Tell High School Students to Stop Contacting Professors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s kinda obnoxious for HS kids to think they should get a job doing research.

The professor has a slew of graduate students at his fingertips to help with research. Why would someone think he would ask a kid in HS to help with research?Tell me why. Let me real here.

Go get a job at the mall and leave this professor alone.

And I think you haven’t bothered to read the thread. The kids are being told they need to do research. They would probably be happier spending one their last free summers lifeguarding than do research.

Blame the HSs, the AOs, the consultants and the parents.

Don't blame the AO's. I speak to AO's all of the time (athletic recruiting). I have never been asked about a kids research even at the very top schools. They ask about a lot of stuff but research never comes up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BECAUSE THERE ARE HIGH SCHOOLS WHO REQUIRE STUDENTS TO DO RESEARCH PROJECTS WITH A COLLEGE PROFESSOR.

My kid had to do that. He cold-contacted dozens of profs in different universities for a school-mandated mini research project. Only one responded, and he was really nice, and my kid was very grateful and tried to take up the least amount of his time as possible. He aced the project and thanked the professor.

You don't even need to respond to these emails, OP. All we're asking is that you stop whining about children who are required by their schools to do certain things. YOU LOOK NASTY.

STOP SCREAMING. IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE AN UNHINGED BOOMER.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am horrified by this and would never allow it as a parent. But you are a business professor: they want something from you.

On the other hand, sometimes professors in severely undersubscribed areas are really the ones who should be wanting something from the student. After all, some humanities departments are dying on the vine.

For that reason, I did allow/encourage DC to write two very brief emails: one to a professor in a niche humanities major at a top 10 SLAC, and one to a professor in the same field at a very large but prestigious oos state flagship.

To my great surprise, the large school professor answered; he was lovely and informative. The SLAC professor did not.

Guess where kid did not apply?

The SLAC professor was probably conserving her time for the students who contribute to her salary and for whose learning she is responsible.

The idea that faculty have a duty to respond to unsolicited junk mail is nuts. The idea that mentoring high school students would be cost effective for anyone who is doing PhD level humanities or social science research is also nuts. (I have no lab experience. Though I think the value added of a high school student to a lab would be negative, perhaps there are some low level repetitive-but-not-critical tasks that a young student could be made responsible for.)

One reason Lumiere and the other pay-to-play research experience services cost so much is that they have to pay (very junior PhD and postdoc level) people to mentor them.

No mentoring or research was asked for. Just questions about studying there to decide whether to apply ED. You can disagree on whether the SLAC professor was kind of a jerk, but it is a very bad look for SLACs trying to sell themselves on intimate interaction with students. And it is against the prof's self-interest when the department is only producing a few majors a year...and basically has almost no students "for whose learning she is responsible."

You have no idea how many junk emails a particular professor gets per week. If you're on DCUM you know that many many applicants apply for niche subjects with the plan to switch to econ freshman year.

SLACs have whole departments tasked with responding to queries from high school students. It's not the role of teaching faculty to do so.

You apparently don't know any professors in niche humanities majors at SLACs -- or seem to have much familiarity with SLACs at all.

You also have a very interesting take, namely, that a professor at a dying humanities department with 2-3 majors a year should not make an "email's worth of effort" to secure enrollment of a potential major the following year. If you are the "OP business prof," might I suggest you get to know your colleagues in marketing better?

As for the "role of teaching faculty" (a redundant phrase in discussing SLACs), it is, to be sure, not part of their job description. But that means, in the long run, they are in danger of not having jobs.

I was not the OP.

For SLACs, niche departments are service departments. Anthropology and comparative literature professors often teach, for the most part, non-majors who are fulfilling distribution requirements. Some may lament the lack of serious students committed to their discipline; others may think such students take more time and energy than the average.

A big rebound in, for example, the number of art history or German majors is highly unlikely, even if professors in those departments start responding to emails from random high school students.

That’s really the point: this thread is about contacting professors. I gave an example where a high school student contacting one, before committing to, say, ED is not only appropriate but wise (for an actual humanities kid who will not change majors). If a SLAC professor thinks “having such students take(s) more time and energy” than it’s worth, and does not deign to respond to an email, then that’s something the kid really needs to know — all the more so because it is a SLAC. If a professor is the opposite and is psyched to have any kid expressing real, demonstrated interest in an e-mail (unusual, as you are apparently unaware), that’s great information to have as well. I guess you disagree.

Your point that a humanities rebound is not likely is certainly a profound one. But if a professor can increase their majors by 50% every year or so (even from 2 to 3) by answering a few emails, it is highly advisable that they do so, lest they more rapidly lose yet another tenure track “line” in their department or, worse, have their department permanently “consolidated.”

But it’s not teal interest; it’s demonstrated interest for the purposes of playing the admissions game.

Exactly. Lots of schemers in the admissions game. You say your kid is authentic but how would that be apparent in an email? Why is it the professor's job to judge student's sincerity?

As PP mentioned, if a HS student is genuinely interested in a specific area of research/study, why not spend time reading the relevant literature and familiarizing him/herself with important current work in their filed. Why not read a few journals with a high impact factor? Emailing scholars seems more about making "connections" than learning.

Yup. Students are of course already doing that - reading scientific research and journals. But now that's not enough. Applications for competitive high school research programs, governor's school, etc ask students to describe their specific skills and experience in labs, research, and programming.

The broader point is that, for talented high school students with no connections, there are often limited opportunities to develop sought-after skills. So instead of having institutional support (by either high schools or universities), these kids are trying to figure out things on their own which is stupid and inefficient (and apparently annoying to a lot of people). While I agree that it all seems silly and premature, that is the reality. I also think it's weird that our entire public school system is encouraging smart students to load up on supposed college-level work (APs) beginning Freshman year. But we have created a rigor race. Instead of creating a broader and deeper pipeline of opportunities for students, we are increasingly creating a Hunger Games dynamic where students are fighting over the ever-shrinking number of opportunities.

While I realize this isn't a problem for an individual professor to solve, I think it's important for professors to understand the frictions students face and perhaps have more empathy for students instead of assuming entitlement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BECAUSE THERE ARE HIGH SCHOOLS WHO REQUIRE STUDENTS TO DO RESEARCH PROJECTS WITH A COLLEGE PROFESSOR.

My kid had to do that. He cold-contacted dozens of profs in different universities for a school-mandated mini research project. Only one responded, and he was really nice, and my kid was very grateful and tried to take up the least amount of his time as possible. He aced the project and thanked the professor.

You don't even need to respond to these emails, OP. All we're asking is that you stop whining about children who are required by their schools to do certain things. YOU LOOK NASTY.

Those high schools should then compile a list of willing professors, not send kids out to blindly email random professors hoping for research when it is clear many profs do not think high school students are helpful for research.

I’m curious what school does this and why? And what support do they give students in finding research?

Walter Johnson HS, APEX program (MCPS, public school system in MD). Senior year project for a semester.
There was no support at all, the goal was for the kids to be entirely independent. They needed to present their work in front of a panel at the end of the semester.

This was 2 years ago. The APEX program has since been revisited: they're letting in more kids (entry GPA is significantly lower) and doing away with the harder parts. I'm not sure this semester-long project has survived.

My point is that OP is blaming kids when she or he should be blaming high schools, or other factors. My kid was required to do this in order to graduate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s kinda obnoxious for HS kids to think they should get a job doing research.

The professor has a slew of graduate students at his fingertips to help with research. Why would someone think he would ask a kid in HS to help with research?Tell me why. Let me real here.

Go get a job at the mall and leave this professor alone.

And I think you haven’t bothered to read the thread. The kids are being told they need to do research. They would probably be happier spending one their last free summers lifeguarding than do research.

Blame the HSs, the AOs, the consultants and the parents.

Don't blame the AO's. I speak to AO's all of the time (athletic recruiting). I have never been asked about a kids research even at the very top schools. They ask about a lot of stuff but research never comes up.

If you look at the Harvard ratings, to get a 1 in the Academic category, you need original research! This came to light during the SFFA lawsuit.

My 1600/4.0 with 5’s in 3 APs junior year (highest rigor, was valedictorian) received a rating of 2 from first reader, and 2+ from next. No research.

Let’s blame it on Harvard!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am horrified by this and would never allow it as a parent. But you are a business professor: they want something from you.

On the other hand, sometimes professors in severely undersubscribed areas are really the ones who should be wanting something from the student. After all, some humanities departments are dying on the vine.

For that reason, I did allow/encourage DC to write two very brief emails: one to a professor in a niche humanities major at a top 10 SLAC, and one to a professor in the same field at a very large but prestigious oos state flagship.

To my great surprise, the large school professor answered; he was lovely and informative. The SLAC professor did not.

Guess where kid did not apply?

The SLAC professor was probably conserving her time for the students who contribute to her salary and for whose learning she is responsible.

The idea that faculty have a duty to respond to unsolicited junk mail is nuts. The idea that mentoring high school students would be cost effective for anyone who is doing PhD level humanities or social science research is also nuts. (I have no lab experience. Though I think the value added of a high school student to a lab would be negative, perhaps there are some low level repetitive-but-not-critical tasks that a young student could be made responsible for.)

One reason Lumiere and the other pay-to-play research experience services cost so much is that they have to pay (very junior PhD and postdoc level) people to mentor them.

No mentoring or research was asked for. Just questions about studying there to decide whether to apply ED. You can disagree on whether the SLAC professor was kind of a jerk, but it is a very bad look for SLACs trying to sell themselves on intimate interaction with students. And it is against the prof's self-interest when the department is only producing a few majors a year...and basically has almost no students "for whose learning she is responsible."

You have no idea how many junk emails a particular professor gets per week. If you're on DCUM you know that many many applicants apply for niche subjects with the plan to switch to econ freshman year.

SLACs have whole departments tasked with responding to queries from high school students. It's not the role of teaching faculty to do so.

You apparently don't know any professors in niche humanities majors at SLACs -- or seem to have much familiarity with SLACs at all.

You also have a very interesting take, namely, that a professor at a dying humanities department with 2-3 majors a year should not make an "email's worth of effort" to secure enrollment of a potential major the following year. If you are the "OP business prof," might I suggest you get to know your colleagues in marketing better?

As for the "role of teaching faculty" (a redundant phrase in discussing SLACs), it is, to be sure, not part of their job description. But that means, in the long run, they are in danger of not having jobs.

I was not the OP.

For SLACs, niche departments are service departments. Anthropology and comparative literature professors often teach, for the most part, non-majors who are fulfilling distribution requirements. Some may lament the lack of serious students committed to their discipline; others may think such students take more time and energy than the average.

A big rebound in, for example, the number of art history or German majors is highly unlikely, even if professors in those departments start responding to emails from random high school students.

That’s really the point: this thread is about contacting professors. I gave an example where a high school student contacting one, before committing to, say, ED is not only appropriate but wise (for an actual humanities kid who will not change majors). If a SLAC professor thinks “having such students take(s) more time and energy” than it’s worth, and does not deign to respond to an email, then that’s something the kid really needs to know — all the more so because it is a SLAC. If a professor is the opposite and is psyched to have any kid expressing real, demonstrated interest in an e-mail (unusual, as you are apparently unaware), that’s great information to have as well. I guess you disagree.

Your point that a humanities rebound is not likely is certainly a profound one. But if a professor can increase their majors by 50% every year or so (even from 2 to 3) by answering a few emails, it is highly advisable that they do so, lest they more rapidly lose yet another tenure track “line” in their department or, worse, have their department permanently “consolidated.”

But it’s not teal interest; it’s demonstrated interest for the purposes of playing the admissions game.

Exactly. Lots of schemers in the admissions game. You say your kid is authentic but how would that be apparent in an email? Why is it the professor's job to judge student's sincerity?

As PP mentioned, if a HS student is genuinely interested in a specific area of research/study, why not spend time reading the relevant literature and familiarizing him/herself with important current work in their filed. Why not read a few journals with a high impact factor? Emailing scholars seems more about making "connections" than learning.

Yup. Students are of course already doing that - reading scientific research and journals. But now that's not enough. Applications for competitive high school research programs, governor's school, etc ask students to describe their specific skills and experience in labs, research, and programming.

The broader point is that, for talented high school students with no connections, there are often limited opportunities to develop sought-after skills. So instead of having institutional support (by either high schools or universities), these kids are trying to figure out things on their own which is stupid and inefficient (and apparently annoying to a lot of people). While I agree that it all seems silly and premature, that is the reality. I also think it's weird that our entire public school system is encouraging smart students to load up on supposed college-level work (APs) beginning Freshman year. But we have created a rigor race. Instead of creating a broader and deeper pipeline of opportunities for students, we are increasingly creating a Hunger Games dynamic where students are fighting over the ever-shrinking number of opportunities.

While I realize this isn't a problem for an individual professor to solve, I think it's important for professors to understand the frictions students face and perhaps have more empathy for students instead of assuming entitlement.

I hear you. I think parents can also do their bit to discourage kids from trying to do it all. I really did that with my kid. People thought I was crazy. Kid got into Harvard. I guess it doesn’t take all that.

[Anonymous]

I don't think it's just professors who get this. I'm a lawyer, and I get random emails from students from time to time asking for this or that. And not even from my alma mater either - just totally random.

[Anonymous]

Yup. Students are of course already doing that - reading scientific research and journals. But now that's not enough. Applications for competitive high school research programs, governor's school, etc ask students to describe their specific skills and experience in labs, research, and programming.

The broader point is that, for talented high school students with no connections, there are often limited opportunities to develop sought-after skills. So instead of having institutional support (by either high schools or universities), these kids are trying to figure out things on their own which is stupid and inefficient (and apparently annoying to a lot of people). While I agree that it all seems silly and premature, that is the reality. I also think it's weird that our entire public school system is encouraging smart students to load up on supposed college-level work (APs) beginning Freshman year. But we have created a rigor race. Instead of creating a broader and deeper pipeline of opportunities for students, we are increasingly creating a Hunger Games dynamic where students are fighting over the ever-shrinking number of opportunities.

While I realize this isn't a problem for an individual professor to solve, I think it's important for professors to understand the frictions students face and perhaps have more empathy for students instead of assuming entitlement.


I hear you. I think parents can also do their bit to discourage kids from trying to do it all. I really did that with my kid. People thought I was crazy. Kid got into Harvard. I guess it doesn’t take all that.

Sorry -- I'd guess zero high school students are reading leading journals. They don't have the vocabulary to understand them. Even college students start with textbooks, not journal articles, in STEM and social sciences.

[Anonymous]

Sorry -- I'd guess zero high school students are reading leading journals. They don't have the vocabulary to understand them. Even college students start with textbooks, not journal articles, in STEM and social sciences.

[Anonymous]

Many professors tend to take in kids of donors or people from their own social circle so obviously other students think they have a shot, without knowing that it's nepotism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BECAUSE THERE ARE HIGH SCHOOLS WHO REQUIRE STUDENTS TO DO RESEARCH PROJECTS WITH A COLLEGE PROFESSOR.

My kid had to do that. He cold-contacted dozens of profs in different universities for a school-mandated mini research project. Only one responded, and he was really nice, and my kid was very grateful and tried to take up the least amount of his time as possible. He aced the project and thanked the professor.

You don't even need to respond to these emails, OP. All we're asking is that you stop whining about children who are required by their schools to do certain things. YOU LOOK NASTY.

Those high schools should then compile a list of willing professors, not send kids out to blindly email random professors hoping for research when it is clear many profs do not think high school students are helpful for research.

I’m curious what school does this and why? And what support do they give students in finding research?

Walter Johnson HS, APEX program (MCPS, public school system in MD). Senior year project for a semester.
There was no support at all, the goal was for the kids to be entirely independent. They needed to present their work in front of a panel at the end of the semester.

This was 2 years ago. The APEX program has since been revisited: they're letting in more kids (entry GPA is significantly lower) and doing away with the harder parts. I'm not sure this semester-long project has survived.

My point is that OP is blaming kids when she or he should be blaming high schools, or other factors. My kid was required to do this in order to graduate.

DP. Your high school's requirement to do research is extremely unusual, a far outlier, not typical, not common, and unrelated to the trend in certain forums of students incorrectly thinking they need research for selective college admission.

[Anonymous]

It might help to consider how the professor can justify time- and resource-expenditure on a high-schooler in response to institutional incentives.

My kid did a free summer STEM program at our local research university that gave him legitimate access (no cold-calling!) to a few of the profs there because those profs had agreed to sponsor a certain number of HS kids in their labs for the summer. It was a thing they did and got credit for doing internally: they put those kids' names on their CVs and the kids' photos on the lab's website and later bragged about the kids' college admission successes. At the end of the summer, my kid had a good enough working relation with one of the grad students in the lab where he'd worked over the summer that it was natural to extend the arrangement through the school year.

But here's the key: these profs were given an institutional incentive to welcome those high-schoolers (rising seniors) into their labs.

With no such institutional incentive, it's just cruel to expect high-schoolers to cold-call professors seeking research experience. That's like expecting undergrads to recruit a future dissertation committee by asking random profs to do them a personal favor. The institutional incentives to work with grad students and undergrads can be extended to high-schoolers, but it takes some advance work that high schools and universities ought to be doing together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As business professor, I get tons of annoying emails from students wanting "research internships" or "mentorship". Some are graduate students, some are undergrads, and some are in high school. Some are in my county, some are in my state. Some are in India or Bangladesh.

"Dear Professor X, I am a junior at XYZ high school and am greatly impressed by your paper "" [published before this kid was born]. I would like to study under you."

One elementary school girl from across the country asked for a free sweatshirt. Obviously her teacher told her to do this. One private high school student bragged that he founded and ran a charitable investment fund. The assets under management were less than one year of tuition. Some college counselors must be telling them to get lines on their resumes. One stranger sent his resume and asked for a letter of recommendation.

This is all an annoying waste of time. I mostly teach graduate students, never lower-level undergrads. High schools don't even offer courses in my subject. Who is telling students to do this?

This is wrong. You are an idiot if you are a professor which I am doubting. This is the correct thing to do for the kids. You do not want to do it then ignore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As business professor, I get tons of annoying emails from students wanting "research internships" or "mentorship". Some are graduate students, some are undergrads, and some are in high school. Some are in my county, some are in my state. Some are in India or Bangladesh.

"Dear Professor X, I am a junior at XYZ high school and am greatly impressed by your paper "" [published before this kid was born]. I would like to study under you."

One elementary school girl from across the country asked for a free sweatshirt. Obviously her teacher told her to do this. One private high school student bragged that he founded and ran a charitable investment fund. The assets under management were less than one year of tuition. Some college counselors must be telling them to get lines on their resumes. One stranger sent his resume and asked for a letter of recommendation.

This is all an annoying waste of time. I mostly teach graduate students, never lower-level undergrads. High schools don't even offer courses in my subject. Who is telling students to do this?

And you should not mostly be teaching grad students. I would fire you if you did not have tenure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BECAUSE THERE ARE HIGH SCHOOLS WHO REQUIRE STUDENTS TO DO RESEARCH PROJECTS WITH A COLLEGE PROFESSOR.

My kid had to do that. He cold-contacted dozens of profs in different universities for a school-mandated mini research project. Only one responded, and he was really nice, and my kid was very grateful and tried to take up the least amount of his time as possible. He aced the project and thanked the professor.

You don't even need to respond to these emails, OP. All we're asking is that you stop whining about children who are required by their schools to do certain things. YOU LOOK NASTY.

This must be utter nonsense. I am a college professor. I am beholden to the students at my own institution. Why would I utilize my free time to teach a high school student? This is an asinine expectation from a high school, and so I call BS.