Sorry DCUM middle class, your kids are screwed for college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Screwed from getting into an Ivy in order to get a Federal job? Kids can go to GMU if they want to make $180K. I'm not sure of what we're being screwed out of.

Ofc you know. It's kids who work just as hard as kids with hooks. Some of that is simply due to family circumstances (kids can't change the fact they're not first gen). And yet, other kids get preference -in terms of admittance and maybe aid- because of those things, and get them at top schools.

You think GMU or Radford or Nova are so great? Why don't you send your kid there?

I don't understand why people direct their bitterness toward the first gen ed kids and not the loaded legacy types.

Some UMC parents in the DMV stressing about costs may have been 1st Gen kids in their time but they weren’t loaded legacies.

It’s “I got this help but my kids won’t get it” even though their kids are a massive success story.

I was a full amount Pell Grant kid. The fact they I can now cover full in-State tuition or contribute 50% at a private blows my mind.

You can be amazed at what you do have or bitter at what you don’t have.

The last sentence is so spot on. I'm also a FAFSA kid from back in the day with the max Pell Grant. I can fall into the bitter, but really try to live in the amazed space.

[Anonymous]

FAFSA previously benefitted those who went on extravagant vacations and penalized those who scrimped to save. Not sure how new FAFSA works.

My friend ended up quitting her $70k job 5 years before her kids went into college - they did the math with a financial planner and if all 3 of her kids were going to college determined they would almost all get a free ride without her salary and they could rely on her husbands only. She picked up off the books babysitting work and now with 3 kids in college figure they are ahead at least $200k by her NOT working.

Crazy…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/college-acceptance-rates-ivy-league-schools-wealth.html

Basically it seems athlete, monied donor, first gen (the new proxy for race), legacy are about it.

I hate the examples that so many books give for how the balance the athletic “allotment” - they may need a piccolo player in the band. I was in the band at an Ivy; it’s run by the students and there is zero interaction with administrators other than permission to play at games and rent buses. It is nothing like the bureaucracy advocating for athletics. I guess MAYBE at a Big10 school with world class marching band? But theater and music and debate teams at T25 schools aren’t coordinating with admissions about their future slots or participating population, that’s just a polite fiction, there just isn’t enough administrative support to even make those assessments let alone factor into admittance.

I think the article is actually under reporting the dead zone salary - $222k in manhattan?! I’m guessing probably $150k to $500k — they are looking for donors and two Fed employees making $180k aren’t going to be writing big checks.

Policy debate teams at some good schools get slots. This was a long time ago, but when I was looking, Dartmouth, Emory, and Northwestern all had to pull with admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we’ve been complaining about that here for years. That’s why our high stat, heavy EC, volunteer kids mostly end up taking a scholarship to Big State U. Our kids are too privileged for a hand up and not privileged enough for a handout. No one cares about them.

Your kid’s education was subsidized both by the state and by a scholarship but you didn’t get a handout?

No, they earned it with high stats and crazy hard work and they raise the test score and GPA stats for the school in return. As opposed to just the pure luck of being born into a wealthy or political family and getting an Ivy education that will continue to make them more wealthy than their state U middle class peers even if they had lower stats.

PP, if you are teaching your kids this attitude, that is why they will be doomed, not because they went to a state university instead of an Ivy.

Leave it some DCUM troll to defend idiots like George Bush getting an Ivy League education just because he belongs to the lucky sperm club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we’ve been complaining about that here for years. That’s why our high stat, heavy EC, volunteer kids mostly end up taking a scholarship to Big State U. Our kids are too privileged for a hand up and not privileged enough for a handout. No one cares about them.

I feel like you may have missed the spirit of that word "volunteer" on account of maybe being kind of a selfish and terrible person?

I'm in the same donut hole for salary you are--only worse, actually, because I bet we have less cash. I value education enough to take out loans to send my kid to the best possible school they can attend. We applied to state schools, but I'm not convinced they're the best option. And certainly not the default because I'm whining about how poor I am... when I'm not.

I’m not sure who you’re replying to but wow, if it’s this, you sure are adding a lot of your imagination to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FAFSA previously benefitted those who went on extravagant vacations and penalized those who scrimped to save. Not sure how new FAFSA works.

My friend ended up quitting her $70k job 5 years before her kids went into college - they did the math with a financial planner and if all 3 of her kids were going to college determined they would almost all get a free ride without her salary and they could rely on her husbands only. She picked up off the books babysitting work and now with 3 kids in college figure they are ahead at least $200k by her NOT working.

Crazy…

Someone always “has a friend” or “knows a guy” (it’s never them) who scams their way into free college and yet even though it’s so simple tens of thousands of people a year are not doing this perfectly legal trick.

It’s like the mythical welfare people buying lobster with food stamps or collecting benefits in a Cadillac (does not happen 99.999999999% of the time).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FAFSA previously benefitted those who went on extravagant vacations and penalized those who scrimped to save. Not sure how new FAFSA works.

My friend ended up quitting her $70k job 5 years before her kids went into college - they did the math with a financial planner and if all 3 of her kids were going to college determined they would almost all get a free ride without her salary and they could rely on her husbands only. She picked up off the books babysitting work and now with 3 kids in college figure they are ahead at least $200k by her NOT working.

Crazy…

Someone always “has a friend” or “knows a guy” (it’s never them) who scams their way into free college and yet even though it’s so simple tens of thousands of people a year are not doing this perfectly legal trick.

It’s like the mythical welfare people buying lobster with food stamps or collecting benefits in a Cadillac (does not happen 99.999999999% of the time).

.

I am the poster who posted this. We also ran the numbers in our house and DH makes $25k too much for us to pull the same thing off. We ran our numbers through two separate counselors and it pretty much confirmed exactly what my friend said. We live in the metro area so can’t pull that off. She is in the middle of nowhere PA and can pull it off living on $120k plus $ on the side from babysitting.

So if you don’t live in DCUM or metro regions you can in fact pull it off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FAFSA previously benefitted those who went on extravagant vacations and penalized those who scrimped to save. Not sure how new FAFSA works.

My friend ended up quitting her $70k job 5 years before her kids went into college - they did the math with a financial planner and if all 3 of her kids were going to college determined they would almost all get a free ride without her salary and they could rely on her husbands only. She picked up off the books babysitting work and now with 3 kids in college figure they are ahead at least $200k by her NOT working.

Crazy…

Someone always “has a friend” or “knows a guy” (it’s never them) who scams their way into free college and yet even though it’s so simple tens of thousands of people a year are not doing this perfectly legal trick.

It’s like the mythical welfare people buying lobster with food stamps or collecting benefits in a Cadillac (does not happen 99.999999999% of the time).

.

I am the poster who posted this. We also ran the numbers in our house and DH makes $25k too much for us to pull the same thing off. We ran our numbers through two separate counselors and it pretty much confirmed exactly what my friend said. We live in the metro area so can’t pull that off. She is in the middle of nowhere PA and can pull it off living on $120k plus $ on the side from babysitting.

So if you don’t live in DCUM or metro regions you can in fact pull it off.

$120k is a ton of money in “middle of nowhere PA” so in fact you can only “pull it off” if you are already high income and the change will put you just below the cutoff for need-based aid.

But people making $120k don’t get need based free rides or even giant grant packages in most cases, this is just financial optimization to save on some marginal costs.

Assuming your household can take a 40% pay cut and still come out ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FAFSA previously benefitted those who went on extravagant vacations and penalized those who scrimped to save. Not sure how new FAFSA works.

My friend ended up quitting her $70k job 5 years before her kids went into college - they did the math with a financial planner and if all 3 of her kids were going to college determined they would almost all get a free ride without her salary and they could rely on her husbands only. She picked up off the books babysitting work and now with 3 kids in college figure they are ahead at least $200k by her NOT working.

Crazy…

Someone always “has a friend” or “knows a guy” (it’s never them) who scams their way into free college and yet even though it’s so simple tens of thousands of people a year are not doing this perfectly legal trick.

It’s like the mythical welfare people buying lobster with food stamps or collecting benefits in a Cadillac (does not happen 99.999999999% of the time).

.

I am the poster who posted this. We also ran the numbers in our house and DH makes $25k too much for us to pull the same thing off. We ran our numbers through two separate counselors and it pretty much confirmed exactly what my friend said. We live in the metro area so can’t pull that off. She is in the middle of nowhere PA and can pull it off living on $120k plus $ on the side from babysitting.

So if you don’t live in DCUM or metro regions you can in fact pull it off.

Many of us live off that income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FAFSA previously benefitted those who went on extravagant vacations and penalized those who scrimped to save. Not sure how new FAFSA works.

My friend ended up quitting her $70k job 5 years before her kids went into college - they did the math with a financial planner and if all 3 of her kids were going to college determined they would almost all get a free ride without her salary and they could rely on her husbands only. She picked up off the books babysitting work and now with 3 kids in college figure they are ahead at least $200k by her NOT working.

Crazy…

What colleges are we talking about? I mean, literally, 97% of colleges won't give you a free ride at that income. I assume the vast majority of kids even where your friend lives end up going to a regional state college where there is little aid for anyone.

I guess you have to be lucky enough to live in the middle of nowhere, earn in probably the top 3% of incomes for middle of nowhere, and have kids that can get accepted to Top 20 schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The whole system needs to be torn down at this point. Admission should be based on academic merit, period, and it should be free for any family making less than $150k / year. The flip side is we probably need to get rid of 2/3 of the schools and rebuild our trades. Federal student loans caused this problem, but too many now depend on them to get rid of them. This will never happen, of course.

What would be the point of getting rid of 60% of institutions of higher learning? Most serve local students who otherwise wouldn’t be able to access a four year degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Screwed from getting into an Ivy in order to get a Federal job? Kids can go to GMU if they want to make $180K. I'm not sure of what we're being screwed out of.

Ofc you know. It's kids who work just as hard as kids with hooks. Some of that is simply due to family circumstances (kids can't change the fact they're not first gen). And yet, other kids get preference -in terms of admittance and maybe aid- because of those things, and get them at top schools.

You think GMU or Radford or Nova are so great? Why don't you send your kid there?

I don't understand why people direct their bitterness toward the first gen ed kids and not the loaded legacy types.

Some UMC parents in the DMV stressing about costs may have been 1st Gen kids in their time but they weren’t loaded legacies.

It’s “I got this help but my kids won’t get it” even though their kids are a massive success story.

I was a full amount Pell Grant kid. The fact they I can now cover full in-State tuition or contribute 50% at a private blows my mind.

You can be amazed at what you do have or bitter at what you don’t have.

My husband a poor Pell Grant kid who attended a top 10 University with just very few loans is absolutely amazed we are full freight on the hook for $90k/year if our kids choose the same place---though they also did away with legacy which infuriates him even more. Someone in his family finally got it an in--just when that door shuts.

I have been telling him for years that is why me and my two siblings went to in-state public schools. We were a donut hole family. My parents weren't going to be able to afford that huge sticker price for private and they advised against mammoth loans.

Until they go through it with their own kids, they don't get it. No more looking down your nose at us state school kids. Lol - he never did that - but he really didn't realize the choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Screwed because you're obsessed with colleges where it's statistically unlikely to be accepted?

Really, it's a self-imposed situation. If you just look beyond the few dozen schools that are like that and get excited about the hundreds (thousands?) of others, this process isn't nearly as stressful.

Right, I realize my kids don't have a shot at top 25 schools. But, there are plenty of schools they can go to that will get them a good education and put them on a nice path in life.

The only people freaking out are those who have totally gone down the "prestige" rabbit hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we’ve been complaining about that here for years. That’s why our high stat, heavy EC, volunteer kids mostly end up taking a scholarship to Big State U. Our kids are too privileged for a hand up and not privileged enough for a handout. No one cares about them.

Your kid’s education was subsidized both by the state and by a scholarship but you didn’t get a handout?

No, they earned it with high stats and crazy hard work and they raise the test score and GPA stats for the school in return. As opposed to just the pure luck of being born into a wealthy or political family and getting an Ivy education that will continue to make them more wealthy than their state U middle class peers even if they had lower stats.

PP, if you are teaching your kids this attitude, that is why they will be doomed, not because they went to a state university instead of an Ivy.

Leave it some DCUM troll to defend idiots like George Bush getting an Ivy League education just because he belongs to the lucky sperm club.

And now we all know Bush one and two (like Clinton and Obuma) were a big part of the evil “one world order”. You shall eat zée bugs and be happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FAFSA previously benefitted those who went on extravagant vacations and penalized those who scrimped to save. Not sure how new FAFSA works.

My friend ended up quitting her $70k job 5 years before her kids went into college - they did the math with a financial planner and if all 3 of her kids were going to college determined they would almost all get a free ride without her salary and they could rely on her husbands only. She picked up off the books babysitting work and now with 3 kids in college figure they are ahead at least $200k by her NOT working.

Crazy…

What colleges are we talking about? I mean, literally, 97% of colleges won't give you a free ride at that income. I assume the vast majority of kids even where your friend lives end up going to a regional state college where there is little aid for anyone.

I guess you have to be lucky enough to live in the middle of nowhere, earn in probably the top 3% of incomes for middle of nowhere, and have kids that can get accepted to Top 20 schools.

Free rides to Columbia and Colgate.

They were asked to move to PA for work - got a moving bonus plus maintained their salary. So they know they were lucky. They did not have much saved for college since they were in manhattan- so by moving they more than doubled their salary from a COLA perspective.

They went to talk to a financial advisor about best way to invest new windfall in a 529 - that is when they were advised that if they thought kids would go to top schools and if they could live off just his income it would be better for her to quit her job.