Sorry DCUM middle class, your kids are screwed for college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we’ve been complaining about that here for years. That’s why our high stat, heavy EC, volunteer kids mostly end up taking a scholarship to Big State U. Our kids are too privileged for a hand up and not privileged enough for a handout. No one cares about them.

Your kid’s education was subsidized both by the state and by a scholarship but you didn’t get a handout?

No, they earned it with high stats and crazy hard work and they raise the test score and GPA stats for the school in return. As opposed to just the pure luck of being born into a wealthy or political family and getting an Ivy education that will continue to make them more wealthy than their state U middle class peers even if they had lower stats.

Well I’m glad you think your kid is special but nobody else does.

They can definitely be rewarded for their superb work with massive merit aid at the University of Alabama or even full scholarships at many midrange (but very nice) private schools that cost $55k a year and not $90k a year.

Tim Cook, who is CEO of the richest corporation in human history, went to Auburn.

The current President of the United States went to U Delaware. The VP went to Howard. The Speaker of the House went to Louisiana State.

Success comes from talent and work, nobody hands it out at Yale.

Not sure why you enjoy being such an a$$ but you’re otherwise almost adorably naive.

Plenty of highly successful people did not attend T25 undergrads. Ultimately most of life is about what you do once you get to college and beyond, not where you went.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Screwed from getting into an Ivy in order to get a Federal job? Kids can go to GMU if they want to make $180K. I'm not sure of what we're being screwed out of.

Ofc you know. It's kids who work just as hard as kids with hooks. Some of that is simply due to family circumstances (kids can't change the fact they're not first gen). And yet, other kids get preference -in terms of admittance and maybe aid- because of those things, and get them at top schools.

You think GMU or Radford or Nova are so great? Why don't you send your kid there?

I don't understand why people direct their bitterness toward the first gen ed kids and not the loaded legacy types.

Some UMC parents in the DMV stressing about costs may have been 1st Gen kids in their time but they weren’t loaded legacies.

It’s “I got this help but my kids won’t get it” even though their kids are a massive success story.

I was a full amount Pell Grant kid. The fact they I can now cover full in-State tuition or contribute 50% at a private blows my mind.

You can be amazed at what you do have or bitter at what you don’t have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Screwed because you're obsessed with colleges where it's statistically unlikely to be accepted?

Really, it's a self-imposed situation. If you just look beyond the few dozen schools that are like that and get excited about the hundreds (thousands?) of others, this process isn't nearly as stressful.

This x1000

My DD is going to a state school and got enough merit to cut the tuition in half and she couldn’t be more excited.

And that is what most kids do. Or look in the 25-50 range and find a private school that gives merit. Or just slightly beyond in the 50-100 range, and if your kid has the stats for T25, they will get excellent merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Screwed from getting into an Ivy in order to get a Federal job? Kids can go to GMU if they want to make $180K. I'm not sure of what we're being screwed out of.

Ofc you know. It's kids who work just as hard as kids with hooks. Some of that is simply due to family circumstances (kids can't change the fact they're not first gen). And yet, other kids get preference -in terms of admittance and maybe aid- because of those things, and get them at top schools.

You think GMU or Radford or Nova are so great? Why don't you send your kid there?

There is a whole range of schools between Ivy/T25 and Radford or Nova. If your kid has stats for the T25, I can assure you they will get into almost every school ranked 50+ (Radford is 304). So that gives you ~254 schools to apply to, get acceptances and choose from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we’ve been complaining about that here for years. That’s why our high stat, heavy EC, volunteer kids mostly end up taking a scholarship to Big State U. Our kids are too privileged for a hand up and not privileged enough for a handout. No one cares about them.

I feel like you may have missed the spirit of that word "volunteer" on account of maybe being kind of a selfish and terrible person?

I'm in the same donut hole for salary you are--only worse, actually, because I bet we have less cash. I value education enough to take out loans to send my kid to the best possible school they can attend. We applied to state schools, but I'm not convinced they're the best option. And certainly not the default because I'm whining about how poor I am... when I'm not.

Ah, but that’s the elephant in the room.

It’s the equivalent of a second mortgage to debt finance a T20 school.

If you think it’s worth it, I support you, it’s your money. Same if you don’t want to do it. Your kid, your decision.

What we see from a lot of parents here is well actually, no, if I have to borrow it myself then these schools aren’t the magic bullet to success and aren’t worth spending their own money.

“But I don’t have it!” Yes you do, you can borrow all of it with no collateral. Then pay it over time. There are zero other times in life a bank will give you basically unlimited capital just based on a handshake and a smile.

If you can afford $35k a year for state school you can pay $80k a year if you space it out over ten years, look at that it’s $32k a year plus some interest. Same amount, roughly speaking.

Maybe if you have an only child. The more kids you have, the harder that scenario is. We are talking at current rates (which will rise each year) : $720k for 2 kids at a 4-year private university; 1,080,00 million for 3 kids and so on...

Yet there are literally hundreds of excellent schools you will be able to afford. Nobody is entitled to an elite education or any education for free. I agree---if you were not able to save $85+K/year for your kid to attend or cannot easily cash flow, then the school is NOT worth it.
Just like I don't pay $80K for a BMW if I truly cannot afford it---I buy the Honda for $40K and know that I got a great car, safe car, one that will take me places in life.
There are many things in life that I want that I cannot afford, so I don't get them. College is no different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/college-acceptance-rates-ivy-league-schools-wealth.html

Basically it seems athlete, monied donor, first gen (the new proxy for race), legacy are about it.

I hate the examples that so many books give for how the balance the athletic “allotment” - they may need a piccolo player in the band. I was in the band at an Ivy; it’s run by the students and there is zero interaction with administrators other than permission to play at games and rent buses. It is nothing like the bureaucracy advocating for athletics. I guess MAYBE at a Big10 school with world class marching band? But theater and music and debate teams at T25 schools aren’t coordinating with admissions about their future slots or participating population, that’s just a polite fiction, there just isn’t enough administrative support to even make those assessments let alone factor into admittance.

I think the article is actually under reporting the dead zone salary - $222k in manhattan?! I’m guessing probably $150k to $500k — they are looking for donors and two Fed employees making $180k aren’t going to be writing big checks.

Gee, many people would love to have the "dead zone" problem. There are actually first gens and/or low income families who are struggling to pay for their kids school lunch. Many families would love to make $225k or be in a double income $180k family with a lifetime fed jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we’ve been complaining about that here for years. That’s why our high stat, heavy EC, volunteer kids mostly end up taking a scholarship to Big State U. Our kids are too privileged for a hand up and not privileged enough for a handout. No one cares about them.

I feel like you may have missed the spirit of that word "volunteer" on account of maybe being kind of a selfish and terrible person?

I'm in the same donut hole for salary you are--only worse, actually, because I bet we have less cash. I value education enough to take out loans to send my kid to the best possible school they can attend. We applied to state schools, but I'm not convinced they're the best option. And certainly not the default because I'm whining about how poor I am... when I'm not.

Ah, but that’s the elephant in the room.

It is not only money it is ignoring a big chunk group of students because of parent income. I understand every thig else being equal giving a chance to other group. But the problem is preventing a lot of hard working kids from top colleges would not be good in the future.

It’s the equivalent of a second mortgage to debt finance a T20 school.

If you think it’s worth it, I support you, it’s your money. Same if you don’t want to do it. Your kid, your decision.

What we see from a lot of parents here is well actually, no, if I have to borrow it myself then these schools aren’t the magic bullet to success and aren’t worth spending their own money.

“But I don’t have it!” Yes you do, you can borrow all of it with no collateral. Then pay it over time. There are zero other times in life a bank will give you basically unlimited capital just based on a handshake and a smile.

If you can afford $35k a year for state school you can pay $80k a year if you space it out over ten years, look at that it’s $32k a year plus some interest. Same amount, roughly speaking.

Maybe if you have an only child. The more kids you have, the harder that scenario is. We are talking at current rates (which will rise each year) : $720k for 2 kids at a 4-year private university; 1,080,00 million for 3 kids and so on...

Yet there are literally hundreds of excellent schools you will be able to afford. Nobody is entitled to an elite education or any education for free. I agree---if you were not able to save $85+K/year for your kid to attend or cannot easily cash flow, then the school is NOT worth it.
Just like I don't pay $80K for a BMW if I truly cannot afford it---I buy the Honda for $40K and know that I got a great car, safe car, one that will take me places in life.
There are many things in life that I want that I cannot afford, so I don't get them. College is no different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Screwed because you're obsessed with colleges where it's statistically unlikely to be accepted?

Really, it's a self-imposed situation. If you just look beyond the few dozen schools that are like that and get excited about the hundreds (thousands?) of others, this process isn't nearly as stressful.

This x1000

My DD is going to a state school and got enough merit to cut the tuition in half and she couldn’t be more excited.

Which one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Screwed from getting into an Ivy in order to get a Federal job? Kids can go to GMU if they want to make $180K. I'm not sure of what we're being screwed out of.

Ofc you know. It's kids who work just as hard as kids with hooks. Some of that is simply due to family circumstances (kids can't change the fact they're not first gen). And yet, other kids get preference -in terms of admittance and maybe aid- because of those things, and get them at top schools.

You think GMU or Radford or Nova are so great? Why don't you send your kid there?

I don't understand why people direct their bitterness toward the first gen ed kids and not the loaded legacy types.

I'm the poster you are responding to and I was first gen, not that it got me anything. Grew up poorer than most people on here, I'd bet. Parents and grandparents were (immigrant, in grandparents case) factory and blue collar workers. Did well enough with no help from anyone, except loans and busting my a$$. And now my smart, hardworking kid who grinds it out is going to be disadvantaged, potentially, for me working up from poor to UMC.

Yeah, that's great. What a reward! Now IF kid gets in, I'll be full pay and work/pay it all over again.

Agree with this 100%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Screwed from getting into an Ivy in order to get a Federal job? Kids can go to GMU if they want to make $180K. I'm not sure of what we're being screwed out of.

Ofc you know. It's kids who work just as hard as kids with hooks. Some of that is simply due to family circumstances (kids can't change the fact they're not first gen). And yet, other kids get preference -in terms of admittance and maybe aid- because of those things, and get them at top schools.

You think GMU or Radford or Nova are so great? Why don't you send your kid there?

I don't understand why people direct their bitterness toward the first gen ed kids and not the loaded legacy types.

I'm the poster you are responding to and I was first gen, not that it got me anything. Grew up poorer than most people on here, I'd bet. Parents and grandparents were (immigrant, in grandparents case) factory and blue collar workers. Did well enough with no help from anyone, except loans and busting my a$$. And now my smart, hardworking kid who grinds it out is going to be disadvantaged, potentially, for me working up from poor to UMC.

Yeah, that's great. What a reward! Now IF kid gets in, I'll be full pay and work/pay it all over again.

Agree with this 100%

I'm in the same boat (so to speak).

Grew up in a poor immigrant family. Went to no name state u, busted my a$$, and now our kids are in the donut family. I told DC not to ED to any expensive privates even though DC has super high stats.

Even so, I do feel grateful that my kids got a better education than I did. They got a little bit of merit aid from the state flagship. They also busted their a$$ and went into college with 58 credits.

[Anonymous]

The whole system needs to be torn down at this point. Admission should be based on academic merit, period, and it should be free for any family making less than $150k / year. The flip side is we probably need to get rid of 2/3 of the schools and rebuild our trades. Federal student loans caused this problem, but too many now depend on them to get rid of them. This will never happen, of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The whole system needs to be torn down at this point. Admission should be based on academic merit, period, and it should be free for any family making less than $150k / year. The flip side is we probably need to get rid of 2/3 of the schools and rebuild our trades. Federal student loans caused this problem, but too many now depend on them to get rid of them. This will never happen, of course.

You are basically arguing for a European system of college. That's fine...but it already exists and in fact your kid can go to college for free tuition to a number of colleges in Germany, Netherlands, etc. (taught in English) right now. It also means a number of kids will be told that they can't attend college at all and must learn a trade. Maybe that is something worthwhile?

Also, you are somewhat replicating the systems in India, China, Korea where I gather there will be now be one test that all HS kids take in either Junior or Senior year of HS and that determines the rest of their life. In Korea, I believe it is an 8 hour exam...and apparently, some parents are suing because one of the proctors ended the test...one minute early. Yes, one minute early. Apparently, the plaintiffs will win their lawsuit based on similar lawsuits succeeding in the past.

These exams are rife with cheating (especially in India and China...there are pictures of parents on ladders trying to sneak answers to their kids through the windows), bribes (many willing proctors) and a horrifically stressful HS experience where your kid attends a normal 8 hour school day followed by 8 hours of cram school as a 9th grader to prepare for that one test in 11th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Screwed from getting into an Ivy in order to get a Federal job? Kids can go to GMU if they want to make $180K. I'm not sure of what we're being screwed out of.

Ofc you know. It's kids who work just as hard as kids with hooks. Some of that is simply due to family circumstances (kids can't change the fact they're not first gen). And yet, other kids get preference -in terms of admittance and maybe aid- because of those things, and get them at top schools.

You think GMU or Radford or Nova are so great? Why don't you send your kid there?

I don't understand why people direct their bitterness toward the first gen ed kids and not the loaded legacy types.

I'm the poster you are responding to and I was first gen, not that it got me anything. Grew up poorer than most people on here, I'd bet. Parents and grandparents were (immigrant, in grandparents case) factory and blue collar workers. Did well enough with no help from anyone, except loans and busting my a$$. And now my smart, hardworking kid who grinds it out is going to be disadvantaged, potentially, for me working up from poor to UMC.

Yeah, that's great. What a reward! Now IF kid gets in, I'll be full pay and work/pay it all over again.

Agree with this 100%

Why do people think they are entitled to “poor emeritus” status where their family forever gets treated like a new immigrant’s or blue collar family when it doesn’t apply at all to their own kids?

They need psychological help to make them understand they are in fact now a rich person and will be treated according THEIR ACTUAL INCOME AND THE FACT THEIR KIDS ARE NOT FIRST GEN and not their sob story about how they worked their way up from nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/college-acceptance-rates-ivy-league-schools-wealth.html

Basically it seems athlete, monied donor, first gen (the new proxy for race), legacy are about it.

I hate the examples that so many books give for how the balance the athletic “allotment” - they may need a piccolo player in the band. I was in the band at an Ivy; it’s run by the students and there is zero interaction with administrators other than permission to play at games and rent buses. It is nothing like the bureaucracy advocating for athletics. I guess MAYBE at a Big10 school with world class marching band? But theater and music and debate teams at T25 schools aren’t coordinating with admissions about their future slots or participating population, that’s just a polite fiction, there just isn’t enough administrative support to even make those assessments let alone factor into admittance.

I think the article is actually under reporting the dead zone salary - $222k in manhattan?! I’m guessing probably $150k to $500k — they are looking for donors and two Fed employees making $180k aren’t going to be writing big checks.

Gee, many people would love to have the "dead zone" problem. There are actually first gens and/or low income families who are struggling to pay for their kids school lunch. Many families would love to make $225k or be in a double income $180k family with a lifetime fed jobs.

Admissions and Financial Aid officers who make $45,000 a year love hearing from people explains they are getting royally screwed because they “just” make a quarter million dollars a year but they live in an ultra expensive area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Screwed from getting into an Ivy in order to get a Federal job? Kids can go to GMU if they want to make $180K. I'm not sure of what we're being screwed out of.

Ofc you know. It's kids who work just as hard as kids with hooks. Some of that is simply due to family circumstances (kids can't change the fact they're not first gen). And yet, other kids get preference -in terms of admittance and maybe aid- because of those things, and get them at top schools.

You think GMU or Radford or Nova are so great? Why don't you send your kid there?

I don't understand why people direct their bitterness toward the first gen ed kids and not the loaded legacy types.

I'm the poster you are responding to and I was first gen, not that it got me anything. Grew up poorer than most people on here, I'd bet. Parents and grandparents were (immigrant, in grandparents case) factory and blue collar workers. Did well enough with no help from anyone, except loans and busting my a$$. And now my smart, hardworking kid who grinds it out is going to be disadvantaged, potentially, for me working up from poor to UMC.

Yeah, that's great. What a reward! Now IF kid gets in, I'll be full pay and work/pay it all over again.

Agree with this 100%

Why do people think they are entitled to “poor emeritus” status where their family forever gets treated like a new immigrant’s or blue collar family when it doesn’t apply at all to their own kids?

They need psychological help to make them understand they are in fact now a rich person and will be treated according THEIR ACTUAL INCOME AND THE FACT THEIR KIDS ARE NOT FIRST GEN and not their sob story about how they worked their way up from nothing.

You're a real dick. Not to mention some special type of smug a$$hole to come on here, discount people's upbringing and be the arbitrator of what you THINK they should be entitled to and what they should accept.