Do great students sometimes get shut out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they apply to say ten, 3 reach, 3 safeties, one rolling, 3 middle/oos. They should land a place.

I've never heard anyone being rejected 100%, either they've already decided to take a gap year, community and transfer route or working.

College is a choice.

This^. Our school district only allows to apply to twelve schools, three high reach, three safeties, three reaches, three matches.

By allow, i meant support. Obviously you can knock yourself out with applications but you only get LORS for 12.

[Anonymous]

Yes. My DS had perfect test scores, 11 APs all 5s, work experience, etc.... went to his school safety. It was devastating at the time but he is happy and now just snarky about the whole thing. It really is a lottery. The success is earning the ticket. Keep that view and anywhere you end up will be ok. Transferring is an option if necessary, but it a lot to do and very disruptive if you are happy where you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS has an EA acceptance to his top choice in hand, so this is pretty much anxiety and idle curiosity speaking. Since admissions can be holistic and somewhat capricious, what happens when a solid student (say, 4+ GPA and 1400+ SAT with great EC's) is shut out from everywhere they applied, even targets and safeties? I'm guessing this happens with a lot of safeties that have more of an 80% admit rate than higher. Do you know anyone this has happened to?

If the student applies to several TRUE safeties (versus what they think should be safeties), then no, they won't get shut out.

I keep hearing this on this board, but how does one know what a TRUE safety is? My DS had a 3.85 gpa and 1480 SAT and was shut out of JMU.

That is indeed strange -- was your DS actually rejected by JMU? Even so, it goes to show that you need to apply to several true safeties. Even if one or two reject due to yield protection, etc., you still won't get shut out.

He applied EA, was deferred, then waitlisted. It was his #1 choice. He wanted a large school that had a good program in his major. His counselor fully believed he would have no problem getting into JMU. He had no illusions of getting into more difficult schools. He ultimately accepted admission at an OOS school that gave him good merit.

I really don't understand this. Know several kids with scores in the 1100s and 1200s that were accepted at JMU. They applied OOS, so perhaps JMU gives a bump to OOS kids / figure the kid really wants to attend if applying OOS?

They applied test optional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS has an EA acceptance to his top choice in hand, so this is pretty much anxiety and idle curiosity speaking. Since admissions can be holistic and somewhat capricious, what happens when a solid student (say, 4+ GPA and 1400+ SAT with great EC's) is shut out from everywhere they applied, even targets and safeties? I'm guessing this happens with a lot of safeties that have more of an 80% admit rate than higher. Do you know anyone this has happened to?

If the student applies to several TRUE safeties (versus what they think should be safeties), then no, they won't get shut out.

I keep hearing this on this board, but how does one know what a TRUE safety is? My DS had a 3.85 gpa and 1480 SAT and was shut out of JMU.

That is indeed strange -- was your DS actually rejected by JMU? Even so, it goes to show that you need to apply to several true safeties. Even if one or two reject due to yield protection, etc., you still won't get shut out.

He applied EA, was deferred, then waitlisted. It was his #1 choice. He wanted a large school that had a good program in his major. His counselor fully believed he would have no problem getting into JMU. He had no illusions of getting into more difficult schools. He ultimately accepted admission at an OOS school that gave him good merit.

I really don't understand this. Know several kids with scores in the 1100s and 1200s that were accepted at JMU. They applied OOS, so perhaps JMU gives a bump to OOS kids / figure the kid really wants to attend if applying OOS?

They applied test optional.

The JMU test score 25-75% range is listed as 1160-1310. Why do you think they applied test optional?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they apply to say ten, 3 reach, 3 safeties, one rolling, 3 middle/oos. They should land a place.

I've never heard anyone being rejected 100%, either they've already decided to take a gap year, community and transfer route or working.

College is a choice.

This^. Our school district only allows to apply to twelve schools, three high reach, three safeties, three reaches, three matches.

By allow, i meant support. Obviously you can knock yourself out with applications but you only get LORS for 12.

Don’t the LORs from teachers and the counselor get uploaded one time in the Common App, and then the applicant can apply to whatever schools they want (presuming the FERPA was submitted to the LOR writers)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t get shut out of targets and safeties.

My kid had those scores and didn’t apply to any competitive schools. She aimed for merit , got lots, and took a free ride to a big state U.

Kids who are great students and don’t have a hook are going to state Us. Prestigious universities have decided our kids lives are good enough and they don’t need the benefit of a door-knocker college and there’s no feel-good reward for them.

Again, my DS was just accepted to a school with a 15% acceptance rate and deferred from one with a 71% acceptance rate (a state u). We'd considered the latter a target, and yet...

This! I think most families actually make a decent effort to find schools that truly would be a safety/likely for their child (based on common data set and other research). It's when you hear about results like PP (which is probably more common this year) that make this whole process confusing.

I'm OP (finally coming back to this thread, sorry!) and his situation is why I posted. I've hated this entire process, never want to do it again, and hope it's better next time around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. My DS had perfect test scores, 11 APs all 5s, work experience, etc.... went to his school safety. It was devastating at the time but he is happy and now just snarky about the whole thing. It really is a lottery. The success is earning the ticket. Keep that view and anywhere you end up will be ok. Transferring is an option if necessary, but it a lot to do and very disruptive if you are happy where you are.

This happened to one of DD's friends in grade ahead - HS '21. DD and friends now refer to it as "getting [friend's name]-ed!" Made many of DD's friends probably tweak their EDs, probably even DD. Nearly happened to two of her friends who did not tweak - one a double URM legacy @ an HYPSM (ended up with 2 RD offers from T10s in RD so worked out - kid probably in top 5 of class [the two white male legacies admitted - one also top five, one less rigor but novel EC]) and her BFF got into a T25 EA but wiped out everywhere else - also one of top females in class. In both instances, school college counselors were in shock.

Interesting that the kid, who pretty much got shut out across the board in '21, then getting off WL @ a Big 10 (not Michigan), now has 2 siblings @ Ivies with the fourth admitted for next fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. My DS had perfect test scores, 11 APs all 5s, work experience, etc.... went to his school safety. It was devastating at the time but he is happy and now just snarky about the whole thing. It really is a lottery. The success is earning the ticket. Keep that view and anywhere you end up will be ok. Transferring is an option if necessary, but it a lot to do and very disruptive if you are happy where you are.

This happened to one of DD's friends in grade ahead - HS '21. DD and friends now refer to it as "getting [friend's name]-ed!" Made many of DD's friends probably tweak their EDs, probably even DD. Nearly happened to two of her friends who did not tweak - one a double URM legacy @ an HYPSM (ended up with 2 RD offers from T10s in RD so worked out - kid probably in top 5 of class [the two white male legacies admitted - one also top five, one less rigor but novel EC]) and her BFF got into a T25 EA but wiped out everywhere else - also one of top females in class. In both instances, school college counselors were in shock.

Interesting that the kid, who pretty much got shut out across the board in '21, then getting off WL @ a Big 10 (not Michigan), now has 2 siblings @ Ivies with the fourth admitted for next fall.

Michigan isn't exactly something to aspire to over other Big 10 schools. This entire post reeks of...something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. My DS had perfect test scores, 11 APs all 5s, work experience, etc.... went to his school safety. It was devastating at the time but he is happy and now just snarky about the whole thing. It really is a lottery. The success is earning the ticket. Keep that view and anywhere you end up will be ok. Transferring is an option if necessary, but it a lot to do and very disruptive if you are happy where you are.

This happened to one of DD's friends in grade ahead - HS '21. DD and friends now refer to it as "getting [friend's name]-ed!" Made many of DD's friends probably tweak their EDs, probably even DD. Nearly happened to two of her friends who did not tweak - one a double URM legacy @ an HYPSM (ended up with 2 RD offers from T10s in RD so worked out - kid probably in top 5 of class [the two white male legacies admitted - one also top five, one less rigor but novel EC]) and her BFF got into a T25 EA but wiped out everywhere else - also one of top females in class. In both instances, school college counselors were in shock.

Interesting that the kid, who pretty much got shut out across the board in '21, then getting off WL @ a Big 10 (not Michigan), now has 2 siblings @ Ivies with the fourth admitted for next fall.

Michigan isn't exactly something to aspire to over other Big 10 schools. This entire post reeks of...something.

What does it reek of?

I included Michigan here as there are a lot of fans for Michigan on this board, in other college discussion forum, and among some UMC and wealthy parents. I inhabit those circles on the East Coast and hear it a lot. In some instances, it is due to Michigan not imposing admit quotas on Jewish applicants so there is intergenerational love for the school.

And many of the various grad and professional schools are highly ranked. Granted, that is not undergrad, but some folks don't split hairs over that.

So that's why I included Michigan when describing one particular high stats student's journey to college. Again, would love to know what reeks here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. My DS had perfect test scores, 11 APs all 5s, work experience, etc.... went to his school safety. It was devastating at the time but he is happy and now just snarky about the whole thing. It really is a lottery. The success is earning the ticket. Keep that view and anywhere you end up will be ok. Transferring is an option if necessary, but it a lot to do and very disruptive if you are happy where you are.

This happened to one of DD's friends in grade ahead - HS '21. DD and friends now refer to it as "getting [friend's name]-ed!" Made many of DD's friends probably tweak their EDs, probably even DD. Nearly happened to two of her friends who did not tweak - one a double URM legacy @ an HYPSM (ended up with 2 RD offers from T10s in RD so worked out - kid probably in top 5 of class [the two white male legacies admitted - one also top five, one less rigor but novel EC]) and her BFF got into a T25 EA but wiped out everywhere else - also one of top females in class. In both instances, school college counselors were in shock.

Interesting that the kid, who pretty much got shut out across the board in '21, then getting off WL @ a Big 10 (not Michigan), now has 2 siblings @ Ivies with the fourth admitted for next fall.

Not getting in ED/SCEA is not getting shut out. Getting shut out is not getting in RD too--or only one safety out of many applications. Your DD's friend was shut out---the others were not. They had what happens to the majority of candidates--have to wait until RD round.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. My DS had perfect test scores, 11 APs all 5s, work experience, etc.... went to his school safety. It was devastating at the time but he is happy and now just snarky about the whole thing. It really is a lottery. The success is earning the ticket. Keep that view and anywhere you end up will be ok. Transferring is an option if necessary, but it a lot to do and very disruptive if you are happy where you are.

This happened to one of DD's friends in grade ahead - HS '21. DD and friends now refer to it as "getting [friend's name]-ed!" Made many of DD's friends probably tweak their EDs, probably even DD. Nearly happened to two of her friends who did not tweak - one a double URM legacy @ an HYPSM (ended up with 2 RD offers from T10s in RD so worked out - kid probably in top 5 of class [the two white male legacies admitted - one also top five, one less rigor but novel EC]) and her BFF got into a T25 EA but wiped out everywhere else - also one of top females in class. In both instances, school college counselors were in shock.

Interesting that the kid, who pretty much got shut out across the board in '21, then getting off WL @ a Big 10 (not Michigan), now has 2 siblings @ Ivies with the fourth admitted for next fall.

Michigan isn't exactly something to aspire to over other Big 10 schools. This entire post reeks of...something.

What does it reek of?

I included Michigan here as there are a lot of fans for Michigan on this board, in other college discussion forum, and among some UMC and wealthy parents. I inhabit those circles on the East Coast and hear it a lot. In some instances, it is due to Michigan not imposing admit quotas on Jewish applicants so there is intergenerational love for the school.

And many of the various grad and professional schools are highly ranked. Granted, that is not undergrad, but some folks don't split hairs over that.

So that's why I included Michigan when describing one particular high stats student's journey to college. Again, would love to know what reeks here?

Arrogance and the assumption that a student has failed in life if they "only" receive an acceptance to Illinois or Purdue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t get shut out of targets and safeties.

My kid had those scores and didn’t apply to any competitive schools. She aimed for merit , got lots, and took a free ride to a big state U.

Kids who are great students and don’t have a hook are going to state Us. Prestigious universities have decided our kids lives are good enough and they don’t need the benefit of a door-knocker college and there’s no feel-good reward for them.

Again, my DS was just accepted to a school with a 15% acceptance rate and deferred from one with a 71% acceptance rate (a state u). We'd considered the latter a target, and yet...

This! I think most families actually make a decent effort to find schools that truly would be a safety/likely for their child (based on common data set and other research). It's when you hear about results like PP (which is probably more common this year) that make this whole process confusing.

I'm OP (finally coming back to this thread, sorry!) and his situation is why I posted. I've hated this entire process, never want to do it again, and hope it's better next time around.

It's the stupid 'yield protection' thing which is so presumptuous on colleges' behalf. Some kids want to go to those schools even with high stats. Then, they get shut out while kids with much, MUCH lower stats get accepted. It is the most unpredictable it's ever been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t get shut out of targets and safeties.

My kid had those scores and didn’t apply to any competitive schools. She aimed for merit , got lots, and took a free ride to a big state U.

Kids who are great students and don’t have a hook are going to state Us. Prestigious universities have decided our kids lives are good enough and they don’t need the benefit of a door-knocker college and there’s no feel-good reward for them.

Again, my DS was just accepted to a school with a 15% acceptance rate and deferred from one with a 71% acceptance rate (a state u). We'd considered the latter a target, and yet...

This! I think most families actually make a decent effort to find schools that truly would be a safety/likely for their child (based on common data set and other research). It's when you hear about results like PP (which is probably more common this year) that make this whole process confusing.

I'm OP (finally coming back to this thread, sorry!) and his situation is why I posted. I've hated this entire process, never want to do it again, and hope it's better next time around.

It's the stupid 'yield protection' thing which is so presumptuous on colleges' behalf. Some kids want to go to those schools even with high stats. Then, they get shut out while kids with much, MUCH lower stats get accepted. It is the most unpredictable it's ever been.

I do not believe the school he was deferred at (Auburn) yield protects, which makes it even more capricious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“But I do think there are some very strong applicants who applied to an appropriate range of reach/target/likely schools who never dreamed they would only get into likelies and are (understandably, in my opionion) so disappointed in their choices that it feels like a shutout.”

This may be my senior this year. In at several safeties but not excited about them. Worried that the targets will yield protect. And of course the reaches are a 5% possibility, 95% chance of rejection. We feel like we should come up with more targets but it’s hard to find ones that check all the boxes in terms of size, location, offerings, etc.

This is the biggest problem. You need to spend just as much time finding safeties you are reasonably excited about, as your targets and reaches.

Feels like people just pick random, high acceptance in-state schools for their safeties, even though there is no real interest in attending.

This 1000%! It is not a "safety" if your kid is not excited about attending. The entire purpose of picking good safeties is so you can actually pick places that are good fits for your kid and a place they want to be.

And stop with the "but there are no safeties for my high stats kid". There are....plenty of them. Your high stats kid can find plenty of like minded students at many schools. Sure one ranked 50-75 might not be 99% filled with kids with 1550+/3.99UW/15APs/etc, but there will be a large group of extremely smart, highly motivated, like minded students.
Now is the time to select your safeties, otherwise you may not like what is remaining come may of senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. My DS had perfect test scores, 11 APs all 5s, work experience, etc.... went to his school safety. It was devastating at the time but he is happy and now just snarky about the whole thing. It really is a lottery. The success is earning the ticket. Keep that view and anywhere you end up will be ok. Transferring is an option if necessary, but it a lot to do and very disruptive if you are happy where you are.

This happened to me . NOBODY could understand it. Counselor even intervened--and called around to talk to Admissions--there was no bad reference (all glowing), no bad response, straight As/high scores and tons of ECs--including Varsity Freshmen year bringing home a State championship, academic awards, class officer, etc.- nothing that would have prevented admission. In-state I was WL at UVA and WM. Saw kids at my school with no ECs and MUCH lower gpas, etc. get in. There was no explanation--just the way it was. That same year a Supreme Justice's kid also didn't get into same schools---so who knows what box they were filling my year? It's the same year that girl at U. Mich filed the reverse discrimination act (first well-known one). It was a crazy year for admissions.

I was #3 in a class of 540 in Ffx Co (pre-grade inflation )

So like, your son, it was devastating at the time. I was a very high achiever and it felt like 'wtf was all of that for'. I went and partied hard my first semester of college...lol-- because I figured F-it. Very disillusioned. Ended up successful with some ivy grads working under me .

C'est la Vie.