Tell High School Students to Stop Contacting Professors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As business professor, I get tons of annoying emails from students wanting "research internships" or "mentorship". Some are graduate students, some are undergrads, and some are in high school. Some are in my county, some are in my state. Some are in India or Bangladesh.

"Dear Professor X, I am a junior at XYZ high school and am greatly impressed by your paper "" [published before this kid was born]. I would like to study under you."

One elementary school girl from across the country asked for a free sweatshirt. Obviously her teacher told her to do this. One private high school student bragged that he founded and ran a charitable investment fund. The assets under management were less than one year of tuition. Some college counselors must be telling them to get lines on their resumes. One stranger sent his resume and asked for a letter of recommendation.

This is all an annoying waste of time. I mostly teach graduate students, never lower-level undergrads. High schools don't even offer courses in my subject. Who is telling students to do this?

And you should not mostly be teaching grad students. I would fire you if you did not have tenure.

Is "no prof should be mostly teaching grad students" one of the next-gen prof-bashing memes? Asking for a friend...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BECAUSE THERE ARE HIGH SCHOOLS WHO REQUIRE STUDENTS TO DO RESEARCH PROJECTS WITH A COLLEGE PROFESSOR.

My kid had to do that. He cold-contacted dozens of profs in different universities for a school-mandated mini research project. Only one responded, and he was really nice, and my kid was very grateful and tried to take up the least amount of his time as possible. He aced the project and thanked the professor.

You don't even need to respond to these emails, OP. All we're asking is that you stop whining about children who are required by their schools to do certain things. YOU LOOK NASTY.

This must be utter nonsense. I am a college professor. I am beholden to the students at my own institution. Why would I utilize my free time to teach a high school student? This is an asinine expectation from a high school, and so I call BS.

[Anonymous]

My kid didn't do it, but College Essay Guy recommended emailing a professor. The idea was if you get a response back and engage in a conversation, your "why us" essay can be more specific.

"I have spoken with Dr Larla and am really looking forward to taking their Obsessive Parenting class."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As business professor, I get tons of annoying emails from students wanting "research internships" or "mentorship". Some are graduate students, some are undergrads, and some are in high school. Some are in my county, some are in my state. Some are in India or Bangladesh.

"Dear Professor X, I am a junior at XYZ high school and am greatly impressed by your paper "" [published before this kid was born]. I would like to study under you."

One elementary school girl from across the country asked for a free sweatshirt. Obviously her teacher told her to do this. One private high school student bragged that he founded and ran a charitable investment fund. The assets under management were less than one year of tuition. Some college counselors must be telling them to get lines on their resumes. One stranger sent his resume and asked for a letter of recommendation.

This is all an annoying waste of time. I mostly teach graduate students, never lower-level undergrads. High schools don't even offer courses in my subject. Who is telling students to do this?

And you should not mostly be teaching grad students. I would fire you if you did not have tenure.

You clearly have little knowledge of academia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many professors tend to take in kids of donors or people from their own social circle so obviously other students think they have a shot, without knowing that it's nepotism.

This! It’s such a rigged system. There was a post recently about how to get an internship and someone wrote to email professors because her child got an internship/research opportunity that way. Then added they knew the professor but their child would have gotten it anyways if they just cold called or emailed. Um yeah sure!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid didn't do it, but College Essay Guy recommended emailing a professor. The idea was if you get a response back and engage in a conversation, your "why us" essay can be more specific.

"I have spoken with Dr Larla and am really looking forward to taking their Obsessive Parenting class."

I would not trust CEG’s advice. Brought my kid’s personal rating down due to awful essays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As business professor, I get tons of annoying emails from students wanting "research internships" or "mentorship". Some are graduate students, some are undergrads, and some are in high school. Some are in my county, some are in my state. Some are in India or Bangladesh.

"Dear Professor X, I am a junior at XYZ high school and am greatly impressed by your paper "" [published before this kid was born]. I would like to study under you."

One elementary school girl from across the country asked for a free sweatshirt. Obviously her teacher told her to do this. One private high school student bragged that he founded and ran a charitable investment fund. The assets under management were less than one year of tuition. Some college counselors must be telling them to get lines on their resumes. One stranger sent his resume and asked for a letter of recommendation.

This is all an annoying waste of time. I mostly teach graduate students, never lower-level undergrads. High schools don't even offer courses in my subject. Who is telling students to do this?

And you should not mostly be teaching grad students. I would fire you if you did not have tenure.

Is "no prof should be mostly teaching grad students" one of the next-gen prof-bashing memes? Asking for a friend...

Yes. Some people here believe life begins and ends at undergrad.

[Anonymous]

I'm an academic at a research organization (not a university) and I totally agree with the OP. But I'd go a step further: I also get emails all the time from undergrad students whose professors require them to do some kind of interview or mock policy exercise involving outside experts. I understand the desire to help students get real-world experience, but I don't have endless extra time to help teach someone else's class.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am horrified by this and would never allow it as a parent. But you are a business professor: they want something from you.

On the other hand, sometimes professors in severely undersubscribed areas are really the ones who should be wanting something from the student. After all, some humanities departments are dying on the vine.

For that reason, I did allow/encourage DC to write two very brief emails: one to a professor in a niche humanities major at a top 10 SLAC, and one to a professor in the same field at a very large but prestigious oos state flagship.

To my great surprise, the large school professor answered; he was lovely and informative. The SLAC professor did not.

Guess where kid did not apply?

The SLAC professor was probably conserving her time for the students who contribute to her salary and for whose learning she is responsible.

The idea that faculty have a duty to respond to unsolicited junk mail is nuts. The idea that mentoring high school students would be cost effective for anyone who is doing PhD level humanities or social science research is also nuts. (I have no lab experience. Though I think the value added of a high school student to a lab would be negative, perhaps there are some low level repetitive-but-not-critical tasks that a young student could be made responsible for.)

One reason Lumiere and the other pay-to-play research experience services cost so much is that they have to pay (very junior PhD and postdoc level) people to mentor them.

No mentoring or research was asked for. Just questions about studying there to decide whether to apply ED. You can disagree on whether the SLAC professor was kind of a jerk, but it is a very bad look for SLACs trying to sell themselves on intimate interaction with students. And it is against the prof's self-interest when the department is only producing a few majors a year...and basically has almost no students "for whose learning she is responsible."

You have no idea how many junk emails a particular professor gets per week. If you're on DCUM you know that many many applicants apply for niche subjects with the plan to switch to econ freshman year.

SLACs have whole departments tasked with responding to queries from high school students. It's not the role of teaching faculty to do so.

You apparently don't know any professors in niche humanities majors at SLACs -- or seem to have much familiarity with SLACs at all.

You also have a very interesting take, namely, that a professor at a dying humanities department with 2-3 majors a year should not make an "email's worth of effort" to secure enrollment of a potential major the following year. If you are the "OP business prof," might I suggest you get to know your colleagues in marketing better?

As for the "role of teaching faculty" (a redundant phrase in discussing SLACs), it is, to be sure, not part of their job description. But that means, in the long run, they are in danger of not having jobs.

I was not the OP.

For SLACs, niche departments are service departments. Anthropology and comparative literature professors often teach, for the most part, non-majors who are fulfilling distribution requirements. Some may lament the lack of serious students committed to their discipline; others may think such students take more time and energy than the average.

A big rebound in, for example, the number of art history or German majors is highly unlikely, even if professors in those departments start responding to emails from random high school students.

That’s really the point: this thread is about contacting professors. I gave an example where a high school student contacting one, before committing to, say, ED is not only appropriate but wise (for an actual humanities kid who will not change majors). If a SLAC professor thinks “having such students take(s) more time and energy” than it’s worth, and does not deign to respond to an email, then that’s something the kid really needs to know — all the more so because it is a SLAC. If a professor is the opposite and is psyched to have any kid expressing real, demonstrated interest in an e-mail (unusual, as you are apparently unaware), that’s great information to have as well. I guess you disagree.

Your point that a humanities rebound is not likely is certainly a profound one. But if a professor can increase their majors by 50% every year or so (even from 2 to 3) by answering a few emails, it is highly advisable that they do so, lest they more rapidly lose yet another tenure track “line” in their department or, worse, have their department permanently “consolidated.”

But it’s not teal interest; it’s demonstrated interest for the purposes of playing the admissions game.

Exactly. Lots of schemers in the admissions game. You say your kid is authentic but how would that be apparent in an email? Why is it the professor's job to judge student's sincerity?

As PP mentioned, if a HS student is genuinely interested in a specific area of research/study, why not spend time reading the relevant literature and familiarizing him/herself with important current work in their filed. Why not read a few journals with a high impact factor? Emailing scholars seems more about making "connections" than learning.

Yup. Students are of course already doing that - reading scientific research and journals. But now that's not enough. Applications for competitive high school research programs, governor's school, etc ask students to describe their specific skills and experience in labs, research, and programming.

The broader point is that, for talented high school students with no connections, there are often limited opportunities to develop sought-after skills. So instead of having institutional support (by either high schools or universities), these kids are trying to figure out things on their own which is stupid and inefficient (and apparently annoying to a lot of people). While I agree that it all seems silly and premature, that is the reality. I also think it's weird that our entire public school system is encouraging smart students to load up on supposed college-level work (APs) beginning Freshman year. But we have created a rigor race. Instead of creating a broader and deeper pipeline of opportunities for students, we are increasingly creating a Hunger Games dynamic where students are fighting over the ever-shrinking number of opportunities.

While I realize this isn't a problem for an individual professor to solve, I think it's important for professors to understand the frictions students face and perhaps have more empathy for students instead of assuming entitlement.

I hear you. I think parents can also do their bit to discourage kids from trying to do it all. I really did that with my kid. People thought I was crazy. Kid got into Harvard. I guess it doesn’t take all that.

I'm glad that things worked out for your family. You are right that balance is important. My kid has the intellectual curiosity, intelligence and stats for ivy and does indeed wonk out over scientific journals (doesn't understand all and often focuses on abstracts) in subjects of interest. DC applied to a few competitive programs but opted out of the cold calling thing, particularly in light of the current political funding drama facing universities. Likely not applying to ivy. We are focusing on fit over prestige. If the programs don't work out or are cancelled, DC will do a regular summer job. We aren't doing pay to play research, even if that reduces DC's chances for reach schools.

Still, it is so frustrating how inefficient our educational system is developing talent. It reminds me of the absurdity of the pay to play travel sports model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an academic at a research organization (not a university) and I totally agree with the OP. But I'd go a step further: I also get emails all the time from undergrad students whose professors require them to do some kind of interview or mock policy exercise involving outside experts. I understand the desire to help students get real-world experience, but I don't have endless extra time to help teach someone else's class.

Yikes. I would never do this. In fact I question whether they are actually required by their profs or are just saying that for sympathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an academic at a research organization (not a university) and I totally agree with the OP. But I'd go a step further: I also get emails all the time from undergrad students whose professors require them to do some kind of interview or mock policy exercise involving outside experts. I understand the desire to help students get real-world experience, but I don't have endless extra time to help teach someone else's class.

The problem is that the universities are not stepping up. Few high school teachers are stepping up. Then research institutions and grad programs clamor over the few students who were able to get the best practical experience. No one wants to actually do the development work of students- just want to reap the benefits. Have you stepped up for one student?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As business professor, I get tons of annoying emails from students wanting "research internships" or "mentorship". Some are graduate students, some are undergrads, and some are in high school. Some are in my county, some are in my state. Some are in India or Bangladesh.

"Dear Professor X, I am a junior at XYZ high school and am greatly impressed by your paper "" [published before this kid was born]. I would like to study under you."

One elementary school girl from across the country asked for a free sweatshirt. Obviously her teacher told her to do this. One private high school student bragged that he founded and ran a charitable investment fund. The assets under management were less than one year of tuition. Some college counselors must be telling them to get lines on their resumes. One stranger sent his resume and asked for a letter of recommendation.

This is all an annoying waste of time. I mostly teach graduate students, never lower-level undergrads. High schools don't even offer courses in my subject. Who is telling students to do this?

And you should not mostly be teaching grad students. I would fire you if you did not have tenure.

The most famous and esteemed professors at nearly every university usually only teach grad students.

The most famous Wharton professors almost never teach undergrads. Nobody is going to fire them as the school cares about research output and their consulting work/studies done in connection with private industry more than teaching an undergrad class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s kinda obnoxious for HS kids to think they should get a job doing research.

The professor has a slew of graduate students at his fingertips to help with research. Why would someone think he would ask a kid in HS to help with research?Tell me why. Let me real here.

Go get a job at the mall and leave this professor alone.

And I think you haven’t bothered to read the thread. The kids are being told they need to do research. They would probably be happier spending one their last free summers lifeguarding than do research.

Blame the HSs, the AOs, the consultants and the parents.

Don't blame the AO's. I speak to AO's all of the time (athletic recruiting). I have never been asked about a kids research even at the very top schools. They ask about a lot of stuff but research never comes up.

If you look at the Harvard ratings, to get a 1 in the Academic category, you need original research! This came to light during the SFFA lawsuit.

My 1600/4.0 with 5’s in 3 APs junior year (highest rigor, was valedictorian) received a rating of 2 from first reader, and 2+ from next. No research.

Let’s blame it on Harvard!

Not being snarky, but why does this point to research being issue? I had a 4.0/1600 with 5 AP’s junior year plus 2 extra college courses outside their rigorous high school. They didn’t end up getting into Harvard so don’t have a rating, but that seems like typical load? Obviously excellent stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are admission services that target kids for elite schools that suggest kids write a professor at a school they want to attend and express interest in their field or work and ask for some literature to read or to assist with research.

The idea is that the admissions officer ultimately works for professors, and professors at elite schools ultimately want smart kids who are excited about their field and its possibilities. Of course, that may be true, but I’d be pis*ed if 20-30 kids contacted me every year for this brown nose effort.

This is exactly what is happening.

[Anonymous]

^^ DP but I believe "original research" does not mean what people here think it means, and many, many very bright kids who worked in some lab and got their names on some paper would not get 1's and 2's in the academic category.