Ed1 prelaw

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP- I wonder if you or your spouse are "Big Law"? Or how she even knows what that is at her age? Have her do an internship at a top law firm even if it is unpaid admin work to see what the culture is like.

DH was in Big Law long enough to pay off some of law school but it is a tough road. The culture is not for everyone. Many partners were grossly overweight and always divorced. Women were expected not to have kids and given bad assignments if they did. I know it has improved somewhat in recent years but not completely.

So true. In my practice group at a T10 Vault firm, the women partners were either unmarried and childless, married to a firm client (easiest way to get a huge book), or occasionally married to another partner who had some power at the firm. The secret though is that most lawyers can pay off their loans and have a much better life and also a good lifestyle without being at BigLaw. I make a lot more money at a smaller boutique firm with lower overhead than I made as a mid-level associate at BigLaw. Those multiple offices, fancy firm retreats, and summer associate programs are extremely expensive!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP- I wonder if you or your spouse are "Big Law"? Or how she even knows what that is at her age? Have her do an internship at a top law firm even if it is unpaid admin work to see what the culture is like.

DH was in Big Law long enough to pay off some of law school but it is a tough road. The culture is not for everyone. Many partners were grossly overweight and always divorced. Women were expected not to have kids and given bad assignments if they did. I know it has improved somewhat in recent years but not completely.

Op here. Neither, I'm in finance and DH is a surgeon. It definitely is a known path amongst her friends, especially with alum who come back to her school. That is really concerning about the second part but sadly is not uncommon for most career paths with quick work environments.

[Anonymous]

Doesn't matter. Maybe the Ivy label gives a little oomph to the app. What matters are top GPA and Top LSAT scores.

[Anonymous]

Is biglaw really the life you want for your child? DH is a partner in biglaw and would hate for either of our 2 kids to go into biglaw. DC has gone on occasion to DH’s office and says the lawyers just look lifeless. Biglaw means canceling vacations, 80 hour workweeks, missed events, etc. DH can barely make it to a doctor’s appointment sometimes. The firm basically owns you, even as a partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is biglaw really the life you want for your child? DH is a partner in biglaw and would hate for either of our 2 kids to go into biglaw. DC has gone on occasion to DH’s office and says the lawyers just look lifeless. Biglaw means canceling vacations, 80 hour workweeks, missed events, etc. DH can barely make it to a doctor’s appointment sometimes. The firm basically owns you, even as a partner.

I've never seen this energy for people's children who want to go into "business" at top school aka IB with 100 hour workweeks. If biglaw is her goal, I'm here to support her. She is a hard worker and a bit on the neurotic type, and I know she can achieve what she wants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP- I wonder if you or your spouse are "Big Law"? Or how she even knows what that is at her age? Have her do an internship at a top law firm even if it is unpaid admin work to see what the culture is like.

DH was in Big Law long enough to pay off some of law school but it is a tough road. The culture is not for everyone. Many partners were grossly overweight and always divorced. Women were expected not to have kids and given bad assignments if they did. I know it has improved somewhat in recent years but not completely.

Op here. Neither, I'm in finance and DH is a surgeon. It definitely is a known path amongst her friends, especially with alum who come back to her school. That is really concerning about the second part but sadly is not uncommon for most career paths with quick work environments.

Your family has money due to your and your husbands' careers. I went into BigLaw because I basically have to support my sister and my in-laws and my aunt financially for life. If you have the means to pay for part of those massive college/law school loans, then your DD has options. I'm sure somewhere between 2 and 5 years in BigLaw would be decent training - I just didn't want you (or your daughter) to think of BigLaw as some kind of dream job because it really isn't. Most people, especially women lawyers, are not treated well and live under constant stress. Do your husband's patients call or text them on their cell phones all hours of the day and night, on weekends and vacations? My clients do and have no apologies about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP- I wonder if you or your spouse are "Big Law"? Or how she even knows what that is at her age? Have her do an internship at a top law firm even if it is unpaid admin work to see what the culture is like.

DH was in Big Law long enough to pay off some of law school but it is a tough road. The culture is not for everyone. Many partners were grossly overweight and always divorced. Women were expected not to have kids and given bad assignments if they did. I know it has improved somewhat in recent years but not completely.

Op here. Neither, I'm in finance and DH is a surgeon. It definitely is a known path amongst her friends, especially with alum who come back to her school. That is really concerning about the second part but sadly is not uncommon for most career paths with quick work environments.

Your family has money due to your and your husbands' careers. I went into BigLaw because I basically have to support my sister and my in-laws and my aunt financially for life. If you have the means to pay for part of those massive college/law school loans, then your DD has options. I'm sure somewhere between 2 and 5 years in BigLaw would be decent training - I just didn't want you (or your daughter) to think of BigLaw as some kind of dream job because it really isn't. Most people, especially women lawyers, are not treated well and live under constant stress. Do your husband's patients call or text them on their cell phones all hours of the day and night, on weekends and vacations? My clients do and have no apologies about it.

Agree that it sounds like your daughter would have the financial freedom to leave after a few years. Many don't because they take on large debt and/or have family obligations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is biglaw really the life you want for your child? DH is a partner in biglaw and would hate for either of our 2 kids to go into biglaw. DC has gone on occasion to DH’s office and says the lawyers just look lifeless. Biglaw means canceling vacations, 80 hour workweeks, missed events, etc. DH can barely make it to a doctor’s appointment sometimes. The firm basically owns you, even as a partner.

I've never seen this energy for people's children who want to go into "business" at top school aka IB with 100 hour workweeks. If biglaw is her goal, I'm here to support her. She is a hard worker and a bit on the neurotic type, and I know she can achieve what she wants.

Because business has become more flexible. I am Mba in finance and DH is attorney. Even in my early years, I could flex my hours enough to take a vacation. DH had to work EVERY SAT and hit a billable hours requirement. I hear things have eased a bit but if your daughter comes from a wealthy family she has SO many better options!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is biglaw really the life you want for your child? DH is a partner in biglaw and would hate for either of our 2 kids to go into biglaw. DC has gone on occasion to DH’s office and says the lawyers just look lifeless. Biglaw means canceling vacations, 80 hour workweeks, missed events, etc. DH can barely make it to a doctor’s appointment sometimes. The firm basically owns you, even as a partner.

I've never seen this energy for people's children who want to go into "business" at top school aka IB with 100 hour workweeks. If biglaw is her goal, I'm here to support her. She is a hard worker and a bit on the neurotic type, and I know she can achieve what she wants.

Agree! DH was senior military, missed births, funerals, most of his kids’s lives, we lived apart for several years, his phone rang at 4:00 am and he worked 7 days a week and holidays for decades- for a lot less money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of that matters. What matters is that she have a 4.0 gpa, a 180 LSAT and take a few years off in between to do some kind of work that makes her a little different than the other thousands of perfect scores they’ll get. Having that unique job in South Dakota or in the military or peace corps would help too. And there’s still no guarantee.

Fewer than a hundred 180 scores each year. The LSAT isn’t the SAT.

Well 175 won’t get you into Yale.

Actually 175 is the media score for 2023 YLS admits. It won’t get you in alone but that’s a very competitive score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of that matters. What matters is that she have a 4.0 gpa, a 180 LSAT and take a few years off in between to do some kind of work that makes her a little different than the other thousands of perfect scores they’ll get. Having that unique job in South Dakota or in the military or peace corps would help too. And there’s still no guarantee.

Fewer than a hundred 180 scores each year. The LSAT isn’t the SAT.

Well 175 won’t get you into Yale.

Actually 175 is the media score for 2023 YLS admits. It won’t get you in alone but that’s a very competitive score.

Median scores don’t work for anyone without a hook too. That’s been explained several times here and OP has been warned that is not enough for a 21 year old coming straight from undergrad. I know a recent 4.0/178 rejected from Harvard and Duke. And a 3.9/174 rejected at Northwestern,NYU, and Wash St Louis, and waitlisted at Michigan and UVA.

Those of you who cling to this idea that stats get you in are giving new grads terrible advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no right choice. She can major in anything from English to Engineering and go to Law School. I went to U of Penn Law School and members of my class came from all over and majored in everything.

Yes. I remember at my law school orientation they went over how many states and countries we were from, and named all of our undergrad majors, to show us what a diverse class we were with regard to geographic background and majors.

THIS! I went to Stanford Law and laugh at these threads every time. Admissions is bored silly with the “prelaw” poly sci Ivy League-type undergrad. What a boring class it would be if everyone had followed that path. I was a foreign language major at a school no DCUM poster would find impressive. No hooks. Be interesting and genuinely passionate about your academics whereever you study. Don’t be a sheep.

And you probably attended decades ago. Law school admissions has changed significantly even in the last five years. Work experience matters greatly. There is lots of grade inflation now. The LSAT is easier than when you took it. Prestige of undergrad matters more for T14 now. You do need a hook besides your GPA and LSAT.

Oh, please. Work experience has always mattered to Stanford. And there are only 180 spots per class - do you really think they are going to fill them with prelaw majors from the same 14 schools? They work to build an eclectic, diverse, and interesting class. Your hook is to stand out and bring some unique perspective to that class — the GPA and LSAT merely demonstrate that you are capable of doing the work. This is nothing new.

Stanford does take students straight from college based on working directly with law applicants recently, which you have not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of that matters. What matters is that she have a 4.0 gpa, a 180 LSAT and take a few years off in between to do some kind of work that makes her a little different than the other thousands of perfect scores they’ll get. Having that unique job in South Dakota or in the military or peace corps would help too. And there’s still no guarantee.

Fewer than a hundred 180 scores each year. The LSAT isn’t the SAT.

Well 175 won’t get you into Yale.

Actually 175 is the media score for 2023 YLS admits. It won’t get you in alone but that’s a very competitive score.

Median scores don’t work for anyone without a hook too. That’s been explained several times here and OP has been warned that is not enough for a 21 year old coming straight from undergrad. I know a recent 4.0/178 rejected from Harvard and Duke. And a 3.9/174 rejected at Northwestern,NYU, and Wash St Louis, and waitlisted at Michigan and UVA.

Those of you who cling to this idea that stats get you in are giving new grads terrible advice.

Yes, there are so many dinosaurs on this thread who went to law school in the last century. College admissions to a top school is very unpredictable now, and top law schools have so many applicants with 4.0 grades and high LSAT scores; they want to see more work experience overall and dedication to law school long term, not people who flame out because they don't know what they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of that matters. What matters is that she have a 4.0 gpa, a 180 LSAT and take a few years off in between to do some kind of work that makes her a little different than the other thousands of perfect scores they’ll get. Having that unique job in South Dakota or in the military or peace corps would help too. And there’s still no guarantee.

Fewer than a hundred 180 scores each year. The LSAT isn’t the SAT.

Well 175 won’t get you into Yale.

Actually 175 is the media score for 2023 YLS admits. It won’t get you in alone but that’s a very competitive score.

Median scores don’t work for anyone without a hook too. That’s been explained several times here and OP has been warned that is not enough for a 21 year old coming straight from undergrad. I know a recent 4.0/178 rejected from Harvard and Duke. And a 3.9/174 rejected at Northwestern,NYU, and Wash St Louis, and waitlisted at Michigan and UVA.

Those of you who cling to this idea that stats get you in are giving new grads terrible advice.

And where did each of your anecdotes end up?

[Anonymous]

It sounds like she has already made her choice. Let her do ED1 to the undergrad she likes.