Why do some high schools allow open lunch and others do not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open campus lunch has worked for decades in many Montgomery County, Arlington, and DC public schools. It started in the late 60s and early 70s as students gained more freedom from then overbearing school administrations. MCPS, APS, and DCPS kept the open campus lunch policies in place because they worked so well over the years. Local businesses also benefited from the lunchtime rush. Student clubs, extracurriculars, and other activities are scheduled in coordination with the lunch periods. Also, notably, the public high schools with open lunches are within walking distance of homes, fast food joints, and businesses. The campuses also tend to be urban: B-CC, Walter Johnson, the former Blair, Jackson-Reed (Wilson), H-B Woodlawn, W-L, Yorktown, etc. Seniors in APS have open campus driving privileges.

Seneca Valley, which is not urban, used to have official open lunch, until a 15-year-old student was hit and killed while walking to school.

I don't know if Northwest ever had official open lunch, but that non-urban high school is also within walking distance of fast food.

This is tragic but mcps only provides bus service for two miles away. Our kids, if they walk have to cross major roads so this is a tragedy bound to happen without buses or guards. No family should experience that but it’s a separate issue from open lunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Einstein High School has a closed campus rule but the principal, Mark Brown, has stated that he will not enforce the rule.
As someone who lives near the school, I can tell you our neighborhood has been negatively affected.
Besides picking up trash every school day, I have photos of fights, drug use, drug deals and one student displaying a knife! I have passed these photos on to the principal and the BOE. Neither has done anything.
There are also those students roaming around after lunchtime and throughout the day. Einstein is a magnet school and very few, if any, of these kids live in the neighborhood.

I don't understand why MCPS gives principals this kind of latitude.

The truth is, Open Lunch has NEVER worked. Yes, there are some kids who do what they're supposed to do but the reality is, there will always be that minority of kids who abuse the privilege and ruin it for everybody. It was that way in '90s and it remains that way now.

So closed lunch IS the best way forward. But MCPS should look to partner with food vendors to have them do pop-ups to let kids buy the food INSIDE the school that they would buy outside. We have to stop pouring the money we pour into cafeteria food that the kids hate because it's tasteless, spoiled, or undesirable for whatever reasons. It's time for MCPS to innovate. Maybe MCPS should outsource cafeteria operations to a vendor completely. But the existing model isn't working for kids.

Many kids cannot afford that.

But many can. They’re ordering UberEats and DoorDash to school now, where there are closed lunches. And the schools that have open lunches, the kids are going to those restaurants and shops and buying. Bring those shops to the school instead of having the kids go to them.

Maybe in your world but I don’t know any kids doing that and mine are not. That would be terrible when not all kids can afford it.

This is the most ridiculous logic I've seen. Your head is in the sand if you don't know kids ordering food to school.

My kids go to a Title I high school and MCPS where an overwhelming majority of the kids qualify for FARMS. And yet, UberEats and DoorDash pull up REGULARLY.

Many MCPS principals have complained about this problem and the disruptions it causes.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/montgomery-county-school-cracks-down-on-students-ordering-lunch-to-campus/138179/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/students-bored-by-cafeteria-fare-love-food-delivery-services-schools-dont/2019/06/07/2568d12c-8617-11e9-98c1-e945ae5db8fb_story.html

The idea of MCPS partnering with the vendors to bring those foods to school is actually a suggestion from other educators and it makes sense:

We have vending machines that bring popular snacks and drinks to kids for purchase. Why not these other meals?

Absurd. I highly doubt many patents did that. But, our school clearly has better control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Einstein High School has a closed campus rule but the principal, Mark Brown, has stated that he will not enforce the rule.
As someone who lives near the school, I can tell you our neighborhood has been negatively affected.
Besides picking up trash every school day, I have photos of fights, drug use, drug deals and one student displaying a knife! I have passed these photos on to the principal and the BOE. Neither has done anything.
There are also those students roaming around after lunchtime and throughout the day. Einstein is a magnet school and very few, if any, of these kids live in the neighborhood.

I don't understand why MCPS gives principals this kind of latitude.

The truth is, Open Lunch has NEVER worked. Yes, there are some kids who do what they're supposed to do but the reality is, there will always be that minority of kids who abuse the privilege and ruin it for everybody. It was that way in '90s and it remains that way now.

So closed lunch IS the best way forward. But MCPS should look to partner with food vendors to have them do pop-ups to let kids buy the food INSIDE the school that they would buy outside. We have to stop pouring the money we pour into cafeteria food that the kids hate because it's tasteless, spoiled, or undesirable for whatever reasons. It's time for MCPS to innovate. Maybe MCPS should outsource cafeteria operations to a vendor completely. But the existing model isn't working for kids.

Many kids cannot afford that.

But many can. They’re ordering UberEats and DoorDash to school now, where there are closed lunches. And the schools that have open lunches, the kids are going to those restaurants and shops and buying. Bring those shops to the school instead of having the kids go to them.

Maybe in your world but I don’t know any kids doing that and mine are not. That would be terrible when not all kids can afford it.

This is the most ridiculous logic I've seen. Your head is in the sand if you don't know kids ordering food to school.

My kids go to a Title I high school and MCPS where an overwhelming majority of the kids qualify for FARMS. And yet, UberEats and DoorDash pull up REGULARLY.

Many MCPS principals have complained about this problem and the disruptions it causes.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/montgomery-county-school-cracks-down-on-students-ordering-lunch-to-campus/138179/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/students-bored-by-cafeteria-fare-love-food-delivery-services-schools-dont/2019/06/07/2568d12c-8617-11e9-98c1-e945ae5db8fb_story.html

The idea of MCPS partnering with the vendors to bring those foods to school is actually a suggestion from other educators and it makes sense:

We have vending machines that bring popular snacks and drinks to kids for purchase. Why not these other meals?

Absurd. I highly doubt many patents did that. But, our school clearly has better control.

I show you articles that cite that it's so prominent that it's happening not just in MCPS, but nationally. And that principals are having to put out communications and policies banning the practice because it has become such a nuisance and so common.

And your response is "I highly doubt many parents did that"?

Is your reading comprehension ok? Can you just admit that maybe you don't know what you're talking about and that your limited vantage point makes you ill-equipped to engage in the topic? Just bow out of the conversation instead of insisting your reality is the truth. Because it's not.

At best, you're just not in the know or paying attention to what goes on at your school. At worst, you're aware but are more invested in burying your head in the sand because you're that committed to advocating for the status quo and don't want to concede on anything that substantiates why it's not working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open campus lunch has worked for decades in many Montgomery County, Arlington, and DC public schools. It started in the late 60s and early 70s as students gained more freedom from then overbearing school administrations. MCPS, APS, and DCPS kept the open campus lunch policies in place because they worked so well over the years. Local businesses also benefited from the lunchtime rush. Student clubs, extracurriculars, and other activities are scheduled in coordination with the lunch periods. Also, notably, the public high schools with open lunches are within walking distance of homes, fast food joints, and businesses. The campuses also tend to be urban: B-CC, Walter Johnson, the former Blair, Jackson-Reed (Wilson), H-B Woodlawn, W-L, Yorktown, etc. Seniors in APS have open campus driving privileges.

Seneca Valley, which is not urban, used to have official open lunch, until a 15-year-old student was hit and killed while walking to school.

I don't know if Northwest ever had official open lunch, but that non-urban high school is also within walking distance of fast food.

This is tragic but mcps only provides bus service for two miles away. Our kids, if they walk have to cross major roads so this is a tragedy bound to happen without buses or guards. No family should experience that but it’s a separate issue from open lunch.

Most all DC area schools (except Fairfax County) has or had open campus for decades. Some schools have individually chosen to close campuses over the years. Most of the schools located in walkable urban areas have kept open campus for obvious reasons.

[Anonymous]

My high school had 2500 kids and we had 3 lunches. No kids were allowed to leave. It was fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My high school had 2500 kids and we had 3 lunches. No kids were allowed to leave. It was fine.

I don't remember the number of kids in my school, but I went to an MCPS high school in the '90s and it was the same. We had three lunches.

It was a little chaotic from a bell schedule perspective, but we managed fine. Of course, the three lunches came with other tradeoffs, such as kids sneaking out of class to go to a lunch they didn't belong in to visit their friends, but that seems better than the tradeoffs with the open lunch negatives.

[Anonymous]

Did anyone post already about Sherwood’s lunch?

The entire school has lunch at the same time. Just one lunch period for the entire school.

Very few kids venture into the cafeteria…that’s where FARMs students go.

No open lunch…but some kids slip out the door and venture off campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone post already about Sherwood’s lunch?

The entire school has lunch at the same time. Just one lunch period for the entire school.

Very few kids venture into the cafeteria…that’s where FARMs students go.

No open lunch…but some kids slip out the door and venture off campus.

That's how most closed campus lunches work in MCPS, no? I don't know of any MCPS high school with the multiple lunches model anymore.

[Anonymous]

Because MCPS is a system of schools, not a school system. Each principal wields an absurd amount of power over what happens in their building

This explains so much to me. I'm not even talking about lunch but I am so glad you posted this. Where we live now, the schools in FCPS are run so differently and I miss MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Because MCPS is a system of schools, not a school system. Each principal wields an absurd amount of power over what happens in their building

This explains so much to me. I'm not even talking about lunch but I am so glad you posted this. Where we live now, the schools in FCPS are run so differently and I miss MCPS.

That’s why FCPS unlike Arlington, DC, MCPS, etc., never had open campus. FCPS has always been very very top down, and in the 60s student concerns were never addressed adequately. Hence, no open campus culture developed there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open campus lunch has worked for decades in many Montgomery County, Arlington, and DC public schools. It started in the late 60s and early 70s as students gained more freedom from then overbearing school administrations. MCPS, APS, and DCPS kept the open campus lunch policies in place because they worked so well over the years. Local businesses also benefited from the lunchtime rush. Student clubs, extracurriculars, and other activities are scheduled in coordination with the lunch periods. Also, notably, the public high schools with open lunches are within walking distance of homes, fast food joints, and businesses. The campuses also tend to be urban: B-CC, Walter Johnson, the former Blair, Jackson-Reed (Wilson), H-B Woodlawn, W-L, Yorktown, etc. Seniors in APS have open campus driving privileges.

Seneca Valley, which is not urban, used to have official open lunch, until a 15-year-old student was hit and killed while walking to school.

I don't know if Northwest ever had official open lunch, but that non-urban high school is also within walking distance of fast food.

This is tragic but mcps only provides bus service for two miles away. Our kids, if they walk have to cross major roads so this is a tragedy bound to happen without buses or guards. No family should experience that but it’s a separate issue from open lunch.

That's not true at all, MCPS provides bus service to lots of kids to high school from less than 2 miles away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am still shocked Wawa is opening up in front of Gaithersburg high school.

That will be a train wreck.

Waited decades for a Wawa and it will be ruined in a month.

I hate it when convenience stores locate in locations that are convenient to their customers!

[Anonymous]

This is tragic but mcps only provides bus service for two miles away. Our kids, if they walk have to cross major roads so this is a tragedy bound to happen without buses or guards. No family should experience that but it’s a separate issue from open lunch.

That's not true at all, MCPS provides bus service to lots of kids to high school from less than 2 miles away.

Show your evidence please. We live 1.9 miles from school and have no bus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is tragic but mcps only provides bus service for two miles away. Our kids, if they walk have to cross major roads so this is a tragedy bound to happen without buses or guards. No family should experience that but it’s a separate issue from open lunch.

That's not true at all, MCPS provides bus service to lots of kids to high school from less than 2 miles away.

Show your evidence please. We live 1.9 miles from school and have no bus.

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/transportation/busroutes/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open campus lunch has worked for decades in many Montgomery County, Arlington, and DC public schools. It started in the late 60s and early 70s as students gained more freedom from then overbearing school administrations. MCPS, APS, and DCPS kept the open campus lunch policies in place because they worked so well over the years. Local businesses also benefited from the lunchtime rush. Student clubs, extracurriculars, and other activities are scheduled in coordination with the lunch periods. Also, notably, the public high schools with open lunches are within walking distance of homes, fast food joints, and businesses. The campuses also tend to be urban: B-CC, Walter Johnson, the former Blair, Jackson-Reed (Wilson), H-B Woodlawn, W-L, Yorktown, etc. Seniors in APS have open campus driving privileges.

Seneca Valley, which is not urban, used to have official open lunch, until a 15-year-old student was hit and killed while walking to school.

I don't know if Northwest ever had official open lunch, but that non-urban high school is also within walking distance of fast food.

This is tragic but mcps only provides bus service for two miles away. Our kids, if they walk have to cross major roads so this is a tragedy bound to happen without buses or guards. No family should experience that but it’s a separate issue from open lunch.

That's not true at all, MCPS provides bus service to lots of kids to high school from less than 2 miles away.

Only if they need to pass a 6+ lane road to get to school or don’t have adequate sidewalks/crosswalks on 4+ lane roadways