AP, DE, or IB?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They all have find their niche and face unique challenges.

AP is the known quantity, the baseline to compare everything against. It’s most recognized easiest to get college credit etc. their latest. Some of the classes feel like a filler, Human Geography, environmental science. There’s also a tier of not quite college classes I’d add to this AP physics 1 and 2, maybe AP statistics. Their latest course AP precalculus was not received too well.

DE is publicly funded but enrollment is trending down, they see high school student enrollment as a way to bolster their numbers so they market aggressively. I actually like what I read about the early college program. Some people look down at DE, and you may not get the credit for out of state transfer, but usually guaranteed at in state institutions. In general they seem to be easier than AP in terms of content and grading when you compare the difficult classes: calculus, chemistry, English, foreign language. You can get a college AA degree before finishing high school, which is a tangible accomplishment.

IB niche is the package deal, kind of like integrated math but it’s across two years and six subjects and they put a lot of emphasis on writing. I think it’s great for students needing more guidance and attention as opposed to the sink or swim approach. You can get a diploma in the end as a recognition if you take the class exams. I’m not aware of it being considered as a formal degree like AA, although it may be the case at some lower ranked colleges.

They are all fine, probably it’s more important to focus on the fit and student interest before deciding.

Is there a value to the IB diploma except for some kind of proof of challenging coursework, and good scores, ie bragging rights? I guess they are all for bragging rights, but can you brag more for some of them lol? In other words, what’s going to impress colleges more?

Not much value besides the bragging rights. Some people say IB is a lot of busy work. I wouldn’t call it exactly busy work, but there’s a lot of effort in the diploma, writing assignments, volunteering that doesn’t translate into a tangible academic outcome. The diploma certifies that the work was done, but it doesn’t look as impressive as the kid with a ton of APs classes.

What's more impressive is the amount of AP exams the IB students take by self studying, and getting 5s. They take both AP and IB exams, without taking the AP classes. Much more impressive than taking AP classes then the exams.

That number is 0, in the case of my IB DP kid. Specifically, my IB DP kid has self-studied for 0 AP exams. My AP kid similarly self-studied for 0 AP exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They all have find their niche and face unique challenges.

AP is the known quantity, the baseline to compare everything against. It’s most recognized easiest to get college credit etc. their latest. Some of the classes feel like a filler, Human Geography, environmental science. There’s also a tier of not quite college classes I’d add to this AP physics 1 and 2, maybe AP statistics. Their latest course AP precalculus was not received too well.

DE is publicly funded but enrollment is trending down, they see high school student enrollment as a way to bolster their numbers so they market aggressively. I actually like what I read about the early college program. Some people look down at DE, and you may not get the credit for out of state transfer, but usually guaranteed at in state institutions. In general they seem to be easier than AP in terms of content and grading when you compare the difficult classes: calculus, chemistry, English, foreign language. You can get a college AA degree before finishing high school, which is a tangible accomplishment.

IB niche is the package deal, kind of like integrated math but it’s across two years and six subjects and they put a lot of emphasis on writing. I think it’s great for students needing more guidance and attention as opposed to the sink or swim approach. You can get a diploma in the end as a recognition if you take the class exams. I’m not aware of it being considered as a formal degree like AA, although it may be the case at some lower ranked colleges.

They are all fine, probably it’s more important to focus on the fit and student interest before deciding.

Is there a value to the IB diploma except for some kind of proof of challenging coursework, and good scores, ie bragging rights? I guess they are all for bragging rights, but can you brag more for some of them lol? In other words, what’s going to impress colleges more?

Not much value besides the bragging rights. Some people say IB is a lot of busy work. I wouldn’t call it exactly busy work, but there’s a lot of effort in the diploma, writing assignments, volunteering that doesn’t translate into a tangible academic outcome. The diploma certifies that the work was done, but it doesn’t look as impressive as the kid with a ton of APs classes.

Doesn't look as impressive to whom?

It doesn’t look as impressive to me. Let’s be real here, what looks better on a college application, an IB Diploma or 6 additional APs? I’ll take the APs any day.

+1.

What’s the actual value of the IB Diploma, it’s a piece of paper for bragging rights as a previous poster put it very eloquently.

In all seriousness, you can put an actual monetary value on the credits AP and DE classes can save in tuition towards the same undergrad degree. You can get credits from the IB HL classes too, but the diploma, eeeerh, shrug.

If your plan is to shorten undergrad by a year then I agree AP or DE is the way to go.

I also agree that the actual IB diploma is granted when a HS diploma is, so after all the college decisions are made.

But when people talk about the diploma program they are talking about an entire program that has rigor and the rigor of that program does seem to be recognized by colleges based on my limited experience and research. It also seems to prepare kids very well for college, again based on my experience.

So for both those reasons I’d rather my kid do IB than additional APs but ymmv— some kids prefer doing APs only or a mix of both AP. And IB, and some kids find the HL 2 year sequences limiting.

Not sure I understand, because you say the diploma doesn’t matter, but then say the program matters.

I’m wondering if a student can take 6 high level classes instead and not do the diploma. Does it mean he is not eligible to do the Theory of knowledge, extended essay and service requirement, is there a downside to it on how colleges see it? Or take 3 HL and fill the rest with a combination of AP and DE. Is the strength of the IB diploma program the extras, like the theory of knowledge and extended essays, or the two year long classes?

Yes, you can do all of the classes and not do the diploma. I don't know why you would, but you can.

That was the question I asked, if you do classes only but none of the TOK and EE extras is it seen as less rigorous?

Is it seen as less rigorous by whom? By college admissions officers?

Well duh! That’s what was written three posts ago:

But when people talk about the diploma program they are talking about an entire program that has rigor and the rigor of that program does seem to be recognized by colleges based on my limited experience and research.

Not sure it’s the same poster, but they said colleges. To me, colleges means college admissions officers, it’s not like the college building can recognize the rigor of a program, lol.

Maybe the PP should ask college admissions officers then. Nobody on this forum knows the answer to the question, unless they are a college admissions officer.

It’s not like a can whip up my phone to call my friend the college admissions officer! That’s why I’m posting on the forum, to get some insight from other parents. If you’re not the previous poster, I don’t know why you interjected in this conversation, just to tell me to ask an admission officer. FYI, I don’t feed the trolls.

I'm not a troll, I'm a person with a kid in the IB DP. I don't think the other parents know the answer any more than you or I do (or don't). If your only reason for your kid to do the IB DP program is that you think college admissions officers would approve - I don't think that's not a good reason.

Here is DCUM, claiming to value education (unlike THOSE people, who don't value education, according to DCUM), and all I ever read about is: will this or that help my kid get into a "good" college so that they can get a "good" (high-paying) job. In my opinion, education isn't getting the right credentials, education is actually learning stuff. Are you going to learn more stuff if you do the full IB DP, as opposed to some IB classes a la carte? Yes.

For the purpose of the thread, what is the stuff students learn in IB that’s differentiated from the stuff they learn in AP or DE? The discussion is about comparing these options.

There’s nothing wrong with having the goal of getting into a “good” college and having a “good” job. Just because your goal is learning stuff doesn’t make you “better”.

You're right, there isn't. It's fine. It's just not valuing education. And the parents who supposedly don't value education, according to DCUM, are also prioritizing their kids' economic prospects.

The immediate PP is not asking about IB vs AP or DE; they are asking about IB DP vs IB a la carte.

It is actually valuing education, the type that results in a successful career. Not everyone angling for “good” colleges does it for monetary reasons. Some might even do it for the sake of learning and eventually pursue an academic career. It’s not a requirement, but it surely helps a lot to graduate from a well known university.

Whatever the reasons, people want to know how the three programs compare. IB DP vs a la carte IB, or a mix and match of IBAPDE.

Nah, it's not valuing education, at least not education as an end in itself. Only education as it helps your economic prospects. Which is fine.

Does it actually help a lot to graduate from a well known university?

Can you give an example as education as an end in itself that’s actually a feasible career choice? Because if you say philosopher and thinker, that’s not much of an option. Even university professors, their main job is to teach or run research labs, a very managerial job, it’s not the ivory tower the public imagines.

For some jobs and career paths graduating from a well known university matters more than for others. Lists are made that supposedly aggregate and quantify how much more. Take as much stock as you want from them.

https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/bachelors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They all have find their niche and face unique challenges.

AP is the known quantity, the baseline to compare everything against. It’s most recognized easiest to get college credit etc. their latest. Some of the classes feel like a filler, Human Geography, environmental science. There’s also a tier of not quite college classes I’d add to this AP physics 1 and 2, maybe AP statistics. Their latest course AP precalculus was not received too well.

DE is publicly funded but enrollment is trending down, they see high school student enrollment as a way to bolster their numbers so they market aggressively. I actually like what I read about the early college program. Some people look down at DE, and you may not get the credit for out of state transfer, but usually guaranteed at in state institutions. In general they seem to be easier than AP in terms of content and grading when you compare the difficult classes: calculus, chemistry, English, foreign language. You can get a college AA degree before finishing high school, which is a tangible accomplishment.

IB niche is the package deal, kind of like integrated math but it’s across two years and six subjects and they put a lot of emphasis on writing. I think it’s great for students needing more guidance and attention as opposed to the sink or swim approach. You can get a diploma in the end as a recognition if you take the class exams. I’m not aware of it being considered as a formal degree like AA, although it may be the case at some lower ranked colleges.

They are all fine, probably it’s more important to focus on the fit and student interest before deciding.

Is there a value to the IB diploma except for some kind of proof of challenging coursework, and good scores, ie bragging rights? I guess they are all for bragging rights, but can you brag more for some of them lol? In other words, what’s going to impress colleges more?

Not much value besides the bragging rights. Some people say IB is a lot of busy work. I wouldn’t call it exactly busy work, but there’s a lot of effort in the diploma, writing assignments, volunteering that doesn’t translate into a tangible academic outcome. The diploma certifies that the work was done, but it doesn’t look as impressive as the kid with a ton of APs classes.

Doesn't look as impressive to whom?

It doesn’t look as impressive to me. Let’s be real here, what looks better on a college application, an IB Diploma or 6 additional APs? I’ll take the APs any day.

+1.

What’s the actual value of the IB Diploma, it’s a piece of paper for bragging rights as a previous poster put it very eloquently.

In all seriousness, you can put an actual monetary value on the credits AP and DE classes can save in tuition towards the same undergrad degree. You can get credits from the IB HL classes too, but the diploma, eeeerh, shrug.

If your plan is to shorten undergrad by a year then I agree AP or DE is the way to go.

I also agree that the actual IB diploma is granted when a HS diploma is, so after all the college decisions are made.

But when people talk about the diploma program they are talking about an entire program that has rigor and the rigor of that program does seem to be recognized by colleges based on my limited experience and research. It also seems to prepare kids very well for college, again based on my experience.

So for both those reasons I’d rather my kid do IB than additional APs but ymmv— some kids prefer doing APs only or a mix of both AP. And IB, and some kids find the HL 2 year sequences limiting.

Not sure I understand, because you say the diploma doesn’t matter, but then say the program matters.

I’m wondering if a student can take 6 high level classes instead and not do the diploma. Does it mean he is not eligible to do the Theory of knowledge, extended essay and service requirement, is there a downside to it on how colleges see it? Or take 3 HL and fill the rest with a combination of AP and DE. Is the strength of the IB diploma program the extras, like the theory of knowledge and extended essays, or the two year long classes?

Yes, you can do all of the classes and not do the diploma. I don't know why you would, but you can.

That was the question I asked, if you do classes only but none of the TOK and EE extras is it seen as less rigorous?

Is it seen as less rigorous by whom? By college admissions officers?

Well duh! That’s what was written three posts ago:

But when people talk about the diploma program they are talking about an entire program that has rigor and the rigor of that program does seem to be recognized by colleges based on my limited experience and research.

Not sure it’s the same poster, but they said colleges. To me, colleges means college admissions officers, it’s not like the college building can recognize the rigor of a program, lol.

Maybe the PP should ask college admissions officers then. Nobody on this forum knows the answer to the question, unless they are a college admissions officer.

It’s not like a can whip up my phone to call my friend the college admissions officer! That’s why I’m posting on the forum, to get some insight from other parents. If you’re not the previous poster, I don’t know why you interjected in this conversation, just to tell me to ask an admission officer. FYI, I don’t feed the trolls.

I'm not a troll, I'm a person with a kid in the IB DP. I don't think the other parents know the answer any more than you or I do (or don't). If your only reason for your kid to do the IB DP program is that you think college admissions officers would approve - I don't think that's not a good reason.

Here is DCUM, claiming to value education (unlike THOSE people, who don't value education, according to DCUM), and all I ever read about is: will this or that help my kid get into a "good" college so that they can get a "good" (high-paying) job. In my opinion, education isn't getting the right credentials, education is actually learning stuff. Are you going to learn more stuff if you do the full IB DP, as opposed to some IB classes a la carte? Yes.

For the purpose of the thread, what is the stuff students learn in IB that’s differentiated from the stuff they learn in AP or DE? The discussion is about comparing these options.

There’s nothing wrong with having the goal of getting into a “good” college and having a “good” job. Just because your goal is learning stuff doesn’t make you “better”.

You're right, there isn't. It's fine. It's just not valuing education. And the parents who supposedly don't value education, according to DCUM, are also prioritizing their kids' economic prospects.

The immediate PP is not asking about IB vs AP or DE; they are asking about IB DP vs IB a la carte.

It is actually valuing education, the type that results in a successful career. Not everyone angling for “good” colleges does it for monetary reasons. Some might even do it for the sake of learning and eventually pursue an academic career. It’s not a requirement, but it surely helps a lot to graduate from a well known university.

Whatever the reasons, people want to know how the three programs compare. IB DP vs a la carte IB, or a mix and match of IBAPDE.

Nah, it's not valuing education, at least not education as an end in itself. Only education as it helps your economic prospects. Which is fine.

Does it actually help a lot to graduate from a well known university?

Can you give an example as education as an end in itself that’s actually a feasible career choice? Because if you say philosopher and thinker, that’s not much of an option. Even university professors, their main job is to teach or run research labs, a very managerial job, it’s not the ivory tower the public imagines.

For some jobs and career paths graduating from a well known university matters more than for others. Lists are made that supposedly aggregate and quantify how much more. Take as much stock as you want from them.

https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/bachelors

I don't care what you value. I just don't think people should say that they value education - and, conversely, that other people don't value education - when it's actually not education that they value.

I also think there are a lot of personal and societal benefits to education that aren't directly linked to "Will it directly help you get a better-paying job?".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a young elementary children in the RM cluster. Which is more impressive to t25 colleges when they get to high school, taking the AP path or the IB path? For STEM, it sounds like AP. Is that true? And if not STEM, which one?

For pure STEM, go with Blair or Poolesville magnet.

Having stated that, your kid can do IB and APs in stem. A lot of the RMIB students I know did that. My STEM oriented kid took both AP and IB STEM classes: AP BC Calc, IB MVC, IB physics; some of their friends took AP check, AP Bio. They all took both the IB and AP exams: physics, calc; some took AP bio (my kid hates bio), chem. Many self studied.

Most of DC's friend group in IB went to major in STEM or business.

From what you say it seems your child and his the friend group challenged themselves far beyond IB. To take on both IB and AP exams shows they really wanted to demonstrate the strength of the class, did he sit on the AP exam for SL classes as well or just HL? A lot of the opportunities they had are only found at RMIB.

A correction, the only IB math classes are Analysis and Approaches (stronger), and Applications and Interpretation (weaker) with their HL and SL versions.

There isn’t an IB Multivariable, IB precalculus, IB Analysis and applications of functions etc. It doesn’t help that the RMIB calls them that way, but that’s not what you’d encounter in a typical IB program. I think the better comparison is magnet to magnet, RMIB vs Blair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a young elementary children in the RM cluster. Which is more impressive to t25 colleges when they get to high school, taking the AP path or the IB path? For STEM, it sounds like AP. Is that true? And if not STEM, which one?

For pure STEM, go with Blair or Poolesville magnet.

Having stated that, your kid can do IB and APs in stem. A lot of the RMIB students I know did that. My STEM oriented kid took both AP and IB STEM classes: AP BC Calc, IB MVC, IB physics; some of their friends took AP check, AP Bio. They all took both the IB and AP exams: physics, calc; some took AP bio (my kid hates bio), chem. Many self studied.

Most of DC's friend group in IB went to major in STEM or business.

From what you say it seems your child and his the friend group challenged themselves far beyond IB. To take on both IB and AP exams shows they really wanted to demonstrate the strength of the class, did he sit on the AP exam for SL classes as well or just HL? A lot of the opportunities they had are only found at RMIB.

A correction, the only IB math classes are Analysis and Approaches (stronger), and Applications and Interpretation (weaker) with their HL and SL versions.

There isn’t an IB Multivariable, IB precalculus, IB Analysis and applications of functions etc. It doesn’t help that the RMIB calls them that way, but that’s not what you’d encounter in a typical IB program. I think the better comparison is magnet to magnet, RMIB vs Blair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a young elementary children in the RM cluster. Which is more impressive to t25 colleges when they get to high school, taking the AP path or the IB path? For STEM, it sounds like AP. Is that true? And if not STEM, which one?

For pure STEM, go with Blair or Poolesville magnet.

Having stated that, your kid can do IB and APs in stem. A lot of the RMIB students I know did that. My STEM oriented kid took both AP and IB STEM classes: AP BC Calc, IB MVC, IB physics; some of their friends took AP check, AP Bio. They all took both the IB and AP exams: physics, calc; some took AP bio (my kid hates bio), chem. Many self studied.

Most of DC's friend group in IB went to major in STEM or business.

From what you say it seems your child and his the friend group challenged themselves far beyond IB. To take on both IB and AP exams shows they really wanted to demonstrate the strength of the class, did he sit on the AP exam for SL classes as well or just HL? A lot of the opportunities they had are only found at RMIB.

A correction, the only IB math classes are Analysis and Approaches (stronger), and Applications and Interpretation (weaker) with their HL and SL versions.

There isn’t an IB Multivariable, IB precalculus, IB Analysis and applications of functions etc. It doesn’t help that the RMIB calls them that way, but that’s not what you’d encounter in a typical IB program. I think the better comparison is magnet to magnet, RMIB vs Blair.

For anyone that is not familiar with classes offered by IB or AP, Multivariable Calculus or Differential Equations are not part of the curriculum from either of them. They are separate classes, typical for second year of STEM undergraduate degrees that magnets offer for advanced students. They are a magnet specific class and don’t have anything to do with College Board or IBO. Both classes can be taken through Dual Enrollment as separate one semester classes, often differential equations has a linear algebra prerequisite.

Posting this because I’ve seen many confused parents that question why their regional IB program doesn’t have MVC. The short answer is that it doesn’t have anything to do with IB, it’s a class magnets choose to offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They all have find their niche and face unique challenges.

AP is the known quantity, the baseline to compare everything against. It’s most recognized easiest to get college credit etc. their latest. Some of the classes feel like a filler, Human Geography, environmental science. There’s also a tier of not quite college classes I’d add to this AP physics 1 and 2, maybe AP statistics. Their latest course AP precalculus was not received too well.

DE is publicly funded but enrollment is trending down, they see high school student enrollment as a way to bolster their numbers so they market aggressively. I actually like what I read about the early college program. Some people look down at DE, and you may not get the credit for out of state transfer, but usually guaranteed at in state institutions. In general they seem to be easier than AP in terms of content and grading when you compare the difficult classes: calculus, chemistry, English, foreign language. You can get a college AA degree before finishing high school, which is a tangible accomplishment.

IB niche is the package deal, kind of like integrated math but it’s across two years and six subjects and they put a lot of emphasis on writing. I think it’s great for students needing more guidance and attention as opposed to the sink or swim approach. You can get a diploma in the end as a recognition if you take the class exams. I’m not aware of it being considered as a formal degree like AA, although it may be the case at some lower ranked colleges.

They are all fine, probably it’s more important to focus on the fit and student interest before deciding.

Is there a value to the IB diploma except for some kind of proof of challenging coursework, and good scores, ie bragging rights? I guess they are all for bragging rights, but can you brag more for some of them lol? In other words, what’s going to impress colleges more?

Not much value besides the bragging rights. Some people say IB is a lot of busy work. I wouldn’t call it exactly busy work, but there’s a lot of effort in the diploma, writing assignments, volunteering that doesn’t translate into a tangible academic outcome. The diploma certifies that the work was done, but it doesn’t look as impressive as the kid with a ton of APs classes.

Doesn't look as impressive to whom?

It doesn’t look as impressive to me. Let’s be real here, what looks better on a college application, an IB Diploma or 6 additional APs? I’ll take the APs any day.

+1.

What’s the actual value of the IB Diploma, it’s a piece of paper for bragging rights as a previous poster put it very eloquently.

In all seriousness, you can put an actual monetary value on the credits AP and DE classes can save in tuition towards the same undergrad degree. You can get credits from the IB HL classes too, but the diploma, eeeerh, shrug.

If your plan is to shorten undergrad by a year then I agree AP or DE is the way to go.

I also agree that the actual IB diploma is granted when a HS diploma is, so after all the college decisions are made.

But when people talk about the diploma program they are talking about an entire program that has rigor and the rigor of that program does seem to be recognized by colleges based on my limited experience and research. It also seems to prepare kids very well for college, again based on my experience.

So for both those reasons I’d rather my kid do IB than additional APs but ymmv— some kids prefer doing APs only or a mix of both AP. And IB, and some kids find the HL 2 year sequences limiting.

Not sure I understand, because you say the diploma doesn’t matter, but then say the program matters.

I’m wondering if a student can take 6 high level classes instead and not do the diploma. Does it mean he is not eligible to do the Theory of knowledge, extended essay and service requirement, is there a downside to it on how colleges see it? Or take 3 HL and fill the rest with a combination of AP and DE. Is the strength of the IB diploma program the extras, like the theory of knowledge and extended essays, or the two year long classes?

Yes, you can do all of the classes and not do the diploma. I don't know why you would, but you can.

That was the question I asked, if you do classes only but none of the TOK and EE extras is it seen as less rigorous?

Is it seen as less rigorous by whom? By college admissions officers?

Well duh! That’s what was written three posts ago:

But when people talk about the diploma program they are talking about an entire program that has rigor and the rigor of that program does seem to be recognized by colleges based on my limited experience and research.

Not sure it’s the same poster, but they said colleges. To me, colleges means college admissions officers, it’s not like the college building can recognize the rigor of a program, lol.

Maybe the PP should ask college admissions officers then. Nobody on this forum knows the answer to the question, unless they are a college admissions officer.

It’s not like a can whip up my phone to call my friend the college admissions officer! That’s why I’m posting on the forum, to get some insight from other parents. If you’re not the previous poster, I don’t know why you interjected in this conversation, just to tell me to ask an admission officer. FYI, I don’t feed the trolls.

I'm not a troll, I'm a person with a kid in the IB DP. I don't think the other parents know the answer any more than you or I do (or don't). If your only reason for your kid to do the IB DP program is that you think college admissions officers would approve - I don't think that's not a good reason.

Here is DCUM, claiming to value education (unlike THOSE people, who don't value education, according to DCUM), and all I ever read about is: will this or that help my kid get into a "good" college so that they can get a "good" (high-paying) job. In my opinion, education isn't getting the right credentials, education is actually learning stuff. Are you going to learn more stuff if you do the full IB DP, as opposed to some IB classes a la carte? Yes.

For the purpose of the thread, what is the stuff students learn in IB that’s differentiated from the stuff they learn in AP or DE? The discussion is about comparing these options.

There’s nothing wrong with having the goal of getting into a “good” college and having a “good” job. Just because your goal is learning stuff doesn’t make you “better”.

You're right, there isn't. It's fine. It's just not valuing education. And the parents who supposedly don't value education, according to DCUM, are also prioritizing their kids' economic prospects.

The immediate PP is not asking about IB vs AP or DE; they are asking about IB DP vs IB a la carte.

It is actually valuing education, the type that results in a successful career. Not everyone angling for “good” colleges does it for monetary reasons. Some might even do it for the sake of learning and eventually pursue an academic career. It’s not a requirement, but it surely helps a lot to graduate from a well known university.

Whatever the reasons, people want to know how the three programs compare. IB DP vs a la carte IB, or a mix and match of IBAPDE.

Nah, it's not valuing education, at least not education as an end in itself. Only education as it helps your economic prospects. Which is fine.

Does it actually help a lot to graduate from a well known university?

Can you give an example as education as an end in itself that’s actually a feasible career choice? Because if you say philosopher and thinker, that’s not much of an option. Even university professors, their main job is to teach or run research labs, a very managerial job, it’s not the ivory tower the public imagines.

For some jobs and career paths graduating from a well known university matters more than for others. Lists are made that supposedly aggregate and quantify how much more. Take as much stock as you want from them.

https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/bachelors

I don't care what you value. I just don't think people should say that they value education - and, conversely, that other people don't value education - when it's actually not education that they value.

I also think there are a lot of personal and societal benefits to education that aren't directly linked to "Will it directly help you get a better-paying job?".

“Hey look at me, I’m better than the rest of the world because I have values, like helping others, learning and education even when it doesn’t result in a better paying job. The rest of DCUM that just wants money and don’t care at all about the rest of society and are selfish office drones”.

You pass self righteous judgements when you have no clue on what values those people have. You just know they are in it for the money, how? Don’t project your insecurities on others.

[Anonymous]

I’m not the PP but I will defend them a bit. Kids should seek careers that are well matched to their skills and interests. Not every kid is good for every career, which I think everyone agrees on. My son faints at the sight of blood. Probably not great brain surgeon material no matter how lucrative it would be.

Just like different careers are good for different kids (all of whom can be very smart in their own way), different colleges, and different ways of learning can be good for different kids. They don’t have to be so cookie cutter.

A kid that makes it into Juilliard is probably very accomplished. Maybe IB is better for that pathway because it is more balanced arts focused. Maybe AP and IB are both irrelevant.

I think what the person was trying to say is it is ok to choose the path that helps your kid learn best and matches their actual goals and interests. Sucking all the joy out of learning just to be cookie cutter really isn’t necessary or the way to help unique kids thrive.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They all have find their niche and face unique challenges.

AP is the known quantity, the baseline to compare everything against. It’s most recognized easiest to get college credit etc. their latest. Some of the classes feel like a filler, Human Geography, environmental science. There’s also a tier of not quite college classes I’d add to this AP physics 1 and 2, maybe AP statistics. Their latest course AP precalculus was not received too well.

DE is publicly funded but enrollment is trending down, they see high school student enrollment as a way to bolster their numbers so they market aggressively. I actually like what I read about the early college program. Some people look down at DE, and you may not get the credit for out of state transfer, but usually guaranteed at in state institutions. In general they seem to be easier than AP in terms of content and grading when you compare the difficult classes: calculus, chemistry, English, foreign language. You can get a college AA degree before finishing high school, which is a tangible accomplishment.

IB niche is the package deal, kind of like integrated math but it’s across two years and six subjects and they put a lot of emphasis on writing. I think it’s great for students needing more guidance and attention as opposed to the sink or swim approach. You can get a diploma in the end as a recognition if you take the class exams. I’m not aware of it being considered as a formal degree like AA, although it may be the case at some lower ranked colleges.

They are all fine, probably it’s more important to focus on the fit and student interest before deciding.

Is there a value to the IB diploma except for some kind of proof of challenging coursework, and good scores, ie bragging rights? I guess they are all for bragging rights, but can you brag more for some of them lol? In other words, what’s going to impress colleges more?

Not much value besides the bragging rights. Some people say IB is a lot of busy work. I wouldn’t call it exactly busy work, but there’s a lot of effort in the diploma, writing assignments, volunteering that doesn’t translate into a tangible academic outcome. The diploma certifies that the work was done, but it doesn’t look as impressive as the kid with a ton of APs classes.

Doesn't look as impressive to whom?

It doesn’t look as impressive to me. Let’s be real here, what looks better on a college application, an IB Diploma or 6 additional APs? I’ll take the APs any day.

+1.

What’s the actual value of the IB Diploma, it’s a piece of paper for bragging rights as a previous poster put it very eloquently.

In all seriousness, you can put an actual monetary value on the credits AP and DE classes can save in tuition towards the same undergrad degree. You can get credits from the IB HL classes too, but the diploma, eeeerh, shrug.

If your plan is to shorten undergrad by a year then I agree AP or DE is the way to go.

I also agree that the actual IB diploma is granted when a HS diploma is, so after all the college decisions are made.

But when people talk about the diploma program they are talking about an entire program that has rigor and the rigor of that program does seem to be recognized by colleges based on my limited experience and research. It also seems to prepare kids very well for college, again based on my experience.

So for both those reasons I’d rather my kid do IB than additional APs but ymmv— some kids prefer doing APs only or a mix of both AP. And IB, and some kids find the HL 2 year sequences limiting.

Not sure I understand, because you say the diploma doesn’t matter, but then say the program matters.

I’m wondering if a student can take 6 high level classes instead and not do the diploma. Does it mean he is not eligible to do the Theory of knowledge, extended essay and service requirement, is there a downside to it on how colleges see it? Or take 3 HL and fill the rest with a combination of AP and DE. Is the strength of the IB diploma program the extras, like the theory of knowledge and extended essays, or the two year long classes?

Yes, you can do all of the classes and not do the diploma. I don't know why you would, but you can.

That was the question I asked, if you do classes only but none of the TOK and EE extras is it seen as less rigorous?

Is it seen as less rigorous by whom? By college admissions officers?

Well duh! That’s what was written three posts ago:

But when people talk about the diploma program they are talking about an entire program that has rigor and the rigor of that program does seem to be recognized by colleges based on my limited experience and research.

Not sure it’s the same poster, but they said colleges. To me, colleges means college admissions officers, it’s not like the college building can recognize the rigor of a program, lol.

Maybe the PP should ask college admissions officers then. Nobody on this forum knows the answer to the question, unless they are a college admissions officer.

It’s not like a can whip up my phone to call my friend the college admissions officer! That’s why I’m posting on the forum, to get some insight from other parents. If you’re not the previous poster, I don’t know why you interjected in this conversation, just to tell me to ask an admission officer. FYI, I don’t feed the trolls.

I'm not a troll, I'm a person with a kid in the IB DP. I don't think the other parents know the answer any more than you or I do (or don't). If your only reason for your kid to do the IB DP program is that you think college admissions officers would approve - I don't think that's not a good reason.

Here is DCUM, claiming to value education (unlike THOSE people, who don't value education, according to DCUM), and all I ever read about is: will this or that help my kid get into a "good" college so that they can get a "good" (high-paying) job. In my opinion, education isn't getting the right credentials, education is actually learning stuff. Are you going to learn more stuff if you do the full IB DP, as opposed to some IB classes a la carte? Yes.

For the purpose of the thread, what is the stuff students learn in IB that’s differentiated from the stuff they learn in AP or DE? The discussion is about comparing these options.

There’s nothing wrong with having the goal of getting into a “good” college and having a “good” job. Just because your goal is learning stuff doesn’t make you “better”.

It's an over-generalization so don't @ me but AP is more focused on breadth and IB is more focused on depth (reading primary sources for history etc). For that reason I think some people prefer AP for STEM. The extended essay in IB is pretty unusual for public schools in offering a class structured around a long writing assignment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They all have find their niche and face unique challenges.

AP is the known quantity, the baseline to compare everything against. It’s most recognized easiest to get college credit etc. their latest. Some of the classes feel like a filler, Human Geography, environmental science. There’s also a tier of not quite college classes I’d add to this AP physics 1 and 2, maybe AP statistics. Their latest course AP precalculus was not received too well.

DE is publicly funded but enrollment is trending down, they see high school student enrollment as a way to bolster their numbers so they market aggressively. I actually like what I read about the early college program. Some people look down at DE, and you may not get the credit for out of state transfer, but usually guaranteed at in state institutions. In general they seem to be easier than AP in terms of content and grading when you compare the difficult classes: calculus, chemistry, English, foreign language. You can get a college AA degree before finishing high school, which is a tangible accomplishment.

IB niche is the package deal, kind of like integrated math but it’s across two years and six subjects and they put a lot of emphasis on writing. I think it’s great for students needing more guidance and attention as opposed to the sink or swim approach. You can get a diploma in the end as a recognition if you take the class exams. I’m not aware of it being considered as a formal degree like AA, although it may be the case at some lower ranked colleges.

They are all fine, probably it’s more important to focus on the fit and student interest before deciding.

Is there a value to the IB diploma except for some kind of proof of challenging coursework, and good scores, ie bragging rights? I guess they are all for bragging rights, but can you brag more for some of them lol? In other words, what’s going to impress colleges more?

Not much value besides the bragging rights. Some people say IB is a lot of busy work. I wouldn’t call it exactly busy work, but there’s a lot of effort in the diploma, writing assignments, volunteering that doesn’t translate into a tangible academic outcome. The diploma certifies that the work was done, but it doesn’t look as impressive as the kid with a ton of APs classes.

Doesn't look as impressive to whom?

It doesn’t look as impressive to me. Let’s be real here, what looks better on a college application, an IB Diploma or 6 additional APs? I’ll take the APs any day.

+1.

What’s the actual value of the IB Diploma, it’s a piece of paper for bragging rights as a previous poster put it very eloquently.

In all seriousness, you can put an actual monetary value on the credits AP and DE classes can save in tuition towards the same undergrad degree. You can get credits from the IB HL classes too, but the diploma, eeeerh, shrug.

If your plan is to shorten undergrad by a year then I agree AP or DE is the way to go.

I also agree that the actual IB diploma is granted when a HS diploma is, so after all the college decisions are made.

But when people talk about the diploma program they are talking about an entire program that has rigor and the rigor of that program does seem to be recognized by colleges based on my limited experience and research. It also seems to prepare kids very well for college, again based on my experience.

So for both those reasons I’d rather my kid do IB than additional APs but ymmv— some kids prefer doing APs only or a mix of both AP. And IB, and some kids find the HL 2 year sequences limiting.

Not sure I understand, because you say the diploma doesn’t matter, but then say the program matters.

I’m wondering if a student can take 6 high level classes instead and not do the diploma. Does it mean he is not eligible to do the Theory of knowledge, extended essay and service requirement, is there a downside to it on how colleges see it? Or take 3 HL and fill the rest with a combination of AP and DE. Is the strength of the IB diploma program the extras, like the theory of knowledge and extended essays, or the two year long classes?

Yes, you can do all of the classes and not do the diploma. I don't know why you would, but you can.

That was the question I asked, if you do classes only but none of the TOK and EE extras is it seen as less rigorous?

Is it seen as less rigorous by whom? By college admissions officers?

Well duh! That’s what was written three posts ago:

But when people talk about the diploma program they are talking about an entire program that has rigor and the rigor of that program does seem to be recognized by colleges based on my limited experience and research.

Not sure it’s the same poster, but they said colleges. To me, colleges means college admissions officers, it’s not like the college building can recognize the rigor of a program, lol.

Maybe the PP should ask college admissions officers then. Nobody on this forum knows the answer to the question, unless they are a college admissions officer.

It’s not like a can whip up my phone to call my friend the college admissions officer! That’s why I’m posting on the forum, to get some insight from other parents. If you’re not the previous poster, I don’t know why you interjected in this conversation, just to tell me to ask an admission officer. FYI, I don’t feed the trolls.

I'm not a troll, I'm a person with a kid in the IB DP. I don't think the other parents know the answer any more than you or I do (or don't). If your only reason for your kid to do the IB DP program is that you think college admissions officers would approve - I don't think that's not a good reason.

Here is DCUM, claiming to value education (unlike THOSE people, who don't value education, according to DCUM), and all I ever read about is: will this or that help my kid get into a "good" college so that they can get a "good" (high-paying) job. In my opinion, education isn't getting the right credentials, education is actually learning stuff. Are you going to learn more stuff if you do the full IB DP, as opposed to some IB classes a la carte? Yes.

For the purpose of the thread, what is the stuff students learn in IB that’s differentiated from the stuff they learn in AP or DE? The discussion is about comparing these options.

There’s nothing wrong with having the goal of getting into a “good” college and having a “good” job. Just because your goal is learning stuff doesn’t make you “better”.

It's an over-generalization so don't @ me but AP is more focused on breadth and IB is more focused on depth (reading primary sources for history etc). For that reason I think some people prefer AP for STEM. The extended essay in IB is pretty unusual for public schools in offering a class structured around a long writing assignment.

There’s a lot of primary sources studying in AP as well, I couldn’t find anything similar for IB.

https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/apc/ap05_Hist_PrimSource.pdf

One thing AP does really well is supporting their students unlike any other program. You can find the content of the course lesson by lesson, sign up in the college board account and there’s material to help, a list of recommended books with at least a few of them free, official YouTube videos, literally classes taught by AP teachers. Even if your teacher is not that great there are plenty of resources to help you succeed. In my view that’s why APs are easier to self study.

IBO is not getting even close in this respect, there’s not much content beyond a course description. It’s a smaller organization so there are fewer resources but in this day it shouldn’t be that hard.

DE content depends a lot on the college and teachers but in general they have at least some videos and slides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not the PP but I will defend them a bit. Kids should seek careers that are well matched to their skills and interests. Not every kid is good for every career, which I think everyone agrees on. My son faints at the sight of blood. Probably not great brain surgeon material no matter how lucrative it would be.

Just like different careers are good for different kids (all of whom can be very smart in their own way), different colleges, and different ways of learning can be good for different kids. They don’t have to be so cookie cutter.

A kid that makes it into Juilliard is probably very accomplished. Maybe IB is better for that pathway because it is more balanced arts focused. Maybe AP and IB are both irrelevant.

I think what the person was trying to say is it is ok to choose the path that helps your kid learn best and matches their actual goals and interests. Sucking all the joy out of learning just to be cookie cutter really isn’t necessary or the way to help unique kids thrive.

I don’t disagree the Julliard student may be accomplished despite not taking MVC lol, and there’s no single metric to evaluate success. Enjoying what you do is important not only for learning, but pretty much everything you do in life, you’ll be better at your job if you find it interesting.

To say the students interested in a career perceived as lucrative do it only for monetary reasons is misguided. Someone may be interested in business because he’s fascinated by logistics, a premed student might really care about prosthetics etc.

When general statements are made along the lines of IB is more creative, writing oriented, balanced, rounded, artsy than AP, there’s little evidence this is the case. If you are interested in writing pick the classes with a lot of writing, for art there’s some classes for that too.

[Anonymous]

I looked recently into this, IB seems to be very weak in math and sciences. Their high level classes are the equivalent of the AP, but take two years instead on one to complete. Not only the pace is slow, but if you look at IB Physics, it is actually Algebra based instead of Calculus based, thats realy disappointing for what is the equivalent of an introductory university class. So the slow pace doesn't mean you go into more depth.

In terms of the quality of the curriculum I'd put IB last. Even DE Physics classes are Calculus based.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I looked recently into this, IB seems to be very weak in math and sciences. Their high level classes are the equivalent of the AP, but take two years instead on one to complete. Not only the pace is slow, but if you look at IB Physics, it is actually Algebra based instead of Calculus based, thats realy disappointing for what is the equivalent of an introductory university class. So the slow pace doesn't mean you go into more depth.

In terms of the quality of the curriculum I'd put IB last. Even DE Physics classes are Calculus based.

I've seen posters say that IB students take AP classes at the end of their class. Does that work for Physics? What would they take, AP Physics 1 & 2 (Algebra based), of AP Physics C (Calculus based)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I looked recently into this, IB seems to be very weak in math and sciences. Their high level classes are the equivalent of the AP, but take two years instead on one to complete. Not only the pace is slow, but if you look at IB Physics, it is actually Algebra based instead of Calculus based, thats realy disappointing for what is the equivalent of an introductory university class. So the slow pace doesn't mean you go into more depth.

In terms of the quality of the curriculum I'd put IB last. Even DE Physics classes are Calculus based.

The first year of the HL math sequence is AP Calc BC so don't think it's weak on math. But I do agree it's weaker in sciences -- IB diploma students are required to take science classes, whereas AP students pick and choose based on strengths/interests. I think if your kid is super into science/STEM, they will probably do better with AP, but for students who are looking for more writing and a well-rounded curriculum, IB might be better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I looked recently into this, IB seems to be very weak in math and sciences. Their high level classes are the equivalent of the AP, but take two years instead on one to complete. Not only the pace is slow, but if you look at IB Physics, it is actually Algebra based instead of Calculus based, thats realy disappointing for what is the equivalent of an introductory university class. So the slow pace doesn't mean you go into more depth.

In terms of the quality of the curriculum I'd put IB last. Even DE Physics classes are Calculus based.

The first year of the HL math sequence is AP Calc BC so don't think it's weak on math. But I do agree it's weaker in sciences -- IB diploma students are required to take science classes, whereas AP students pick and choose based on strengths/interests. I think if your kid is super into science/STEM, they will probably do better with AP, but for students who are looking for more writing and a well-rounded curriculum, IB might be better.

I don’t think think that is true, definitely you can’t have an AP class count towards the diploma at our school, instead you need to do two years of HL math.