Incentives to Keep Teachers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should the BOE and County Council do to keep teachers?

I’d say:
No income tax for any teacher after x#of years
No property tax for teachers who choose to live in MC after 5 years within county and x#years of teaching

What else?

As a parent in MCPS with so many behavior issues ( incl but not limited to ADHD), a teacher needs a TA in class. This can be someone who may only have a HS diploma, but is there to deal with kids that are misbehaving, so the teacher can focus on teaching the rest of the class. So much time in my child’s middle school is spent on dealing with the same half dozen kids ( in an entire day, different classes ) that are not listening, being obnoxious or disrupting class for other reasons.

Private schools would not tolerate these behaviors- so why are public schools tolerating it? It is so disruptive for children who want to study and learn. It is not the teachers fault - their hands are tied by what the admin will or will not do.

We need TAs for the students who need help but we also need bouncers to get rid of the ones who don't want to learn. It's my dream to have a sweep of these students like in the movie Lean on Me. Get rid of them. Someone else (not the teachers) can offer alternatives for them but they need to be removed from the gen ed classroom.

Unfortunately, in public schools, you cannot get rid of students , per se. That is another big issue. I think having consequences where the child disrupting needs parents to pick them up- if it happens regularly, mandate psych eval and then go from there.

My DC 14 told me the other day that there are a couple of students that get detention / have to eat lunch with the VP every single day- doesn’t change a thing- behavior is still the same. So the consequences currently being implanted are not effective. The Board with parent input need to find more consistent and different consequences for disruptive behavior. Also, imo, it needs to be the same all across MCPS- no school and principal dependent.

But there are zero expectations of parents. There is no expectation that they answer the phone when admin calls them about their child’s behavior. If I had a time for every pissed off parents screaming, “He’s not my problem when he’s at school!” “Stop calling me!”

But it is the school's responsibility to provide services necessary to manage a student's disability. If a disruptive behavior is a manifestation of a disability, then the school needs to provide additional supportive services. They can't simply send the student home, although sometimes they try.

If parents won’t sign an IEP, there isn’t that much that can be done. We can’t even send our students to the mental health counselor without parent permission.

An IEP isn't necessary to provide many supports.

These kids desperately need mental health counseling. That won’t happen without parent approval.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should the BOE and County Council do to keep teachers?

I’d say:
No income tax for any teacher after x#of years
No property tax for teachers who choose to live in MC after 5 years within county and x#years of teaching

What else?

As a parent in MCPS with so many behavior issues ( incl but not limited to ADHD), a teacher needs a TA in class. This can be someone who may only have a HS diploma, but is there to deal with kids that are misbehaving, so the teacher can focus on teaching the rest of the class. So much time in my child’s middle school is spent on dealing with the same half dozen kids ( in an entire day, different classes ) that are not listening, being obnoxious or disrupting class for other reasons.

Private schools would not tolerate these behaviors- so why are public schools tolerating it? It is so disruptive for children who want to study and learn. It is not the teachers fault - their hands are tied by what the admin will or will not do.

We need TAs for the students who need help but we also need bouncers to get rid of the ones who don't want to learn. It's my dream to have a sweep of these students like in the movie Lean on Me. Get rid of them. Someone else (not the teachers) can offer alternatives for them but they need to be removed from the gen ed classroom.

Unfortunately, in public schools, you cannot get rid of students , per se. That is another big issue. I think having consequences where the child disrupting needs parents to pick them up- if it happens regularly, mandate psych eval and then go from there.

My DC 14 told me the other day that there are a couple of students that get detention / have to eat lunch with the VP every single day- doesn’t change a thing- behavior is still the same. So the consequences currently being implanted are not effective. The Board with parent input need to find more consistent and different consequences for disruptive behavior. Also, imo, it needs to be the same all across MCPS- no school and principal dependent.

But there are zero expectations of parents. There is no expectation that they answer the phone when admin calls them about their child’s behavior. If I had a time for every pissed off parents screaming, “He’s not my problem when he’s at school!” “Stop calling me!”

But it is the school's responsibility to provide services necessary to manage a student's disability. If a disruptive behavior is a manifestation of a disability, then the school needs to provide additional supportive services. They can't simply send the student home, although sometimes they try.

If parents won’t sign an IEP, there isn’t that much that can be done. We can’t even send our students to the mental health counselor without parent permission.

An IEP isn't necessary to provide many supports.

These kids desperately need mental health counseling. That won’t happen without parent approval.

Does MCPS even do that?

Regardless, you don't need an IEP for paraeducator support or classroom accommodations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get rid of woke policies that put teacher and students in danger and make teaching nearly impossible.

"Woke" - maga red meat!

I'm a liberal Democrat. Wokeness is as far from liberalism as liberalism is from MAGA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should the BOE and County Council do to keep teachers?

I’d say:
No income tax for any teacher after x#of years
No property tax for teachers who choose to live in MC after 5 years within county and x#years of teaching

What else?

As a parent in MCPS with so many behavior issues ( incl but not limited to ADHD), a teacher needs a TA in class. This can be someone who may only have a HS diploma, but is there to deal with kids that are misbehaving, so the teacher can focus on teaching the rest of the class. So much time in my child’s middle school is spent on dealing with the same half dozen kids ( in an entire day, different classes ) that are not listening, being obnoxious or disrupting class for other reasons.

Private schools would not tolerate these behaviors- so why are public schools tolerating it? It is so disruptive for children who want to study and learn. It is not the teachers fault - their hands are tied by what the admin will or will not do.

We need TAs for the students who need help but we also need bouncers to get rid of the ones who don't want to learn. It's my dream to have a sweep of these students like in the movie Lean on Me. Get rid of them. Someone else (not the teachers) can offer alternatives for them but they need to be removed from the gen ed classroom.

Unfortunately, in public schools, you cannot get rid of students , per se. That is another big issue. I think having consequences where the child disrupting needs parents to pick them up- if it happens regularly, mandate psych eval and then go from there.

My DC 14 told me the other day that there are a couple of students that get detention / have to eat lunch with the VP every single day- doesn’t change a thing- behavior is still the same. So the consequences currently being implanted are not effective. The Board with parent input need to find more consistent and different consequences for disruptive behavior. Also, imo, it needs to be the same all across MCPS- no school and principal dependent.

But there are zero expectations of parents. There is no expectation that they answer the phone when admin calls them about their child’s behavior. If I had a time for every pissed off parents screaming, “He’s not my problem when he’s at school!” “Stop calling me!”

But it is the school's responsibility to provide services necessary to manage a student's disability. If a disruptive behavior is a manifestation of a disability, then the school needs to provide additional supportive services. They can't simply send the student home, although sometimes they try.

The schools simply don’t have the staff. Yes, it’s required, but the frank truth is that SpEd is near impossible to fully staff. A school can’t pull blood from stone, no matter how much the remaining staff may try. That’s why current teachers are blaze-of-glory burning out, trying to provide what’s required for MANY students. One person is just one person, though, and can only do so much.

They don't have the staff because MCPS hasn't prioritized SpEd positions.

It also doesn't help that there are 4X as many SpED cases than there were 10 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of county employees with tuff jobs. Why are teachers on a pedestal? Fix the problems in mcps and parents step up and parent your kids.

But other employees get overtime pay. MCPS openly admits teachers work more than 40 hour weeks.

Most professionals work more than 40 hours.

Most professionals get paid enough to make ends meet. My kids qualified for free meals the first few years I was a teacher. Ridiculous.

Starting salaries for teachers aren't great, but the mid-to-upper range is pretty similar to other professional jobs in the public and non-profit sectors. They're not even that far off from nurses and nurse practitioners/physician assistants doing primary care.

Only for those that have only worked in MCPS. Like most professionals in this area, teachers also move around yet we are penalized in education for doing so (at least in the state of Maryland). I have over 20 years teaching experience, but MCPS only pays me for 12.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of county employees with tuff jobs. Why are teachers on a pedestal? Fix the problems in mcps and parents step up and parent your kids.

But other employees get overtime pay. MCPS openly admits teachers work more than 40 hour weeks.

Most professionals work more than 40 hours.

Most professionals get paid enough to make ends meet. My kids qualified for free meals the first few years I was a teacher. Ridiculous.

Starting salaries for teachers aren't great, but the mid-to-upper range is pretty similar to other professional jobs in the public and non-profit sectors. They're not even that far off from nurses and nurse practitioners/physician assistants doing primary care.

Only for those that have only worked in MCPS. Like most professionals in this area, teachers also move around yet we are penalized in education for doing so (at least in the state of Maryland). I have over 20 years teaching experience, but MCPS only pays me for 12.

You are not peanilized. We are on a county system where you work for the county. County and state employees are different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of county employees with tuff jobs. Why are teachers on a pedestal? Fix the problems in mcps and parents step up and parent your kids.

But other employees get overtime pay. MCPS openly admits teachers work more than 40 hour weeks.

Most professionals work more than 40 hours.

Most professionals get paid enough to make ends meet. My kids qualified for free meals the first few years I was a teacher. Ridiculous.

Starting salaries for teachers aren't great, but the mid-to-upper range is pretty similar to other professional jobs in the public and non-profit sectors. They're not even that far off from nurses and nurse practitioners/physician assistants doing primary care.

Only for those that have only worked in MCPS. Like most professionals in this area, teachers also move around yet we are penalized in education for doing so (at least in the state of Maryland). I have over 20 years teaching experience, but MCPS only pays me for 12.

I agree that's ridiculous and should change. I don't understand the dynamics that allows that to continue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of county employees with tuff jobs. Why are teachers on a pedestal? Fix the problems in mcps and parents step up and parent your kids.

But other employees get overtime pay. MCPS openly admits teachers work more than 40 hour weeks.

Most professionals work more than 40 hours.

Most professionals get paid enough to make ends meet. My kids qualified for free meals the first few years I was a teacher. Ridiculous.

Starting salaries for teachers aren't great, but the mid-to-upper range is pretty similar to other professional jobs in the public and non-profit sectors. They're not even that far off from nurses and nurse practitioners/physician assistants doing primary care.

Only for those that have only worked in MCPS. Like most professionals in this area, teachers also move around yet we are penalized in education for doing so (at least in the state of Maryland). I have over 20 years teaching experience, but MCPS only pays me for 12.

I teach in DCPS but live in Montgomery County. By most metrics I’m a teacher you would love your kid to have and principals would hire quickly. I decided to explore switching to MCPS but contractually they couldn’t hire me on anything above step 8, which is $80k. In DCPS I’m on step 21 and making $124k. Why would I take a $50k pay cut? I could work part time and tutor a few hours on the side and almost make full time MCPS pay.

All that being said, one thing I know of that I would be pretty bothered by in terms of working conditions is that teachers have to find their own subs for personal days. It’s contractural if I understand correctly, so probably not something you can just change. In DCPS we essentially don’t have subs so maybe this is a non issue in MCPS?

[Anonymous]

There are already plenty of incentives. The problem is the grass is always greener, but at least there's no shortage of new teachers to fill in for the unhappy ones who leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not harrassing and manipulating teachers is it's own incentive. In otherwords, we could do our jobs with autonomy and the system would be sued less and governed more fairly if admin positions simply did not exist.

😂🤣😂🤣. That would be a fun experiment to watch. They should actually simulate that out with teachers, parents and a facilitator across a couple weeks.

I’d like to see who would rise up to become the defacto admins, community chairs, and collaborators.

As long as the de facto admins remain teachers instead of stepping full-time into an office, the experiment would be a success.

It’s when people leave the classroom but continue to be “experts” that we fall into the mess we have now.

First you didn’t call for Admins to remain teachers you suggested getting rid of them all together.

Second was does remain teachers mean? One class, half a day, an AP class, what?

Third, what those defacto admin are going to find is that the pressures and expectations are different when you have to start making decisions that impact are whole lot of people. They are also going to find that there is a whole slew of things that need decisions, work, and reporting/compliance that teachers aren’t fully responsible for. And they are going to quickly find out that in a district the scale of MCPS, without some Admin who don’t have split focus, important things are going to be missed and lots of things are going to be done 200 different ways.

There’s a reason that when organization scale they start having management roles.

You are responding to two different posters. I called for making admin teach. Another poster called for removing admin all together.

Other countries make it work. Perhaps it’s time for us to consider smaller districts so the sheer size of MCPS isn’t an issue. I have a friend who is an “admin” overseas. She works with a group of teachers who run the school, but each person continues to teach a small set of classes. They not only make school-wide decisions, but they serve as models to younger teachers who are able to come observe their methods. Makes sense.

What we are doing right now isn’t working. I’ll be honest: I know my admin can’t do what I do every day. Some haven’t taught in 10-15 years, and a lot has changed since then. Teachers continue to gain experience and administrators don’t. It’s hard to look at them as leaders when they are adjacent to the classroom and not in it. They only superficially understand what current teachers are experiencing.

So what you want is Teacher-Powered charter schools. That already exist in the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are already plenty of incentives. The problem is the grass is always greener, but at least there's no shortage of new teachers to fill in for the unhappy ones who leave.

Um, there is a huge shortage of new teachers. Education departments nationwide have low enrollment. And new teachers become unhappy teachers very quickly, so they don’t last long.

Yes, the grass is greener. Other professions offer more respect, a better work/life balance, and a less hectic work day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not harrassing and manipulating teachers is it's own incentive. In otherwords, we could do our jobs with autonomy and the system would be sued less and governed more fairly if admin positions simply did not exist.

😂🤣😂🤣. That would be a fun experiment to watch. They should actually simulate that out with teachers, parents and a facilitator across a couple weeks.

I’d like to see who would rise up to become the defacto admins, community chairs, and collaborators.

As long as the de facto admins remain teachers instead of stepping full-time into an office, the experiment would be a success.

It’s when people leave the classroom but continue to be “experts” that we fall into the mess we have now.

First you didn’t call for Admins to remain teachers you suggested getting rid of them all together.

Second was does remain teachers mean? One class, half a day, an AP class, what?

Third, what those defacto admin are going to find is that the pressures and expectations are different when you have to start making decisions that impact are whole lot of people. They are also going to find that there is a whole slew of things that need decisions, work, and reporting/compliance that teachers aren’t fully responsible for. And they are going to quickly find out that in a district the scale of MCPS, without some Admin who don’t have split focus, important things are going to be missed and lots of things are going to be done 200 different ways.

There’s a reason that when organization scale they start having management roles.

You are responding to two different posters. I called for making admin teach. Another poster called for removing admin all together.

Other countries make it work. Perhaps it’s time for us to consider smaller districts so the sheer size of MCPS isn’t an issue. I have a friend who is an “admin” overseas. She works with a group of teachers who run the school, but each person continues to teach a small set of classes. They not only make school-wide decisions, but they serve as models to younger teachers who are able to come observe their methods. Makes sense.

What we are doing right now isn’t working. I’ll be honest: I know my admin can’t do what I do every day. Some haven’t taught in 10-15 years, and a lot has changed since then. Teachers continue to gain experience and administrators don’t. It’s hard to look at them as leaders when they are adjacent to the classroom and not in it. They only superficially understand what current teachers are experiencing.

So what you want is Teacher-Powered charter schools. That already exist in the country.

People shouldn’t have to choose charters or private schools in order to have a well-run school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should the BOE and County Council do to keep teachers?

I’d say:
No income tax for any teacher after x#of years
No property tax for teachers who choose to live in MC after 5 years within county and x#years of teaching

What else?

As a parent in MCPS with so many behavior issues ( incl but not limited to ADHD), a teacher needs a TA in class. This can be someone who may only have a HS diploma, but is there to deal with kids that are misbehaving, so the teacher can focus on teaching the rest of the class. So much time in my child’s middle school is spent on dealing with the same half dozen kids ( in an entire day, different classes ) that are not listening, being obnoxious or disrupting class for other reasons.

Private schools would not tolerate these behaviors- so why are public schools tolerating it? It is so disruptive for children who want to study and learn. It is not the teachers fault - their hands are tied by what the admin will or will not do.

We need TAs for the students who need help but we also need bouncers to get rid of the ones who don't want to learn. It's my dream to have a sweep of these students like in the movie Lean on Me. Get rid of them. Someone else (not the teachers) can offer alternatives for them but they need to be removed from the gen ed classroom.

Unfortunately, in public schools, you cannot get rid of students , per se. That is another big issue. I think having consequences where the child disrupting needs parents to pick them up- if it happens regularly, mandate psych eval and then go from there.

My DC 14 told me the other day that there are a couple of students that get detention / have to eat lunch with the VP every single day- doesn’t change a thing- behavior is still the same. So the consequences currently being implanted are not effective. The Board with parent input need to find more consistent and different consequences for disruptive behavior. Also, imo, it needs to be the same all across MCPS- no school and principal dependent.

But there are zero expectations of parents. There is no expectation that they answer the phone when admin calls them about their child’s behavior. If I had a time for every pissed off parents screaming, “He’s not my problem when he’s at school!” “Stop calling me!”

But it is the school's responsibility to provide services necessary to manage a student's disability. If a disruptive behavior is a manifestation of a disability, then the school needs to provide additional supportive services. They can't simply send the student home, although sometimes they try.

If parents won’t sign an IEP, there isn’t that much that can be done. We can’t even send our students to the mental health counselor without parent permission.

An IEP isn't necessary to provide many supports.

These kids desperately need mental health counseling. That won’t happen without parent approval.

Due to a MCPS partnership, numerous schools have on-site therapy services during the school day with outside organizations. They take most insurance. Yes, parental approval is needed. These services have greatly improved things at my school due go students getting the help they need. However, not all of the parents have agreed to it which is a shame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are already plenty of incentives. The problem is the grass is always greener, but at least there's no shortage of new teachers to fill in for the unhappy ones who leave.

Exactly. They get really good benefits and there are housing programs already. And after the first few years the pay is decent to good for a ten month employee and they get tuition benefits for a masters or PhD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should the BOE and County Council do to keep teachers?

I’d say:
No income tax for any teacher after x#of years
No property tax for teachers who choose to live in MC after 5 years within county and x#years of teaching

What else?

As a parent in MCPS with so many behavior issues ( incl but not limited to ADHD), a teacher needs a TA in class. This can be someone who may only have a HS diploma, but is there to deal with kids that are misbehaving, so the teacher can focus on teaching the rest of the class. So much time in my child’s middle school is spent on dealing with the same half dozen kids ( in an entire day, different classes ) that are not listening, being obnoxious or disrupting class for other reasons.

Private schools would not tolerate these behaviors- so why are public schools tolerating it? It is so disruptive for children who want to study and learn. It is not the teachers fault - their hands are tied by what the admin will or will not do.

We need TAs for the students who need help but we also need bouncers to get rid of the ones who don't want to learn. It's my dream to have a sweep of these students like in the movie Lean on Me. Get rid of them. Someone else (not the teachers) can offer alternatives for them but they need to be removed from the gen ed classroom.

Unfortunately, in public schools, you cannot get rid of students , per se. That is another big issue. I think having consequences where the child disrupting needs parents to pick them up- if it happens regularly, mandate psych eval and then go from there.

My DC 14 told me the other day that there are a couple of students that get detention / have to eat lunch with the VP every single day- doesn’t change a thing- behavior is still the same. So the consequences currently being implanted are not effective. The Board with parent input need to find more consistent and different consequences for disruptive behavior. Also, imo, it needs to be the same all across MCPS- no school and principal dependent.

But there are zero expectations of parents. There is no expectation that they answer the phone when admin calls them about their child’s behavior. If I had a time for every pissed off parents screaming, “He’s not my problem when he’s at school!” “Stop calling me!”

But it is the school's responsibility to provide services necessary to manage a student's disability. If a disruptive behavior is a manifestation of a disability, then the school needs to provide additional supportive services. They can't simply send the student home, although sometimes they try.

If parents won’t sign an IEP, there isn’t that much that can be done. We can’t even send our students to the mental health counselor without parent permission.

An IEP isn't necessary to provide many supports.

These kids desperately need mental health counseling. That won’t happen without parent approval.

Due to a MCPS partnership, numerous schools have on-site therapy services during the school day with outside organizations. They take most insurance. Yes, parental approval is needed. These services have greatly improved things at my school due go students getting the help they need. However, not all of the parents have agreed to it which is a shame.

If parents don’t have insurance they still provide services. I would not consent to school based mental health. Usually only the worst providers work for those jobs and can do more harm than good.