Tell High School Students to Stop Contacting Professors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am horrified by this and would never allow it as a parent. But you are a business professor: they want something from you.

On the other hand, sometimes professors in severely undersubscribed areas are really the ones who should be wanting something from the student. After all, some humanities departments are dying on the vine.

For that reason, I did allow/encourage DC to write two very brief emails: one to a professor in a niche humanities major at a top 10 SLAC, and one to a professor in the same field at a very large but prestigious oos state flagship.

To my great surprise, the large school professor answered; he was lovely and informative. The SLAC professor did not.

Guess where kid did not apply?

Same poster. Should have made clear kid was not asking for anything, other than some insight/brief advice on what it's like to study there (to inform DC's decision whether they wanted to apply early).

Most faculty do not have time to reply to random emails. They are paid to teach and do research. Many get hundreds of emails a day. The fact you think your child deserved a response is really thoughtless. It was nice the professor responded, but think about if every single high school kid did that? Already they get emails from graduate applicants which usually require a response.

Asking for insight/brief advice is asking for something and to act like it isn't, is not thinking of the other person. I think if the professor replies, great, if they don't that is fine also. Many assistants go through emails and might delete it or the professor is too busy/ might be teaching multiple courses and writing a book that semester.

Some universities have programs for high school students, so if your kid wants experience I would recommend looking into those programs and contacting those faculty who actually want to work with high school students.

It is thoughtless that these so-called "professors" presume to know what being a SLAC humanities professor at a field "dying on the vine" -- did you not know they have no grad students? -- is like. Asked and answered but, no, these emails are few and far between for such professors. Nor was anything written about "desert." But I will say something about it now: students "deserve" professors who can read closely and write -- in any field. This thread only demonstrates how deficient most professors are in this regard.

This is not the kind of comment that should be attacking anyone’s writing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As business professor, I get tons of annoying emails from students wanting "research internships" or "mentorship". Some are graduate students, some are undergrads, and some are in high school. Some are in my county, some are in my state. Some are in India or Bangladesh.

"Dear Professor X, I am a junior at XYZ high school and am greatly impressed by your paper "" [published before this kid was born]. I would like to study under you."

One elementary school girl from across the country asked for a free sweatshirt. Obviously her teacher told her to do this. One private high school student bragged that he founded and ran a charitable investment fund. The assets under management were less than one year of tuition. Some college counselors must be telling them to get lines on their resumes. One stranger sent his resume and asked for a letter of recommendation.

This is all an annoying waste of time. I mostly teach graduate students, never lower-level undergrads. High schools don't even offer courses in my subject. Who is telling students to do this?

And you should not mostly be teaching grad students. I would fire you if you did not have tenure.

You clearly have little knowledge of academia.

Agree with this. Certain aspects of research require more experience due to the complexity of implementation.

+1. The sooner that people stop pretending that high schoolers should be doing high-level academic research, the better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As business professor, I get tons of annoying emails from students wanting "research internships" or "mentorship". Some are graduate students, some are undergrads, and some are in high school. Some are in my county, some are in my state. Some are in India or Bangladesh.

"Dear Professor X, I am a junior at XYZ high school and am greatly impressed by your paper "" [published before this kid was born]. I would like to study under you."

One elementary school girl from across the country asked for a free sweatshirt. Obviously her teacher told her to do this. One private high school student bragged that he founded and ran a charitable investment fund. The assets under management were less than one year of tuition. Some college counselors must be telling them to get lines on their resumes. One stranger sent his resume and asked for a letter of recommendation.

This is all an annoying waste of time. I mostly teach graduate students, never lower-level undergrads. High schools don't even offer courses in my subject. Who is telling students to do this?

And you should not mostly be teaching grad students. I would fire you if you did not have tenure.

You clearly have little knowledge of academia.

Agree with this. Certain aspects of research require more experience due to the complexity of implementation.

And therefore others require less.

[Anonymous]

OP, you're looking at it the wrong way.. Monetize that email stream!

Do what CEE/RSI does -- if you don't want to host a student researcher, charge them for advice instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As business professor, I get tons of annoying emails from students wanting "research internships" or "mentorship". Some are graduate students, some are undergrads, and some are in high school. Some are in my county, some are in my state. Some are in India or Bangladesh.

"Dear Professor X, I am a junior at XYZ high school and am greatly impressed by your paper "" [published before this kid was born]. I would like to study under you."

One elementary school girl from across the country asked for a free sweatshirt. Obviously her teacher told her to do this. One private high school student bragged that he founded and ran a charitable investment fund. The assets under management were less than one year of tuition. Some college counselors must be telling them to get lines on their resumes. One stranger sent his resume and asked for a letter of recommendation.

This is all an annoying waste of time. I mostly teach graduate students, never lower-level undergrads. High schools don't even offer courses in my subject. Who is telling students to do this?

And you should not mostly be teaching grad students. I would fire you if you did not have tenure.

You clearly have little knowledge of academia.

Agree with this. Certain aspects of research require more experience due to the complexity of implementation.

And therefore others require less.

And some require the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cold calling, cold emailing - these are the only way that unhooked and not networked students can get internships. However, once you internalize it, you do not feel like a failure if someone like OP acts prissy. It is a numbers game and students should keep sending applications.

OP's privilege is showing. As well as his self-importance as a mediocre White man!

DEI baby sad that she's not getting the red carpet rolled out for her anymore? Sad!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As business professor, I get tons of annoying emails from students wanting "research internships" or "mentorship". Some are graduate students, some are undergrads, and some are in high school. Some are in my county, some are in my state. Some are in India or Bangladesh.

"Dear Professor X, I am a junior at XYZ high school and am greatly impressed by your paper "" [published before this kid was born]. I would like to study under you."

One elementary school girl from across the country asked for a free sweatshirt. Obviously her teacher told her to do this. One private high school student bragged that he founded and ran a charitable investment fund. The assets under management were less than one year of tuition. Some college counselors must be telling them to get lines on their resumes. One stranger sent his resume and asked for a letter of recommendation.

This is all an annoying waste of time. I mostly teach graduate students, never lower-level undergrads. High schools don't even offer courses in my subject. Who is telling students to do this?

And you should not mostly be teaching grad students. I would fire you if you did not have tenure.

You clearly have little knowledge of academia.

Agree with this. Certain aspects of research require more experience due to the complexity of implementation.

And therefore others require less.

And some require the same.

Others require a different kind that can't be directly compared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cold calling, cold emailing - these are the only way that unhooked and not networked students can get internships. However, once you internalize it, you do not feel like a failure if someone like OP acts prissy. It is a numbers game and students should keep sending applications.

OP's privilege is showing. As well as his self-importance as a mediocre White man!

Yes! how else do kids with unhooked regular old parents get research internships? The cold emailing! I think it’s a good experience for the students, and if the professors don’t like it- delete!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cold calling, cold emailing - these are the only way that unhooked and not networked students can get internships. However, once you internalize it, you do not feel like a failure if someone like OP acts prissy. It is a numbers game and students should keep sending applications.

OP's privilege is showing. As well as his self-importance as a mediocre White man!

Yes! how else do kids with unhooked regular old parents get research internships? The cold emailing! I think it’s a good experience for the students, and if the professors don’t like it- delete!

This is what I love about this forum. We're 13 pages in, but discussion is dying down... So a new bunch of commenters now chime in reacting to the first and last post but ignoring all that actual discussion (wherein the rhetorical question asked here was answered multiple times). It's a metaphor for our current civilization. Populism!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cold calling, cold emailing - these are the only way that unhooked and not networked students can get internships. However, once you internalize it, you do not feel like a failure if someone like OP acts prissy. It is a numbers game and students should keep sending applications.

OP's privilege is showing. As well as his self-importance as a mediocre White man!

Yes! how else do kids with unhooked regular old parents get research internships? The cold emailing! I think it’s a good experience for the students, and if the professors don’t like it- delete!

1. That experience may be more appropriate during undergrad instead.
2. Students do not research for college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cold calling, cold emailing - these are the only way that unhooked and not networked students can get internships. However, once you internalize it, you do not feel like a failure if someone like OP acts prissy. It is a numbers game and students should keep sending applications.

OP's privilege is showing. As well as his self-importance as a mediocre White man!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cold calling, cold emailing - these are the only way that unhooked and not networked students can get internships. However, once you internalize it, you do not feel like a failure if someone like OP acts prissy. It is a numbers game and students should keep sending applications.

OP's privilege is showing. As well as his self-importance as a mediocre White man!

What makes you think OP is white? Or a man?

Unless your assumption is women and non-White people can’t be professors?

Interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s kinda obnoxious for HS kids to think they should get a job doing research.

The professor has a slew of graduate students at his fingertips to help with research. Why would someone think he would ask a kid in HS to help with research?Tell me why. Let me real here.

Go get a job at the mall and leave this professor alone.

And I think you haven’t bothered to read the thread. The kids are being told they need to do research. They would probably be happier spending one their last free summers lifeguarding than do research.

Blame the HSs, the AOs, the consultants and the parents.

Don't blame the AO's. I speak to AO's all of the time (athletic recruiting). I have never been asked about a kids research even at the very top schools. They ask about a lot of stuff but research never comes up.

If you look at the Harvard ratings, to get a 1 in the Academic category, you need original research! This came to light during the SFFA lawsuit.

My 1600/4.0 with 5’s in 3 APs junior year (highest rigor, was valedictorian) received a rating of 2 from first reader, and 2+ from next. No research.

Let’s blame it on Harvard!

Not being snarky, but why does this point to research being issue? I had a 4.0/1600 with 5 AP’s junior year plus 2 extra college courses outside their rigorous high school. They didn’t end up getting into Harvard so don’t have a rating, but that seems like typical load? Obviously excellent stats.

The point is that just maxing out course rigor and test scores isn't enough for a 1, so something more (like research) is necessary.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for all the supportive and commiserating comments. Here are a few anecdotes for context.

Anonymous wrote: OP's privilege is showing. As well as his self-importance as a mediocre White man!

Suzanna, is that you? https://cssh.northeastern.edu/faculty/suzanna-walters/

Seriously, I don't know why you assume I'm a privileged, white, male, or mediocre. I was born outside the U.S., my father did not attend college, and my mother did not attend high school. Only half my colleagues are American, with many Indian and Chinese. We all just studied math and found lucrative applications in my STEM field.

It takes little time for me to delete emails. But high school students are wasting their own time. I sometimes just tell them to study math. These are not even applicants! They are just random high school students, or even college students or graduate students in other countries. It is especially silly when they write that they liked one of my old papers, because they clearly lack the ability to read and appreciate the paper. They just skimmed my webpage on advice of some counselor. These students don't know anything about my field, except that their parents think it is prestigious or profitable.

I sent one persistent Texas high school student a deceptively simple algebra problem (optimizing the dimensions of a box) to illustrate his lack of preparedness. He quickly sent three replies:

1) "Do I need to solve for length, width, and height, or can I just assume their values?"
2) "Oh wait, I see. Can the values be negative?"
3) "The answer is length = width = height = 12 inches. Right?"

I replied that his answer was wrong and that sending three emails demonstrated his "high maintenance" inability to work independently. That is expected of a high school student, and that is why he needs to pay attention to his high school teachers. Then I blocked him.

I don't know whether the research helps admissions. GMU professor Bryan Caplan home-schooled his twin boys, who published in Journal of Mormon History and got full scholarships at Vanderbilt. https://www.econlib.org/our-homeschooling-odyssey/

Newly hired administrators think they know more than long-term professors (who write research papers, textbooks, and teach). So professors ignore them and do our work. I have no current contact with admissions.

I paid for a teenage girl from my wife's social work to attend a two-week college summer course designed for high school students. She promptly got pregnant and dropped out of high school. But she later finished high school at night, enrolled in college, and became a teacher. She also inspired her jealous dropout sister to finish high school too. So, exposure to college can have long-lasting effects.

But most high school students do not need personalized instruction from professors. One exception was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fefferman. IIRC, he was only 13 when he applied to University of Maryland, and the math chairman took personal responsibility for him on campus. Good call, because Fefferman won the Fields Medal, the most prestigious prize in mathematics. I don't have a lot of young Feffermans emailing me.

[Anonymous]

OP here with an update. I asked one local high school student who told him to email me, and said it was his own initiative.

I just received another email from a college counselor who wants to meet me to discuss a "mentorship opportunity". Such gall!