AP 3 in a sea of 4/5s

[Anonymous]

OP here. DD is a rising junior. She has accommodations for anxiety. She works hard and is an excellent student. Her AP Gov teacher told her an essay she wrote was the best he’d ever read. I’m sure the essay portion was fine, but multiple choice tests kill her. She doubts herself, panics, changes answers. When she bombed her PSAT, she skipped entire sections. She even failed her learners’ permit test. Twice. I don’t know how to help her with this skill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Some of my strongest students in my AP classes are terrible test takers. I’ve never considered a score to be a solid indicator of college readiness. I have 20 years of experience watching average test takers (but great students) move on to strong colleges and advanced degrees. I have a relative with two masters and a PhD (all from great colleges) and he bombed the SAT and the GRE.

My own child just scored a 2 on one of his exams. I’m not that upset, and neither is he. He’ll be prepared for college and that score isn’t going to keep him out.

Genuine Question: How can someone be a strong student and a "terrible test taker"? Part of being a strong student involves demonstrating mastery of the subject matter. If you bomb all the tests and quizzes, then how are they demonstrating mastery?

That's like saying, "I'm an incredible actor. I just have terrible stage fright and freeze up on stage." You can't be a great actor if you can't perform when the spotlight is on....

And if you're not good at taking tests due to emotional/mental needs, a strong student should be self-aware and ensure they have the appropriate accommodations to compensate for that?

I'm not a live entertainer. I haven't had a test on the job in 20 years.

[Anonymous]

OP my son was the same, he got 100% in AP Gov't in terms of his classwork / homework etc and then got a 3 in the AP exam.

I recommend if she takes another exam you get hold of a Barrons or a Princeton Review study book. It has practice tests and shows the weight of the testing - multiple choice / short answer questions, / long answer questions and what the criteria for each section has.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. DD is a rising junior. She has accommodations for anxiety. She works hard and is an excellent student. Her AP Gov teacher told her an essay she wrote was the best he’d ever read. I’m sure the essay portion was fine, but multiple choice tests kill her. She doubts herself, panics, changes answers. When she bombed her PSAT, she skipped entire sections. She even failed her learners’ permit test. Twice. I don’t know how to help her with this skill.

Rising Junior?!

I have devastating news. Your 16 year old child is not ready to start college in August.

[Anonymous]

It’s OK if they’re not college ready in Sophomore year of high school. And college is a lot more nuanced than a standardized test. DD got 3s and I’m cool with that.

[Anonymous]

My DD got 1s. We’re all good. She does have accommodations now (obtained after tests unfortunately). She’ll be fine.

[Anonymous]

My kid got a 5 on AP Gov but got a B 2nd semester. I think the GPA is more important than the test score.

[Anonymous]

If she’s worried about college admissions, let her know that my son didn’t submit and test scores and he was admitted to most schools he applied to including two highly selective schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is your fault. You are raising her in a high pressure and competitive environment and it’s not healthy. Why is she discussing AP exam scores with her friends? Why is she devastated over a damned 3? Is this really the way you want to raise her? I guarantee you a few years from now she’s going to be super bitter and blame you.

dp.. please. Kids pick up pressure from each other, not always the parents.

My kid is the exact same as OP's - 3 on APGov, A in the class. DC said they studied a lot. I never pressured DC to get more than a 3. In fact, I told DC that if they fail it, it's not the end of the world. DC took another AP and got a 2. DC cried over both scores because of how hard they studied but still got a bad score.

I comforted DC, and told them that it's possible that the way they studied wasn't really conducive to absorbing what they were reading. I won't go into how they studied, but I told DC that this wasn't the way to do it, but DC wouldn't listen to me.

Also, IMO, grade inflation is not helping. These kids think that because they got an A in the class that they know the material, but grade inflation means that their A may really be a B, and so on. IMO, it makes them over confident, and I think that this is what happened to my DC.

Now DC knows after learning the lesson the hard way - learn to study, and getting an A in the class means nothing. This part I blame the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid got a 5 on AP Gov but got a B 2nd semester. I think the GPA is more important than the test score.

no, grade inflation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is your fault. You are raising her in a high pressure and competitive environment and it’s not healthy. Why is she discussing AP exam scores with her friends? Why is she devastated over a damned 3? Is this really the way you want to raise her? I guarantee you a few years from now she’s going to be super bitter and blame you.

dp.. please. Kids pick up pressure from each other, not always the parents.

My kid is the exact same as OP's - 3 on APGov, A in the class. DC said they studied a lot. I never pressured DC to get more than a 3. In fact, I told DC that if they fail it, it's not the end of the world. DC took another AP and got a 2. DC cried over both scores because of how hard they studied but still got a bad score.

I comforted DC, and told them that it's possible that the way they studied wasn't really conducive to absorbing what they were reading. I won't go into how they studied, but I told DC that this wasn't the way to do it, but DC wouldn't listen to me.

Also, IMO, grade inflation is not helping. These kids think that because they got an A in the class that they know the material, but grade inflation means that their A may really be a B, and so on. IMO, it makes them over confident, and I think that this is what happened to my DC.

Now DC knows after learning the lesson the hard way - learn to study, and getting an A in the class means nothing. This part I blame the schools.

Yup and yup. I'm the PP who posted about my kids getting 1s and 2s. Same experience I had with my two kids.

So again, the kids do bear responsibility for these results, but so does the school and the teacher.

For example, my son's biggest complaint/excuse for his score on the AP US History exam is that the teacher was so far behind on the material that there was a huge portion of the exam that they never covered in class.

While I sympathized with him, he had the Princeton Review study guide. So he could have done it on his own, if he was motivated enough. But he wasn't, so he didn't and he has to live with the score he earned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Some of my strongest students in my AP classes are terrible test takers. I’ve never considered a score to be a solid indicator of college readiness. I have 20 years of experience watching average test takers (but great students) move on to strong colleges and advanced degrees. I have a relative with two masters and a PhD (all from great colleges) and he bombed the SAT and the GRE.

My own child just scored a 2 on one of his exams. I’m not that upset, and neither is he. He’ll be prepared for college and that score isn’t going to keep him out.

Genuine Question: How can someone be a strong student and a "terrible test taker"? Part of being a strong student involves demonstrating mastery of the subject matter. If you bomb all the tests and quizzes, then how are they demonstrating mastery?

That's like saying, "I'm an incredible actor. I just have terrible stage fright and freeze up on stage." You can't be a great actor if you can't perform when the spotlight is on....

And if you're not good at taking tests due to emotional/mental needs, a strong student should be self-aware and ensure they have the appropriate accommodations to compensate for that?

I’m the teacher PP.

There are many, many ways to demonstrate content knowledge. Multiple choice questions and formatted essays aren’t the only way. I actually prefer choice and project-based assignments for that very reason. I can actually see what my students know, and not what they memorized. (… and I am a highly regarded teacher who takes assessment methods courses on my own time each summer.)

People take test prep sessions to learn the skills associated with taking a test… the strategy. I have also had mediocre students who are good at test strategy.

I don’t see a clear correlation between high test scores and high performance.

Maybe there's not a 1:1 correlation between high test scores and high performance, but there's no way they're totally uncorrelated.

And while it's nice that you favor project-based assignments, they come with their own tradeoffs and downsides.

What's your solution? Just get rid of the AP exams altogether because....you don't like them? Or you think they're unreliable barometers of student knowledge and success?

Project-based assessments are very subjective, which opens up all kinds of biases and inconsistencies so I don't see trading one for the other as really solving the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is your fault. You are raising her in a high pressure and competitive environment and it’s not healthy. Why is she discussing AP exam scores with her friends? Why is she devastated over a damned 3? Is this really the way you want to raise her? I guarantee you a few years from now she’s going to be super bitter and blame you.

dp.. please. Kids pick up pressure from each other, not always the parents.

My kid is the exact same as OP's - 3 on APGov, A in the class. DC said they studied a lot. I never pressured DC to get more than a 3. In fact, I told DC that if they fail it, it's not the end of the world. DC took another AP and got a 2. DC cried over both scores because of how hard they studied but still got a bad score.

I comforted DC, and told them that it's possible that the way they studied wasn't really conducive to absorbing what they were reading. I won't go into how they studied, but I told DC that this wasn't the way to do it, but DC wouldn't listen to me.

Also, IMO, grade inflation is not helping. These kids think that because they got an A in the class that they know the material, but grade inflation means that their A may really be a B, and so on. IMO, it makes them over confident, and I think that this is what happened to my DC.

Now DC knows after learning the lesson the hard way - learn to study, and getting an A in the class means nothing. This part I blame the schools.

Not nice to tease like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Some of my strongest students in my AP classes are terrible test takers. I’ve never considered a score to be a solid indicator of college readiness. I have 20 years of experience watching average test takers (but great students) move on to strong colleges and advanced degrees. I have a relative with two masters and a PhD (all from great colleges) and he bombed the SAT and the GRE.

My own child just scored a 2 on one of his exams. I’m not that upset, and neither is he. He’ll be prepared for college and that score isn’t going to keep him out.

Genuine Question: How can someone be a strong student and a "terrible test taker"? Part of being a strong student involves demonstrating mastery of the subject matter. If you bomb all the tests and quizzes, then how are they demonstrating mastery?

That's like saying, "I'm an incredible actor. I just have terrible stage fright and freeze up on stage." You can't be a great actor if you can't perform when the spotlight is on....

And if you're not good at taking tests due to emotional/mental needs, a strong student should be self-aware and ensure they have the appropriate accommodations to compensate for that?

I’m the teacher PP.

There are many, many ways to demonstrate content knowledge. Multiple choice questions and formatted essays aren’t the only way. I actually prefer choice and project-based assignments for that very reason. I can actually see what my students know, and not what they memorized. (… and I am a highly regarded teacher who takes assessment methods courses on my own time each summer.)

People take test prep sessions to learn the skills associated with taking a test… the strategy. I have also had mediocre students who are good at test strategy.

I don’t see a clear correlation between high test scores and high performance.

Maybe there's not a 1:1 correlation between high test scores and high performance, but there's no way they're totally uncorrelated.

And while it's nice that you favor project-based assignments, they come with their own tradeoffs and downsides.

What's your solution? Just get rid of the AP exams altogether because....you don't like them? Or you think they're unreliable barometers of student knowledge and success?

Project-based assessments are very subjective, which opens up all kinds of biases and inconsistencies so I don't see trading one for the other as really solving the problem.

So, why bother trying to get it right when we can get it reliably wrong?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Some of my strongest students in my AP classes are terrible test takers. I’ve never considered a score to be a solid indicator of college readiness. I have 20 years of experience watching average test takers (but great students) move on to strong colleges and advanced degrees. I have a relative with two masters and a PhD (all from great colleges) and he bombed the SAT and the GRE.

My own child just scored a 2 on one of his exams. I’m not that upset, and neither is he. He’ll be prepared for college and that score isn’t going to keep him out.

Genuine Question: How can someone be a strong student and a "terrible test taker"? Part of being a strong student involves demonstrating mastery of the subject matter. If you bomb all the tests and quizzes, then how are they demonstrating mastery?

That's like saying, "I'm an incredible actor. I just have terrible stage fright and freeze up on stage." You can't be a great actor if you can't perform when the spotlight is on....

And if you're not good at taking tests due to emotional/mental needs, a strong student should be self-aware and ensure they have the appropriate accommodations to compensate for that?

I’m the teacher PP.

There are many, many ways to demonstrate content knowledge. Multiple choice questions and formatted essays aren’t the only way. I actually prefer choice and project-based assignments for that very reason. I can actually see what my students know, and not what they memorized. (… and I am a highly regarded teacher who takes assessment methods courses on my own time each summer.)

People take test prep sessions to learn the skills associated with taking a test… the strategy. I have also had mediocre students who are good at test strategy.

I don’t see a clear correlation between high test scores and high performance.

Maybe there's not a 1:1 correlation between high test scores and high performance, but there's no way they're totally uncorrelated.

And while it's nice that you favor project-based assignments, they come with their own tradeoffs and downsides.

What's your solution? Just get rid of the AP exams altogether because....you don't like them? Or you think they're unreliable barometers of student knowledge and success?

Project-based assessments are very subjective, which opens up all kinds of biases and inconsistencies so I don't see trading one for the other as really solving the problem.

So, why bother trying to get it right when we can get it reliably wrong?

I don't think a mindset that rigidly says "All tests are bad so we should get rid of them" does anyone any good, nor does it pass the common sense test.