If you're of Irish Protestant ancestry, do you consider yourself Irish American?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh god, people who are hung up on their Irish ancestry are the most annoying ethnic group in America. A typical conversation with them:

Them: “I’m Irish.”
Me: “oh, cool. You don’t have an accent. When did you come over?”

Them: “I was born here.”
Me: “oh. When did your parents emigrate?”

Them: “well, actually they were born here, too.”
Me: “oh. So, your grandparents came over from Ireland?”

Them: “….no.”
Me: “ah.”

My Irish friend visited here and rolled his eyes at all the policemen with their Irish insignia.

Sure they did.

The Irish don’t consider Irish-Americans to be Irish. They consider them to be Americans. Which they are.

American citizens who won’t easily qualify to become Irish citizens but who have Irish ethnic roots. Again, American is not an ethnicity.

Of course "American" is an ethnicity. An ethnicity or ethnic group is a grouping of people who identify with each other on the basis of perceived shared attributes. We have a shared culture and history and live in a distinct geographic region.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh god, people who are hung up on their Irish ancestry are the most annoying ethnic group in America. A typical conversation with them:

Them: “I’m Irish.”
Me: “oh, cool. You don’t have an accent. When did you come over?”

Them: “I was born here.”
Me: “oh. When did your parents emigrate?”

Them: “well, actually they were born here, too.”
Me: “oh. So, your grandparents came over from Ireland?”

Them: “….no.”
Me: “ah.”

My Irish friend visited here and rolled his eyes at all the policemen with their Irish insignia.

Sure they did.

The Irish don’t consider Irish-Americans to be Irish. They consider them to be Americans. Which they are.

Interesting. I guess if you are born and raised here you are American only. Nobody can be a hyphenated American because people from the old country don’t accept you. Does this go for everyone or only European descendants?

American identity can be nuanced. People who are Irish American might be a little different culturally than people who are Italian American. Similiar, both American, but different. Americans appreciate nuance identities, but those nuances are going to be lost on people from Europe or Africa or Asia. Americans are Americans to them. They don't know enough about Americans to appreciate the nuances. It's kind of like Americans being able to distinguish all the English accents that exist. We don't know enough to hear the nuances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh god, people who are hung up on their Irish ancestry are the most annoying ethnic group in America. A typical conversation with them:

Them: “I’m Irish.”
Me: “oh, cool. You don’t have an accent. When did you come over?”

Them: “I was born here.”
Me: “oh. When did your parents emigrate?”

Them: “well, actually they were born here, too.”
Me: “oh. So, your grandparents came over from Ireland?”

Them: “….no.”
Me: “ah.”

You’re an idiot. There is a difference between Irish ethnicity and nationality. I suppose you only consider Kurds as either Turks or Iraqis. The US is full of different from different ethnicities. Do you deny descendants of American slaves claims to Africa? How about Poles who retained their Polish identity when the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was wiped off the map of Europe for 125 years?

Are you saying an American whose great grandparents were born in Ireland and who says they are Irish is actually ethnically Irish?

African-Americans are racially different. They have African genes. I doubt they claim to be ethnically African though.

DP this whole discussion is silly. Americans who say they are Irish mean it in the sense of ancestry. They have Irish ancestry. They are not saying they have Irish citizenship or that they were born and raised in Ireland. They know they are American.

Where I grew up in the midwest, people would say "I'm half Irish, half German." Or "I'm a quarter Polish, and 3/4 Czech." Or "I'm Lithuanian." And they all meant that this is where their immigrant ancestors came from. And yes, in Ireland people roll their eyes over there at Americans use of the phrase, in part because they don't know it's just shorthand for Americans of European descent to talk about their ancestry. Not only those of Irish heritage. Americans are obsessed with their ancestry in ways Europeans tend not to be. Not just those with Irish ancestors.

And anyway, when a popular US president whose ancestors came from Ireland is in office, the Irish go nuts over that and claim him as a long lost son. LOL

At least there are no more signs in the US that "no Irish need apply." There's your reason for whatever clannishness you see among those of Irish (Catholic) descent in the US. You make a group of people "others" and they'll stick together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh god, people who are hung up on their Irish ancestry are the most annoying ethnic group in America. A typical conversation with them:

Them: “I’m Irish.”
Me: “oh, cool. You don’t have an accent. When did you come over?”

Them: “I was born here.”
Me: “oh. When did your parents emigrate?”

Them: “well, actually they were born here, too.”
Me: “oh. So, your grandparents came over from Ireland?”

Them: “….no.”
Me: “ah.”

My Irish friend visited here and rolled his eyes at all the policemen with their Irish insignia.

Sure they did.

The Irish don’t consider Irish-Americans to be Irish. They consider them to be Americans. Which they are.

American citizens who won’t easily qualify to become Irish citizens but who have Irish ethnic roots. Again, American is not an ethnicity.

It’s actually easier than I would have thought to become an Irish citizen.

One of my children, born in the US to US born parents, has dual Irish citizenship as 3 of her 4 Grandparents were born in Ireland/Northern Ireland.

I was somewhat surprised when she was granted Irish citizenship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interestingly Barack Obama's Irish immigrant ancestor was an Irish Protestant.

An Irish Protestant from Kenya?

You think both Obama's parents were Kenyan?

Obama's dad is Luo and from Kenya. Obama's mom was an American of English, Welsh, German, Swiss, and Irish descent.

Obama is a biracial kid from Hawaii.

Yes I know that but apparently the pp I quoted does not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interestingly Barack Obama's Irish immigrant ancestor was an Irish Protestant.

An Irish Protestant from Kenya?

You think both Obama's parents were Kenyan?

Obama's dad is Luo and from Kenya. Obama's mom was an American of English, Welsh, German, Swiss, and Irish descent.

Obama is a biracial kid from Hawaii.

So … by some people’s logic here, he’s also Hawaiian. SMH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh god, people who are hung up on their Irish ancestry are the most annoying ethnic group in America. A typical conversation with them:

Them: “I’m Irish.”
Me: “oh, cool. You don’t have an accent. When did you come over?”

Them: “I was born here.”
Me: “oh. When did your parents emigrate?”

Them: “well, actually they were born here, too.”
Me: “oh. So, your grandparents came over from Ireland?”

Them: “….no.”
Me: “ah.”

My Irish friend visited here and rolled his eyes at all the policemen with their Irish insignia.

Sure they did.

The Irish don’t consider Irish-Americans to be Irish. They consider them to be Americans. Which they are.

American citizens who won’t easily qualify to become Irish citizens but who have Irish ethnic roots. Again, American is not an ethnicity.

It’s actually easier than I would have thought to become an Irish citizen.

One of my children, born in the US to US born parents, has dual Irish citizenship as 3 of her 4 Grandparents were born in Ireland/Northern Ireland.

I was somewhat surprised when she was granted Irish citizenship.

Ditto several other European countries because now that the WWs are over (and many aren’t having to rebuild like they were in the mid-1900s) many are willing to grant citizenship due to a person’s … wait for it … ethnic roots aka ethnicity going back several generations.

[Anonymous]

Is ethnicity the same as ancestry? I thought ethnicity was about common culture, values, etc but it seems others are saying it’s just ancestry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is ethnicity the same as ancestry? I thought ethnicity was about common culture, values, etc but it seems others are saying it’s just ancestry.

Yes — ethnicity is about who your ancestors were not your nationality on your passport. Some countries claim you even after you or your ancestors have become a naturalized US citizen (a bit archaic as it’s really like a claim in your person).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is ethnicity the same as ancestry? I thought ethnicity was about common culture, values, etc but it seems others are saying it’s just ancestry.

Yes — ethnicity is about who your ancestors were not your nationality on your passport. Some countries claim you even after you or your ancestors have become a naturalized US citizen (a bit archaic as it’s really like a claim in your person).

If you define ethnicity purely as descent then anybody who says their ethnicity is English or Scottish is really probably of ‘Northern European’ ethnicity since the UK was colonised repeatedly by people from Northern Europe (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Norse, French). It’s probably the same for anyone from Northern Europe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just consider myself American.

But what race are you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is ethnicity the same as ancestry? I thought ethnicity was about common culture, values, etc but it seems others are saying it’s just ancestry.

Yes — ethnicity is about who your ancestors were not your nationality on your passport. Some countries claim you even after you or your ancestors have become a naturalized US citizen (a bit archaic as it’s really like a claim in your person).

If you define ethnicity purely as descent then anybody who says their ethnicity is English or Scottish is really probably of ‘Northern European’ ethnicity since the UK was colonised repeatedly by people from Northern Europe (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Norse, French). It’s probably the same for anyone from Northern Europe.

So if you were colonized 1000 years ago you have no specific ethnicity anymore? That will be new information for a lot of people in the New World.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh god, people who are hung up on their Irish ancestry are the most annoying ethnic group in America. A typical conversation with them:

Them: “I’m Irish.”
Me: “oh, cool. You don’t have an accent. When did you come over?”

Them: “I was born here.”
Me: “oh. When did your parents emigrate?”

Them: “well, actually they were born here, too.”
Me: “oh. So, your grandparents came over from Ireland?”

Them: “….no.”
Me: “ah.”

You’re an idiot. There is a difference between Irish ethnicity and nationality. I suppose you only consider Kurds as either Turks or Iraqis. The US is full of different from different ethnicities. Do you deny descendants of American slaves claims to Africa? How about Poles who retained their Polish identity when the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was wiped off the map of Europe for 125 years?

Are you saying an American whose great grandparents were born in Ireland and who says they are Irish is actually ethnically Irish?

African-Americans are racially different. They have African genes. I doubt they claim to be ethnically African though.

DP this whole discussion is silly. Americans who say they are Irish mean it in the sense of ancestry. They have Irish ancestry. They are not saying they have Irish citizenship or that they were born and raised in Ireland. They know they are American.

Where I grew up in the midwest, people would say "I'm half Irish, half German." Or "I'm a quarter Polish, and 3/4 Czech." Or "I'm Lithuanian." And they all meant that this is where their immigrant ancestors came from. And yes, in Ireland people roll their eyes over there at Americans use of the phrase, in part because they don't know it's just shorthand for Americans of European descent to talk about their ancestry. Not only those of Irish heritage. Americans are obsessed with their ancestry in ways Europeans tend not to be. Not just those with Irish ancestors.

And anyway, when a popular US president whose ancestors came from Ireland is in office, the Irish go nuts over that and claim him as a long lost son. LOL

At least there are no more signs in the US that "no Irish need apply." There's your reason for whatever clannishness you see among those of Irish (Catholic) descent in the US. You make a group of people "others" and they'll stick together.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh god, people who are hung up on their Irish ancestry are the most annoying ethnic group in America. A typical conversation with them:

Them: “I’m Irish.”
Me: “oh, cool. You don’t have an accent. When did you come over?”

Them: “I was born here.”
Me: “oh. When did your parents emigrate?”

Them: “well, actually they were born here, too.”
Me: “oh. So, your grandparents came over from Ireland?”

Them: “….no.”
Me: “ah.”

My Irish friend visited here and rolled his eyes at all the policemen with their Irish insignia.

Sure they did.

The Irish don’t consider Irish-Americans to be Irish. They consider them to be Americans. Which they are.

Interesting. I guess if you are born and raised here you are American only. Nobody can be a hyphenated American because people from the old country don’t accept you. Does this go for everyone or only European descendants?

American identity can be nuanced. People who are Irish American might be a little different culturally than people who are Italian American. Similiar, both American, but different. Americans appreciate nuance identities, but those nuances are going to be lost on people from Europe or Africa or Asia. Americans are Americans to them. They don't know enough about Americans to appreciate the nuances. It's kind of like Americans being able to distinguish all the English accents that exist. We don't know enough to hear the nuances.

Most national identities are probably nuanced in ways outsiders don’t understand (eg Sicilian vs Piedmontese, Swiss German vs Swiss French). There are often cultural and linguistic differences within a country’s borders. In reality, most nations did not exist at the time people’s ancestors immigrated.

Ethnicity is kind of a clumsy term. It can be defined in different ways so people aren’t always talking about the same thing. In the US, it seems for many people it only refers to descent but not to any cultural connection to another country. I guess Chinese is seen as an ethnicity here but might only be seen as a nationality in China itself given the multitude of languages, religions, etc? Similarly, we might say someone is ethnically Russian but that might not mean anything to someone from its south eastern regions who is Muslim and had an Asiatic appearance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is ethnicity the same as ancestry? I thought ethnicity was about common culture, values, etc but it seems others are saying it’s just ancestry.

Yes — ethnicity is about who your ancestors were not your nationality on your passport. Some countries claim you even after you or your ancestors have become a naturalized US citizen (a bit archaic as it’s really like a claim in your person).

If you define ethnicity purely as descent then anybody who says their ethnicity is English or Scottish is really probably of ‘Northern European’ ethnicity since the UK was colonised repeatedly by people from Northern Europe (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Norse, French). It’s probably the same for anyone from Northern Europe.

So if you were colonized 1000 years ago you have no specific ethnicity anymore? That will be new information for a lot of people in the New World.

Well where exactly do you draw the line if you use the ‘descent’ definition? It’s fuzzy.