AP, DE, or IB?

[Anonymous]

Theory of Knowledge in IB is similar to the busy work in Health.

Creativity, Activity and Service is the IB busy work version for extracurriculars.

The rest are like regular classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Theory of Knowledge in IB is similar to the busy work in Health.

Creativity, Activity and Service is the IB busy work version for extracurriculars.

The rest are like regular classes.

ToK must be teacher-dependent, because that wasn’t my student’s experience at all. Few assignments or grades, lots of reading and class discussions, grading depended on just a few larger essays or projects. Definitely no busy work.

Maybe if you’re not into theory and philosophy the reading might feel like busy work, but mine found it had applications in the way they approached their history and English classes, too.

But yeah, the CASS hours are pretty much busy work. Most kids just find a category to drop stuff they’d be doing anyway into. At best, it’s a way to get kids to be mindful of their role in the community or whatever.

But IB is an international program, and in countries where high-achieving kids don’t need a ton of extracurricular activities to boost college applications, students may need to do more stuff specifically to meet those CASS hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Theory of Knowledge in IB is similar to the busy work in Health.

Creativity, Activity and Service is the IB busy work version for extracurriculars.

The rest are like regular classes.

Says the PP who has no personal experience with IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Theory of Knowledge in IB is similar to the busy work in Health.

Creativity, Activity and Service is the IB busy work version for extracurriculars.

The rest are like regular classes.

ToK must be teacher-dependent, because that wasn’t my student’s experience at all. Few assignments or grades, lots of reading and class discussions, grading depended on just a few larger essays or projects. Definitely no busy work.

Maybe if you’re not into theory and philosophy the reading might feel like busy work, but mine found it had applications in the way they approached their history and English classes, too.

But yeah, the CASS hours are pretty much busy work. Most kids just find a category to drop stuff they’d be doing anyway into. At best, it’s a way to get kids to be mindful of their role in the community or whatever.

But IB is an international program, and in countries where high-achieving kids don’t need a ton of extracurricular activities to boost college applications, students may need to do more stuff specifically to meet those CASS hours.

Theory of Knowledge is not a real field of study like Phylosophy, it's a very formulaic and scripted class that only exists in the IB program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my view the International Baccalaureate is way overrated.

Over two years in the IB Diploma Program you need to take at minimum 3 HL classes, each taking two years but essentially only covering the material in one year of an AP course. The rest are 6 SL classes, three in each year, that are the rough equivalent of a regular/honors class. That’s a very weak coursework to be considered rigorous, but somehow the schedule ends up being very full and stressful, perhaps because of a heavy amount of busywork.

Talking about extras. There’s a Theory of Knowledge class, one semester each year, a wannabe course in epistemology, but actually pretentious and useless. There’s another section of Creativity, Activity and Service, which is supposed to stand in for extracurriculars, kind of being voluntold to go out and learn about something. It’s much better if you’re actually part of a club to be involved, CAS is such a time sink it actually makes it harder to have strong extracurriculars. Extended Essay is a long 15-20 page written assignment, probably the best feature of the program, but the format is an awkward first person essay instead of a thesis.

Overall, IB is trying to be a full package serving a a rigorous program for many students, but it falls short particularly for the very top students.

This is interesting

I mean it’s just stupid to claim that IB takes 2 years to cover the “same material” as AP. Kids are not just sitting there listening and reading at half speed or something.

Obviously everyone who’s taught or gone to college knows you can spend a semester on the French Revolution or you can spend a semester on the history of France from the Romans to the 5th Republic.

It’s fine if you think IB is better in some way but you’re not bringing anything to the discussion by name calling arguments you disagree with stupid. The fact is, at least in science and math, IB is slow paced and that’s not great for the top students. If writing a Theory of Knowledge essay is redeeming all that, you’re entitled to your opinion. My own is that essay is a waste of time.

The only argument I’ve heard for IB is that there is a lot of writing. Whoever values that above coursework rigor will choose to go to an IB program. Other people will weigh the the rest of the arguments an choose accordingly.

IB is so slow that so many super smart kids apply to the IB magnet program rather than stay at their home school and take all the APs. Yep, those super smart kids are just looking to be lazy.

/s

Unfortunately in some instances the IB courses at the magnet are the slow down classes. After taking AP Calculus BC, students that want to get the diploma need to take IB HL Analysis 2 which is largely a review at that point.

You sure are worked up about a program that you have no personal experience of any sort with.

Ahh, the good old argument from authority. What’s your personal experience with the program?

dp.. mine is that my kid went through it. What's your personal experience?

Dear lord, do you even know what personal experience means? It means you personally experienced it!

Ok, the lady with her French history degree knows the IB is strong in math because her kid took AP Calculus BC at RMIB.

You can’t make this up!

so you admit you also have zero personal experience with IB. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my view the International Baccalaureate is way overrated.

Over two years in the IB Diploma Program you need to take at minimum 3 HL classes, each taking two years but essentially only covering the material in one year of an AP course. The rest are 6 SL classes, three in each year, that are the rough equivalent of a regular/honors class. That’s a very weak coursework to be considered rigorous, but somehow the schedule ends up being very full and stressful, perhaps because of a heavy amount of busywork.

Talking about extras. There’s a Theory of Knowledge class, one semester each year, a wannabe course in epistemology, but actually pretentious and useless. There’s another section of Creativity, Activity and Service, which is supposed to stand in for extracurriculars, kind of being voluntold to go out and learn about something. It’s much better if you’re actually part of a club to be involved, CAS is such a time sink it actually makes it harder to have strong extracurriculars. Extended Essay is a long 15-20 page written assignment, probably the best feature of the program, but the format is an awkward first person essay instead of a thesis.

Overall, IB is trying to be a full package serving a a rigorous program for many students, but it falls short particularly for the very top students.

This is interesting

I mean it’s just stupid to claim that IB takes 2 years to cover the “same material” as AP. Kids are not just sitting there listening and reading at half speed or something.

Obviously everyone who’s taught or gone to college knows you can spend a semester on the French Revolution or you can spend a semester on the history of France from the Romans to the 5th Republic.

It’s fine if you think IB is better in some way but you’re not bringing anything to the discussion by name calling arguments you disagree with stupid. The fact is, at least in science and math, IB is slow paced and that’s not great for the top students. If writing a Theory of Knowledge essay is redeeming all that, you’re entitled to your opinion. My own is that essay is a waste of time.

The only argument I’ve heard for IB is that there is a lot of writing. Whoever values that above coursework rigor will choose to go to an IB program. Other people will weigh the the rest of the arguments an choose accordingly.

IB is so slow that so many super smart kids apply to the IB magnet program rather than stay at their home school and take all the APs. Yep, those super smart kids are just looking to be lazy.

/s

You’re conflating two different things here, the IB curriculum and the grouping by ability (magnet programs). I don’t disagree that the latter works and putting smart students together is beneficial to their education.

You can compare the IB magnet with other magnets, but that’s an entirely different discussion.

Why? Do you think IB magnet teaches something different compared to non magnet IB? The curriculum is set by IDBP not the individual schools.

If those smart magnet kids didn't think IB was worth it and AP was better, do you think they'd want to apply to the magnet IB? There are several W school students at the IB magnet. They could easily stay at their W schools where there are a lot of smart kids, and take AP classes with them.

But many of those kids do apply to the IB magnet program because they know it's much more rigorous than just taking AP classes.

Magnet curriculum is different from regular IB. For one, the RMIB kids take many AP classes, as one previous poster hilariously thought the AP Calculus BC is an indication of the IB program strength. Multivariable calculus for example is also taught at RMIB, although it doesn’t really have much to do with the IBO. Some kids from W schools go to RMIB, others decide it’s not worth it and stay at their school. Many (most) kids choose SMCS magnets instead of RMIB or just taking AP or IB classes.

I don’t think there’s much value in making these anecdotal arguments, along the lines of my niece did well in college after IB, the smart kid in my child’s class went to RMIB etc. they can’t be verified, and you’d have to look at statistical outcome, if you have that data I’d be interested to see it.

You are hung up on just the math portion and keep bringing up Blair. If all a student wants is a heavy STEM program, then yes, IB is not for them.

There is no statistical outcome regarding college, or life for that matter for any magnet programs, not even for Blair.

You’d think? Well that’s why we look at course contents syllabus, how universities credit different courses arc.

If that makes you any happier I’ll just say it so you can agree: IB is a weak program for a strong stem kids.

indeed.. that's what I stated. But, it also depends on the IB school. Some IB schools have a strong math program, too, and the kids have a strong IB and math program. While it may not be a STEM magnet program, it has the same AP STEM classes as other HS without IB. Best of both worlds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my view the International Baccalaureate is way overrated.

Over two years in the IB Diploma Program you need to take at minimum 3 HL classes, each taking two years but essentially only covering the material in one year of an AP course. The rest are 6 SL classes, three in each year, that are the rough equivalent of a regular/honors class. That’s a very weak coursework to be considered rigorous, but somehow the schedule ends up being very full and stressful, perhaps because of a heavy amount of busywork.

Talking about extras. There’s a Theory of Knowledge class, one semester each year, a wannabe course in epistemology, but actually pretentious and useless. There’s another section of Creativity, Activity and Service, which is supposed to stand in for extracurriculars, kind of being voluntold to go out and learn about something. It’s much better if you’re actually part of a club to be involved, CAS is such a time sink it actually makes it harder to have strong extracurriculars. Extended Essay is a long 15-20 page written assignment, probably the best feature of the program, but the format is an awkward first person essay instead of a thesis.

Overall, IB is trying to be a full package serving a a rigorous program for many students, but it falls short particularly for the very top students.

This is interesting

I mean it’s just stupid to claim that IB takes 2 years to cover the “same material” as AP. Kids are not just sitting there listening and reading at half speed or something.

Obviously everyone who’s taught or gone to college knows you can spend a semester on the French Revolution or you can spend a semester on the history of France from the Romans to the 5th Republic.

It’s fine if you think IB is better in some way but you’re not bringing anything to the discussion by name calling arguments you disagree with stupid. The fact is, at least in science and math, IB is slow paced and that’s not great for the top students. If writing a Theory of Knowledge essay is redeeming all that, you’re entitled to your opinion. My own is that essay is a waste of time.

The only argument I’ve heard for IB is that there is a lot of writing. Whoever values that above coursework rigor will choose to go to an IB program. Other people will weigh the the rest of the arguments an choose accordingly.

IB is so slow that so many super smart kids apply to the IB magnet program rather than stay at their home school and take all the APs. Yep, those super smart kids are just looking to be lazy.

/s

Unfortunately in some instances the IB courses at the magnet are the slow down classes. After taking AP Calculus BC, students that want to get the diploma need to take IB HL Analysis 2 which is largely a review at that point.

You sure are worked up about a program that you have no personal experience of any sort with.

Ahh, the good old argument from authority. What’s your personal experience with the program?

dp.. mine is that my kid went through it. What's your personal experience?

Dear lord, do you even know what personal experience means? It means you personally experienced it!

Ok, the lady with her French history degree knows the IB is strong in math because her kid took AP Calculus BC at RMIB.

You can’t make this up!

so you admit you also have zero personal experience with IB. Got it.

You have zero personal experience with advanced math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Theory of Knowledge in IB is similar to the busy work in Health.

Creativity, Activity and Service is the IB busy work version for extracurriculars.

The rest are like regular classes.

ToK must be teacher-dependent, because that wasn’t my student’s experience at all. Few assignments or grades, lots of reading and class discussions, grading depended on just a few larger essays or projects. Definitely no busy work.

Maybe if you’re not into theory and philosophy the reading might feel like busy work, but mine found it had applications in the way they approached their history and English classes, too.

But yeah, the CASS hours are pretty much busy work. Most kids just find a category to drop stuff they’d be doing anyway into. At best, it’s a way to get kids to be mindful of their role in the community or whatever.

But IB is an international program, and in countries where high-achieving kids don’t need a ton of extracurricular activities to boost college applications, students may need to do more stuff specifically to meet those CASS hours.

Theory of Knowledge is not a real field of study like Phylosophy, it's a very formulaic and scripted class that only exists in the IB program.

It's neither formulaic nor scripted, but go off, IB Hater.

(I suppose Phylosophy is the study of phyla?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Theory of Knowledge in IB is similar to the busy work in Health.

Creativity, Activity and Service is the IB busy work version for extracurriculars.

The rest are like regular classes.

ToK must be teacher-dependent, because that wasn’t my student’s experience at all. Few assignments or grades, lots of reading and class discussions, grading depended on just a few larger essays or projects. Definitely no busy work.

Maybe if you’re not into theory and philosophy the reading might feel like busy work, but mine found it had applications in the way they approached their history and English classes, too.

But yeah, the CASS hours are pretty much busy work. Most kids just find a category to drop stuff they’d be doing anyway into. At best, it’s a way to get kids to be mindful of their role in the community or whatever.

But IB is an international program, and in countries where high-achieving kids don’t need a ton of extracurricular activities to boost college applications, students may need to do more stuff specifically to meet those CASS hours.

Theory of Knowledge is not a real field of study like Phylosophy, it's a very formulaic and scripted class that only exists in the IB program.

It's neither formulaic nor scripted, but go off, IB Hater.

(I suppose Phylosophy is the study of phyla?)

Theory of Knowledge is such an amazing class that nobody else in the world is teaching it! Filled with cliches and truisms, it’s firmly in the busy work category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Theory of Knowledge in IB is similar to the busy work in Health.

Creativity, Activity and Service is the IB busy work version for extracurriculars.

The rest are like regular classes.

ToK must be teacher-dependent, because that wasn’t my student’s experience at all. Few assignments or grades, lots of reading and class discussions, grading depended on just a few larger essays or projects. Definitely no busy work.

Maybe if you’re not into theory and philosophy the reading might feel like busy work, but mine found it had applications in the way they approached their history and English classes, too.

But yeah, the CASS hours are pretty much busy work. Most kids just find a category to drop stuff they’d be doing anyway into. At best, it’s a way to get kids to be mindful of their role in the community or whatever.

But IB is an international program, and in countries where high-achieving kids don’t need a ton of extracurricular activities to boost college applications, students may need to do more stuff specifically to meet those CASS hours.

Theory of Knowledge is not a real field of study like Phylosophy, it's a very formulaic and scripted class that only exists in the IB program.

It's neither formulaic nor scripted, but go off, IB Hater.

(I suppose Phylosophy is the study of phyla?)

Theory of Knowledge is such an amazing class that nobody else in the world is teaching it! Filled with cliches and truisms, it’s firmly in the busy work category.

How do you know that it's filled with cliches and truisms?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Theory of Knowledge in IB is similar to the busy work in Health.

Creativity, Activity and Service is the IB busy work version for extracurriculars.

The rest are like regular classes.

ToK must be teacher-dependent, because that wasn’t my student’s experience at all. Few assignments or grades, lots of reading and class discussions, grading depended on just a few larger essays or projects. Definitely no busy work.

Maybe if you’re not into theory and philosophy the reading might feel like busy work, but mine found it had applications in the way they approached their history and English classes, too.

But yeah, the CASS hours are pretty much busy work. Most kids just find a category to drop stuff they’d be doing anyway into. At best, it’s a way to get kids to be mindful of their role in the community or whatever.

But IB is an international program, and in countries where high-achieving kids don’t need a ton of extracurricular activities to boost college applications, students may need to do more stuff specifically to meet those CASS hours.

Theory of Knowledge is not a real field of study like Phylosophy, it's a very formulaic and scripted class that only exists in the IB program.

It's neither formulaic nor scripted, but go off, IB Hater.

(I suppose Phylosophy is the study of phyla?)

Theory of Knowledge is such an amazing class that nobody else in the world is teaching it! Filled with cliches and truisms, it’s firmly in the busy work category.

How do you know that it's filled with cliches and truisms?

“What do we know and how do we know it?” The central tenet of the Theory of Knowledge class. Methinks you are an IB graduate too, and take any of its criticisms way too personally and proving that the class is a waste of time.

The point of this thread it to argue the pros and cons of different options for advanced coursework for high school students. You’re turning it into a litmus test for your own self worth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Theory of Knowledge in IB is similar to the busy work in Health.

Creativity, Activity and Service is the IB busy work version for extracurriculars.

The rest are like regular classes.

ToK must be teacher-dependent, because that wasn’t my student’s experience at all. Few assignments or grades, lots of reading and class discussions, grading depended on just a few larger essays or projects. Definitely no busy work.

Maybe if you’re not into theory and philosophy the reading might feel like busy work, but mine found it had applications in the way they approached their history and English classes, too.

But yeah, the CASS hours are pretty much busy work. Most kids just find a category to drop stuff they’d be doing anyway into. At best, it’s a way to get kids to be mindful of their role in the community or whatever.

But IB is an international program, and in countries where high-achieving kids don’t need a ton of extracurricular activities to boost college applications, students may need to do more stuff specifically to meet those CASS hours.

Theory of Knowledge is not a real field of study like Phylosophy, it's a very formulaic and scripted class that only exists in the IB program.

It's neither formulaic nor scripted, but go off, IB Hater.

(I suppose Phylosophy is the study of phyla?)

No, that would be Phylology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Theory of Knowledge in IB is similar to the busy work in Health.

Creativity, Activity and Service is the IB busy work version for extracurriculars.

The rest are like regular classes.

ToK must be teacher-dependent, because that wasn’t my student’s experience at all. Few assignments or grades, lots of reading and class discussions, grading depended on just a few larger essays or projects. Definitely no busy work.

Maybe if you’re not into theory and philosophy the reading might feel like busy work, but mine found it had applications in the way they approached their history and English classes, too.

But yeah, the CASS hours are pretty much busy work. Most kids just find a category to drop stuff they’d be doing anyway into. At best, it’s a way to get kids to be mindful of their role in the community or whatever.

But IB is an international program, and in countries where high-achieving kids don’t need a ton of extracurricular activities to boost college applications, students may need to do more stuff specifically to meet those CASS hours.

Theory of Knowledge is not a real field of study like Phylosophy, it's a very formulaic and scripted class that only exists in the IB program.

It's neither formulaic nor scripted, but go off, IB Hater.

(I suppose Phylosophy is the study of phyla?)

Theory of Knowledge is such an amazing class that nobody else in the world is teaching it! Filled with cliches and truisms, it’s firmly in the busy work category.

How do you know that it's filled with cliches and truisms?

“What do we know and how do we know it?” The central tenet of the Theory of Knowledge class. Methinks you are an IB graduate too, and take any of its criticisms way too personally and proving that the class is a waste of time.

The point of this thread it to argue the pros and cons of different options for advanced coursework for high school students. You’re turning it into a litmus test for your own self worth.

Those are important questions. I'm surprised that you disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Theory of Knowledge in IB is similar to the busy work in Health.

Creativity, Activity and Service is the IB busy work version for extracurriculars.

The rest are like regular classes.

ToK must be teacher-dependent, because that wasn’t my student’s experience at all. Few assignments or grades, lots of reading and class discussions, grading depended on just a few larger essays or projects. Definitely no busy work.

Maybe if you’re not into theory and philosophy the reading might feel like busy work, but mine found it had applications in the way they approached their history and English classes, too.

But yeah, the CASS hours are pretty much busy work. Most kids just find a category to drop stuff they’d be doing anyway into. At best, it’s a way to get kids to be mindful of their role in the community or whatever.

But IB is an international program, and in countries where high-achieving kids don’t need a ton of extracurricular activities to boost college applications, students may need to do more stuff specifically to meet those CASS hours.

Theory of Knowledge is not a real field of study like Phylosophy, it's a very formulaic and scripted class that only exists in the IB program.

It's neither formulaic nor scripted, but go off, IB Hater.

(I suppose Phylosophy is the study of phyla?)

Theory of Knowledge is such an amazing class that nobody else in the world is teaching it! Filled with cliches and truisms, it’s firmly in the busy work category.

How do you know that it's filled with cliches and truisms?

“What do we know and how do we know it?” The central tenet of the Theory of Knowledge class. Methinks you are an IB graduate too, and take any of its criticisms way too personally and proving that the class is a waste of time.

The point of this thread it to argue the pros and cons of different options for advanced coursework for high school students. You’re turning it into a litmus test for your own self worth.

Those are important questions. I'm surprised that you disagree.

It's an overused crutch substituted for actual arguments. Usually it identifies someone's profession as a teacher, because it's never encountered outside the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Course description for Theory of Knowledge class:

THEORY OF KNOWLEDGE 2 -Grade 12 (SOC2016A)
First semester only In this required course students first investigate the system of knowledge applied by historians, and then turn to value judgments and knowledge, focusing on moral, political, and aesthetic judgments. The final topic investigates the differences among belief, opinion, faith, knowledge, and truth.



Sounds like busywork to me.