AP 3 in a sea of 4/5s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. DD is a rising junior. She has accommodations for anxiety. She works hard and is an excellent student. Her AP Gov teacher told her an essay she wrote was the best he’d ever read. I’m sure the essay portion was fine, but multiple choice tests kill her. She doubts herself, panics, changes answers. When she bombed her PSAT, she skipped entire sections. She even failed her learners’ permit test. Twice. I don’t know how to help her with this skill.

OP, two things that I’m sure you’re thinking of:
1- double check her accomodations with a few learning specialists to make sure she’s getting what is most helpful to her, and possibly retesting so she can carry it to college.
2- many small colleges pride themselves on no/few multiple choice/impersonal testing. It sounds like DD would thrive in these places.

[Anonymous]

My kid has a 3.91 GPA (4.51 weighted), 1400 SAT score, and APs were 1 (APUSH during COVID freshman year),2 (sophomore) and 3,3,3 (junior). Very good leadership EC's.

She probably won't submit AP scores to the more selective colleges on her list, but my question is - if she is admitted to a school that will accept 3's for credit, can she get credit if she attends one of those schools even if she did not submit the scores with her application?

In response to OP's post and the debate, I'm not worried about my child's future or college prospects. I know she probably won't get in to the 2 Ivy's she is applying to (which she's choosing to apply to despite the likelihood of rejection). But, I am confident she'll land in a good school that is right for her. But then again, I almost failed out of high school myself and ended up at a small college and then onto a competitive law school and I've been a lawyer for 20 years.

She doesn't go to a super competitive high school, and while there are a few high achievers who compare scores and she'll feel bad about her scores for a few days, there are plenty of kids who don't take APs at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Some of my strongest students in my AP classes are terrible test takers. I’ve never considered a score to be a solid indicator of college readiness. I have 20 years of experience watching average test takers (but great students) move on to strong colleges and advanced degrees. I have a relative with two masters and a PhD (all from great colleges) and he bombed the SAT and the GRE.

My own child just scored a 2 on one of his exams. I’m not that upset, and neither is he. He’ll be prepared for college and that score isn’t going to keep him out.

Genuine Question: How can someone be a strong student and a "terrible test taker"? Part of being a strong student involves demonstrating mastery of the subject matter. If you bomb all the tests and quizzes, then how are they demonstrating mastery?

That's like saying, "I'm an incredible actor. I just have terrible stage fright and freeze up on stage." You can't be a great actor if you can't perform when the spotlight is on....

And if you're not good at taking tests due to emotional/mental needs, a strong student should be self-aware and ensure they have the appropriate accommodations to compensate for that?

I’m the teacher PP.

There are many, many ways to demonstrate content knowledge. Multiple choice questions and formatted essays aren’t the only way. I actually prefer choice and project-based assignments for that very reason. I can actually see what my students know, and not what they memorized. (… and I am a highly regarded teacher who takes assessment methods courses on my own time each summer.)

People take test prep sessions to learn the skills associated with taking a test… the strategy. I have also had mediocre students who are good at test strategy.

I don’t see a clear correlation between high test scores and high performance.

AP teacher who understands the above, but also thinks that memorization is important, since "knowing" without actually being able to recall the information without aids/Google, etc. is pretty important. So, if your child or student is a "terrible test taker," that is an important thing to work on. They need to learn study skills, work on anxiety, etc. because they will face many stressful situations in their educational and professional lives and they need to be able to cope. I would really dispute the last sentence, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. DD is a rising junior. She has accommodations for anxiety. She works hard and is an excellent student. Her AP Gov teacher told her an essay she wrote was the best he’d ever read. I’m sure the essay portion was fine, but multiple choice tests kill her. She doubts herself, panics, changes answers. When she bombed her PSAT, she skipped entire sections. She even failed her learners’ permit test. Twice. I don’t know how to help her with this skill.

OP - AP teacher here. If your DD is a good essay writer, there are a couple of possible reasons for her 3 (which is a fine average score). The first is that she may not have the practice needed to write all of the required essays within the time allowed. There is real time pressure and some kids are perfectionists and write one or two excellent essays, but don't finish the rest, etc. (there are four on the U.S. GoPo exam). The second is that she may not have stamina. The exams are three hours long. Due to the limitations on class periods during the year, most kids don't practice taking the exam in one long stretch (although some teachers offer this at night or on Saturday).

Re: multiple choice practice. First make sure that she knows the material (most AP teachers provide study guides and vocabulary words). Next year, if she wants to improve, have her practice using a study guide. Give her a few sections of multiple choice questions (maybe 15 questions) and have her take the first couple of sections using her normal strategies. Then make sure that she is marking up her questions (underlining critical words), eliminating answers, reading ALL of the choices, etc. Then have her complete another couple of sections and tell her that she is not allowed to change any answers (you could have her use pen). Compare these performances. You should be able to tell whether it is anxiety (often these kids have a ton of eraser marks if using pencil, so it is easy for me to see.) But usually their first instinct is the correct choice.

A few things to know re: AP multiple choice.
1) They are now lots of passages, so reading speed is important
2) Often there is more than one technically correct answer; the College Board is looking for someone who can go beyond factual recall and think about applying those facts to a new situation. So I tell my kids to look for the MOST correct answer (don't just stop with one that sounds right)
3) Lots of kids get tripped up on EXCEPT questions (and there are usually quite a few of these) - teach your DD to reframe the question. In an EXCEPT question, she needs to find the three answer choices that are true, so these will be eliminated.
4) There are also lots of questions on the GoPo (and other Social Sciences exams) that compare two things (like this)

2. Which of the following is an accurate comparison of the arguments made in The Federalist 10 and Brutus 1?
The Federalist 10 ; Brutus 1
(A) Factions are inevitable with popular sovereignty. ; A strong national government is needed.
(B) Factions are most dangerous at the local level. ; Small republics are best for stable governments.
(C) Power should be concentrated in the executive branch to address factions. ; National government is too far from the people.
(D) The effects of factions cannot be controlled. ; Popular sovereignty leads to anarchy.


Kids will tie themselves in knots trying to read and think through choice A and then choice B, etc. Instead, she should think about what she knows about Federalist #10 before reading the choices. Then go down the first column and cross out anything that doesn't make sense for Federalist #10. Then she should think about what she knows about Brutus 1 before reading any choices, and then go down the list crossing out choices that don't make sense. She should be left with one row that has two answers that are not crossed out. That is the correct choice.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Some of my strongest students in my AP classes are terrible test takers. I’ve never considered a score to be a solid indicator of college readiness. I have 20 years of experience watching average test takers (but great students) move on to strong colleges and advanced degrees. I have a relative with two masters and a PhD (all from great colleges) and he bombed the SAT and the GRE.

My own child just scored a 2 on one of his exams. I’m not that upset, and neither is he. He’ll be prepared for college and that score isn’t going to keep him out.

Genuine Question: How can someone be a strong student and a "terrible test taker"? Part of being a strong student involves demonstrating mastery of the subject matter. If you bomb all the tests and quizzes, then how are they demonstrating mastery?

That's like saying, "I'm an incredible actor. I just have terrible stage fright and freeze up on stage." You can't be a great actor if you can't perform when the spotlight is on....

And if you're not good at taking tests due to emotional/mental needs, a strong student should be self-aware and ensure they have the appropriate accommodations to compensate for that?

I’m the teacher PP.

There are many, many ways to demonstrate content knowledge. Multiple choice questions and formatted essays aren’t the only way. I actually prefer choice and project-based assignments for that very reason. I can actually see what my students know, and not what they memorized. (… and I am a highly regarded teacher who takes assessment methods courses on my own time each summer.)

People take test prep sessions to learn the skills associated with taking a test… the strategy. I have also had mediocre students who are good at test strategy.

I don’t see a clear correlation between high test scores and high performance.

Maybe there's not a 1:1 correlation between high test scores and high performance, but there's no way they're totally uncorrelated.

And while it's nice that you favor project-based assignments, they come with their own tradeoffs and downsides.

What's your solution? Just get rid of the AP exams altogether because....you don't like them? Or you think they're unreliable barometers of student knowledge and success?

Project-based assessments are very subjective, which opens up all kinds of biases and inconsistencies so I don't see trading one for the other as really solving the problem.

You’re simply being hyperbolic. Did I suggest… or even remotely imply… that we should get rid of AP tests? No, I didn’t. They are one data point.

I’m not sure why it’s a threatening notion that there are educators (many of us) who don’t put all of our eggs in a high-stakes test basket.

I get more valuable data regarding my students’ progress from project based assessments. I’m able to get a better handle on an individual student’s strengths and setbacks this way. I spend a ton of time doing this. I suppose I can throw an old AP test their way, which would save me a ton of time. I wouldn’t be serving the students nearly as well, though.

I actually value learning, the joy of learning, and the retention of knowledge. I don’t value high-stakes multiple choice assessments as much. I don’t think of my students as scores.

I suspect you care a lot about scores. Have at it. They are a great way to get into colleges. Just know they aren’t the only way. I’ve taught over 3,200 students so far in my career. I’ve learned not to base a student’s success off a test score. Good thing, too, since many mediocre test takers went on to be tremendously successful.

You're painting me with the same hyperbolic brush you're accusing me of.

I never said tests were the only thing that mattered. But I do think they're an important part of the learning process and students who struggle or fail at them should not be brushed aside and just chalked up to "some kids don't test well."

That's the main point I was making, as that line of talk and thinking seems to be more prevalent among parents and teachers and I don't think it's healthy or helpful to kids. It gives kids an out and an excuse from getting better at tests because some educators, like yourself, give them a hall pass that maybe they're just not a good test taker.

We should be teaching kids to develop the self-awareness to figure out why they're doing poorly on the test and implement strategies and tactics to overcome the hurdles and obstacles that are preventing them from doing well on the tests. It's called developing resilience and it's severely lacking in students today.

Soft skills like resiliency can be taught through essay revisions, project feedback, etc. Self awareness doesn’t need to be merely linked to test taking skills.

I agree these traits are lacking in students. I disagree that objective multiple choice tests are the way to teach them (or remotely the best way).

You say this as if tests are the only way students get evaluated throughout a class. They aren't. Throughout the course of any given class, there's a mixture of the exact things you mention (essays, projects, classwork, homework, etc.), which yes, does include tests. So that's already happening, which means kids are being evaluated on more than just tests?

Or is it that you specifically think the AP Exam itself is what's broken, because it is a multiple choice test? If so, what would you replace it with?

Also, doesn't throwing out tests harm the kids who are good at them and work hard to succeed at them? Why is their success invalidated to validate those who are "bad test takers"?

There’s no point for us to argue. I don’t disagree with your claims above. I never claimed that the AP test is broken, nor did I claim that we don’t use multiple choice as one form of many assessments.

Nobody has invalidated high-scoring students’ success. Nobody. Saying somebody has suggests insecurity. I just refuse to invalidate students’ potential because of lower test scores. There’s no reason to assume students are doomed because of a 2 or 3 on an AP exam. These can still be remarkably strong students. I’ve known many. Many.

DCUM is very stats-driven, to the point of forgetting we are talking about children

I've been teaching AP classes for 15 years and I have known incredibly intelligent students who received 2s, but they are NEVER "strong" students because they almost all have terrible work habits. There is a difference. So, I would disagree with the teacher above. These students aren't doomed, but neither are the kids receiving 2s "remarkably strong students."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back in the day I took 3 AP’s and got 2’s on all of them! I’m happy to report I am now a productive member of society and am very happy 😂

Exactly. My 1 on AP French and Calc hasn't held me back

NP. Conversely, I got 5s on every AP test I took. Went to UVA with 27 credits under my belt and my career has been a total bust. You all would laugh at my salary. These tests are not predictive of much.

They aren't predicting your capacity for a career. They are supposed to be measuring your mastery of actual college content, in comparison with other students. It got you a year of credit. And BTW - salary is not how you measure a successful career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids got 1s and 2s on their AP exams, despite getting A's and B's in the class. Like you, I think it also proves they're probably not college ready, which I kind of already knew and have warned them about. I think freshman year for one of my kids is going to be brutal. But again, I knew that because he struggled massively with the SAT.

A portion of this discrepancy I lay at the kids' feet because I think these kids never learned how to study due to COVID and relaxed expectations. To do well on these tests, you have to be motivated, disciplined and willing to put in the time and the effort. I bought my kids the AP Princeton AP study guides, and I can tell you they barely touched them. I fought with them about whether they were prepared for the tests and they insisted they were. Now that the exam scores have come out, all they can do is shrug.

But I also have to question MCPS, because how are kids getting A's and B's in your AP classes but 1-3 on the AP tests? That suggest grade inflation and lowered rigor, which shows up when the kids have to take a national test that doesn't match the difficulty level of what they were doing in the classroom.

MCPS is not setting up our kids for success and they need to be holding themselves accountable to not just kids taking the AP classes, but how many are doing well on the exams. Because it's clear that it's very easy to give kids A's and B's in the class and still have them tank the exams.

Agree with this! Soooo much grade inflation. EVERYONE thinks they’re smart and studied hard when they are — for THIS area— only slightly above average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Some of my strongest students in my AP classes are terrible test takers. I’ve never considered a score to be a solid indicator of college readiness. I have 20 years of experience watching average test takers (but great students) move on to strong colleges and advanced degrees. I have a relative with two masters and a PhD (all from great colleges) and he bombed the SAT and the GRE.

My own child just scored a 2 on one of his exams. I’m not that upset, and neither is he. He’ll be prepared for college and that score isn’t going to keep him out.

Genuine Question: How can someone be a strong student and a "terrible test taker"? Part of being a strong student involves demonstrating mastery of the subject matter. If you bomb all the tests and quizzes, then how are they demonstrating mastery?

That's like saying, "I'm an incredible actor. I just have terrible stage fright and freeze up on stage." You can't be a great actor if you can't perform when the spotlight is on....

And if you're not good at taking tests due to emotional/mental needs, a strong student should be self-aware and ensure they have the appropriate accommodations to compensate for that?

+1 my surgeon is great it’s just that he has shaky hands lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids got 1s and 2s on their AP exams, despite getting A's and B's in the class. Like you, I think it also proves they're probably not college ready, which I kind of already knew and have warned them about. I think freshman year for one of my kids is going to be brutal. But again, I knew that because he struggled massively with the SAT.

A portion of this discrepancy I lay at the kids' feet because I think these kids never learned how to study due to COVID and relaxed expectations. To do well on these tests, you have to be motivated, disciplined and willing to put in the time and the effort. I bought my kids the AP Princeton AP study guides, and I can tell you they barely touched them. I fought with them about whether they were prepared for the tests and they insisted they were. Now that the exam scores have come out, all they can do is shrug.

But I also have to question MCPS, because how are kids getting A's and B's in your AP classes but 1-3 on the AP tests? That suggest grade inflation and lowered rigor, which shows up when the kids have to take a national test that doesn't match the difficulty level of what they were doing in the classroom.

MCPS is not setting up our kids for success and they need to be holding themselves accountable to not just kids taking the AP classes, but how many are doing well on the exams. Because it's clear that it's very easy to give kids A's and B's in the class and still have them tank the exams.

Agree with this! Soooo much grade inflation. EVERYONE thinks they’re smart and studied hard when they are — for THIS area— only slightly above average.

I don't think it's that hard to get As or Bs over the course of a long school year. May or may not be grade inflation, but students need to be disciplined to review all of the material covered in the month leading up to the exam, and that's quite a lot. I suspect that's where the ball is primarily being dropped. DC worked very hard to review and take practice tests before each AP exam, and earned 5s on all of them so far. In her case, there is a correlation between course grades and test results but that extra step is very much needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid has a 3.91 GPA (4.51 weighted), 1400 SAT score, and APs were 1 (APUSH during COVID freshman year),2 (sophomore) and 3,3,3 (junior). Very good leadership EC's.

She probably won't submit AP scores to the more selective colleges on her list, but my question is - if she is admitted to a school that will accept 3's for credit, can she get credit if she attends one of those schools even if she did not submit the scores with her application?

In response to OP's post and the debate, I'm not worried about my child's future or college prospects. I know she probably won't get in to the 2 Ivy's she is applying to (which she's choosing to apply to despite the likelihood of rejection). But, I am confident she'll land in a good school that is right for her. But then again, I almost failed out of high school myself and ended up at a small college and then onto a competitive law school and I've been a lawyer for 20 years.

She doesn't go to a super competitive high school, and while there are a few high achievers who compare scores and she'll feel bad about her scores for a few days, there are plenty of kids who don't take APs at all.

My kid is at a similar MCPS high school and the scores of her fellow students are fairly low, mainly 2s with a few 3s. 5s are rare.

Her scores this year were 2, 4, 4 and she feels really good about them overall (though the 2 is unfortunate). I think it’s all relative to the peer group.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know how accurate this website is, but found this comparison interesting.

https://www.totalregistration.net/AP-Exam-Registration-Service/AP-Exam-Score-Distributions.php

It may feel like every kid is getting 4/5 scores, but the reality is quite different. AP Government was one of the harder tests, and 24% of students scored better than a 3. More than half scored worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Some of my strongest students in my AP classes are terrible test takers. I’ve never considered a score to be a solid indicator of college readiness. I have 20 years of experience watching average test takers (but great students) move on to strong colleges and advanced degrees. I have a relative with two masters and a PhD (all from great colleges) and he bombed the SAT and the GRE.

My own child just scored a 2 on one of his exams. I’m not that upset, and neither is he. He’ll be prepared for college and that score isn’t going to keep him out.

Shut yo fool

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Some of my strongest students in my AP classes are terrible test takers. I’ve never considered a score to be a solid indicator of college readiness. I have 20 years of experience watching average test takers (but great students) move on to strong colleges and advanced degrees. I have a relative with two masters and a PhD (all from great colleges) and he bombed the SAT and the GRE.

My own child just scored a 2 on one of his exams. I’m not that upset, and neither is he. He’ll be prepared for college and that score isn’t going to keep him out.

Genuine Question: How can someone be a strong student and a "terrible test taker"? Part of being a strong student involves demonstrating mastery of the subject matter. If you bomb all the tests and quizzes, then how are they demonstrating mastery?

That's like saying, "I'm an incredible actor. I just have terrible stage fright and freeze up on stage." You can't be a great actor if you can't perform when the spotlight is on....

And if you're not good at taking tests due to emotional/mental needs, a strong student should be self-aware and ensure they have the appropriate accommodations to compensate for that?

I’m the teacher PP.

There are many, many ways to demonstrate content knowledge. Multiple choice questions and formatted essays aren’t the only way. I actually prefer choice and project-based assignments for that very reason. I can actually see what my students know, and not what they memorized. (… and I am a highly regarded teacher who takes assessment methods courses on my own time each summer.)

People take test prep sessions to learn the skills associated with taking a test… the strategy. I have also had mediocre students who are good at test strategy.

I don’t see a clear correlation between high test scores and high performance.

Maybe there's not a 1:1 correlation between high test scores and high performance, but there's no way they're totally uncorrelated.

And while it's nice that you favor project-based assignments, they come with their own tradeoffs and downsides.

What's your solution? Just get rid of the AP exams altogether because....you don't like them? Or you think they're unreliable barometers of student knowledge and success?

Project-based assessments are very subjective, which opens up all kinds of biases and inconsistencies so I don't see trading one for the other as really solving the problem.

You’re simply being hyperbolic. Did I suggest… or even remotely imply… that we should get rid of AP tests? No, I didn’t. They are one data point.

I’m not sure why it’s a threatening notion that there are educators (many of us) who don’t put all of our eggs in a high-stakes test basket.

I get more valuable data regarding my students’ progress from project based assessments. I’m able to get a better handle on an individual student’s strengths and setbacks this way. I spend a ton of time doing this. I suppose I can throw an old AP test their way, which would save me a ton of time. I wouldn’t be serving the students nearly as well, though.

I actually value learning, the joy of learning, and the retention of knowledge. I don’t value high-stakes multiple choice assessments as much. I don’t think of my students as scores.

I suspect you care a lot about scores. Have at it. They are a great way to get into colleges. Just know they aren’t the only way. I’ve taught over 3,200 students so far in my career. I’ve learned not to base a student’s success off a test score. Good thing, too, since many mediocre test takers went on to be tremendously successful.

You're painting me with the same hyperbolic brush you're accusing me of.

I never said tests were the only thing that mattered. But I do think they're an important part of the learning process and students who struggle or fail at them should not be brushed aside and just chalked up to "some kids don't test well."

That's the main point I was making, as that line of talk and thinking seems to be more prevalent among parents and teachers and I don't think it's healthy or helpful to kids. It gives kids an out and an excuse from getting better at tests because some educators, like yourself, give them a hall pass that maybe they're just not a good test taker.

We should be teaching kids to develop the self-awareness to figure out why they're doing poorly on the test and implement strategies and tactics to overcome the hurdles and obstacles that are preventing them from doing well on the tests. It's called developing resilience and it's severely lacking in students today.

Soft skills like resiliency can be taught through essay revisions, project feedback, etc. Self awareness doesn’t need to be merely linked to test taking skills.

I agree these traits are lacking in students. I disagree that objective multiple choice tests are the way to teach them (or remotely the best way).

You say this as if tests are the only way students get evaluated throughout a class. They aren't. Throughout the course of any given class, there's a mixture of the exact things you mention (essays, projects, classwork, homework, etc.), which yes, does include tests. So that's already happening, which means kids are being evaluated on more than just tests?

Or is it that you specifically think the AP Exam itself is what's broken, because it is a multiple choice test? If so, what would you replace it with?

Also, doesn't throwing out tests harm the kids who are good at them and work hard to succeed at them? Why is their success invalidated to validate those who are "bad test takers"?

There’s no point for us to argue. I don’t disagree with your claims above. I never claimed that the AP test is broken, nor did I claim that we don’t use multiple choice as one form of many assessments.

Nobody has invalidated high-scoring students’ success. Nobody. Saying somebody has suggests insecurity. I just refuse to invalidate students’ potential because of lower test scores. There’s no reason to assume students are doomed because of a 2 or 3 on an AP exam. These can still be remarkably strong students. I’ve known many. Many.

DCUM is very stats-driven, to the point of forgetting we are talking about children

I've been teaching AP classes for 15 years and I have known incredibly intelligent students who received 2s, but they are NEVER "strong" students because they almost all have terrible work habits. There is a difference. So, I would disagree with the teacher above. These students aren't doomed, but neither are the kids receiving 2s "remarkably strong students."

I’m the PP. Are you comfortable with that word “never”? I just spent the past couple of minutes thinking back through my many years of teaching AP and IB. I can think of a good number of students who scores 2-ish scores who went on to great universities, advanced degrees, and successful careers. None of this would be possible if they weren’t strong students. One of my lower IB scores went to a student who is among the top of her class in a challenging nursing program right now. She has a strong work ethic, a lot of intellectual curiosity, and proven performance in places other than AP/IB exams.

“Never” is way too absolute of a word. I challenge you to think back. You really can’t think of one strong student who performed poorly on an AP exam? Really? And they all have poor work habits? Really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Some of my strongest students in my AP classes are terrible test takers. I’ve never considered a score to be a solid indicator of college readiness. I have 20 years of experience watching average test takers (but great students) move on to strong colleges and advanced degrees. I have a relative with two masters and a PhD (all from great colleges) and he bombed the SAT and the GRE.

My own child just scored a 2 on one of his exams. I’m not that upset, and neither is he. He’ll be prepared for college and that score isn’t going to keep him out.

Shut yo fool

I’m the PP. Help me out here. Is this suppose to be an insult?

I don’t understand why people are fighting this. You can be successful without doing well on AP exams. (We all acknowledge there are plenty of students who don’t even attempt AP, correct? Are they also doomed to failure as adults?)

Acknowledging AP isn’t the only path to success doesn’t detract from the success of those who do well on these exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Some of my strongest students in my AP classes are terrible test takers. I’ve never considered a score to be a solid indicator of college readiness. I have 20 years of experience watching average test takers (but great students) move on to strong colleges and advanced degrees. I have a relative with two masters and a PhD (all from great colleges) and he bombed the SAT and the GRE.

My own child just scored a 2 on one of his exams. I’m not that upset, and neither is he. He’ll be prepared for college and that score isn’t going to keep him out.

Shut yo fool

I’m the PP. Help me out here. Is this suppose to be an insult?

I don’t understand why people are fighting this. You can be successful without doing well on AP exams. (We all acknowledge there are plenty of students who don’t even attempt AP, correct? Are they also doomed to failure as adults?)

Acknowledging AP isn’t the only path to success doesn’t detract from the success of those who do well on these exams.

I don’t understand this anger either. Maybe PP is threatened because his/her kid got a 5 and doesn’t want to muddy the waters. I appreciate your perspective. I agree that performance on a standardized test and mastery of the subject matter are not mutually exclusive.