry about the GOP's dysfunction producing awful and weak candidate that can beat us ever, ever again. Capeesh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Democracy combined with an educated electorate would be death for the right. They live on an alternate set of facts they had to generate after they realized reality was not their friend. Authoritarianism and ignorance are their best chance for advancing their agenda. The goal is within their grasp now.

We have a Democracy set up to withstand a whole lot of awfulness that can occur with the combination of low IQ voters and crooked politicians thanks to the brilliance of our founding fathers. What our founding fathers couldn't prevent is a two-party political system that would evolve into two toxic money controlled political parties that would eventually leave the American public up poop's creek.

GW, in his farewell speech, was brilliant enough to forecast this one future problem that our government wasn't structured to deal with.

As an independent, I agree with this statement. I think we’re moving towards a one party system, the party that is currently in power. It’s almost inevitable, the US has been overconfidently moving towards this system for a while, aided by democrats patronizing arrogance, not just MAGA ignorance. It’s an American decision and indecision that has led us here. We wanted to know what it feels like to live under an authoritarian regime and we figured out a way to make it happen. Lessons are still not being learned from both sides. That’s why it’s inevitable. This has been my perception for at least the last 10 years

Who is we?

If you say the people, I find that hard to square. If Dems need to be more focused com the working class (because the GOP isn’t at all) why would the working class prefer to live under an authoritarian regime? It gives them less power, less freedom, and fewer protections.

If you say, the GOP and the Dem politicians, I’m still not convinced. While money has flowed into both parties, the Dems have made a lot of progress on human rights since I was a kid. I’m middle aged. I’m not buying this nihilistic viewpoint. I think people might extol the benefits of socialism, but authoritarianism…nah. Look at China and DPRK and Russia. The majority of Americans don’t want to live like that.

My father is dead now, but he told me once, sometime in the late 80s or early 90s, that the best form of government was a benevolent dictator. He couldn't stand the chaos that democracy fosters. He was a conservative. I think some people just want a strong leader in charge because they are generally just fearful. I hate to say that about my father. But I think it rings true for a good many people. And for many of them, what Trump is doing now feels protective.

Until it won't. But by then it will be too late.

All the Dems have to do is have open and fair primary elections that allow for normal/average presidential candidates to emerge and we won't have to worry about the GOP's dysfunction producing awful and weak candidate that can beat us ever, ever again. Capeesh?

We should all lobby the DNC to hold one-day primaries with ranked choice voting. It’s despicable that people in DC and a few other states can’t vote for a primary candidate. Biden was a terrible choice, though I do think he was mostly successful. Ranked choice would also help us elect a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Democracy combined with an educated electorate would be death for the right. They live on an alternate set of facts they had to generate after they realized reality was not their friend. Authoritarianism and ignorance are their best chance for advancing their agenda. The goal is within their grasp now.

We have a Democracy set up to withstand a whole lot of awfulness that can occur with the combination of low IQ voters and crooked politicians thanks to the brilliance of our founding fathers. What our founding fathers couldn't prevent is a two-party political system that would evolve into two toxic money controlled political parties that would eventually leave the American public up poop's creek.

GW, in his farewell speech, was brilliant enough to forecast this one future problem that our government wasn't structured to deal with.

As an independent, I agree with this statement. I think we’re moving towards a one party system, the party that is currently in power. It’s almost inevitable, the US has been overconfidently moving towards this system for a while, aided by democrats patronizing arrogance, not just MAGA ignorance. It’s an American decision and indecision that has led us here. We wanted to know what it feels like to live under an authoritarian regime and we figured out a way to make it happen. Lessons are still not being learned from both sides. That’s why it’s inevitable. This has been my perception for at least the last 10 years

Who is we?

If you say the people, I find that hard to square. If Dems need to be more focused com the working class (because the GOP isn’t at all) why would the working class prefer to live under an authoritarian regime? It gives them less power, less freedom, and fewer protections.

If you say, the GOP and the Dem politicians, I’m still not convinced. While money has flowed into both parties, the Dems have made a lot of progress on human rights since I was a kid. I’m middle aged. I’m not buying this nihilistic viewpoint. I think people might extol the benefits of socialism, but authoritarianism…nah. Look at China and DPRK and Russia. The majority of Americans don’t want to live like that.

My father is dead now, but he told me once, sometime in the late 80s or early 90s, that the best form of government was a benevolent dictator. He couldn't stand the chaos that democracy fosters. He was a conservative. I think some people just want a strong leader in charge because they are generally just fearful. I hate to say that about my father. But I think it rings true for a good many people. And for many of them, what Trump is doing now feels protective.

Until it won't. But by then it will be too late.

Benevolent is key. I can’t think of a single benevolent dictator.

Yes, I think people are in favor, but it’s a small minority. I lived in China for many years. Yes, they can build an airport in the time it takes a democracy time to create a blueprint. All is well and good until it’s not. The Chinese live in fear of the government. It rules every aspect of their life. It also strips community. Look at the cultural revolution. They’ve never gotten past it. It’s not a kind place. I was glad to leave. That I could leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Democracy combined with an educated electorate would be death for the right. They live on an alternate set of facts they had to generate after they realized reality was not their friend. Authoritarianism and ignorance are their best chance for advancing their agenda. The goal is within their grasp now.

We have a Democracy set up to withstand a whole lot of awfulness that can occur with the combination of low IQ voters and crooked politicians thanks to the brilliance of our founding fathers. What our founding fathers couldn't prevent is a two-party political system that would evolve into two toxic money controlled political parties that would eventually leave the American public up poop's creek.

GW, in his farewell speech, was brilliant enough to forecast this one future problem that our government wasn't structured to deal with.

As an independent, I agree with this statement. I think we’re moving towards a one party system, the party that is currently in power. It’s almost inevitable, the US has been overconfidently moving towards this system for a while, aided by democrats patronizing arrogance, not just MAGA ignorance. It’s an American decision and indecision that has led us here. We wanted to know what it feels like to live under an authoritarian regime and we figured out a way to make it happen. Lessons are still not being learned from both sides. That’s why it’s inevitable. This has been my perception for at least the last 10 years

Who is we?

If you say the people, I find that hard to square. If Dems need to be more focused com the working class (because the GOP isn’t at all) why would the working class prefer to live under an authoritarian regime? It gives them less power, less freedom, and fewer protections.

If you say, the GOP and the Dem politicians, I’m still not convinced. While money has flowed into both parties, the Dems have made a lot of progress on human rights since I was a kid. I’m middle aged. I’m not buying this nihilistic viewpoint. I think people might extol the benefits of socialism, but authoritarianism…nah. Look at China and DPRK and Russia. The majority of Americans don’t want to live like that.

My father is dead now, but he told me once, sometime in the late 80s or early 90s, that the best form of government was a benevolent dictator. He couldn't stand the chaos that democracy fosters. He was a conservative. I think some people just want a strong leader in charge because they are generally just fearful. I hate to say that about my father. But I think it rings true for a good many people. And for many of them, what Trump is doing now feels protective.

Until it won't. But by then it will be too late.

All the Dems have to do is have open and fair primary elections that allow for normal/average presidential candidates to emerge and we won't have to worry about the GOP's dysfunction producing awful and weak candidate that can beat us ever, ever again. Capeesh?

We should all lobby the DNC to hold one-day primaries with ranked choice voting. It’s despicable that people in DC and a few other states can’t vote for a primary candidate. Biden was a terrible choice, though I do think he was mostly successful. Ranked choice would also help us elect a woman.

Agree 100% but RCV will never happen as long as our awful GOP and Dem lawmakers are calling the shots. They see RCV as a threat to their power. They care most about their POWER.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Maybe the DNC can back to open primaries and not coronating candidates like Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris.

Aren't you bothered by the constant use of the term democracy, when democrats are anything but?

You can just say women. Because that's part of the reality. America doesn't want highly qualified, intelligent policy wonks. Or at least it's not an advantage. There's a reason Biden was able to beat Trump.

But I do agree that the Democrats should stop trying to create the perfect candidate in a lab and let the chips fall where they may.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Democracy combined with an educated electorate would be death for the right. They live on an alternate set of facts they had to generate after they realized reality was not their friend. Authoritarianism and ignorance are their best chance for advancing their agenda. The goal is within their grasp now.

We have a Democracy set up to withstand a whole lot of awfulness that can occur with the combination of low IQ voters and crooked politicians thanks to the brilliance of our founding fathers. What our founding fathers couldn't prevent is a two-party political system that would evolve into two toxic money controlled political parties that would eventually leave the American public up poop's creek.

GW, in his farewell speech, was brilliant enough to forecast this one future problem that our government wasn't structured to deal with.

As an independent, I agree with this statement. I think we’re moving towards a one party system, the party that is currently in power. It’s almost inevitable, the US has been overconfidently moving towards this system for a while, aided by democrats patronizing arrogance, not just MAGA ignorance. It’s an American decision and indecision that has led us here. We wanted to know what it feels like to live under an authoritarian regime and we figured out a way to make it happen. Lessons are still not being learned from both sides. That’s why it’s inevitable. This has been my perception for at least the last 10 years

Who is we?

If you say the people, I find that hard to square. If Dems need to be more focused com the working class (because the GOP isn’t at all) why would the working class prefer to live under an authoritarian regime? It gives them less power, less freedom, and fewer protections.

If you say, the GOP and the Dem politicians, I’m still not convinced. While money has flowed into both parties, the Dems have made a lot of progress on human rights since I was a kid. I’m middle aged. I’m not buying this nihilistic viewpoint. I think people might extol the benefits of socialism, but authoritarianism…nah. Look at China and DPRK and Russia. The majority of Americans don’t want to live like that.

What Americans do want is quick fixes. Our immaturity got us here. Along with Fox News.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that they will not admit that they screwed up. We Dems are always willing to to admit when we have Fd up. Honest, not tribal.

lol.

Anyways, I think maga would prefer a republican authoritarian vs a liberal one because they do not get demonized by republicans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Maybe the DNC can back to open primaries and not coronating candidates like Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris.

Aren't you bothered by the constant use of the term democracy, when democrats are anything but?

You can just say women. Because that's part of the reality. America doesn't want highly qualified, intelligent policy wonks. Or at least it's not an advantage. There's a reason Biden was able to beat Trump.

But I do agree that the Democrats should stop trying to create the perfect candidate in a lab and let the chips fall where they may.

Can someone explain this BS about Democrats not having primaries? Incumbent Presidents are rarely primaried, and if so, it is a fatal sign of weakness. Nixon (1972), Reagan (1984), Bush (2004), and Trump (2020) had no primary challengers. Why should Biden have had a challenger in 2024? Yes he was a weak candidate, but the idea that Democrats don’t hold primaries is a bunch of garbage. Obama beat the field to win the nomination in 2008, and Biden did the same in 2020.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Maybe the DNC can back to open primaries and not coronating candidates like Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris.

Aren't you bothered by the constant use of the term democracy, when democrats are anything but?

You can just say women. Because that's part of the reality. America doesn't want highly qualified, intelligent policy wonks. Or at least it's not an advantage. There's a reason Biden was able to beat Trump.

But I do agree that the Democrats should stop trying to create the perfect candidate in a lab and let the chips fall where they may.

Biden beat Trump in 2020 because Trump was a very unpopular president with a 40% approval rating. Dems could have beaten Trump with Cosby, Epstein, Dahmer or Bundy as their nominee. They chose to do beat Trump with one of the few people on Earth capable of a complete collapse that would gift The White House back to Trump in 2024.

Harris never had a chance in 2024 thanks to Biden's antics and HRC lost in 2016 because of a very weak campaign effort combined with the disadvantage of being a member of the party that held power for the prior 8 years. Harris and HRC weren't great candidates in 2024 and 2016 due for the most part to circumstances beyond their control but they were miles better than the bumbling fumbling clown Biden.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Maybe the DNC can back to open primaries and not coronating candidates like Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris.

Aren't you bothered by the constant use of the term democracy, when democrats are anything but?

You can just say women. Because that's part of the reality. America doesn't want highly qualified, intelligent policy wonks. Or at least it's not an advantage. There's a reason Biden was able to beat Trump.

But I do agree that the Democrats should stop trying to create the perfect candidate in a lab and let the chips fall where they may.

Can someone explain this BS about Democrats not having primaries? Incumbent Presidents are rarely primaried, and if so, it is a fatal sign of weakness. Nixon (1972), Reagan (1984), Bush (2004), and Trump (2020) had no primary challengers. Why should Biden have had a challenger in 2024? Yes he was a weak candidate, but the idea that Democrats don’t hold primaries is a bunch of garbage. Obama beat the field to win the nomination in 2008, and Biden did the same in 2020.

Yes, Obama beat the field in a fair and open primary in 2008 and that was the last fair and open Dem primary. The money took over prior to 2016 and the nominees were going to be HRC 2016 and Biden 2020 no matter what. If you aren't smart enough to figure this out, you shouldn't be on a political message board on a Saturday evening. Go do some drugs or other stuff you stupid people do on weekend nights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Maybe the DNC can back to open primaries and not coronating candidates like Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris.

Aren't you bothered by the constant use of the term democracy, when democrats are anything but?

You can just say women. Because that's part of the reality. America doesn't want highly qualified, intelligent policy wonks. Or at least it's not an advantage. There's a reason Biden was able to beat Trump.

But I do agree that the Democrats should stop trying to create the perfect candidate in a lab and let the chips fall where they may.

Can someone explain this BS about Democrats not having primaries? Incumbent Presidents are rarely primaried, and if so, it is a fatal sign of weakness. Nixon (1972), Reagan (1984), Bush (2004), and Trump (2020) had no primary challengers. Why should Biden have had a challenger in 2024? Yes he was a weak candidate, but the idea that Democrats don’t hold primaries is a bunch of garbage. Obama beat the field to win the nomination in 2008, and Biden did the same in 2020.

PP here. And it's not entirely BS - in 2016 the Democratic party used superdelegates to ensure that Clinton would be the nominee. In 2024 Kamala was chosen after Biden dropped out - but not through a primary process.

If Democrats reform their process they may not get the candidate they want, but the one we need.

[Anonymous]

I would LOVE if republicans could discuss Trump without bringing up democrats.

The question isn’t what do you think about democrats. Or even why did you vote for him over a democrat.

The question is how do you not see the oligarchy taking over and constitutional protections being eroded? Are you ok with executive branch mass firings (generally under false “cause” or random culling)? Are you ok with Musk and the tech bros having access to so many systems without divulging conflicts of interest or doing divestments? Do you like that they are purposefully causing mass unemployment and market losses while selling citizenship off to wealthy foreigners? Are you ok with talks of gutting Medicaid and Social Security?

If you are not a fan of these things do you think immigration and trans issues are so important as to make tyranny tolerable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Maybe the DNC can back to open primaries and not coronating candidates like Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris.

Aren't you bothered by the constant use of the term democracy, when democrats are anything but?

You can just say women. Because that's part of the reality. America doesn't want highly qualified, intelligent policy wonks. Or at least it's not an advantage. There's a reason Biden was able to beat Trump.

But I do agree that the Democrats should stop trying to create the perfect candidate in a lab and let the chips fall where they may.

Can someone explain this BS about Democrats not having primaries? Incumbent Presidents are rarely primaried, and if so, it is a fatal sign of weakness. Nixon (1972), Reagan (1984), Bush (2004), and Trump (2020) had no primary challengers. Why should Biden have had a challenger in 2024? Yes he was a weak candidate, but the idea that Democrats don’t hold primaries is a bunch of garbage. Obama beat the field to win the nomination in 2008, and Biden did the same in 2020.

PP here. And it's not entirely BS - in 2016 the Democratic party used superdelegates to ensure that Clinton would be the nominee. In 2024 Kamala was chosen after Biden dropped out - but not through a primary process.

If Democrats reform their process they may not get the candidate they want, but the one we need.

And let's not forget 2020 when the DNC fabricated the "Biden is the only one that can beat Trump" narrative so that they could justify forcing everyone else out of the race. A box of raisins could beaten Trump in 2020. How'd we fall for the Biden crap?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Democracy combined with an educated electorate would be death for the right. They live on an alternate set of facts they had to generate after they realized reality was not their friend. Authoritarianism and ignorance are their best chance for advancing their agenda. The goal is within their grasp now.

We have a Democracy set up to withstand a whole lot of awfulness that can occur with the combination of low IQ voters and crooked politicians thanks to the brilliance of our founding fathers. What our founding fathers couldn't prevent is a two-party political system that would evolve into two toxic money controlled political parties that would eventually leave the American public up poop's creek.

GW, in his farewell speech, was brilliant enough to forecast this one future problem that our government wasn't structured to deal with.

As an independent, I agree with this statement. I think we’re moving towards a one party system, the party that is currently in power. It’s almost inevitable, the US has been overconfidently moving towards this system for a while, aided by democrats patronizing arrogance, not just MAGA ignorance. It’s an American decision and indecision that has led us here. We wanted to know what it feels like to live under an authoritarian regime and we figured out a way to make it happen. Lessons are still not being learned from both sides. That’s why it’s inevitable. This has been my perception for at least the last 10 years

Who is we?

If you say the people, I find that hard to square. If Dems need to be more focused com the working class (because the GOP isn’t at all) why would the working class prefer to live under an authoritarian regime? It gives them less power, less freedom, and fewer protections.

If you say, the GOP and the Dem politicians, I’m still not convinced. While money has flowed into both parties, the Dems have made a lot of progress on human rights since I was a kid. I’m middle aged. I’m not buying this nihilistic viewpoint. I think people might extol the benefits of socialism, but authoritarianism…nah. Look at China and DPRK and Russia. The majority of Americans don’t want to live like that.

My father is dead now, but he told me once, sometime in the late 80s or early 90s, that the best form of government was a benevolent dictator. He couldn't stand the chaos that democracy fosters. He was a conservative. I think some people just want a strong leader in charge because they are generally just fearful. I hate to say that about my father. But I think it rings true for a good many people. And for many of them, what Trump is doing now feels protective.

Until it won't. But by then it will be too late.

Benevolent is key. I can’t think of a single benevolent dictator.

Yes, I think people are in favor, but it’s a small minority. I lived in China for many years. Yes, they can build an airport in the time it takes a democracy time to create a blueprint. All is well and good until it’s not. The Chinese live in fear of the government. It rules every aspect of their life. It also strips community. Look at the cultural revolution. They’ve never gotten past it. It’s not a kind place. I was glad to leave. That I could leave.

There’s a few in Africa