Immersion program may leave gunston

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is APS using this as a way to hurry along the attrition rate to remove the immersion program at the middle school age?

No- this proposal came 'out' of the immersion community. Go back in time to 2017 or so- it was along the time that they changed the way the admissions went for the immersion program- advocates formed a group that was supposed to be like the Montessori Action Committee- it was intended to advocate for immersion and strengthening the immersion program, and reducing the dropout rate. The parent community strongly advocated at that time to move the MS program to Kenmore, saying that the major reason people left immersion was distance to Gunston. The School Board was considering it- but the teachers objected, and the idea died. I think the committee died too- it kind of got sidelined by the moving Key wildfires.

I have no basis for my opinion which is: distance does have an impact on the decision to continue in immersion into middle school; however, the real or perceived difference in quality of middle schools likely has a bigger impact. The distance is an easy excuse for more northern Arlington families to not even contend with the decision. If immersion were truly that important to them, more of them would continue on despite the distance.

That said, moving the program closer to a location more accessible SHOULD result in more families (from the north) remaining in the program. If it does not, then the "cover" of "distance" is blown and it's really more about the actual middle schools. It will also be interesting to see if families in the SE part of the County - close to Gunston - show a drop in rentention to middle school because of the distance to Kenmore. I doubt quality of the schools would be the issue, since Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston are pretty similar.

This might be wildly inaccurate and unfair, but as the parent of an early elementary child, my perception of the quality of Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston is not similar at all. At all. Immersion at Gunston has a good reputation but the middle school in general does not. The main thing I hear is that it’s overcrowded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is APS using this as a way to hurry along the attrition rate to remove the immersion program at the middle school age?

No- this proposal came 'out' of the immersion community. Go back in time to 2017 or so- it was along the time that they changed the way the admissions went for the immersion program- advocates formed a group that was supposed to be like the Montessori Action Committee- it was intended to advocate for immersion and strengthening the immersion program, and reducing the dropout rate. The parent community strongly advocated at that time to move the MS program to Kenmore, saying that the major reason people left immersion was distance to Gunston. The School Board was considering it- but the teachers objected, and the idea died. I think the committee died too- it kind of got sidelined by the moving Key wildfires.

I have no basis for my opinion which is: distance does have an impact on the decision to continue in immersion into middle school; however, the real or perceived difference in quality of middle schools likely has a bigger impact. The distance is an easy excuse for more northern Arlington families to not even contend with the decision. If immersion were truly that important to them, more of them would continue on despite the distance.

That said, moving the program closer to a location more accessible SHOULD result in more families (from the north) remaining in the program. If it does not, then the "cover" of "distance" is blown and it's really more about the actual middle schools. It will also be interesting to see if families in the SE part of the County - close to Gunston - show a drop in rentention to middle school because of the distance to Kenmore. I doubt quality of the schools would be the issue, since Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston are pretty similar.

This might be wildly inaccurate and unfair, but as the parent of an early elementary child, my perception of the quality of Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston is not similar at all. At all. Immersion at Gunston has a good reputation but the middle school in general does not. The main thing I hear is that it’s overcrowded.

Which one of the three do you hear the most positive about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is APS using this as a way to hurry along the attrition rate to remove the immersion program at the middle school age?

No- this proposal came 'out' of the immersion community. Go back in time to 2017 or so- it was along the time that they changed the way the admissions went for the immersion program- advocates formed a group that was supposed to be like the Montessori Action Committee- it was intended to advocate for immersion and strengthening the immersion program, and reducing the dropout rate. The parent community strongly advocated at that time to move the MS program to Kenmore, saying that the major reason people left immersion was distance to Gunston. The School Board was considering it- but the teachers objected, and the idea died. I think the committee died too- it kind of got sidelined by the moving Key wildfires.

I have no basis for my opinion which is: distance does have an impact on the decision to continue in immersion into middle school; however, the real or perceived difference in quality of middle schools likely has a bigger impact. The distance is an easy excuse for more northern Arlington families to not even contend with the decision. If immersion were truly that important to them, more of them would continue on despite the distance.

That said, moving the program closer to a location more accessible SHOULD result in more families (from the north) remaining in the program. If it does not, then the "cover" of "distance" is blown and it's really more about the actual middle schools. It will also be interesting to see if families in the SE part of the County - close to Gunston - show a drop in rentention to middle school because of the distance to Kenmore. I doubt quality of the schools would be the issue, since Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston are pretty similar.

This might be wildly inaccurate and unfair, but as the parent of an early elementary child, my perception of the quality of Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston is not similar at all. At all. Immersion at Gunston has a good reputation but the middle school in general does not. The main thing I hear is that it’s overcrowded.

Which one of the three do you hear the most positive about?

I hear that Kenmore has a wonderful arts program but a lot of fights. But the kids we know who go there all seem to find their people. I hear that Jefferson has a dark, old building but a nice community and, again, the kids we know are happy. Gunston parents we know say things like, “it’s so very overcrowded, but you know, it’s fine for middle school. Middle school is always hard.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is APS using this as a way to hurry along the attrition rate to remove the immersion program at the middle school age?

No- this proposal came 'out' of the immersion community. Go back in time to 2017 or so- it was along the time that they changed the way the admissions went for the immersion program- advocates formed a group that was supposed to be like the Montessori Action Committee- it was intended to advocate for immersion and strengthening the immersion program, and reducing the dropout rate. The parent community strongly advocated at that time to move the MS program to Kenmore, saying that the major reason people left immersion was distance to Gunston. The School Board was considering it- but the teachers objected, and the idea died. I think the committee died too- it kind of got sidelined by the moving Key wildfires.

I have no basis for my opinion which is: distance does have an impact on the decision to continue in immersion into middle school; however, the real or perceived difference in quality of middle schools likely has a bigger impact. The distance is an easy excuse for more northern Arlington families to not even contend with the decision. If immersion were truly that important to them, more of them would continue on despite the distance.

That said, moving the program closer to a location more accessible SHOULD result in more families (from the north) remaining in the program. If it does not, then the "cover" of "distance" is blown and it's really more about the actual middle schools. It will also be interesting to see if families in the SE part of the County - close to Gunston - show a drop in rentention to middle school because of the distance to Kenmore. I doubt quality of the schools would be the issue, since Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston are pretty similar.

This might be wildly inaccurate and unfair, but as the parent of an early elementary child, my perception of the quality of Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston is not similar at all. At all. Immersion at Gunston has a good reputation but the middle school in general does not. The main thing I hear is that it’s overcrowded.

Which one of the three do you hear the most positive about?

I hear that Kenmore has a wonderful arts program but a lot of fights. But the kids we know who go there all seem to find their people. I hear that Jefferson has a dark, old building but a nice community and, again, the kids we know are happy. Gunston parents we know say things like, “it’s so very overcrowded, but you know, it’s fine for middle school. Middle school is always hard.”

This is literally what every Gunston parent I’ve ever spoken to says about that school. Always “middle school is always hard”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is APS using this as a way to hurry along the attrition rate to remove the immersion program at the middle school age?

No- this proposal came 'out' of the immersion community. Go back in time to 2017 or so- it was along the time that they changed the way the admissions went for the immersion program- advocates formed a group that was supposed to be like the Montessori Action Committee- it was intended to advocate for immersion and strengthening the immersion program, and reducing the dropout rate. The parent community strongly advocated at that time to move the MS program to Kenmore, saying that the major reason people left immersion was distance to Gunston. The School Board was considering it- but the teachers objected, and the idea died. I think the committee died too- it kind of got sidelined by the moving Key wildfires.

I have no basis for my opinion which is: distance does have an impact on the decision to continue in immersion into middle school; however, the real or perceived difference in quality of middle schools likely has a bigger impact. The distance is an easy excuse for more northern Arlington families to not even contend with the decision. If immersion were truly that important to them, more of them would continue on despite the distance.

That said, moving the program closer to a location more accessible SHOULD result in more families (from the north) remaining in the program. If it does not, then the "cover" of "distance" is blown and it's really more about the actual middle schools. It will also be interesting to see if families in the SE part of the County - close to Gunston - show a drop in rentention to middle school because of the distance to Kenmore. I doubt quality of the schools would be the issue, since Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston are pretty similar.

yeah- when those discussions were going on I was a bright eyed optimistic immersion kindergarten parent. Since then I have become much more cynical and realistic about immersion and many other things. Some of it is school quality- the other MASSIVE part of this is that immersion is really not a good fit for a bunch of kids. Another huge factor is the number of parents who choose immersion b/c something about the location of elementary school worked for them (or were avoiding an undesirable elementary school)- but are not really at all committed to it.

It's not even as simple as whether immersion is a good fit. I have a kid who loves learning Spanish and who is quite good at it, but who may also want IB. It's not crazy for her to choose for her to continue Spanish outside of APS and to focus on other education priorities after elementary. That doesn't discount the Spanish she's already learned. It also doesn't mean that she wouldn't stick with immersion if she could do it with IB. Life is full of choices.

Personally I'd love if immersion middle school moved to a MS that tracked to WL and immersion HS moved to WL (which is projected to have room). That would give my kid the most options and it's centrally located. But it's obviously not up to me.

I'm glad it's not up to you. I don't think moving HS immersion to WL is a good idea. That is clearly a plan that somehow benefits you, and only by giving your kid the most options? That's the basis for this idea? It's a program. It tracks to wherever the program is. It has nothing to do with what school it's located in; so I don't understand why that's even part of your thinking. Besides, part of Kenmore tracks to Wakefield, anyway. You would just prefer taking it away from Wakefield?

WL already is and will be the largest high school. It already has the IB program. Why should it also house the immersion program (other than to give your kid and others at WL "the most options" - which I would argue your WL child already has, btw)?

APS already plans to move kids out of Wakefield and into WL in the next HS boundary change to balance enrollment and solve overcrowding at Wakefield. Kids are getting moved. We don't know which kids yet.

I don't know what you mean by the "basis of this idea." I was spitballing what would make an easy decision for our family, as then immersion would be at our zoned high school. I have no idea what APS is thinking other than that both Gunston and Wakefield are overcrowded.

Also, the immersion program isn't fully isolated. Immersion kids are mixed with other kids from their middle school. So yes, I'd like my middle schooler to move to a high school with her MS friends and not be tracked to a totally different HS than the rest of the MS just because she's in immersion. So it does matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is APS using this as a way to hurry along the attrition rate to remove the immersion program at the middle school age?

No- this proposal came 'out' of the immersion community. Go back in time to 2017 or so- it was along the time that they changed the way the admissions went for the immersion program- advocates formed a group that was supposed to be like the Montessori Action Committee- it was intended to advocate for immersion and strengthening the immersion program, and reducing the dropout rate. The parent community strongly advocated at that time to move the MS program to Kenmore, saying that the major reason people left immersion was distance to Gunston. The School Board was considering it- but the teachers objected, and the idea died. I think the committee died too- it kind of got sidelined by the moving Key wildfires.

I have no basis for my opinion which is: distance does have an impact on the decision to continue in immersion into middle school; however, the real or perceived difference in quality of middle schools likely has a bigger impact. The distance is an easy excuse for more northern Arlington families to not even contend with the decision. If immersion were truly that important to them, more of them would continue on despite the distance.

That said, moving the program closer to a location more accessible SHOULD result in more families (from the north) remaining in the program. If it does not, then the "cover" of "distance" is blown and it's really more about the actual middle schools. It will also be interesting to see if families in the SE part of the County - close to Gunston - show a drop in rentention to middle school because of the distance to Kenmore. I doubt quality of the schools would be the issue, since Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston are pretty similar.

yeah- when those discussions were going on I was a bright eyed optimistic immersion kindergarten parent. Since then I have become much more cynical and realistic about immersion and many other things. Some of it is school quality- the other MASSIVE part of this is that immersion is really not a good fit for a bunch of kids. Another huge factor is the number of parents who choose immersion b/c something about the location of elementary school worked for them (or were avoiding an undesirable elementary school)- but are not really at all committed to it.

It's not even as simple as whether immersion is a good fit. I have a kid who loves learning Spanish and who is quite good at it, but who may also want IB. It's not crazy for her to choose for her to continue Spanish outside of APS and to focus on other education priorities after elementary. That doesn't discount the Spanish she's already learned. It also doesn't mean that she wouldn't stick with immersion if she could do it with IB. Life is full of choices.

Personally I'd love if immersion middle school moved to a MS that tracked to WL and immersion HS moved to WL (which is projected to have room). That would give my kid the most options and it's centrally located. But it's obviously not up to me.

I'm glad it's not up to you. I don't think moving HS immersion to WL is a good idea. That is clearly a plan that somehow benefits you, and only by giving your kid the most options? That's the basis for this idea? It's a program. It tracks to wherever the program is. It has nothing to do with what school it's located in; so I don't understand why that's even part of your thinking. Besides, part of Kenmore tracks to Wakefield, anyway. You would just prefer taking it away from Wakefield?

WL already is and will be the largest high school. It already has the IB program. Why should it also house the immersion program (other than to give your kid and others at WL "the most options" - which I would argue your WL child already has, btw)?

APS already plans to move kids out of Wakefield and into WL in the next HS boundary change to balance enrollment and solve overcrowding at Wakefield. Kids are getting moved. We don't know which kids yet.

I don't know what you mean by the "basis of this idea." I was spitballing what would make an easy decision for our family, as then immersion would be at our zoned high school. I have no idea what APS is thinking other than that both Gunston and Wakefield are overcrowded.

Also, the immersion program isn't fully isolated. Immersion kids are mixed with other kids from their middle school. So yes, I'd like my middle schooler to move to a high school with her MS friends and not be tracked to a totally different HS than the rest of the MS just because she's in immersion. So it does matter.

Well, that's all fine for you. But other kids would probably like the same. Regardless, even tracking to a different HS, immersion students aren't going in isolation to a different hs. They'll have their immersion cohorts and likely be in some classes together; whereas other middle schools split off and there are kids with maybe only one or two friends tracking to hs and never even see them again because they don't end up in any classes or even lunch together. Moving a Kenmore ms immersion to WL for hs merely puts other kids in what would be your situation instead of your kid. All of Kenmore does not go to WL.

[Anonymous]

Hope everyone takes a chill pill. This announcement was a “shot across the bow” meant to indicate discussion on boundaries are underway. Review the boundary process here: https://www.apsva.us/engage/2023-ms-boundaries/

If you feel that your situation warrants consideration, email:
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel a bit blindsided by this. There is already a recommendation before any community engagement? This should be part of any MS boundary process. The Montessori program is also at Gunston. I share the concerns already voiced about how well Gunston has integrated the immersion program into the school. Montessori is a stand alone program so if they need more space it would make more sense to me for that one to move.

Look at the numbers of students. Montessori is so small it wouldn't help Gunston crowding much to move it.

[Anonymous]

If immersion switches to Kenmore, I think it is going to be hard to justify the hub busses to Gunston just for Montessori.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is APS using this as a way to hurry along the attrition rate to remove the immersion program at the middle school age?

No- this proposal came 'out' of the immersion community. Go back in time to 2017 or so- it was along the time that they changed the way the admissions went for the immersion program- advocates formed a group that was supposed to be like the Montessori Action Committee- it was intended to advocate for immersion and strengthening the immersion program, and reducing the dropout rate. The parent community strongly advocated at that time to move the MS program to Kenmore, saying that the major reason people left immersion was distance to Gunston. The School Board was considering it- but the teachers objected, and the idea died. I think the committee died too- it kind of got sidelined by the moving Key wildfires.

I have no basis for my opinion which is: distance does have an impact on the decision to continue in immersion into middle school; however, the real or perceived difference in quality of middle schools likely has a bigger impact. The distance is an easy excuse for more northern Arlington families to not even contend with the decision. If immersion were truly that important to them, more of them would continue on despite the distance.

That said, moving the program closer to a location more accessible SHOULD result in more families (from the north) remaining in the program. If it does not, then the "cover" of "distance" is blown and it's really more about the actual middle schools. It will also be interesting to see if families in the SE part of the County - close to Gunston - show a drop in rentention to middle school because of the distance to Kenmore. I doubt quality of the schools would be the issue, since Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston are pretty similar.

This might be wildly inaccurate and unfair, but as the parent of an early elementary child, my perception of the quality of Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston is not similar at all. At all. Immersion at Gunston has a good reputation but the middle school in general does not. The main thing I hear is that it’s overcrowded.

Which one of the three do you hear the most positive about?

I hear that Kenmore has a wonderful arts program but a lot of fights. But the kids we know who go there all seem to find their people. I hear that Jefferson has a dark, old building but a nice community and, again, the kids we know are happy. Gunston parents we know say things like, “it’s so very overcrowded, but you know, it’s fine for middle school. Middle school is always hard.”

This is literally what every Gunston parent I’ve ever spoken to says about that school. Always “middle school is always hard”

It’s some form of self-soothing to justify the stupid choice they made, perhaps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is APS using this as a way to hurry along the attrition rate to remove the immersion program at the middle school age?

No- this proposal came 'out' of the immersion community. Go back in time to 2017 or so- it was along the time that they changed the way the admissions went for the immersion program- advocates formed a group that was supposed to be like the Montessori Action Committee- it was intended to advocate for immersion and strengthening the immersion program, and reducing the dropout rate. The parent community strongly advocated at that time to move the MS program to Kenmore, saying that the major reason people left immersion was distance to Gunston. The School Board was considering it- but the teachers objected, and the idea died. I think the committee died too- it kind of got sidelined by the moving Key wildfires.

I have no basis for my opinion which is: distance does have an impact on the decision to continue in immersion into middle school; however, the real or perceived difference in quality of middle schools likely has a bigger impact. The distance is an easy excuse for more northern Arlington families to not even contend with the decision. If immersion were truly that important to them, more of them would continue on despite the distance.

That said, moving the program closer to a location more accessible SHOULD result in more families (from the north) remaining in the program. If it does not, then the "cover" of "distance" is blown and it's really more about the actual middle schools. It will also be interesting to see if families in the SE part of the County - close to Gunston - show a drop in rentention to middle school because of the distance to Kenmore. I doubt quality of the schools would be the issue, since Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston are pretty similar.

This might be wildly inaccurate and unfair, but as the parent of an early elementary child, my perception of the quality of Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston is not similar at all. At all. Immersion at Gunston has a good reputation but the middle school in general does not. The main thing I hear is that it’s overcrowded.

Which one of the three do you hear the most positive about?

I hear that Kenmore has a wonderful arts program but a lot of fights. But the kids we know who go there all seem to find their people. I hear that Jefferson has a dark, old building but a nice community and, again, the kids we know are happy. Gunston parents we know say things like, “it’s so very overcrowded, but you know, it’s fine for middle school. Middle school is always hard.”

This is literally what every Gunston parent I’ve ever spoken to says about that school. Always “middle school is always hard”

It’s some form of self-soothing to justify the stupid choice they made, perhaps.

Choice? To live where they can find a place they can afford? Yeah, that is a stupid choice.

[Anonymous]

Why not have Immersion programs at two middle schools like they have two elementary schools?

This would increase access for those people for whom Gunston is too far away to stick with it. And moving half from Gunston to a different middle would relieve overcrowding.

[Anonymous]

Why not move Immersion to way under capacity Williamsburg? Any other boundary change nukes walk zones and escalates busing costs and bus ride times for almost all schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not move Immersion to way under capacity Williamsburg? Any other boundary change nukes walk zones and escalates busing costs and bus ride times for almost all schools.

The transportation study said that moving immersion to Williamsburg would have negative impacts on transportation, so maybe that is why? I think the choices are between TJ and Kenmore. But also Williamsburg doesn't have very many spanish speaking families surrounding it and that is one of the reasons for the move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not have Immersion programs at two middle schools like they have two elementary schools?

This would increase access for those people for whom Gunston is too far away to stick with it. And moving half from Gunston to a different middle would relieve overcrowding.

They don't currently have the staff for this and finding staff that is capable of teaching in Spanish is not the easiest.