Why do UVA and Michigan attract such affluent student bodies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've always wondered how the NYT purported to know income of all students (not just federal aid recipients) if they don't have aid. How did they get income information and link it to a school?

+1
Still waiting for a link to this.

From the article-

The researchers tracked about 30 million students born between 1980 and 1991, linking anonymized tax returns to attendance records from nearly every college in the country.

Why can't you simply provide a link? Do you know how to do this?

Do you have a Google Machine at home?

Did you know that when you spout claims and/or "information," the burden is on YOU to provide an accompanying link? Otherwise, we'll just assume you've pulled the numbers out of your a$$.

So no then?

[Anonymous]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/18/upshot/some-colleges-have-more-students-from-the-top-1-percent-than-the-bottom-60.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Until you have been at an Ivy or Georgetown, etc, you have not seen extreme wealth …

But I went to nyu and usc so yes I have, lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One reason U of Mich got so good is that the Detroit area was one of the wealthiest in the world for a while due to the auto industry. And even after the American auto industry sagged in the last 35 yrs of the 20th century, there was/is still a lot of money in the state. There are suburbs of Detroit you wouldn’t believe.

I can never figure that out..tons of high level jobs are gone from the Big Three. And suppliers usually have piss poor margins. So where do all the people in Bloomfield Hills or Grosse Pointe work? Or is a lot of it inherited money? Everybody can't own an insurance company or be a financial advisor.

You can't even imagine how many well-paid jobs there once were in the domestic auto industry. But there still are plenty left. And some Japanese, Korean, and other OEMs have offices in Detroit. There are many dual engineer couples here. 2 people making $80K each (low for mid-career supplier money) can easily afford a nice house in the local equivalent of the Wooton zone.

Plus the Boomer white collar retirees are drawing 50% pensions or more.

Bloomfield Hills is full of CEOs.

Grosse Pointe is a mix. That might be where dual attorney couples go to live if they like traditional homes. There is some old money there. (Grosse Pointers, help me out!)

By the way, money pit historic mansions are really cheap in Detroit. Executives that pass through like to buy them for a few years.

Oakland County used to be as affluent as Montgomery County. That is not true anymore. But it hasn't been that long since it was. The K-12 schools are not as good but from what I read, MCPS and Fairfax schools have many of the same problems.

Unfortunately, another round of offshoring is beginning. Chrysler's latest European parent (Stellantis) is planning to transfer more U.S. engineering work to emerging economies.

[Anonymous]

Lots of Michigan companies you have heard of have nothing to do with cars. Carhartt, Whirlpool, La-Z-Boy, Dominos, Little Caesar, Dow Chemical, Upjohn, Kellogg, Morton salt, etc. Pulte, Vlasic, K-Mart all started there. Also lots of international trade entering the country via Detroit & Port Huron.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just to compare public universities (from the NYT):

Students from top 1% of families

Michigan 9.3%
Virginia 8.5%
Illinois 2.5%
Penn State 2.3%
Wisconsin 1.7%

Students from top 10% of families

Michigan 49%
Virginia 49%
Illinois 30%
Penn State 27%
Wisconsin 19%

Where are you getting the top 10% number?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just to compare public universities (from the NYT):

Students from top 1% of families

Michigan 9.3%
Virginia 8.5%
Illinois 2.5%
Penn State 2.3%
Wisconsin 1.7%

Students from top 10% of families

Michigan 49%
Virginia 49%
Illinois 30%
Penn State 27%
Wisconsin 19%

Because the students skew much smarter and intelligence does correlate with income, in some fashion. Physicians and lawyers are hardly the most high paid people ever, but the professions are common, they do earn 200-300k on average, and entry to the profession is test-based in part: smart kids test better on average. Smarter parents are more likely to have top 1/4 kids at least, who aim for top flagships (and top privates). Then of course add in all the SES factors that push the same cycle forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“People who are value conscious realize that the same price for a private is a better value.”

There are very few privates that offer the overall academic excellence that Michigan provides. It’s no value to pay high fees to either a public or private school if it doesn’t measure up. Your comment is too simplistic and generalized.

Those few are ivy/plus, deemed by some other articles to be uchcago stanford duke and mit…throw in hopkins and northwestern: they all provide a demonstrably better education and experience: more resource $ per student, smaller on average classes and a smarter on average peer group than Michigan. Depending on particular needs one could argue WashU, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Georgetown, and the top LAcs are at least a match to umich if not better, due to resources per student, better student professor ratios etc
For others the large size and sports of Michigan makes it better than the others in the second tier

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NOVA parent with DCs at both Michigan and UVA (and also a Michigan and Ivy alum), offering some subjective opinions on the two schools.

Michigan

1. As discussed, Michigan was open to admitting Jews and later Asians who were blocked from the Ivies. Many of these folks were full pay, and their families became loyal to the school.
2. Yes, there are some very wealthy folks from Grosse Pointe, etc., but also from Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Traverse City. The old money stayed.
3. Michigan has a large, with many full pay, international student population.
4. Michigan has lots of Federal and industry research money coming in.
5. There are a few celeb kids (kids of Obama, Madonna, Eminem, Kelly Ripa, Jake Tapper, etc.) but of course not all stay (although I heard Eminem's kid was a very good student).

The place thus has more like an NE/California (but not the weather!) vibe than most of surrounding area because of the OOS folks. And many of the in-state folks are pretty wealthy.

Virginia

1. Jefferson and his crowd were pretty rich. Rich Southerners have sent their kids to Charlottesville for generations. UVA has its own resort and polo club!
2. Charlottesville has some pretty high net worth people in the surrounding countryside.
3. UVA has been popular with the NE prep school and day school crowd also for generations. UVA admissions has a couple of regional reps who focus on this market.
4. There are Asians, but they are more likely to be in-state folks (like us). UVA has fewer international students but is looking to increase them.
5. UVA for a long time gave cheap in-state tuition for grad school to folks who lived in Virginia for a year and paid taxes. A lot of value-minded Ivy grads worked in DC but lived in Arlington and Alexandria to get in-state tuition for law or business school. This ended a while ago, though. But these folks are still loyal to UVA.
6. UVA acts more like a private school in terms of parent communications and overall attitude. Michigan really felt like the massive public school that it is.

UVA thus feels more WASPy, old money than Michigan. But it still feels very wealthy indeed.

I live there and this is not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Until you have been at an Ivy or Georgetown, etc, you have not seen extreme wealth …

But I went to nyu and usc so yes I have, lol.

What about all the kids from families with private jets and multiple homes I met at University of Texas and friends at SMU? There is extreme wealth outside of the Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UMich was a haven for top Jewish students, many of whom went on to build wealth, at a time when the Ivies limited their acceptance. This helped build not only its academic reputation plus its connection to the NYC area. My in-state UMich grad husband made friends with NYC area kids and moved East after graduation, where he could watch Big 10 games at a Michigan bar on the UWS of NYC.

This is it. 1) UVA and Mich are probably the most expensive OOS COA for publics in the country.

2) "Jew of M" pulls wealthy OOS Jewish kids from NY and LA.

Wrong that honor goes to UCLA, folliwed closely by Berkeley

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of wealthy boarding school kids at UVA, according to our NOVA daughter.

Yes, there are a lot of boarding school kids at UVa. Among my friends were folks who went to St. Paul's, Philips Exeter, Lawrenceville, Hotchkiss, Choate, Deerfield Academy, and Woodberry Forest -- as well as Wellington (in England) and TASIS (in Switzerland).

I first learned of UVA from The Preppy Handbook.

1980. You are old

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NOVA parent with DCs at both Michigan and UVA (and also a Michigan and Ivy alum), offering some subjective opinions on the two schools.

Michigan

1. As discussed, Michigan was open to admitting Jews and later Asians who were blocked from the Ivies. Many of these folks were full pay, and their families became loyal to the school.
2. Yes, there are some very wealthy folks from Grosse Pointe, etc., but also from Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Traverse City. The old money stayed.
3. Michigan has a large, with many full pay, international student population.
4. Michigan has lots of Federal and industry research money coming in.
5. There are a few celeb kids (kids of Obama, Madonna, Eminem, Kelly Ripa, Jake Tapper, etc.) but of course not all stay (although I heard Eminem's kid was a very good student).

The place thus has more like an NE/California (but not the weather!) vibe than most of surrounding area because of the OOS folks. And many of the in-state folks are pretty wealthy.

Virginia

1. Jefferson and his crowd were pretty rich. Rich Southerners have sent their kids to Charlottesville for generations. UVA has its own resort and polo club!
2. Charlottesville has some pretty high net worth people in the surrounding countryside.
3. UVA has been popular with the NE prep school and day school crowd also for generations. UVA admissions has a couple of regional reps who focus on this market.
4. There are Asians, but they are more likely to be in-state folks (like us). UVA has fewer international students but is looking to increase them.
5. UVA for a long time gave cheap in-state tuition for grad school to folks who lived in Virginia for a year and paid taxes. A lot of value-minded Ivy grads worked in DC but lived in Arlington and Alexandria to get in-state tuition for law or business school. This ended a while ago, though. But these folks are still loyal to UVA.
6. UVA acts more like a private school in terms of parent communications and overall attitude. Michigan really felt like the massive public school that it is.

UVA thus feels more WASPy, old money than Michigan. But it still feels very wealthy indeed.

I live there and this is not true.

"Boar's Head Resort is owned and operated by the University of Virginia Foundation. "

https://www.boarsheadresort.com/our-resort/university-of-virginia

Polo club is not owned by UVA itself but closely affiliated with UVA. https://www.vapolo.org/

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Just to compare public universities (from the NYT):

Students from top 1% of families

Michigan 9.3%
Virginia 8.5%
Illinois 2.5%
Penn State 2.3%
Wisconsin 1.7%

Students from top 10% of families

[b]Michigan 49%
Virginia 49%
Illinois 30%
Penn State 27%
Wisconsin 19%[/b][/quote]

Where are you getting the top 10% number?[/quote]

It is in the Chetty/NYT data. But that shows the difference may be more related to state of Virginia demographics and attendance patterns than UVA itself. The top 10% in family income numbers are:

W&M 56%, UVA 49%, JMU 45%, VMI 43%, UMW 41%, VT 37%, CNU 35%, GMU 31%. All of these are higher than Illinois, Penn State, and Wisconsin.

Note that this information is a few years old. USNWR's new ranking criteria have caused schools to push hard to enroll more Pell students, which may have changed the demographics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of wealthy boarding school kids at UVA, according to our NOVA daughter.

Yes, there are a lot of boarding school kids at UVa. Among my friends were folks who went to St. Paul's, Philips Exeter, Lawrenceville, Hotchkiss, Choate, Deerfield Academy, and Woodberry Forest -- as well as Wellington (in England) and TASIS (in Switzerland).

I first learned of UVA from The Preppy Handbook.

1980. You are old

Yes. That's obvious. My point is the association is long-term.