I hate Trump, but I get why a huge part of middle America loves him

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The millions of immigrants talking point doesn’t make sense other than as a talking point.

Trump was President for four years. He had control of the house and senate when he came to power. He didn’t fix immigration. Some of the biggest obstacles to fixing immigration come from interests in his party.

So…why do you think he’ll fix it?

This point might have any intellectual resonance if it was “neither candidate currently running has made the progress I want on immigration” but it’s not a pro Trump point.

Unless you’re a troll.

Is this gaslighting? Because illegal migration fell sharply under Turnip. *Sharply*. And the Democrats fought him tooth and nail the entire time. They opposed every single thing he did to control migration. Remember the children in cages they ranted and screamed about, never mind that it started under Obama?

When Biden took office, illegal migration exploded. Don't you remember the first caravan of 100k illegal migrants marching through Mexico telling the whole world they were going for the border and effectively daring Biden to let them in. And he did. And that sent a message to the world.

But it's hard not to believe that the reason illegal crossings have gotten out of control is because the WH really doesn't care and has no interest in doing anything about it because the policy makers and staffers are firm believers in open borders. Which is why they - do nothing - and sue the border states for actually doing something to control the tide of migration.

Regarding Turnip's popularity, when he was president, he by and large didn't do very much. Cut taxes and made noises about the border and the border wall with some noticeable effects, and did a lot of international diplomacy that, intentional or not, corresponded with a world that had no wars or invasions and yet breakthroughs like the Abrahamic Accords. He was derided for making noises about China and Russia that later turned out to be true (remember when the Germans hysterically blew him off when he told them not to build the Nord Stream pipeline as it would only embolden Putin? Har har). But at home, he left people alone. There was no massive swathes of new bureaucracy, new regulations, new policies, no cancel culture, no judging or shaming or pretending to have the higher moral road. He made fun of the progressive left, but he also left them alone at the same time.

One cannot say that about the Democrats under Biden.

Your version of events under Trump is not even close to accurate. But keep living in your alternate fact based universe. Maybe someday you will come back to Earth prime.

If you turn off your phone, 2016-2020 was not a bad time for our country.

I plan on voting for Trump, if he wins the nomination. I say this after voting for Biden.

So you truly believe that Trump will not take revenge and threaten our democracy? Seriously?

DP Nope. All the sky is falling in his first term never came about either. The left has been crying wolf about Trump for a long long time now.

Please google "project 2025" and read the documents and then come back here and give an assessment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The millions of immigrants talking point doesn’t make sense other than as a talking point.

Trump was President for four years. He had control of the house and senate when he came to power. He didn’t fix immigration. Some of the biggest obstacles to fixing immigration come from interests in his party.

So…why do you think he’ll fix it?

This point might have any intellectual resonance if it was “neither candidate currently running has made the progress I want on immigration” but it’s not a pro Trump point.

Unless you’re a troll.

Is this gaslighting? Because illegal migration fell sharply under Turnip. *Sharply*. And the Democrats fought him tooth and nail the entire time. They opposed every single thing he did to control migration. Remember the children in cages they ranted and screamed about, never mind that it started under Obama?

When Biden took office, illegal migration exploded. Don't you remember the first caravan of 100k illegal migrants marching through Mexico telling the whole world they were going for the border and effectively daring Biden to let them in. And he did. And that sent a message to the world.

But it's hard not to believe that the reason illegal crossings have gotten out of control is because the WH really doesn't care and has no interest in doing anything about it because the policy makers and staffers are firm believers in open borders. Which is why they - do nothing - and sue the border states for actually doing something to control the tide of migration.

Regarding Turnip's popularity, when he was president, he by and large didn't do very much. Cut taxes and made noises about the border and the border wall with some noticeable effects, and did a lot of international diplomacy that, intentional or not, corresponded with a world that had no wars or invasions and yet breakthroughs like the Abrahamic Accords. He was derided for making noises about China and Russia that later turned out to be true (remember when the Germans hysterically blew him off when he told them not to build the Nord Stream pipeline as it would only embolden Putin? Har har). But at home, he left people alone. There was no massive swathes of new bureaucracy, new regulations, new policies, no cancel culture, no judging or shaming or pretending to have the higher moral road. He made fun of the progressive left, but he also left them alone at the same time.

One cannot say that about the Democrats under Biden.

Your version of events under Trump is not even close to accurate. But keep living in your alternate fact based universe. Maybe someday you will come back to Earth prime.

If you turn off your phone, 2016-2020 was not a bad time for our country.

I plan on voting for Trump, if he wins the nomination. I say this after voting for Biden.

So you truly believe that Trump will not take revenge and threaten our democracy? Seriously?

I am not the PP but I agree and plan to vote Trump. And no, I do not think Trump will seek revenge or threaten our democracy. That is not something I am worried about. I am very worried about immigration and crime and both of those are actually happening.

You don't need to worry about it because you are a white, straight Christian. The rest of us are hearing his words and threats and take them seriously, because he is not joking. But you go on living your privilege.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The millions of immigrants talking point doesn’t make sense other than as a talking point.

Trump was President for four years. He had control of the house and senate when he came to power. He didn’t fix immigration. Some of the biggest obstacles to fixing immigration come from interests in his party.

So…why do you think he’ll fix it?

This point might have any intellectual resonance if it was “neither candidate currently running has made the progress I want on immigration” but it’s not a pro Trump point.

Unless you’re a troll.

Is this gaslighting? Because illegal migration fell sharply under Turnip. *Sharply*. And the Democrats fought him tooth and nail the entire time. They opposed every single thing he did to control migration. Remember the children in cages they ranted and screamed about, never mind that it started under Obama?

When Biden took office, illegal migration exploded. Don't you remember the first caravan of 100k illegal migrants marching through Mexico telling the whole world they were going for the border and effectively daring Biden to let them in. And he did. And that sent a message to the world.

But it's hard not to believe that the reason illegal crossings have gotten out of control is because the WH really doesn't care and has no interest in doing anything about it because the policy makers and staffers are firm believers in open borders. Which is why they - do nothing - and sue the border states for actually doing something to control the tide of migration.

Regarding Turnip's popularity, when he was president, he by and large didn't do very much. Cut taxes and made noises about the border and the border wall with some noticeable effects, and did a lot of international diplomacy that, intentional or not, corresponded with a world that had no wars or invasions and yet breakthroughs like the Abrahamic Accords. He was derided for making noises about China and Russia that later turned out to be true (remember when the Germans hysterically blew him off when he told them not to build the Nord Stream pipeline as it would only embolden Putin? Har har). But at home, he left people alone. There was no massive swathes of new bureaucracy, new regulations, new policies, no cancel culture, no judging or shaming or pretending to have the higher moral road. He made fun of the progressive left, but he also left them alone at the same time.

One cannot say that about the Democrats under Biden.

Your version of events under Trump is not even close to accurate. But keep living in your alternate fact based universe. Maybe someday you will come back to Earth prime.

If you turn off your phone, 2016-2020 was not a bad time for our country.

I plan on voting for Trump, if he wins the nomination. I say this after voting for Biden.

So you truly believe that Trump will not take revenge and threaten our democracy? Seriously?

DP Nope. All the sky is falling in his first term never came about either. The left has been crying wolf about Trump for a long long time now.

All the crap they warned about Trump ends up happening under Biden. WW3 and world on fire. Hyperinflation and declining lifespans.

World is on fire because Russia and Iran are stoking it.
Hyperinflation is a result of COVID and Biden has been more successful than anyone in terms of getting it under control.
Declining lifespans, again a result of COVID as well as declining healthcare because the GOP keeps underfunding or defunding programs that help extend good health and medical practices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a typical educated and wealthy DC-area striver. Atheist, support women's right to choose, value the diversity of cultures in this world, etc. I wouldn't say no to a tax cut, lol. I'm going to be good whoever gets elected.

We gotta face facts, though. Most of America is not like DC. It's hugely white, under-educated, under-employed people, who have been truly screwed over by progressive policies.

They have to compete with millions upon millions of lower cost illegal migrants flooding across the borders. They have been penalized by the color of their skin when applying to college and jobs. Suicide, depression, opioids, wars they have to fight and die in...it has gotten quite bad.

Once upon a time, democrats valued this massive part of America. Do they still? Can they?

Disingenuous schill

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Objectively, as a Dem, I am anti Trump NOT because of all his policies but because of who he is. He's very unbalanced, totally without mores and a complete buffoon. Hearing what he says and not just past actions but current ones, he's just not rational and capable of running any organization.

However, I have to say that he can hire other people as long as they are competent to do all the work. POTUS doesn't do the work. He represents the US and he makes critical decisions impacting all of us. So because of this, I have fears.

I agree with PP that a lot of what he's able to actually do/change is moot. He did not kill us all in the first administration and he won't do it if re-elected. What I worry about is what he does to the morale of this country, our influence globally. I also am pro choice and a I'm not with him on immigration insofar as to be isolationist which essentially is his platform.

On the immigration front - it's less to do with competition for hires and more to do with the fact that a lot of immigrants will work their ass off doing stuff non immigrants won't. You see the restaurant dishwashers? You see the landscapers? You see the nannies? All immigrants. The business owners, the tech specialists - all immigrants. I hire people for a living and 95% of all the talent I can place for my clients have a last name that is Asian, Russian, Latino or African. The only jobs that really below to your non-immigrant are BD/sales and marketing to an extent, corp finance jobs.

As a country, US is made of immigrants. You cannot limit immigration - that's the gist of the US and its strength. Bezos, Musk - immigrant backgrounds. Google co-founders - immigrant backgrounds. You can approach immigration in a way that's legal but you can't just outlaw it altogether, that's totally unrealistic because the US econ functions with high paying and low paying jobs both. The immigrants are willing to work up in a way that a lot of non-immigrants will not.

So I don't like Trump and prob won't vote for him but I understand like OP, why he has his fans. I don't agree with his platform but politically speaking, he's just another candidate, he's not the devil. Personally, I think he is but I think a lot of people are willing to overlook this point if they buy into his political platform.

He is only going to hire adherents and henchmen going forward. There are no reasonable, educated people who will work in a Trump second term. He will pardon the Oath Keepers and bring them into his administration He is telling us what he is going to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What have Democrats done to actually help poor people of any race? They allow in millions of migrants to flood the market with cheap labor, have public school teachers focused on everything except teaching marketable skills, push expensive electric vehicles the poor can’t afford, expensive gas, soft-on-criminals policies make the streets & public transit dangerous, push the perception that racism is so bad poor people don’t have a chance without the government’s help…..

Don’t a lot of GOP farmers hire these illegals?

Yes as well as GOP slaughterhouse owners and GOP owned fisheries etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP - I'm the PP of the above. Again - I disagree with his platform. There are those I respectfully disagree with who do buy into GOP plans across the board. The prob with all of us who are v GOP and Trump specifically is we insult those who are pro GOP/Trump. Do you hear yourself? You actually are no better than Trump.

You need to respect someone who disagrees with you politically. I've made it clear that I agree that Trump sucks. But you cannot tell me I suck because I get why other people don't feel he sucks too! And you can't tell them they suck because they disagree with you! This is how Trump wins.

If you think you are so much better than all of his supports and me who isn't a Trump supporter, you are dead wrong. He will win because of people like you. The way to persuade is not to belittle and insult. The way to win over a Trump supporter is by sharing perspective why his platform doesn't make sense.

You confuse his platform with him. Is it him that you hate or the GOP platform you hate? Regardless of Trump or anyone else, GOP platform stands. So this thread is about Trump not being a Dem. You my friend sound like you are just one hard core Dem who just hates all people who are not Dem!

Trump has an agenda of hate, and my demographic is one of the targets of his hate, so no, if someone supports Trump, they support the hate being inflicted upon me, so I cannot and will not support or respect that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The millions of immigrants talking point doesn’t make sense other than as a talking point.

Trump was President for four years. He had control of the house and senate when he came to power. He didn’t fix immigration. Some of the biggest obstacles to fixing immigration come from interests in his party.

So…why do you think he’ll fix it?

This point might have any intellectual resonance if it was “neither candidate currently running has made the progress I want on immigration” but it’s not a pro Trump point.

Unless you’re a troll.

Is this gaslighting? Because illegal migration fell sharply under Turnip. *Sharply*. And the Democrats fought him tooth and nail the entire time. They opposed every single thing he did to control migration. Remember the children in cages they ranted and screamed about, never mind that it started under Obama?

When Biden took office, illegal migration exploded. Don't you remember the first caravan of 100k illegal migrants marching through Mexico telling the whole world they were going for the border and effectively daring Biden to let them in. And he did. And that sent a message to the world.

But it's hard not to believe that the reason illegal crossings have gotten out of control is because the WH really doesn't care and has no interest in doing anything about it because the policy makers and staffers are firm believers in open borders. Which is why they - do nothing - and sue the border states for actually doing something to control the tide of migration.

Regarding Turnip's popularity, when he was president, he by and large didn't do very much. Cut taxes and made noises about the border and the border wall with some noticeable effects, and did a lot of international diplomacy that, intentional or not, corresponded with a world that had no wars or invasions and yet breakthroughs like the Abrahamic Accords. He was derided for making noises about China and Russia that later turned out to be true (remember when the Germans hysterically blew him off when he told them not to build the Nord Stream pipeline as it would only embolden Putin? Har har). But at home, he left people alone. There was no massive swathes of new bureaucracy, new regulations, new policies, no cancel culture, no judging or shaming or pretending to have the higher moral road. He made fun of the progressive left, but he also left them alone at the same time.

One cannot say that about the Democrats under Biden.

Your version of events under Trump is not even close to accurate. But keep living in your alternate fact based universe. Maybe someday you will come back to Earth prime.

If you turn off your phone, 2016-2020 was not a bad time for our country.

I plan on voting for Trump, if he wins the nomination. I say this after voting for Biden.

So you truly believe that Trump will not take revenge and threaten our democracy? Seriously?

DP Nope. All the sky is falling in his first term never came about either. The left has been crying wolf about Trump for a long long time now.

All the crap they warned about Trump ends up happening under Biden. WW3 and world on fire. Hyperinflation and declining lifespans.

World is on fire because Russia and Iran are stoking it.
Hyperinflation is a result of COVID and Biden has been more successful than anyone in terms of getting it under control.
Declining lifespans, again a result of COVID as well as declining healthcare because the GOP keeps underfunding or defunding programs that help extend good health and medical practices.

+1. Add in China to take down the U.S. and western influence

Only stupid people can't tell this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a typical educated and wealthy DC-area striver. Atheist, support women's right to choose, value the diversity of cultures in this world, etc. I wouldn't say no to a tax cut, lol. I'm going to be good whoever gets elected.

We gotta face facts, though. Most of America is not like DC. It's hugely white, under-educated, under-employed people, who have been truly screwed over by progressive policies.

They have to compete with millions upon millions of lower cost illegal migrants flooding across the borders. They have been penalized by the color of their skin when applying to college and jobs. Suicide, depression, opioids, wars they have to fight and die in...it has gotten quite bad.

Once upon a time, democrats valued this massive part of America. Do they still? Can they?

This is total Bullsh---. Blue collar workers -like my ENTIRE RUST BELT FAMILY- is not competing with low cost immigrants. It is just not happening.
They are also not being penalized by the color of their skin. What a victim mentality.

Dems support work life policies, unions, universal health care, loan forgiveness . . . . all things that generally benefit this group that you refer to. GOP wants to . . . . lower taxes on the rich. Whoopedi-doo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump’s supporters are not competing with undocumented immigrants. His supporters are the people who employ undocumented immigrants.

This. I live in white flyover country. The immigrants aren’t taking our jobs. There are job openings everywhere with competitive pay and signing bonuses.

My husband has been laid off for two months and cannot find a job. He’s never had that problem before. He’s in the tech field and very talented but it seems the odds are stacked against him.

Well, those coming across the border aren't in competition for any job in the tech industry. So, just maybe, hasn't found a job because he doesn't qualify for any available job

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm reading this book right now When McKinsey Comes to Town. McKinsey's consultants, largely made up on uber elitists from ivy league schools who live on the coasts, have for years been the architects of wealth inequality. McKinsey consultants were the ones who came up with idea that CEOs needed to make 300x the average worker. It was McKinsey consultants who constantly pushed the idea of off shoring and downsizing that have gutted manufacturing and many middle class jobs. McKinsey consultants are also the ones who also worked for the FDA while simultaneously consulting for Purdue to supercharge sales of opioids. And who paid the price and had their families and lives ruined? All of the poor in those areas the disgusting elitists call flyover country. In another example, McKisney also consulted for the Chinese CCP on artificial island building in the South China Sea while working for the US department of defense. And who'll be sent into the meat grinder when there's a conflict in the SCS? All of the poor people and their kids. There are just so many examples in the book - it's so disturbing.

And people wonder why huge swaths of America hate the liberal costal elitists. I mean just look how many McKinsey almuni infect our govt like virus (Pete Buttgeig, Lael Brainard, etc.). Trump has appeal because he isn't from the same swamp producing and employing the likes of McKinsey consultsnts that have been ruining the country for the last 50 years and creating massive wealth inequality. It's largely the elite college educated, urban Democrats who choose to go work for companies like McKinsey, Wall St. etc. that have been gutting their jobs and destroying the livelihood of the middle class.

How does the likes of Trump remedy any of that. He comes from a rich family, has similar scrupulous business practices of screwing the people that actually work for him, is entirely financed through foreign companies, pays zero taxes, pushed thru tax incentives for large corps while penalizing the middle class, did nothing for healthcare other than strip women of body autonomy, didn't actually push thru new immigrations laws other than building part of a wall, striped environmental laws allowing companies to put toxic chemicals in our air, land and water... That is no way that says to me he is in touch with, has done/can do anything for the normal working person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t vote for Trump in 16 or 20 and probably won’t in 24, but if I’m being honest life was good under the Trump admin. But so was it under Obama.

I remember people crying over the Trump win and just couldn’t wrap my head around it at the time. I think a lot of people just felt bad, but by the numbers, life was pretty good until COVID. And I suspect if trump were to win, my life won’t be much different.

I do lean conservative on the culture war issues though and the Dems have gone a little off the rails there, so I’ve been voting conservative in my locals.

The Titanic was an awesome cruise until it wasn't.

I’m a POC that came from nothing and on the cusp of upper middle class. My life was fine during Trump. BUT, I did think twice about trying not to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. So there were certain places I wouldn’t go unless I was in a group with my white friends. I also decided to do more international travel. That wasn’t because of Trump, I had finally cracked $150k, paid off my student loans in 2017 and I have no kids. So I had resources to do more. 4-5 international trips a year, clinging closer to my white friends, largely bypassing rural America, and tuning out news—yeah I didn’t notice a difference in my life.

But then I question why I have to make these adjustments to protect myself. Never thought about these things as much before 2016.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm reading this book right now When McKinsey Comes to Town. McKinsey's consultants, largely made up on uber elitists from ivy league schools who live on the coasts, have for years been the architects of wealth inequality. McKinsey consultants were the ones who came up with idea that CEOs needed to make 300x the average worker. It was McKinsey consultants who constantly pushed the idea of off shoring and downsizing that have gutted manufacturing and many middle class jobs. McKinsey consultants are also the ones who also worked for the FDA while simultaneously consulting for Purdue to supercharge sales of opioids. And who paid the price and had their families and lives ruined? All of the poor in those areas the disgusting elitists call flyover country. In another example, McKisney also consulted for the Chinese CCP on artificial island building in the South China Sea while working for the US department of defense. And who'll be sent into the meat grinder when there's a conflict in the SCS? All of the poor people and their kids. There are just so many examples in the book - it's so disturbing.

And people wonder why huge swaths of America hate the liberal costal elitists. I mean just look how many McKinsey almuni infect our govt like virus (Pete Buttgeig, Lael Brainard, etc.). Trump has appeal because he isn't from the same swamp producing and employing the likes of McKinsey consultsnts that have been ruining the country for the last 50 years and creating massive wealth inequality. It's largely the elite college educated, urban Democrats who choose to go work for companies like McKinsey, Wall St. etc. that have been gutting their jobs and destroying the livelihood of the middle class.

Are you sure there are not a good share of Republicans there? My bleeding heart liberal friends joined the peace corps or Teach For America . They took public defender jobs or environmental justice positions. Nothing like the corporate enablers you are describing.

For you and the other PP scoffing at this: do you actually live in a wealthy neighborhood of NYC, SF or the DMV? Do you know a lot of college kids or failing that, the deans or profs at the kinds of schools that produce consultants? Because no, most of the kids hired by the largest consulting cos are not Republicans — not that it matters much.

Everything in the original post is true; for people like me in hardcore blue enclaves who are what Democrats used to be, anti-war and anti-military spending, and for protection of labor, our values are not truly represented in the upper echelons of the party any more. And that does not mean I’m voting for trump nor that I want him to win on any level.

We are still anti-war. Which is why we support diplomacy and things like providing resources to allies so they fight for democracy. Why is this hard to understand?

Wow, thank you so much for the nuances you’ve provided! Shucks, do I feel foolish. I thought that refusing to condition unapproved/Congress-bypassed ceaseless provision of munitions and money to Israel, was in fact not going to slow down the war but you’ve certainly got me.

Some of you are determined to try and a-hole yourselves out of conversation and ultimately out of voters. Not everyone here is a shill, and some of us have had genuine discontent with the party we grew up in and grew up voting for. Honestly, for me it’s tragic at this point. I am appalled by what’s happened in Gaza, I am tired of being sneered at for this. I have the privilege of sending DC to an excellent school, and I also am really troubled by the fact that a poorly funded public was forced to shutter for a day to create shelter for migrants (NYC) while FULLY acknowledging that Abbott and DeSantis shoulder this along with Biden and mayor Adams.

Not everyone is ultimately going to be convinced that not being Trump is enough, and for some, the war and border issues are going to be dissuasive. I think Biden will win, but he needs at this point to run a great campaign in the swing states.

[Anonymous]

Trump has a great advantage. He’s quick, very funny and great at destroying his opponent with their weaknesses. He also immediately identifies wedge issues that hurt the opposition and he doesn’t stop hammering them. He informs everybody of issues, Democrat weaknesses and evil characters that the mainstream media refuses to highlight. Because of that he is a major news provider and people can’t wait to hear news nobody else gives them. He’s probably the most famous person in the world for the last 50 years and a once in a lifetime character/ talent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Trump has a great advantage. He’s quick, very funny and great at destroying his opponent with their weaknesses. He also immediately identifies wedge issues that hurt the opposition and he doesn’t stop hammering them. He informs everybody of issues, Democrat weaknesses and evil characters that the mainstream media refuses to highlight. Because of that he is a major news provider and people can’t wait to hear news nobody else gives them. He’s probably the most famous person in the world for the last 50 years and a once in a lifetime character/ talent.

+1

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KH5sts-fxAU