AP, DE, or IB?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I looked recently into this, IB seems to be very weak in math and sciences. Their high level classes are the equivalent of the AP, but take two years instead on one to complete. Not only the pace is slow, but if you look at IB Physics, it is actually Algebra based instead of Calculus based, thats realy disappointing for what is the equivalent of an introductory university class. So the slow pace doesn't mean you go into more depth.

In terms of the quality of the curriculum I'd put IB last. Even DE Physics classes are Calculus based.

The first year of the HL math sequence is AP Calc BC so don't think it's weak on math. But I do agree it's weaker in sciences -- IB diploma students are required to take science classes, whereas AP students pick and choose based on strengths/interests. I think if your kid is super into science/STEM, they will probably do better with AP, but for students who are looking for more writing and a well-rounded curriculum, IB might be better.

Lol. The irony of claiming IB is not weak in math based on an AP class students take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They all have find their niche and face unique challenges.

AP is the known quantity, the baseline to compare everything against. It’s most recognized easiest to get college credit etc. their latest. Some of the classes feel like a filler, Human Geography, environmental science. There’s also a tier of not quite college classes I’d add to this AP physics 1 and 2, maybe AP statistics. Their latest course AP precalculus was not received too well.

DE is publicly funded but enrollment is trending down, they see high school student enrollment as a way to bolster their numbers so they market aggressively. I actually like what I read about the early college program. Some people look down at DE, and you may not get the credit for out of state transfer, but usually guaranteed at in state institutions. In general they seem to be easier than AP in terms of content and grading when you compare the difficult classes: calculus, chemistry, English, foreign language. You can get a college AA degree before finishing high school, which is a tangible accomplishment.

IB niche is the package deal, kind of like integrated math but it’s across two years and six subjects and they put a lot of emphasis on writing. I think it’s great for students needing more guidance and attention as opposed to the sink or swim approach. You can get a diploma in the end as a recognition if you take the class exams. I’m not aware of it being considered as a formal degree like AA, although it may be the case at some lower ranked colleges.

They are all fine, probably it’s more important to focus on the fit and student interest before deciding.

Is there a value to the IB diploma except for some kind of proof of challenging coursework, and good scores, ie bragging rights? I guess they are all for bragging rights, but can you brag more for some of them lol? In other words, what’s going to impress colleges more?

Not much value besides the bragging rights. Some people say IB is a lot of busy work. I wouldn’t call it exactly busy work, but there’s a lot of effort in the diploma, writing assignments, volunteering that doesn’t translate into a tangible academic outcome. The diploma certifies that the work was done, but it doesn’t look as impressive as the kid with a ton of APs classes.

Doesn't look as impressive to whom?

It doesn’t look as impressive to me. Let’s be real here, what looks better on a college application, an IB Diploma or 6 additional APs? I’ll take the APs any day.

+1.

What’s the actual value of the IB Diploma, it’s a piece of paper for bragging rights as a previous poster put it very eloquently.

In all seriousness, you can put an actual monetary value on the credits AP and DE classes can save in tuition towards the same undergrad degree. You can get credits from the IB HL classes too, but the diploma, eeeerh, shrug.

If your plan is to shorten undergrad by a year then I agree AP or DE is the way to go.

I also agree that the actual IB diploma is granted when a HS diploma is, so after all the college decisions are made.

But when people talk about the diploma program they are talking about an entire program that has rigor and the rigor of that program does seem to be recognized by colleges based on my limited experience and research. It also seems to prepare kids very well for college, again based on my experience.

So for both those reasons I’d rather my kid do IB than additional APs but ymmv— some kids prefer doing APs only or a mix of both AP. And IB, and some kids find the HL 2 year sequences limiting.

Not sure I understand, because you say the diploma doesn’t matter, but then say the program matters.

I’m wondering if a student can take 6 high level classes instead and not do the diploma. Does it mean he is not eligible to do the Theory of knowledge, extended essay and service requirement, is there a downside to it on how colleges see it? Or take 3 HL and fill the rest with a combination of AP and DE. Is the strength of the IB diploma program the extras, like the theory of knowledge and extended essays, or the two year long classes?

Yes, you can do all of the classes and not do the diploma. I don't know why you would, but you can.

That was the question I asked, if you do classes only but none of the TOK and EE extras is it seen as less rigorous?

Is it seen as less rigorous by whom? By college admissions officers?

Well duh! That’s what was written three posts ago:

But when people talk about the diploma program they are talking about an entire program that has rigor and the rigor of that program does seem to be recognized by colleges based on my limited experience and research.

Not sure it’s the same poster, but they said colleges. To me, colleges means college admissions officers, it’s not like the college building can recognize the rigor of a program, lol.

Maybe the PP should ask college admissions officers then. Nobody on this forum knows the answer to the question, unless they are a college admissions officer.

It’s not like a can whip up my phone to call my friend the college admissions officer! That’s why I’m posting on the forum, to get some insight from other parents. If you’re not the previous poster, I don’t know why you interjected in this conversation, just to tell me to ask an admission officer. FYI, I don’t feed the trolls.

I'm not a troll, I'm a person with a kid in the IB DP. I don't think the other parents know the answer any more than you or I do (or don't). If your only reason for your kid to do the IB DP program is that you think college admissions officers would approve - I don't think that's not a good reason.

Here is DCUM, claiming to value education (unlike THOSE people, who don't value education, according to DCUM), and all I ever read about is: will this or that help my kid get into a "good" college so that they can get a "good" (high-paying) job. In my opinion, education isn't getting the right credentials, education is actually learning stuff. Are you going to learn more stuff if you do the full IB DP, as opposed to some IB classes a la carte? Yes.

For the purpose of the thread, what is the stuff students learn in IB that’s differentiated from the stuff they learn in AP or DE? The discussion is about comparing these options.

There’s nothing wrong with having the goal of getting into a “good” college and having a “good” job. Just because your goal is learning stuff doesn’t make you “better”.

It's an over-generalization so don't @ me but AP is more focused on breadth and IB is more focused on depth (reading primary sources for history etc). For that reason I think some people prefer AP for STEM. The extended essay in IB is pretty unusual for public schools in offering a class structured around a long writing assignment.

AP classes read primary sources for history, but they are required to have a textbook for contextualization. Which is actually smarter than relying only on primary sources - History teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They all have find their niche and face unique challenges.

AP is the known quantity, the baseline to compare everything against. It’s most recognized easiest to get college credit etc. their latest. Some of the classes feel like a filler, Human Geography, environmental science. There’s also a tier of not quite college classes I’d add to this AP physics 1 and 2, maybe AP statistics. Their latest course AP precalculus was not received too well.

DE is publicly funded but enrollment is trending down, they see high school student enrollment as a way to bolster their numbers so they market aggressively. I actually like what I read about the early college program. Some people look down at DE, and you may not get the credit for out of state transfer, but usually guaranteed at in state institutions. In general they seem to be easier than AP in terms of content and grading when you compare the difficult classes: calculus, chemistry, English, foreign language. You can get a college AA degree before finishing high school, which is a tangible accomplishment.

IB niche is the package deal, kind of like integrated math but it’s across two years and six subjects and they put a lot of emphasis on writing. I think it’s great for students needing more guidance and attention as opposed to the sink or swim approach. You can get a diploma in the end as a recognition if you take the class exams. I’m not aware of it being considered as a formal degree like AA, although it may be the case at some lower ranked colleges.

They are all fine, probably it’s more important to focus on the fit and student interest before deciding.

Is there a value to the IB diploma except for some kind of proof of challenging coursework, and good scores, ie bragging rights? I guess they are all for bragging rights, but can you brag more for some of them lol? In other words, what’s going to impress colleges more?

Not much value besides the bragging rights. Some people say IB is a lot of busy work. I wouldn’t call it exactly busy work, but there’s a lot of effort in the diploma, writing assignments, volunteering that doesn’t translate into a tangible academic outcome. The diploma certifies that the work was done, but it doesn’t look as impressive as the kid with a ton of APs classes.

Doesn't look as impressive to whom?

It doesn’t look as impressive to me. Let’s be real here, what looks better on a college application, an IB Diploma or 6 additional APs? I’ll take the APs any day.

+1.

What’s the actual value of the IB Diploma, it’s a piece of paper for bragging rights as a previous poster put it very eloquently.

In all seriousness, you can put an actual monetary value on the credits AP and DE classes can save in tuition towards the same undergrad degree. You can get credits from the IB HL classes too, but the diploma, eeeerh, shrug.

If your plan is to shorten undergrad by a year then I agree AP or DE is the way to go.

I also agree that the actual IB diploma is granted when a HS diploma is, so after all the college decisions are made.

But when people talk about the diploma program they are talking about an entire program that has rigor and the rigor of that program does seem to be recognized by colleges based on my limited experience and research. It also seems to prepare kids very well for college, again based on my experience.

So for both those reasons I’d rather my kid do IB than additional APs but ymmv— some kids prefer doing APs only or a mix of both AP. And IB, and some kids find the HL 2 year sequences limiting.

Not sure I understand, because you say the diploma doesn’t matter, but then say the program matters.

I’m wondering if a student can take 6 high level classes instead and not do the diploma. Does it mean he is not eligible to do the Theory of knowledge, extended essay and service requirement, is there a downside to it on how colleges see it? Or take 3 HL and fill the rest with a combination of AP and DE. Is the strength of the IB diploma program the extras, like the theory of knowledge and extended essays, or the two year long classes?

Yes, you can do all of the classes and not do the diploma. I don't know why you would, but you can.

That was the question I asked, if you do classes only but none of the TOK and EE extras is it seen as less rigorous?

Is it seen as less rigorous by whom? By college admissions officers?

Well duh! That’s what was written three posts ago:

But when people talk about the diploma program they are talking about an entire program that has rigor and the rigor of that program does seem to be recognized by colleges based on my limited experience and research.

Not sure it’s the same poster, but they said colleges. To me, colleges means college admissions officers, it’s not like the college building can recognize the rigor of a program, lol.

Maybe the PP should ask college admissions officers then. Nobody on this forum knows the answer to the question, unless they are a college admissions officer.

It’s not like a can whip up my phone to call my friend the college admissions officer! That’s why I’m posting on the forum, to get some insight from other parents. If you’re not the previous poster, I don’t know why you interjected in this conversation, just to tell me to ask an admission officer. FYI, I don’t feed the trolls.

I'm not a troll, I'm a person with a kid in the IB DP. I don't think the other parents know the answer any more than you or I do (or don't). If your only reason for your kid to do the IB DP program is that you think college admissions officers would approve - I don't think that's not a good reason.

Here is DCUM, claiming to value education (unlike THOSE people, who don't value education, according to DCUM), and all I ever read about is: will this or that help my kid get into a "good" college so that they can get a "good" (high-paying) job. In my opinion, education isn't getting the right credentials, education is actually learning stuff. Are you going to learn more stuff if you do the full IB DP, as opposed to some IB classes a la carte? Yes.

For the purpose of the thread, what is the stuff students learn in IB that’s differentiated from the stuff they learn in AP or DE? The discussion is about comparing these options.

There’s nothing wrong with having the goal of getting into a “good” college and having a “good” job. Just because your goal is learning stuff doesn’t make you “better”.

It's an over-generalization so don't @ me but AP is more focused on breadth and IB is more focused on depth (reading primary sources for history etc). For that reason I think some people prefer AP for STEM. The extended essay in IB is pretty unusual for public schools in offering a class structured around a long writing assignment.

AP classes read primary sources for history, but they are required to have a textbook for contextualization. Which is actually smarter than relying only on primary sources - History teacher

Can you comment on how much writing is in the AP history class? I hear that IB is better for writing, but I don’t know what to compare against. Is there a longer paper, short essay prompts like in the AP exam?

[Anonymous]

In my view the International Baccalaureate is way overrated.

Over two years in the IB Diploma Program you need to take at minimum 3 HL classes, each taking two years but essentially only covering the material in one year of an AP course. The rest are 6 SL classes, three in each year, that are the rough equivalent of a regular/honors class. That’s a very weak coursework to be considered rigorous, but somehow the schedule ends up being very full and stressful, perhaps because of a heavy amount of busywork.

Talking about extras. There’s a Theory of Knowledge class, one semester each year, a wannabe course in epistemology, but actually pretentious and useless. There’s another section of Creativity, Activity and Service, which is supposed to stand in for extracurriculars, kind of being voluntold to go out and learn about something. It’s much better if you’re actually part of a club to be involved, CAS is such a time sink it actually makes it harder to have strong extracurriculars. Extended Essay is a long 15-20 page written assignment, probably the best feature of the program, but the format is an awkward first person essay instead of a thesis.

Overall, IB is trying to be a full package serving a a rigorous program for many students, but it falls short particularly for the very top students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my view the International Baccalaureate is way overrated.

Over two years in the IB Diploma Program you need to take at minimum 3 HL classes, each taking two years but essentially only covering the material in one year of an AP course. The rest are 6 SL classes, three in each year, that are the rough equivalent of a regular/honors class. That’s a very weak coursework to be considered rigorous, but somehow the schedule ends up being very full and stressful, perhaps because of a heavy amount of busywork.

Talking about extras. There’s a Theory of Knowledge class, one semester each year, a wannabe course in epistemology, but actually pretentious and useless. There’s another section of Creativity, Activity and Service, which is supposed to stand in for extracurriculars, kind of being voluntold to go out and learn about something. It’s much better if you’re actually part of a club to be involved, CAS is such a time sink it actually makes it harder to have strong extracurriculars. Extended Essay is a long 15-20 page written assignment, probably the best feature of the program, but the format is an awkward first person essay instead of a thesis.

Overall, IB is trying to be a full package serving a a rigorous program for many students, but it falls short particularly for the very top students.

This is interesting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my view the International Baccalaureate is way overrated.

Over two years in the IB Diploma Program you need to take at minimum 3 HL classes, each taking two years but essentially only covering the material in one year of an AP course. The rest are 6 SL classes, three in each year, that are the rough equivalent of a regular/honors class. That’s a very weak coursework to be considered rigorous, but somehow the schedule ends up being very full and stressful, perhaps because of a heavy amount of busywork.

Talking about extras. There’s a Theory of Knowledge class, one semester each year, a wannabe course in epistemology, but actually pretentious and useless. There’s another section of Creativity, Activity and Service, which is supposed to stand in for extracurriculars, kind of being voluntold to go out and learn about something. It’s much better if you’re actually part of a club to be involved, CAS is such a time sink it actually makes it harder to have strong extracurriculars. Extended Essay is a long 15-20 page written assignment, probably the best feature of the program, but the format is an awkward first person essay instead of a thesis.

Overall, IB is trying to be a full package serving a a rigorous program for many students, but it falls short particularly for the very top students.

The HL classes are below their AP counterparts. The IB “Calculus” equivalent class is called IB HL Analysis and Approaches, but the recommended potion of calculus is 55 hours (in two years) of the total 240 for instruction. For comparison AP Calculus BC is 148 hours of instruction in one year. The rest is a combination of statistics, precalculus, etc and even Algebra 1! like linear and quadratic functions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I looked recently into this, IB seems to be very weak in math and sciences. Their high level classes are the equivalent of the AP, but take two years instead on one to complete. Not only the pace is slow, but if you look at IB Physics, it is actually Algebra based instead of Calculus based, thats realy disappointing for what is the equivalent of an introductory university class. So the slow pace doesn't mean you go into more depth.

In terms of the quality of the curriculum I'd put IB last. Even DE Physics classes are Calculus based.

The first year of the HL math sequence is AP Calc BC so don't think it's weak on math. But I do agree it's weaker in sciences -- IB diploma students are required to take science classes, whereas AP students pick and choose based on strengths/interests. I think if your kid is super into science/STEM, they will probably do better with AP, but for students who are looking for more writing and a well-rounded curriculum, IB might be better.

Lol. The irony of claiming IB is not weak in math based on an AP class students take.

Well it goes beyond the highest AP offered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, it's the return of the poster who is randomly obsessed with hating on the IB Diploma Programme.

He sure does spend a lot of time and energy being anti-IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I looked recently into this, IB seems to be very weak in math and sciences. Their high level classes are the equivalent of the AP, but take two years instead on one to complete. Not only the pace is slow, but if you look at IB Physics, it is actually Algebra based instead of Calculus based, thats realy disappointing for what is the equivalent of an introductory university class. So the slow pace doesn't mean you go into more depth.

In terms of the quality of the curriculum I'd put IB last. Even DE Physics classes are Calculus based.

The first year of the HL math sequence is AP Calc BC so don't think it's weak on math. But I do agree it's weaker in sciences -- IB diploma students are required to take science classes, whereas AP students pick and choose based on strengths/interests. I think if your kid is super into science/STEM, they will probably do better with AP, but for students who are looking for more writing and a well-rounded curriculum, IB might be better.

Lol. The irony of claiming IB is not weak in math based on an AP class students take.

Well it goes beyond the highest AP offered.

What do you mean it goes beyond the highest AP offered? I’m pretty sure it doesn’t as far as course content.

Both AP Calculus BC and IB HL Analysis are somewhat equivalent to two semesters of university calculus.

Splitting hairs, in general AP receives more credit than IB. For example, Stanford gives 10 quarter units for AP Calculus BC, but only 6 for IB HL Analysis.

AP Physics C, 10 quarter credits, IB HL Physics, 8 quarter credits, same as the algebra based AP Physics 1 and 2.

Of course all IB HL classes are two years, while the AP classes are one year.

https://studentservices.stanford.edu/my-academics/earn-my-degree/undergraduate-degree-progress/test-transfer-credit/external-test-0

https://studentservices.stanford.edu/my-academics/earn-my-degree/undergraduate-degree-progress/test-transfer-credit/external-test-1

AP > IB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my view the International Baccalaureate is way overrated.

Over two years in the IB Diploma Program you need to take at minimum 3 HL classes, each taking two years but essentially only covering the material in one year of an AP course. The rest are 6 SL classes, three in each year, that are the rough equivalent of a regular/honors class. That’s a very weak coursework to be considered rigorous, but somehow the schedule ends up being very full and stressful, perhaps because of a heavy amount of busywork.

Talking about extras. There’s a Theory of Knowledge class, one semester each year, a wannabe course in epistemology, but actually pretentious and useless. There’s another section of Creativity, Activity and Service, which is supposed to stand in for extracurriculars, kind of being voluntold to go out and learn about something. It’s much better if you’re actually part of a club to be involved, CAS is such a time sink it actually makes it harder to have strong extracurriculars. Extended Essay is a long 15-20 page written assignment, probably the best feature of the program, but the format is an awkward first person essay instead of a thesis.

Overall, IB is trying to be a full package serving a a rigorous program for many students, but it falls short particularly for the very top students.

This is interesting

I mean it’s just stupid to claim that IB takes 2 years to cover the “same material” as AP. Kids are not just sitting there listening and reading at half speed or something.

Obviously everyone who’s taught or gone to college knows you can spend a semester on the French Revolution or you can spend a semester on the history of France from the Romans to the 5th Republic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my view the International Baccalaureate is way overrated.

Over two years in the IB Diploma Program you need to take at minimum 3 HL classes, each taking two years but essentially only covering the material in one year of an AP course. The rest are 6 SL classes, three in each year, that are the rough equivalent of a regular/honors class. That’s a very weak coursework to be considered rigorous, but somehow the schedule ends up being very full and stressful, perhaps because of a heavy amount of busywork.

Talking about extras. There’s a Theory of Knowledge class, one semester each year, a wannabe course in epistemology, but actually pretentious and useless. There’s another section of Creativity, Activity and Service, which is supposed to stand in for extracurriculars, kind of being voluntold to go out and learn about something. It’s much better if you’re actually part of a club to be involved, CAS is such a time sink it actually makes it harder to have strong extracurriculars. Extended Essay is a long 15-20 page written assignment, probably the best feature of the program, but the format is an awkward first person essay instead of a thesis.

Overall, IB is trying to be a full package serving a a rigorous program for many students, but it falls short particularly for the very top students.

This is interesting

I mean it’s just stupid to claim that IB takes 2 years to cover the “same material” as AP. Kids are not just sitting there listening and reading at half speed or something.

Obviously everyone who’s taught or gone to college knows you can spend a semester on the French Revolution or you can spend a semester on the history of France from the Romans to the 5th Republic.

The point is there are many of lower level topics covered as a review in the IB HL Analysis from precalculus, geometry and algebra. It’s possible some might need the extra review, but strong students that already know them inside out would be better served with a course focused on the advanced topics like calculus and statistics, and not waste one year of their high school math education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my view the International Baccalaureate is way overrated.

Over two years in the IB Diploma Program you need to take at minimum 3 HL classes, each taking two years but essentially only covering the material in one year of an AP course. The rest are 6 SL classes, three in each year, that are the rough equivalent of a regular/honors class. That’s a very weak coursework to be considered rigorous, but somehow the schedule ends up being very full and stressful, perhaps because of a heavy amount of busywork.

Talking about extras. There’s a Theory of Knowledge class, one semester each year, a wannabe course in epistemology, but actually pretentious and useless. There’s another section of Creativity, Activity and Service, which is supposed to stand in for extracurriculars, kind of being voluntold to go out and learn about something. It’s much better if you’re actually part of a club to be involved, CAS is such a time sink it actually makes it harder to have strong extracurriculars. Extended Essay is a long 15-20 page written assignment, probably the best feature of the program, but the format is an awkward first person essay instead of a thesis.

Overall, IB is trying to be a full package serving a a rigorous program for many students, but it falls short particularly for the very top students.

This is interesting

I mean it’s just stupid to claim that IB takes 2 years to cover the “same material” as AP. Kids are not just sitting there listening and reading at half speed or something.

Obviously everyone who’s taught or gone to college knows you can spend a semester on the French Revolution or you can spend a semester on the history of France from the Romans to the 5th Republic.

It’s fine if you think IB is better in some way but you’re not bringing anything to the discussion by name calling arguments you disagree with stupid. The fact is, at least in science and math, IB is slow paced and that’s not great for the top students. If writing a Theory of Knowledge essay is redeeming all that, you’re entitled to your opinion. My own is that essay is a waste of time.

The only argument I’ve heard for IB is that there is a lot of writing. Whoever values that above coursework rigor will choose to go to an IB program. Other people will weigh the the rest of the arguments an choose accordingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my view the International Baccalaureate is way overrated.

Over two years in the IB Diploma Program you need to take at minimum 3 HL classes, each taking two years but essentially only covering the material in one year of an AP course. The rest are 6 SL classes, three in each year, that are the rough equivalent of a regular/honors class. That’s a very weak coursework to be considered rigorous, but somehow the schedule ends up being very full and stressful, perhaps because of a heavy amount of busywork.

Talking about extras. There’s a Theory of Knowledge class, one semester each year, a wannabe course in epistemology, but actually pretentious and useless. There’s another section of Creativity, Activity and Service, which is supposed to stand in for extracurriculars, kind of being voluntold to go out and learn about something. It’s much better if you’re actually part of a club to be involved, CAS is such a time sink it actually makes it harder to have strong extracurriculars. Extended Essay is a long 15-20 page written assignment, probably the best feature of the program, but the format is an awkward first person essay instead of a thesis.

Overall, IB is trying to be a full package serving a a rigorous program for many students, but it falls short particularly for the very top students.

This is interesting

I mean it’s just stupid to claim that IB takes 2 years to cover the “same material” as AP. Kids are not just sitting there listening and reading at half speed or something.

Obviously everyone who’s taught or gone to college knows you can spend a semester on the French Revolution or you can spend a semester on the history of France from the Romans to the 5th Republic.

It’s fine if you think IB is better in some way but you’re not bringing anything to the discussion by name calling arguments you disagree with stupid. The fact is, at least in science and math, IB is slow paced and that’s not great for the top students. If writing a Theory of Knowledge essay is redeeming all that, you’re entitled to your opinion. My own is that essay is a waste of time.

The only argument I’ve heard for IB is that there is a lot of writing. Whoever values that above coursework rigor will choose to go to an IB program. Other people will weigh the the rest of the arguments an choose accordingly.

IB is so slow that so many super smart kids apply to the IB magnet program rather than stay at their home school and take all the APs. Yep, those super smart kids are just looking to be lazy.

/s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They all have find their niche and face unique challenges.

AP is the known quantity, the baseline to compare everything against. It’s most recognized easiest to get college credit etc. their latest. Some of the classes feel like a filler, Human Geography, environmental science. There’s also a tier of not quite college classes I’d add to this AP physics 1 and 2, maybe AP statistics. Their latest course AP precalculus was not received too well.

DE is publicly funded but enrollment is trending down, they see high school student enrollment as a way to bolster their numbers so they market aggressively. I actually like what I read about the early college program. Some people look down at DE, and you may not get the credit for out of state transfer, but usually guaranteed at in state institutions. In general they seem to be easier than AP in terms of content and grading when you compare the difficult classes: calculus, chemistry, English, foreign language. You can get a college AA degree before finishing high school, which is a tangible accomplishment.

IB niche is the package deal, kind of like integrated math but it’s across two years and six subjects and they put a lot of emphasis on writing. I think it’s great for students needing more guidance and attention as opposed to the sink or swim approach. You can get a diploma in the end as a recognition if you take the class exams. I’m not aware of it being considered as a formal degree like AA, although it may be the case at some lower ranked colleges.

They are all fine, probably it’s more important to focus on the fit and student interest before deciding.

Is there a value to the IB diploma except for some kind of proof of challenging coursework, and good scores, ie bragging rights? I guess they are all for bragging rights, but can you brag more for some of them lol? In other words, what’s going to impress colleges more?

Not much value besides the bragging rights. Some people say IB is a lot of busy work. I wouldn’t call it exactly busy work, but there’s a lot of effort in the diploma, writing assignments, volunteering that doesn’t translate into a tangible academic outcome. The diploma certifies that the work was done, but it doesn’t look as impressive as the kid with a ton of APs classes.

Doesn't look as impressive to whom?

It doesn’t look as impressive to me. Let’s be real here, what looks better on a college application, an IB Diploma or 6 additional APs? I’ll take the APs any day.

+1.

What’s the actual value of the IB Diploma, it’s a piece of paper for bragging rights as a previous poster put it very eloquently.

In all seriousness, you can put an actual monetary value on the credits AP and DE classes can save in tuition towards the same undergrad degree. You can get credits from the IB HL classes too, but the diploma, eeeerh, shrug.

If your plan is to shorten undergrad by a year then I agree AP or DE is the way to go.

I also agree that the actual IB diploma is granted when a HS diploma is, so after all the college decisions are made.

But when people talk about the diploma program they are talking about an entire program that has rigor and the rigor of that program does seem to be recognized by colleges based on my limited experience and research. It also seems to prepare kids very well for college, again based on my experience.

So for both those reasons I’d rather my kid do IB than additional APs but ymmv— some kids prefer doing APs only or a mix of both AP. And IB, and some kids find the HL 2 year sequences limiting.

Not sure I understand, because you say the diploma doesn’t matter, but then say the program matters.

I’m wondering if a student can take 6 high level classes instead and not do the diploma. Does it mean he is not eligible to do the Theory of knowledge, extended essay and service requirement, is there a downside to it on how colleges see it? Or take 3 HL and fill the rest with a combination of AP and DE. Is the strength of the IB diploma program the extras, like the theory of knowledge and extended essays, or the two year long classes?

Yes, you can do all of the classes and not do the diploma. I don't know why you would, but you can.

That was the question I asked, if you do classes only but none of the TOK and EE extras is it seen as less rigorous?

Is it seen as less rigorous by whom? By college admissions officers?

Well duh! That’s what was written three posts ago:

But when people talk about the diploma program they are talking about an entire program that has rigor and the rigor of that program does seem to be recognized by colleges based on my limited experience and research.

Not sure it’s the same poster, but they said colleges. To me, colleges means college admissions officers, it’s not like the college building can recognize the rigor of a program, lol.

Maybe the PP should ask college admissions officers then. Nobody on this forum knows the answer to the question, unless they are a college admissions officer.

It’s not like a can whip up my phone to call my friend the college admissions officer! That’s why I’m posting on the forum, to get some insight from other parents. If you’re not the previous poster, I don’t know why you interjected in this conversation, just to tell me to ask an admission officer. FYI, I don’t feed the trolls.

I'm not a troll, I'm a person with a kid in the IB DP. I don't think the other parents know the answer any more than you or I do (or don't). If your only reason for your kid to do the IB DP program is that you think college admissions officers would approve - I don't think that's not a good reason.

Here is DCUM, claiming to value education (unlike THOSE people, who don't value education, according to DCUM), and all I ever read about is: will this or that help my kid get into a "good" college so that they can get a "good" (high-paying) job. In my opinion, education isn't getting the right credentials, education is actually learning stuff. Are you going to learn more stuff if you do the full IB DP, as opposed to some IB classes a la carte? Yes.

For the purpose of the thread, what is the stuff students learn in IB that’s differentiated from the stuff they learn in AP or DE? The discussion is about comparing these options.

There’s nothing wrong with having the goal of getting into a “good” college and having a “good” job. Just because your goal is learning stuff doesn’t make you “better”.

It's an over-generalization so don't @ me but AP is more focused on breadth and IB is more focused on depth (reading primary sources for history etc). For that reason I think some people prefer AP for STEM. The extended essay in IB is pretty unusual for public schools in offering a class structured around a long writing assignment.

AP classes read primary sources for history, but they are required to have a textbook for contextualization. Which is actually smarter than relying only on primary sources - History teacher

Can you comment on how much writing is in the AP history class? I hear that IB is better for writing, but I don’t know what to compare against. Is there a longer paper, short essay prompts like in the AP exam?

Kid took a push and ib world history

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my view the International Baccalaureate is way overrated.

Over two years in the IB Diploma Program you need to take at minimum 3 HL classes, each taking two years but essentially only covering the material in one year of an AP course. The rest are 6 SL classes, three in each year, that are the rough equivalent of a regular/honors class. That’s a very weak coursework to be considered rigorous, but somehow the schedule ends up being very full and stressful, perhaps because of a heavy amount of busywork.

Talking about extras. There’s a Theory of Knowledge class, one semester each year, a wannabe course in epistemology, but actually pretentious and useless. There’s another section of Creativity, Activity and Service, which is supposed to stand in for extracurriculars, kind of being voluntold to go out and learn about something. It’s much better if you’re actually part of a club to be involved, CAS is such a time sink it actually makes it harder to have strong extracurriculars. Extended Essay is a long 15-20 page written assignment, probably the best feature of the program, but the format is an awkward first person essay instead of a thesis.

Overall, IB is trying to be a full package serving a a rigorous program for many students, but it falls short particularly for the very top students.

This is interesting

I mean it’s just stupid to claim that IB takes 2 years to cover the “same material” as AP. Kids are not just sitting there listening and reading at half speed or something.

Obviously everyone who’s taught or gone to college knows you can spend a semester on the French Revolution or you can spend a semester on the history of France from the Romans to the 5th Republic.

It’s fine if you think IB is better in some way but you’re not bringing anything to the discussion by name calling arguments you disagree with stupid. The fact is, at least in science and math, IB is slow paced and that’s not great for the top students. If writing a Theory of Knowledge essay is redeeming all that, you’re entitled to your opinion. My own is that essay is a waste of time.

The only argument I’ve heard for IB is that there is a lot of writing. Whoever values that above coursework rigor will choose to go to an IB program. Other people will weigh the the rest of the arguments an choose accordingly.

IB is so slow that so many super smart kids apply to the IB magnet program rather than stay at their home school and take all the APs. Yep, those super smart kids are just looking to be lazy.

/s

You’re conflating two different things here, the IB curriculum and the grouping by ability (magnet programs). I don’t disagree that the latter works and putting smart students together is beneficial to their education.

You can compare the IB magnet with other magnets, but that’s an entirely different discussion.