MCPS boasts about 54.9% 3rd ELA proficiency rate in latest MCAP results

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another look at MCAP results from another source: https://wtop.com/maryland/2024/08/maryland-test-results-show-small-gains-nagging-achievement-gaps-among-demographic-groups/

MCPS claims we're beating state averages, which I guess might be true, but when you roll up all the grade levels and the results, here's how things shake out by Math:



Carroll, Worcester and Howard County Public Schools outperformed MCPS in math.



For ELA, it's worse. Harford, Queen Anne's, Frederick, Calvert, Howard, Carroll, Worcester all outperformed MCPS in ELA.

Well that test is seriously flawed if no jurisdiction can score over 50% on the math portion.
Even on the ELA, the scores are not great for anyone.
Something is not right with that test.

Or maybe our system is not doing its job? The MCAP is not the only proof point that says our kids are not reading and doing math at proficiency levels that previous generations were capable of doing.

When you said "our system ", what are referring to? Because no jurisdiction is "doing is job", no one is getting 50% on the math and some are barely making the grade on the ELA.
It tells me that it's not the jurisdictions, but the test to be evaluated.

When I said the system, I was talking about MCPS in particular. MCPS has specific failures and shortcomings that this test is highlighting.

The bigger system, which is the MSDE and all of our school systems in aggregate (which also includes MCPS), is also failing. Which is why the the MD State Superintendent Carey Wright said she wants to re-examine MSDE's school report cards because the state's schools can't be as good as they're claiming with these levels of proficiencies.

The state of public education has been failing for a long time now. We're just now catching on to that fact.

To your last sentence: some of us have suspected it for awhile. I remember when the Hopkins audit on MCPS came out in 2018. Some of us on here were ringing alarm bells. Most of you dismissed it.

You know what, you're right. I forgot about the 2018 audit. MCPS just gets away with this aura of quality because of its historical reputation, but the truth is the decline has been in the making for at least a decade. And of course the pandemic only worsened the situation.

Can you link that report or elaborate on the BLUF? My kid was too young for me to have dug into that data (although after testing Mcps for one year we quickly moved onto a private...so don't disagree that the ship is sinking. Just curious what the pre covid data looked like).

Here it is!

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/curriculum/integrated/executivesummarymcps.pdf

It was a big reason we also opted for private.

And before people start jumping on us for being on this thread: the state of MCPS is relevant to everyone.

Thank you for linking to the original, PP.

To me, this is the most damning statement:

The instrument of analysis was an MCPS-appropriate version of the Student Work Analysis Tool that is part of Student Achievement Partners’ Instructional Practice Toolkit (IPT). In total, the team reviewed 36 different assignments and 530 student work samples in math, and 34 assignments and 455 student work samples in ELA. Overall, the student work samples indicate a misalignment between the learning standards and most student assignments.

Math:
- Student work samples did not consistently show mastery of the learning standard. Student work samples show that fewer than a third of students master their assignments in either ELA or math, although mastery in mathematics is higher than in ELA.
- In K through 2nd-grade math, student work samples did not consistently show full or close to full mastery of the targeted standard.

ELA:
- ELA lessons did not consistently show alignment to the targeted standard. In the analysis of student work samples, fewer than a quarter of students show complete mastery of the assignments’ targeted standards.
- In the majority of student work samples analyzed, students did not consistently show mastery in the comprehension of their texts.

So for posters who want to claim that the MCAP is flawed, how can that be the case when the MCAP is revealing what the Hopkins audit revealed in 2018, which is that the system is not producing students who can meet district, state or federal standards? Cut the crap. MCPS has failed in its mission.

Huh?
The report was about C2.0 and it found that it was deficient, specifically for certain groups. None of that nonsense you're babbling out.

Look. Whether it's C2.0, MCAP, the SAT or MAP, MCPS consistently is NOT educating kids to ANY OF THESE STANDARDS.

The problem is MCPS. It's the system. Not the test or the standard. WAKE UP.

You're clearly a troll, as you have no idea of what you're talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another look at MCAP results from another source: https://wtop.com/maryland/2024/08/maryland-test-results-show-small-gains-nagging-achievement-gaps-among-demographic-groups/

MCPS claims we're beating state averages, which I guess might be true, but when you roll up all the grade levels and the results, here's how things shake out by Math:



Carroll, Worcester and Howard County Public Schools outperformed MCPS in math.



For ELA, it's worse. Harford, Queen Anne's, Frederick, Calvert, Howard, Carroll, Worcester all outperformed MCPS in ELA.

Well that test is seriously flawed if no jurisdiction can score over 50% on the math portion.
Even on the ELA, the scores are not great for anyone.
Something is not right with that test.

Or maybe our system is not doing its job? The MCAP is not the only proof point that says our kids are not reading and doing math at proficiency levels that previous generations were capable of doing.

When you said "our system ", what are referring to? Because no jurisdiction is "doing is job", no one is getting 50% on the math and some are barely making the grade on the ELA.
It tells me that it's not the jurisdictions, but the test to be evaluated.

When I said the system, I was talking about MCPS in particular. MCPS has specific failures and shortcomings that this test is highlighting.

The bigger system, which is the MSDE and all of our school systems in aggregate (which also includes MCPS), is also failing. Which is why the the MD State Superintendent Carey Wright said she wants to re-examine MSDE's school report cards because the state's schools can't be as good as they're claiming with these levels of proficiencies.

The state of public education has been failing for a long time now. We're just now catching on to that fact.

Everybody is falling that test, not just MCPS.
It's the test.

This is a forum focused on MCPS. The Superintendent needs to focus on how MCPS responds to the MCAP results.

The State Superintendent needs to worry about the fact that ALL of her LEAs are not meeting MCAP standards, and she has already made it clear she will dig into that and expects her LEAs (which MCPS) to be her partners in getting to the root of the poor performance. But that doesn't absolve MCPS from figuring out its portion of the problem.

When will you hold MCPS accountable for being the hot mess that it is?

Huh????
Do you know what you're talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another look at MCAP results from another source: https://wtop.com/maryland/2024/08/maryland-test-results-show-small-gains-nagging-achievement-gaps-among-demographic-groups/

MCPS claims we're beating state averages, which I guess might be true, but when you roll up all the grade levels and the results, here's how things shake out by Math:



Carroll, Worcester and Howard County Public Schools outperformed MCPS in math.



For ELA, it's worse. Harford, Queen Anne's, Frederick, Calvert, Howard, Carroll, Worcester all outperformed MCPS in ELA.

Well that test is seriously flawed if no jurisdiction can score over 50% on the math portion.
Even on the ELA, the scores are not great for anyone.
Something is not right with that test.

Or maybe our system is not doing its job? The MCAP is not the only proof point that says our kids are not reading and doing math at proficiency levels that previous generations were capable of doing.

When you said "our system ", what are referring to? Because no jurisdiction is "doing is job", no one is getting 50% on the math and some are barely making the grade on the ELA.
It tells me that it's not the jurisdictions, but the test to be evaluated.

When I said the system, I was talking about MCPS in particular. MCPS has specific failures and shortcomings that this test is highlighting.

The bigger system, which is the MSDE and all of our school systems in aggregate (which also includes MCPS), is also failing. Which is why the the MD State Superintendent Carey Wright said she wants to re-examine MSDE's school report cards because the state's schools can't be as good as they're claiming with these levels of proficiencies.

The state of public education has been failing for a long time now. We're just now catching on to that fact.

To your last sentence: some of us have suspected it for awhile. I remember when the Hopkins audit on MCPS came out in 2018. Some of us on here were ringing alarm bells. Most of you dismissed it.

You know what, you're right. I forgot about the 2018 audit. MCPS just gets away with this aura of quality because of its historical reputation, but the truth is the decline has been in the making for at least a decade. And of course the pandemic only worsened the situation.

Can you link that report or elaborate on the BLUF? My kid was too young for me to have dug into that data (although after testing Mcps for one year we quickly moved onto a private...so don't disagree that the ship is sinking. Just curious what the pre covid data looked like).

Here it is!

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/curriculum/integrated/executivesummarymcps.pdf

It was a big reason we also opted for private.

And before people start jumping on us for being on this thread: the state of MCPS is relevant to everyone.

Thank you for linking to the original, PP.

To me, this is the most damning statement:

The instrument of analysis was an MCPS-appropriate version of the Student Work Analysis Tool that is part of Student Achievement Partners’ Instructional Practice Toolkit (IPT). In total, the team reviewed 36 different assignments and 530 student work samples in math, and 34 assignments and 455 student work samples in ELA. Overall, the student work samples indicate a misalignment between the learning standards and most student assignments.

Math:
- Student work samples did not consistently show mastery of the learning standard. Student work samples show that fewer than a third of students master their assignments in either ELA or math, although mastery in mathematics is higher than in ELA.
- In K through 2nd-grade math, student work samples did not consistently show full or close to full mastery of the targeted standard.

ELA:
- ELA lessons did not consistently show alignment to the targeted standard. In the analysis of student work samples, fewer than a quarter of students show complete mastery of the assignments’ targeted standards.
- In the majority of student work samples analyzed, students did not consistently show mastery in the comprehension of their texts.

So for posters who want to claim that the MCAP is flawed, how can that be the case when the MCAP is revealing what the Hopkins audit revealed in 2018, which is that the system is not producing students who can meet district, state or federal standards? Cut the crap. MCPS has failed in its mission.

Huh?
The report was about C2.0 and it found that it was deficient, specifically for certain groups. None of that nonsense you're babbling out.

Look. Whether it's C2.0, MCAP, the SAT or MAP, MCPS consistently is NOT educating kids to ANY OF THESE STANDARDS.

The problem is MCPS. It's the system. Not the test or the standard. WAKE UP.

Exactly, people keep making all kids of excuses, but no one is willing or able to fix it.

I really don't understand what they gain from ignoring the problem or trying to gaslight the rest of us into believing there isn't a problem with MCPS. It's strange and twisted.

[Anonymous]

It has always been parenting that results in proficiency. No schools or teachers. High performing schools just have more parents involved in their child's education. Schools and teachers take credit but it's always been the parents.

So declining school performance just means that we have decline in parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It has always been parenting that results in proficiency. No schools or teachers. High performing schools just have more parents involved in their child's education. Schools and teachers take credit but it's always been the parents.

So declining school performance just means that we have decline in parenting.

Here we go again. Might as well just homeschool your kids then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It has always been parenting that results in proficiency. No schools or teachers. High performing schools just have more parents involved in their child's education. Schools and teachers take credit but it's always been the parents.

So declining school performance just means that we have decline in parenting.

So you'll be sending your kid to the worst-performing school in MCPS to prove this theory out, right?

And if parenting is 100% responsible for proficiency, why do we even have schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It has always been parenting that results in proficiency. No schools or teachers. High performing schools just have more parents involved in their child's education. Schools and teachers take credit but it's always been the parents.

So declining school performance just means that we have decline in parenting.

Here we go again. Might as well just homeschool your kids then.

Seriously. Does the PP realize they are arguing that schools have zero value?

[Anonymous]

If you read a story with any kid in preschool and kindergarten before bedtime, they will be reading children's books on their own in first grade.

That's all it takes. It's a very small 15 minutes per day investment.

Same with math spend 15 minutes per day with your kid doing math and they will be way ahead.

[Anonymous]

I’ve got three kids in McPS that have been at 5 different schools over 13 years. I think McPS has generally done a great job although there’s some unevenness and I wish the English curriculum was different. My kids always score high proficient or whatever the thing above that is.
But I also recognize we are upper income educated parents who speak English as our first language. For the most part, I think McPS is doing pretty well with kids like ours. But there are a ton of low income and ESL families in McPS and I’m not surprised they aren’t reaching proficiency.
I also think the tests aren’t well designed so they overstate the problem a bit. My kids are really top students so the fact that they don’t always get the top category suggests to me that the test is not fully recognizing their level off proficiency.

[Anonymous]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but if they don't get the top category then they are not top students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you read a story with any kid in preschool and kindergarten before bedtime, they will be reading children's books on their own in first grade.

That's all it takes. It's a very small 15 minutes per day investment.

Same with math spend 15 minutes per day with your kid doing math and they will be way ahead.

You’re delusional.

For one, 20% of kids have dyslexia. No amount of reading to them will teach them to read. They need intensive, systematic phonics-based reading instruction.

Another roughly 60% of kids don’t have dyslexia but still need intentional reading instruction.

It’s rare for kids to just pick up reading by osmosis the way you’re describing. It’s a myth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you read a story with any kid in preschool and kindergarten before bedtime, they will be reading children's books on their own in first grade.

That's all it takes. It's a very small 15 minutes per day investment.

Same with math spend 15 minutes per day with your kid doing math and they will be way ahead.

You’re delusional.

For one, 20% of kids have dyslexia. No amount of reading to them will teach them to read. They need intensive, systematic phonics-based reading instruction.

Another roughly 60% of kids don’t have dyslexia but still need intentional reading instruction.

It’s rare for kids to just pick up reading by osmosis the way you’re describing. It’s a myth.

PP needs to watch the documentary Right to Read: https://www.therighttoreadfilm.org/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve got three kids in McPS that have been at 5 different schools over 13 years. I think McPS has generally done a great job although there’s some unevenness and I wish the English curriculum was different. My kids always score high proficient or whatever the thing above that is.
But I also recognize we are upper income educated parents who speak English as our first language. For the most part, I think McPS is doing pretty well with kids like ours. But there are a ton of low income and ESL families in McPS and I’m not surprised they aren’t reaching proficiency.
I also think the tests aren’t well designed so they overstate the problem a bit. My kids are really top students so the fact that they don’t always get the top category suggests to me that the test is not fully recognizing their level off proficiency.

Read about the opportunity myth. Most MCPS students are fulfilling the expectations of their classes. The problem is the standards are so low that fulfilling those expectations and getting good grades doesn’t prepare them for college or beyond.

And it isn’t just the poor kids who aren’t getting good instruction. So you can’t just sit there feeling good that your white kids are fine.

Read the article in Bethesda Magazine. It talks about how most kids at schools at ALL socioeconomic levels aren’t getting rigorous enough work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you read a story with any kid in preschool and kindergarten before bedtime, they will be reading children's books on their own in first grade.

That's all it takes. It's a very small 15 minutes per day investment.

Same with math spend 15 minutes per day with your kid doing math and they will be way ahead.

You’re delusional.

For one, 20% of kids have dyslexia. No amount of reading to them will teach them to read. They need intensive, systematic phonics-based reading instruction.

Another roughly 60% of kids don’t have dyslexia but still need intentional reading instruction.

It’s rare for kids to just pick up reading by osmosis the way you’re describing. It’s a myth.

It's not osmosis. You read 15 minutes per day and then in Kindergarten start having the kid read you those 2-3 letter word books like Bob Books.

Nobody can complain about schools unless they are doing this minimum amount of work with their kids at home daily.

And 20% of kids do not have dyslexia. NIH says 5%. The only source that says 20% are companues trying to sell services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you read a story with any kid in preschool and kindergarten before bedtime, they will be reading children's books on their own in first grade.

That's all it takes. It's a very small 15 minutes per day investment.

Same with math spend 15 minutes per day with your kid doing math and they will be way ahead.

You’re delusional.

For one, 20% of kids have dyslexia. No amount of reading to them will teach them to read. They need intensive, systematic phonics-based reading instruction.

Another roughly 60% of kids don’t have dyslexia but still need intentional reading instruction.

It’s rare for kids to just pick up reading by osmosis the way you’re describing. It’s a myth.

It's not osmosis. You read 15 minutes per day and then in Kindergarten start having the kid read you those 2-3 letter word books like Bob Books.

Nobody can complain about schools unless they are doing this minimum amount of work with their kids at home daily.

And 20% of kids do not have dyslexia. NIH says 5%. The only source that says 20% are companues trying to sell services.

The latest research is from Yale: https://dyslexia.yale.edu/dyslexia/dyslexia-faq/

And yes — what you’re describing is osmosis. The kid will apparently internalize what you’re reading, such that they’ll be able read Bob Books when they’re in kindergarten.

Guess what? My kid couldn’t do that. Many smart kids can’t do that. They needed systematic reading instruction to learn to read.

This is well known. Why are you fighting it?