Immersion program may leave gunston

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Is this good or bad for Kenmore (for the non-immersion crowd)?


I think it’s a non-issue as long as it doesn’t mean they take a lot of the higher SES planning units out of the Kenmore boundary to make room for the program. I think they shouldn’t redo the Kenmore boundary by much, unless and until the new location proves itself as more desirable, necessitating more seats. I remember when they talked about moving immersion previously, and they didn’t think it required a simultaneous boundary tweak. Kenmore is still below capacity, so seems like they shouldn’t need to move many or any PUs at this time, especially since we have no idea how this will affect people’s plans for immersion in MS.

Whelp buried on page 154 of the Pre-CIP report they have a draft map and they are in fact moving about 2/3rds of the planning units north of Rt. 50 to Swanson. So basically moving most of the higher SES units out. And splitting Arlington Forest. Probably doesn't bode well for the non-immersion kids.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/06/Pre-CIP-Report-2024-2033-Finalv2.pdf

[Anonymous]

I wonder how long until they just nix the entire immersion program past elementary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how long until they just nix the entire immersion program past elementary.

Nix it there too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not move Immersion to way under capacity Williamsburg? Any other boundary change nukes walk zones and escalates busing costs and bus ride times for almost all schools.

The transportation study said that moving immersion to Williamsburg would have negative impacts on transportation, so maybe that is why? I think the choices are between TJ and Kenmore. But also Williamsburg doesn't have very many spanish speaking families surrounding it and that is one of the reasons for the move.

A-130 of the pre CIP report shows that Williamsburg would require the same number of buses for the immersion students only. That doesn’t even take into consideration additional buses for student moved from Swanson and Hamm walk zones to Williamsburg to accommodate Immersion at Kenmore. That along with moving high income units out of Kenmore makes me think that moving the program to Williamsburg is best for the district as a whole, even though it’s suboptimal for Immersion. The question is whether APS is going to continue to prioritize special optional programs over the general population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not move Immersion to way under capacity Williamsburg? Any other boundary change nukes walk zones and escalates busing costs and bus ride times for almost all schools.

The transportation study said that moving immersion to Williamsburg would have negative impacts on transportation, so maybe that is why? I think the choices are between TJ and Kenmore. But also Williamsburg doesn't have very many spanish speaking families surrounding it and that is one of the reasons for the move.

A-130 of the pre CIP report shows that Williamsburg would require the same number of buses for the immersion students only. That doesn’t even take into consideration additional buses for student moved from Swanson and Hamm walk zones to Williamsburg to accommodate Immersion at Kenmore. That along with moving high income units out of Kenmore makes me think that moving the program to Williamsburg is best for the district as a whole, even though it’s suboptimal for Immersion. The question is whether APS is going to continue to prioritize special optional programs over the general population.

How would you define “special optional programs”? There are potentially a lot of things beyond immersion that fall under the “special optional programs” umbrella.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how long until they just nix the entire immersion program past elementary.

Nix it there too

Why would they do this? It’s a very popular program with a lot of educational benefits?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not move Immersion to way under capacity Williamsburg? Any other boundary change nukes walk zones and escalates busing costs and bus ride times for almost all schools.

The transportation study said that moving immersion to Williamsburg would have negative impacts on transportation, so maybe that is why? I think the choices are between TJ and Kenmore. But also Williamsburg doesn't have very many spanish speaking families surrounding it and that is one of the reasons for the move.

A-130 of the pre CIP report shows that Williamsburg would require the same number of buses for the immersion students only. That doesn’t even take into consideration additional buses for student moved from Swanson and Hamm walk zones to Williamsburg to accommodate Immersion at Kenmore. That along with moving high income units out of Kenmore makes me think that moving the program to Williamsburg is best for the district as a whole, even though it’s suboptimal for Immersion. The question is whether APS is going to continue to prioritize special optional programs over the general population.

How would you define “special optional programs”? There are potentially a lot of things beyond immersion that fall under the “special optional programs” umbrella.

These:
https://www.apsva.us/school-options/

Look in the Pre CIP. The middle schools have anywhere from 6-9 buses for the general population… and then Immersion uses 9 all by itself! It’s on page A-131. Again, this analysis does not consider any ripple effect of moving students out of walkzones to accommodate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Is this good or bad for Kenmore (for the non-immersion crowd)?


I think it’s a non-issue as long as it doesn’t mean they take a lot of the higher SES planning units out of the Kenmore boundary to make room for the program. I think they shouldn’t redo the Kenmore boundary by much, unless and until the new location proves itself as more desirable, necessitating more seats. I remember when they talked about moving immersion previously, and they didn’t think it required a simultaneous boundary tweak. Kenmore is still below capacity, so seems like they shouldn’t need to move many or any PUs at this time, especially since we have no idea how this will affect people’s plans for immersion in MS.

Whelp buried on page 154 of the Pre-CIP report they have a draft map and they are in fact moving about 2/3rds of the planning units north of Rt. 50 to Swanson. So basically moving most of the higher SES units out. And splitting Arlington Forest. Probably doesn't bode well for the non-immersion kids.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/06/Pre-CIP-Report-2024-2033-Finalv2.pdf

This is freaking terrible. They’re splitting up a bunch of neighborhoods and even taking the walk zone to move the program in? Or is it to “fill” the N MS more? Damn it, Kenmore has to take it on the chin for others with all those extra buses and making their disadvantaged population even more so? F*** this! Leave the current Kenmore boundary alone and move Immersion to one of the schools with space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Is this good or bad for Kenmore (for the non-immersion crowd)?


I think it’s a non-issue as long as it doesn’t mean they take a lot of the higher SES planning units out of the Kenmore boundary to make room for the program. I think they shouldn’t redo the Kenmore boundary by much, unless and until the new location proves itself as more desirable, necessitating more seats. I remember when they talked about moving immersion previously, and they didn’t think it required a simultaneous boundary tweak. Kenmore is still below capacity, so seems like they shouldn’t need to move many or any PUs at this time, especially since we have no idea how this will affect people’s plans for immersion in MS.

Whelp buried on page 154 of the Pre-CIP report they have a draft map and they are in fact moving about 2/3rds of the planning units north of Rt. 50 to Swanson. So basically moving most of the higher SES units out. And splitting Arlington Forest. Probably doesn't bode well for the non-immersion kids.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/06/Pre-CIP-Report-2024-2033-Finalv2.pdf

This is freaking terrible. They’re splitting up a bunch of neighborhoods and even taking the walk zone to move the program in? Or is it to “fill” the N MS more? Damn it, Kenmore has to take it on the chin for others with all those extra buses and making their disadvantaged population even more so? F*** this! Leave the current Kenmore boundary alone and move Immersion to one of the schools with space.

Would it really kill the program to move it to WMS? That seems like the obvious solution. Move Montessori there too while they are at it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Is this good or bad for Kenmore (for the non-immersion crowd)?


I think it’s a non-issue as long as it doesn’t mean they take a lot of the higher SES planning units out of the Kenmore boundary to make room for the program. I think they shouldn’t redo the Kenmore boundary by much, unless and until the new location proves itself as more desirable, necessitating more seats. I remember when they talked about moving immersion previously, and they didn’t think it required a simultaneous boundary tweak. Kenmore is still below capacity, so seems like they shouldn’t need to move many or any PUs at this time, especially since we have no idea how this will affect people’s plans for immersion in MS.

Whelp buried on page 154 of the Pre-CIP report they have a draft map and they are in fact moving about 2/3rds of the planning units north of Rt. 50 to Swanson. So basically moving most of the higher SES units out. And splitting Arlington Forest. Probably doesn't bode well for the non-immersion kids.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/06/Pre-CIP-Report-2024-2033-Finalv2.pdf

This is freaking terrible. They’re splitting up a bunch of neighborhoods and even taking the walk zone to move the program in? Or is it to “fill” the N MS more? Damn it, Kenmore has to take it on the chin for others with all those extra buses and making their disadvantaged population even more so? F*** this! Leave the current Kenmore boundary alone and move Immersion to one of the schools with space.

Would it really kill the program to move it to WMS? That seems like the obvious solution. Move Montessori there too while they are at it.

I don’t see why it would. And maybe there’d be a smidge more diversity, too. It’s an option, not a right. If people will travel to Gunston, I don’t see why they wouldn’t travel to WMS. And it would stop some of these large cascading boundary changes, or make them less drastic. But it’s too easy a solution. Same as why Immersion or ATS wasn’t just moved rather instead of sending all McKinley to Cardinal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Is this good or bad for Kenmore (for the non-immersion crowd)?


I think it’s a non-issue as long as it doesn’t mean they take a lot of the higher SES planning units out of the Kenmore boundary to make room for the program. I think they shouldn’t redo the Kenmore boundary by much, unless and until the new location proves itself as more desirable, necessitating more seats. I remember when they talked about moving immersion previously, and they didn’t think it required a simultaneous boundary tweak. Kenmore is still below capacity, so seems like they shouldn’t need to move many or any PUs at this time, especially since we have no idea how this will affect people’s plans for immersion in MS.

Whelp buried on page 154 of the Pre-CIP report they have a draft map and they are in fact moving about 2/3rds of the planning units north of Rt. 50 to Swanson. So basically moving most of the higher SES units out. And splitting Arlington Forest. Probably doesn't bode well for the non-immersion kids.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/06/Pre-CIP-Report-2024-2033-Finalv2.pdf

This is freaking terrible. They’re splitting up a bunch of neighborhoods and even taking the walk zone to move the program in? Or is it to “fill” the N MS more? Damn it, Kenmore has to take it on the chin for others with all those extra buses and making their disadvantaged population even more so? F*** this! Leave the current Kenmore boundary alone and move Immersion to one of the schools with space.

Sorry, with one exception to the current KMS boundary: move the APAH PUs on Wilson that are in the walk zone to Swanson to Swanson instead of busing them to Kenmore. Leave everyone else at Kenmore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Is this good or bad for Kenmore (for the non-immersion crowd)?


I think it’s a non-issue as long as it doesn’t mean they take a lot of the higher SES planning units out of the Kenmore boundary to make room for the program. I think they shouldn’t redo the Kenmore boundary by much, unless and until the new location proves itself as more desirable, necessitating more seats. I remember when they talked about moving immersion previously, and they didn’t think it required a simultaneous boundary tweak. Kenmore is still below capacity, so seems like they shouldn’t need to move many or any PUs at this time, especially since we have no idea how this will affect people’s plans for immersion in MS.

Whelp buried on page 154 of the Pre-CIP report they have a draft map and they are in fact moving about 2/3rds of the planning units north of Rt. 50 to Swanson. So basically moving most of the higher SES units out. And splitting Arlington Forest. Probably doesn't bode well for the non-immersion kids.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/06/Pre-CIP-Report-2024-2033-Finalv2.pdf

This is freaking terrible. They’re splitting up a bunch of neighborhoods and even taking the walk zone to move the program in? Or is it to “fill” the N MS more? Damn it, Kenmore has to take it on the chin for others with all those extra buses and making their disadvantaged population even more so? F*** this! Leave the current Kenmore boundary alone and move Immersion to one of the schools with space.

Would it really kill the program to move it to WMS? That seems like the obvious solution. Move Montessori there too while they are at it.

I don’t see why it would. And maybe there’d be a smidge more diversity, too. It’s an option, not a right. If people will travel to Gunston, I don’t see why they wouldn’t travel to WMS. And it would stop some of these large cascading boundary changes, or make them less drastic. But it’s too easy a solution. Same as why Immersion or ATS wasn’t just moved rather instead of sending all McKinley to Cardinal.

Good point on adding more diversity to WMS, that school is lily white and could use it. Also, if Kenmore couldn't handle more buses traffic back when they considered it for a HS site, how could it take the added traffic that the immersion program will bring.

Put immersion and montessori and WMS, and that may take care of the numbers altogether, or at least it will minimize the balancing/rezoning needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Is this good or bad for Kenmore (for the non-immersion crowd)?


I think it’s a non-issue as long as it doesn’t mean they take a lot of the higher SES planning units out of the Kenmore boundary to make room for the program. I think they shouldn’t redo the Kenmore boundary by much, unless and until the new location proves itself as more desirable, necessitating more seats. I remember when they talked about moving immersion previously, and they didn’t think it required a simultaneous boundary tweak. Kenmore is still below capacity, so seems like they shouldn’t need to move many or any PUs at this time, especially since we have no idea how this will affect people’s plans for immersion in MS.

Whelp buried on page 154 of the Pre-CIP report they have a draft map and they are in fact moving about 2/3rds of the planning units north of Rt. 50 to Swanson. So basically moving most of the higher SES units out. And splitting Arlington Forest. Probably doesn't bode well for the non-immersion kids.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/06/Pre-CIP-Report-2024-2033-Finalv2.pdf

This is freaking terrible. They’re splitting up a bunch of neighborhoods and even taking the walk zone to move the program in? Or is it to “fill” the N MS more? Damn it, Kenmore has to take it on the chin for others with all those extra buses and making their disadvantaged population even more so? F*** this! Leave the current Kenmore boundary alone and move Immersion to one of the schools with space.

Would it really kill the program to move it to WMS? That seems like the obvious solution. Move Montessori there too while they are at it.

I don’t see why it would. And maybe there’d be a smidge more diversity, too. It’s an option, not a right. If people will travel to Gunston, I don’t see why they wouldn’t travel to WMS. And it would stop some of these large cascading boundary changes, or make them less drastic. But it’s too easy a solution. Same as why Immersion or ATS wasn’t just moved rather instead of sending all McKinley to Cardinal.

Good point on adding more diversity to WMS, that school is lily white and could use it. Also, if Kenmore couldn't handle more buses traffic back when they considered it for a HS site, how could it take the added traffic that the immersion program will bring.

Put immersion and montessori and WMS, and that may take care of the numbers altogether, or at least it will minimize the balancing/rezoning needed.

NP, not Immersion. But I do understand how a program gets severely harmed if you move it too far from its population. In immersion's case, they need to keep half the population Spanish native and those folks don't live near WMS and can't get there easily. Also, I know from a transportation viewpoint they like to keep options as centrallly located in county because in the end it really doesn't help cap the costs and need for busses.
Finally I have to say, someone here snarked about when will APS stop favoring options over neighborhood schools, or something like that. It's a risible comment and blatantly far from the truth - options are the red headed stepchildren in APS planning. The system will build an entirely unneeded new Neighborhood ES (Cardinal) but move the Arlington Community HS program around a half-dozen times or shove Montessori into maybe the most dilipated structure (Henry), which was so bad APS built a new ES for that community (Fleet). Immersion has a right to equal treatment under APS, because there is demand for it, and it should not get something lesser because local neighborhoods want to sacrifice it for their parochial interests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Is this good or bad for Kenmore (for the non-immersion crowd)?


I think it’s a non-issue as long as it doesn’t mean they take a lot of the higher SES planning units out of the Kenmore boundary to make room for the program. I think they shouldn’t redo the Kenmore boundary by much, unless and until the new location proves itself as more desirable, necessitating more seats. I remember when they talked about moving immersion previously, and they didn’t think it required a simultaneous boundary tweak. Kenmore is still below capacity, so seems like they shouldn’t need to move many or any PUs at this time, especially since we have no idea how this will affect people’s plans for immersion in MS.

Whelp buried on page 154 of the Pre-CIP report they have a draft map and they are in fact moving about 2/3rds of the planning units north of Rt. 50 to Swanson. So basically moving most of the higher SES units out. And splitting Arlington Forest. Probably doesn't bode well for the non-immersion kids.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/06/Pre-CIP-Report-2024-2033-Finalv2.pdf

This is freaking terrible. They’re splitting up a bunch of neighborhoods and even taking the walk zone to move the program in? Or is it to “fill” the N MS more? Damn it, Kenmore has to take it on the chin for others with all those extra buses and making their disadvantaged population even more so? F*** this! Leave the current Kenmore boundary alone and move Immersion to one of the schools with space.

Would it really kill the program to move it to WMS? That seems like the obvious solution. Move Montessori there too while they are at it.

I don’t see why it would. And maybe there’d be a smidge more diversity, too. It’s an option, not a right. If people will travel to Gunston, I don’t see why they wouldn’t travel to WMS. And it would stop some of these large cascading boundary changes, or make them less drastic. But it’s too easy a solution. Same as why Immersion or ATS wasn’t just moved rather instead of sending all McKinley to Cardinal.

It changes which people are willing to pursue the program. It's mostly the farther northern parents not willing to travel to Gunston. Move it to WMS and it will be the farther southern parents and the Latino parents who believe their children will not be "comfortable" at a far wealthier and almost all-white middle school in north Arlington. You'll get more white north Arlington families willing to continue from elementary and lose south Arlington and the native Spanish speaking families the program depends on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Is this good or bad for Kenmore (for the non-immersion crowd)?


I think it’s a non-issue as long as it doesn’t mean they take a lot of the higher SES planning units out of the Kenmore boundary to make room for the program. I think they shouldn’t redo the Kenmore boundary by much, unless and until the new location proves itself as more desirable, necessitating more seats. I remember when they talked about moving immersion previously, and they didn’t think it required a simultaneous boundary tweak. Kenmore is still below capacity, so seems like they shouldn’t need to move many or any PUs at this time, especially since we have no idea how this will affect people’s plans for immersion in MS.

Whelp buried on page 154 of the Pre-CIP report they have a draft map and they are in fact moving about 2/3rds of the planning units north of Rt. 50 to Swanson. So basically moving most of the higher SES units out. And splitting Arlington Forest. Probably doesn't bode well for the non-immersion kids.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/06/Pre-CIP-Report-2024-2033-Finalv2.pdf

This is freaking terrible. They’re splitting up a bunch of neighborhoods and even taking the walk zone to move the program in? Or is it to “fill” the N MS more? Damn it, Kenmore has to take it on the chin for others with all those extra buses and making their disadvantaged population even more so? F*** this! Leave the current Kenmore boundary alone and move Immersion to one of the schools with space.

Would it really kill the program to move it to WMS? That seems like the obvious solution. Move Montessori there too while they are at it.

I don’t see why it would. And maybe there’d be a smidge more diversity, too. It’s an option, not a right. If people will travel to Gunston, I don’t see why they wouldn’t travel to WMS. And it would stop some of these large cascading boundary changes, or make them less drastic. But it’s too easy a solution. Same as why Immersion or ATS wasn’t just moved rather instead of sending all McKinley to Cardinal.

Good point on adding more diversity to WMS, that school is lily white and could use it. Also, if Kenmore couldn't handle more buses traffic back when they considered it for a HS site, how could it take the added traffic that the immersion program will bring.

Put immersion and montessori and WMS, and that may take care of the numbers altogether, or at least it will minimize the balancing/rezoning needed.

NP, not Immersion. But I do understand how a program gets severely harmed if you move it too far from its population. In immersion's case, they need to keep half the population Spanish native and those folks don't live near WMS and can't get there easily. Also, I know from a transportation viewpoint they like to keep options as centrallly located in county because in the end it really doesn't help cap the costs and need for busses.
Finally I have to say, someone here snarked about when will APS stop favoring options over neighborhood schools, or something like that. It's a risible comment and blatantly far from the truth - options are the red headed stepchildren in APS planning. The system will build an entirely unneeded new Neighborhood ES (Cardinal) but move the Arlington Community HS program around a half-dozen times or shove Montessori into maybe the most dilipated structure (Henry), which was so bad APS built a new ES for that community (Fleet). Immersion has a right to equal treatment under APS, because there is demand for it, and it should not get something lesser because local neighborhoods want to sacrifice it for their parochial interests.

Hmm...you may not be immersion but you sound like Montessori. Fleet wasn't built because Henry was dilapidated. They built Fleet because Oakridge and Henry and Abingdon were overcrowded and projections were making Oakridge ludicrously over-overcrowded. Montessori WANTED out of Drew and the DREW kids NEEDED Montessori out. Montessori wanted that new school to be built for them and they still want a new school built for them.

Secondly and similarly, Cardinal was needed for capacity. Tuckahoe and McKinley had their days of severe overcrowding and McKinley got an addition. The new school was supposed to relocate an option program but (1) the neighborhood insisted it be neighborhood, of course and no surprise; and (2) Reid Goldstein stupidly - and without authority - promised them it would be.

I would hardly call option programs red-headed (or any other hair color) step-children. If they were, they'd all be shoved into the least-favored or suited locations and would be on the budget chopping block every year. If ATS is an ill-treated stepchild, put me in that family - please!