Tell me about the CS program at William and Mary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not direct admit (no majors at W&M) are but there are no caps, and no special requirements that need to be met to declare, other than number of credits.


The CS program is currently under a massive period of growth, with W&M currently planning a new school of computer and data science that will allow those departments to become more competitive. At the same time, W&M CS classes are much smaller than the average public (think 40-50 kids max versus hundreds at UMD, Tech, GMU). But currently because of that, they are not able to offer concentrations, although that is coming very soon from what I've heard.

Wow--Five new CS faculty started in 2023-2024! That's a huge increase for a school of WM size and is great for their program:
https://www.wm.edu/as/computerscience/about-contactus/fast-facts-2022-2023/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:yes i don’t see why people say W&M is so competitive. I just checked our school. last year the acceptance rate was 44.4, the ED acceptance rate was 100% with an average 4.35 and 1310. No way in hellllll are you getting in VT engineering with those stats unless you have something really special.

My kid is also a stem kid, and W&M is not on his radar. it’s VT, GT, UMD, UTAustin, TAM, UF, and Auburn.

As someone in industry, I would NEVER ADVISE any kid to pursue any sort of engineering program (and CS sits in engineering schools) to go to a program that isn’t ABET accredited. My company won’t even hire an intern from a college that isn’t ABET accredited so we don’t recruit or consider W&M for internships.

I’m sure W&M is a great school just not for CS.

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding your comments but

NOT ABET accredited undergraduate CS programs:
Cal
Carnegie Mellon
UMD
Purdue
Stanford
Washington

ACCREDITED undergraduate CS programs include:
Coastal Carolina
UDC
Hood
Liberty
Radford
York (PA)

https://amspub.abet.org/aps/category-search?disciplines=19°reeLevels=B

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone in industry, I would NEVER ADVISE any kid to pursue any sort of engineering program (and CS sits in engineering schools) to go to a program that isn’t ABET accredited. My company won’t even hire an intern from a college that isn’t ABET accredited so we don’t recruit or consider W&M for internships.

I’m sure W&M is a great school just not for CS.

I don't think this is true. I work for Amazon Web Service (AWS) and we don't care where you get your degree from. If you can pass the on-site interview, with actual real world scenarios, we will hire you, even if you graduate from WM.

+1. Top tier schools don't care about the ABET certification. Michigan CS gave up their ABET certification for whatever reason and their kids are not affected by that. DS' friends are being placed at top companies for internships and jobs.. I'm talking Google/Citadel level.

seriously? That would give me pause.

Why? Stanford and Berkeley don't care for ABET accreditation either. Lower schools do care though.. It's like the PMP. We look for them in beginner and junior PMs. No one's going to ask the VP of Program Delivery if they have a PMP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If you need to go instate, but can't make UVA or VT, then do it.

It's harder to get into W&M then VT.

not for CS.

True. My friend's kid got into WM for CS, but was waitlisted at VT and rejected at UVA.

4.5gpa female, varsity bball, went to a "diverse" NOVA public school.

Damn my daughter doesn't stand a chance at VT for CS. 4.3 GPA, no scores, Varsity sports, and diverse NOVA public.

she stands a small chance, but if she hasn’t applied EA then it’s even smaller. No scores is the real killer with that GPA. we were told that Eng likes to see at least a 750 for math out of NoVA kids.

What about ACT math for NoVA kids

You’d want a 35 to correspond to the 750. My kid went to TJ, and at the info session, they said they wanted to see an A in BC (even if that’s midterm senior year). That’s a heavy lift and a TJ and I know a kid who got into VT with a B in BC from TJ. But it was a female applicant with a lot going for her in things like applied research.

My kid just got into W&M with a B in BC Calc. While there are general expectations, don't make any assumptions either way about whether something on the transcript or test score is a deal killer.

The above was for VT Engineering CS, not WM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone in industry, I would NEVER ADVISE any kid to pursue any sort of engineering program (and CS sits in engineering schools) to go to a program that isn’t ABET accredited. My company won’t even hire an intern from a college that isn’t ABET accredited so we don’t recruit or consider W&M for internships.

I’m sure W&M is a great school just not for CS.

I don't think this is true. I work for Amazon Web Service (AWS) and we don't care where you get your degree from. If you can pass the on-site interview, with actual real world scenarios, we will hire you, even if you graduate from WM.

I'm talking first job out of college and internships. Once you have experience my compnay does not even care IF you have a degree. Degrees are not required for any job at my tech company. However as far as recruiting for internships and on camups talent recruiting W&M does not even pass the first test which is ABET accreditation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone in industry, I would NEVER ADVISE any kid to pursue any sort of engineering program (and CS sits in engineering schools) to go to a program that isn’t ABET accredited. My company won’t even hire an intern from a college that isn’t ABET accredited so we don’t recruit or consider W&M for internships.

I’m sure W&M is a great school just not for CS.

I don't think this is true. I work for Amazon Web Service (AWS) and we don't care where you get your degree from. If you can pass the on-site interview, with actual real world scenarios, we will hire you, even if you graduate from WM.

I'm talking first job out of college and internships. Once you have experience my compnay does not even care IF you have a degree. Degrees are not required for any job at my tech company. However as far as recruiting for internships and on camups talent recruiting W&M does not even pass the first test which is ABET accreditation.

So no students from Caltech, Stanford, Michigan, CMU for you? Okay then. WM follows ACM guidelines--which makes a lot more sense for a non-engineering school CS degree. I think you're showing a dated perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If you need to go instate, but can't make UVA or VT, then do it.

It's harder to get into W&M then VT.

not for CS.

True. My friend's kid got into WM for CS, but was waitlisted at VT and rejected at UVA.

4.5gpa female, varsity bball, went to a "diverse" NOVA public school.

Damn my daughter doesn't stand a chance at VT for CS. 4.3 GPA, no scores, Varsity sports, and diverse NOVA public.

she stands a small chance, but if she hasn’t applied EA then it’s even smaller. No scores is the real killer with that GPA. we were told that Eng likes to see at least a 750 for math out of NoVA kids.

What about ACT math for NoVA kids

You’d want a 35 to correspond to the 750. My kid went to TJ, and at the info session, they said they wanted to see an A in BC (even if that’s midterm senior year). That’s a heavy lift and a TJ and I know a kid who got into VT with a B in BC from TJ. But it was a female applicant with a lot going for her in things like applied research.

Not so sure if that is true. My son got into VT MechEng (very completive there) and he had a B+ in AP Calc, 5 on the Exam and then his Junior Year took MultiVariable Calc DE and got an A. He basically ran out of math classes at that point (except the softball of Stats) and had no issues getting in. His GPA was also 4.11 (end of junior year, but 4.3 upon graduation). Not terribly impressive, but I think his math rigor is what got him in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone in industry, I would NEVER ADVISE any kid to pursue any sort of engineering program (and CS sits in engineering schools) to go to a program that isn’t ABET accredited. My company won’t even hire an intern from a college that isn’t ABET accredited so we don’t recruit or consider W&M for internships.

I’m sure W&M is a great school just not for CS.

I don't think this is true. I work for Amazon Web Service (AWS) and we don't care where you get your degree from. If you can pass the on-site interview, with actual real world scenarios, we will hire you, even if you graduate from WM.

I'm talking first job out of college and internships. Once you have experience my compnay does not even care IF you have a degree. Degrees are not required for any job at my tech company. However as far as recruiting for internships and on camups talent recruiting W&M does not even pass the first test which is ABET accreditation.

Well, WM grads get many competing offers and WM is the #1 public school for internships: https://news.wm.edu/2023/04/27/wm-tops-national-ranking-for-internships-3-years-in-a-row/
So I'm guessing they are doing okay without the ABET accreditation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If you need to go instate, but can't make UVA or VT, then do it.

It's harder to get into W&M then VT.

not for CS.

True. My friend's kid got into WM for CS, but was waitlisted at VT and rejected at UVA.

4.5gpa female, varsity bball, went to a "diverse" NOVA public school.

Damn my daughter doesn't stand a chance at VT for CS. 4.3 GPA, no scores, Varsity sports, and diverse NOVA public.

she stands a small chance, but if she hasn’t applied EA then it’s even smaller. No scores is the real killer with that GPA. we were told that Eng likes to see at least a 750 for math out of NoVA kids.

What about ACT math for NoVA kids

You’d want a 35 to correspond to the 750. My kid went to TJ, and at the info session, they said they wanted to see an A in BC (even if that’s midterm senior year). That’s a heavy lift and a TJ and I know a kid who got into VT with a B in BC from TJ. But it was a female applicant with a lot going for her in things like applied research.

Not so sure if that is true. My son got into VT MechEng (very completive there) and he had a B+ in AP Calc, 5 on the Exam and then his Junior Year took MultiVariable Calc DE and got an A. He basically ran out of math classes at that point (except the softball of Stats) and had no issues getting in. His GPA was also 4.11 (end of junior year, but 4.3 upon graduation). Not terribly impressive, but I think his math rigor is what got him in.

This is what VT said they wanted at the info session. However, I also noted that I know a TJ grad with a B in BC who was accepted to VT Engineering (but was a female, if that still matters). So clearly that’s a goal/ aspirational and not a hard line. And I’m sure a B+ is better in BC than a B+ in AB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If you need to go instate, but can't make UVA or VT, then do it.

It's harder to get into W&M then VT.

not for CS.

True. My friend's kid got into WM for CS, but was waitlisted at VT and rejected at UVA.

4.5gpa female, varsity bball, went to a "diverse" NOVA public school.

Damn my daughter doesn't stand a chance at VT for CS. 4.3 GPA, no scores, Varsity sports, and diverse NOVA public.

she stands a small chance, but if she hasn’t applied EA then it’s even smaller. No scores is the real killer with that GPA. we were told that Eng likes to see at least a 750 for math out of NoVA kids.

What about ACT math for NoVA kids

You’d want a 35 to correspond to the 750. My kid went to TJ, and at the info session, they said they wanted to see an A in BC (even if that’s midterm senior year). That’s a heavy lift and a TJ and I know a kid who got into VT with a B in BC from TJ. But it was a female applicant with a lot going for her in things like applied research.

Not so sure if that is true. My son got into VT MechEng (very completive there) and he had a B+ in AP Calc, 5 on the Exam and then his Junior Year took MultiVariable Calc DE and got an A. He basically ran out of math classes at that point (except the softball of Stats) and had no issues getting in. His GPA was also 4.11 (end of junior year, but 4.3 upon graduation). Not terribly impressive, but I think his math rigor is what got him in.

This is what VT said they wanted at the info session. However, I also noted that I know a TJ grad with a B in BC who was accepted to VT Engineering (but was a female, if that still matters). So clearly that’s a goal/ aspirational and not a hard line. And I’m sure a B+ is better in BC than a B+ in AB.

Yep--they say they want that, but then you look at the data from your school, the experiences of your friends and it's all over the map.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP - I think it is honestly a very good program because it is not part of an engineering school and so students also have to take part in the liberal arts curriculum. I also believe it is now ranked higher than Mason's CS program

It is not higher than Mason CS.

On USNWR it is. And they are investing a lot into it.

Maybe but kind of splitting hairs here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone in industry, I would NEVER ADVISE any kid to pursue any sort of engineering program (and CS sits in engineering schools) to go to a program that isn’t ABET accredited. My company won’t even hire an intern from a college that isn’t ABET accredited so we don’t recruit or consider W&M for internships.

I’m sure W&M is a great school just not for CS.

I don't think this is true. I work for Amazon Web Service (AWS) and we don't care where you get your degree from. If you can pass the on-site interview, with actual real world scenarios, we will hire you, even if you graduate from WM.

+1. Top tier schools don't care about the ABET certification. Michigan CS gave up their ABET certification for whatever reason and their kids are not affected by that. DS' friends are being placed at top companies for internships and jobs.. I'm talking Google/Citadel level.

seriously? That would give me pause.

Why? Stanford and Berkeley don't care for ABET accreditation either. Lower schools do care though.. It's like the PMP. We look for them in beginner and junior PMs. No one's going to ask the VP of Program Delivery if they have a PMP.

As far as PMP certification is concerned, when I look at linkedin jobs, they all want PMP certification, irrespective of # of years experience.

But, I get your point about ABET certification. From what I've read, because CS is "newish" field, ABET certifications aren't as important.

But, UMich CIS is ABET certified.
https://umdearborn.edu/cecs/departments/computer-and-information-science/undergraduate-programs/bs-computer-and-information-science
-pp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone in industry, I would NEVER ADVISE any kid to pursue any sort of engineering program (and CS sits in engineering schools) to go to a program that isn’t ABET accredited. My company won’t even hire an intern from a college that isn’t ABET accredited so we don’t recruit or consider W&M for internships.

I’m sure W&M is a great school just not for CS.

I don't think this is true. I work for Amazon Web Service (AWS) and we don't care where you get your degree from. If you can pass the on-site interview, with actual real world scenarios, we will hire you, even if you graduate from WM.

+1. Top tier schools don't care about the ABET certification. Michigan CS gave up their ABET certification for whatever reason and their kids are not affected by that. DS' friends are being placed at top companies for internships and jobs.. I'm talking Google/Citadel level.

seriously? That would give me pause.

Why? Stanford and Berkeley don't care for ABET accreditation either. Lower schools do care though.. It's like the PMP. We look for them in beginner and junior PMs. No one's going to ask the VP of Program Delivery if they have a PMP.

As far as PMP certification is concerned, when I look at linkedin jobs, they all want PMP certification, irrespective of # of years experience.

But, I get your point about ABET certification. From what I've read, because CS is "newish" field, ABET certifications aren't as important.

But, UMich CIS is ABET certified.
https://umdearborn.edu/cecs/departments/computer-and-information-science/undergraduate-programs/bs-computer-and-information-science
-pp

That is for UM Dearborn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP - I think it is honestly a very good program because it is not part of an engineering school and so students also have to take part in the liberal arts curriculum. I also believe it is now ranked higher than Mason's CS program

It is not higher than Mason CS.

On USNWR it is. And they are investing a lot into it.

Maybe but kind of splitting hairs here.

The point is that W&M has made investments that have allowed them to overtake a much larger school known for CS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP - I think it is honestly a very good program because it is not part of an engineering school and so students also have to take part in the liberal arts curriculum. I also believe it is now ranked higher than Mason's CS program

It is not higher than Mason CS.

On USNWR it is. And they are investing a lot into it.

Maybe but kind of splitting hairs here.

The point is that W&M has made investments that have allowed them to overtake a much larger school known for CS

And they were ranked higher before those investments have actually been put into place--they got that ranking with under 100 CS grads a year. It will be exciting what they do with more money behind it. I think this is such a smart move on their part because so many people don't realize how good of a school it is in terms of career outcomes in addition to rigorous academics. I also think it will also help with any drifting they have towards a female-heavy gender imbalance without having to lower admissions standards for males.
Now to be fair, the student body at WM are top-notch, high stats students--we'd expect grads to do well in any program.

And I'm also a big fan of GMU though--think it serves the widest range of VA students the best.