Immersion program may leave gunston

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:my family left immersion after last year and I wish we would have done it sooner. I hope they figure out the plan for things soon because the program is suffering.


I'm the IPP poster. Part of the issue is only a few of the options have a genuine pedagogy attached, e.g., HB and Montessori. With those you can point to key parameters, identify pathways, distinguish individual progress, and adhere to them. Other options like ATS or Immersion have been more of a concept that were kind of thrown up on the chalkboard to see what sticks in a time of need of moving seats around. With Immersion, a key parameter became a demographic balance that is out of the control of a school system - that's tough and means the program is always expending energy on it. There are other challenges, like finding dual language certified teachers in subjects, for instance, where APS does not really get help from outside world. By contrast in Montessori, at least there's a whole ecosystem of training and certifying educators.


Well isn't that the whole point of the DLI workgroup/task force? I feel like folks haven't paid any attention to this so they haven't seen all the work that has been going into it!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So the move from Gunston to Kenmore was one of the ideas that came out of the DLI meetings. I think its weird that APS didn't mention this, but whatever. One of the reasons for moving to Kenmore was because kids were having a bus ride of an hour to get to Gunston. Which I get that suck. However, there hasn't been any research done on bus trip length to Kenmore. IMO this seems like the easiest thing to figure out. Get a bus and drive the route. I would love to know if the move really improves the ride or if it just shortens for some and lengthens for others.


Of course this will happen. How could it logically not become shorter for some people and maybe longer for others? It obviously puts Gunston immersion walkers on a bus. It makes immersion students in the walk zone of Kenmore walkers. It's a shorter ride for the western Columbia Pike neighborhoods and probably about the same for other neighborhoods. It's also shorter for 22207 and other far NE neighborhoods....maybe a few more elementary kids from those neighborhoods will choose to continue at Kenmore, whereas they don't due to the distance to Gunston.


Right but I meant could it now be 45 Mims ride of those in the gunston walk zone. It van easily take me 25 mins to drive to kenmore without being on the bus. Just curious if now kids close to Gunston will have very long rides. I think it's fair to ask for bus ride lengths if that is one of the considerations. Especially since it is easy enough to figure out


Where in Arlington is a 25 minute drive to Kenmore?
Anonymous
Have you ever been in the Glenvarlyn area where kenmore is located? Traffic patterns are horrible and there’s more than one school close by. It might not take 25 minutes to get there but once you’re there it could be half an hour. That area is the worst!

We live in the neighborhood and attend Kenmore and have been fighting Arlington about traffic and how it’s set up for a couple years.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:my family left immersion after last year and I wish we would have done it sooner. I hope they figure out the plan for things soon because the program is suffering.


I'm the IPP poster. Part of the issue is only a few of the options have a genuine pedagogy attached, e.g., HB and Montessori. With those you can point to key parameters, identify pathways, distinguish individual progress, and adhere to them. Other options like ATS or Immersion have been more of a concept that were kind of thrown up on the chalkboard to see what sticks in a time of need of moving seats around. With Immersion, a key parameter became a demographic balance that is out of the control of a school system - that's tough and means the program is always expending energy on it. There are other challenges, like finding dual language certified teachers in subjects, for instance, where APS does not really get help from outside world. By contrast in Montessori, at least there's a whole ecosystem of training and certifying educators.


Hmm. Just what is HB's clear distinct pedagogy, and what are its specific key parameters, pathways, and measures of individual progress? Please don't tell me it's students taking responsibility for themselves or small classes and a small community. Those do not make a distinct pedagogy.

Montessori has a philosophy, yes. But show me the data that clearly demonstrate its notable impacts that could not otherwise be achieved through other means.

The idea to begin immersion might have started with the premise of being a way to de-segregate some students; but you can't honestly proclaim it does not have a unique focus? One that is of obvious benefit in our local area as well as a nation overall with a high % of Spanish-speaking immigrants? One that has some advantages for Spanish speaking English language learners.

ATS? I'm on board with that one. Except that it actually is distinguishable from the other neighborhood schools by its expectations, discipline, and results. However, that should not be an option program, it should be the standard.

You are so clearly Montessori. Justifying Montessori's "ecosystem of training and certifying educators" but dissing immersion's challenges to find dual language certified teachers without "help from the outside world."

I'm not an option parent of any sort. But I would support an immersion program over Montessori any day of the week. The challenges have an far more obvious pay-off than a Montessori education. The additional costs provide students with a useful distinguishing skill (bilingualism). Whereas, if I hadn't read about it, I would never in a million years have suspected or known Jeff Bezos was a Montessori product. Nothing distinguishing, aside from his ego, which some people can relate to the Arlington Montessori parents' belief that their children are more special than others and their "pedagogy" is so superior.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Have you ever been in the Glenvarlyn area where kenmore is located? Traffic patterns are horrible and there’s more than one school close by. It might not take 25 minutes to get there but once you’re there it could be half an hour. That area is the worst!

We live in the neighborhood and attend Kenmore and have been fighting Arlington about traffic and how it’s set up for a couple years.


Yes, I have. Regularly at different times of the day. Yes, I believe there are things that can be done to improve flow on Carlin Springs. But it doesn't take 25 minutes to drive there from anywhere in the County.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Is this good or bad for Kenmore (for the non-immersion crowd)?


I think it’s a non-issue as long as it doesn’t mean they take a lot of the higher SES planning units out of the Kenmore boundary to make room for the program. I think they shouldn’t redo the Kenmore boundary by much, unless and until the new location proves itself as more desirable, necessitating more seats. I remember when they talked about moving immersion previously, and they didn’t think it required a simultaneous boundary tweak. Kenmore is still below capacity, so seems like they shouldn’t need to move many or any PUs at this time, especially since we have no idea how this will affect people’s plans for immersion in MS.


Whelp buried on page 154 of the Pre-CIP report they have a draft map and they are in fact moving about 2/3rds of the planning units north of Rt. 50 to Swanson. So basically moving most of the higher SES units out. And splitting Arlington Forest. Probably doesn't bode well for the non-immersion kids.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/06/Pre-CIP-Report-2024-2033-Finalv2.pdf


This is freaking terrible. They’re splitting up a bunch of neighborhoods and even taking the walk zone to move the program in? Or is it to “fill” the N MS more? Damn it, Kenmore has to take it on the chin for others with all those extra buses and making their disadvantaged population even more so? F*** this! Leave the current Kenmore boundary alone and move Immersion to one of the schools with space.


Would it really kill the program to move it to WMS? That seems like the obvious solution. Move Montessori there too while they are at it.


I don’t see why it would. And maybe there’d be a smidge more diversity, too. It’s an option, not a right. If people will travel to Gunston, I don’t see why they wouldn’t travel to WMS. And it would stop some of these large cascading boundary changes, or make them less drastic. But it’s too easy a solution. Same as why Immersion or ATS wasn’t just moved rather instead of sending all McKinley to Cardinal.


Good point on adding more diversity to WMS, that school is lily white and could use it. Also, if Kenmore couldn't handle more buses traffic back when they considered it for a HS site, how could it take the added traffic that the immersion program will bring.

Put immersion and montessori and WMS, and that may take care of the numbers altogether, or at least it will minimize the balancing/rezoning needed.


NP, not Immersion. But I do understand how a program gets severely harmed if you move it too far from its population. In immersion's case, they need to keep half the population Spanish native and those folks don't live near WMS and can't get there easily. Also, I know from a transportation viewpoint they like to keep options as centrallly located in county because in the end it really doesn't help cap the costs and need for busses.
Finally I have to say, someone here snarked about when will APS stop favoring options over neighborhood schools, or something like that. It's a risible comment and blatantly far from the truth - options are the red headed stepchildren in APS planning. The system will build an entirely unneeded new Neighborhood ES (Cardinal) but move the Arlington Community HS program around a half-dozen times or shove Montessori into maybe the most dilipated structure (Henry), which was so bad APS built a new ES for that community (Fleet). Immersion has a right to equal treatment under APS, because there is demand for it, and it should not get something lesser because local neighborhoods want to sacrifice it for their parochial interests.


Hmm...you may not be immersion but you sound like Montessori. Fleet wasn't built because Henry was dilapidated. They built Fleet because Oakridge and Henry and Abingdon were overcrowded and projections were making Oakridge ludicrously over-overcrowded. Montessori WANTED out of Drew and the DREW kids NEEDED Montessori out. Montessori wanted that new school to be built for them and they still want a new school built for them.

Secondly and similarly, Cardinal was needed for capacity. Tuckahoe and McKinley had their days of severe overcrowding and McKinley got an addition. The new school was supposed to relocate an option program but (1) the neighborhood insisted it be neighborhood, of course and no surprise; and (2) Reid Goldstein stupidly - and without authority - promised them it would be.

I would hardly call option programs red-headed (or any other hair color) step-children. If they were, they'd all be shoved into the least-favored or suited locations and would be on the budget chopping block every year. If ATS is an ill-treated stepchild, put me in that family - please!


Totally agree Montessori would probably love a new school building, but like ATS, Immersion and everyone but HB they will never get one. Would any of the options not love a new school building? You're helping me prove my point that options are seen as second-class schools within the school system, only to receive leftovers from the neighborhoods, and never a new. They are seen as chess pieces to help solve "real" issues like seat capacity - but they are rarely valued on their own merit. Take your example of Drew - it took a desire by both sides to make the change. Also, someone else's here is asking aloud if this is the end of Immersion...nobody ever asks that of neighborhoods, so you can imagine how decades of having to defend your existence while watching other schools get built unnecessarily makes everyone in options assume the worst. I know this because I was on IPP task force years ago. It was eye opening.


Actually, Montessori finally moved out - not because both sides finally agreed - because south Arlington was facing a huge crowding problem (particularly Oakridge) and APS needed to build a new school (Fleet) to handle neighborhood program kids.

All the option programs probably won't get brand new buildings, no. But very few neighborhoods get new buildings, either. Only a few when population growth necessitating an additional school. Many neighborhood schools would love a new building, too, or at least a renovation to update it and bring it into modern times. Just like option schools. And there are far more neighborhood schools than option schools. No stepchildren here; equal wants and equally limited resources.

Montessori will be getting a new building (or essentially a new building) with the complete refurbishing and renovation and fitting-to-Montessori-specifications of the Career Center building.

ATS was supposed to get the new building that became Cardinal. That wasn't APS' fault - it was Reid Goldstein's.

If an option program is in the building with the worst conditions, it will get its proper place in the queue. But your option school (1) if it's Montessori, is already accounted for in a redevelopment plan; or (2) just might not be the most urgent facility in need of a re-do. If that's not satisfactory enough, take solace that Nottingham neighborhood is being "asked" to end. Note, APS is not proposing to close down an option program for swing space.



I don't think Fleet was the additional new ES, I think that has still not been built. Henry parents wanted a new building (just in place), and Montessori/Drew wanted to separate, so all of that came together in Fleet getting built and Montessori taking Henry. The overcrowding still exists in South Arlington. I think there is supposed to be a new ES in Crystal/ Pentagon city. That need goes as far back as South Arlington Working Group. I don't think we've seen the truly additional new ES built yet. BTW that is another reason building Cardinal as a neighborhood was so egregious. West over jumped in line over South Arlington where the real neighborhood need was and is.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Have you ever been in the Glenvarlyn area where kenmore is located? Traffic patterns are horrible and there’s more than one school close by. It might not take 25 minutes to get there but once you’re there it could be half an hour. That area is the worst!

We live in the neighborhood and attend Kenmore and have been fighting Arlington about traffic and how it’s set up for a couple years.


Yes, I have. Regularly at different times of the day. Yes, I believe there are things that can be done to improve flow on Carlin Springs. But it doesn't take 25 minutes to drive there from anywhere in the County.



There are times it takes us over 20 minutes to get home from picking up after school releases from Kenmore. Between busses, car traffic and walkers, it’s a zoo. We live off Columbia Pike so not too far. With that all said, I’m still not sure that’s a reason not to move immersion there. But it can and does take people 25 minutes when you factor in traffic.

Our oldest left immersion and our younger one is at Claremont.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Is this good or bad for Kenmore (for the non-immersion crowd)?


I think it’s a non-issue as long as it doesn’t mean they take a lot of the higher SES planning units out of the Kenmore boundary to make room for the program. I think they shouldn’t redo the Kenmore boundary by much, unless and until the new location proves itself as more desirable, necessitating more seats. I remember when they talked about moving immersion previously, and they didn’t think it required a simultaneous boundary tweak. Kenmore is still below capacity, so seems like they shouldn’t need to move many or any PUs at this time, especially since we have no idea how this will affect people’s plans for immersion in MS.


Whelp buried on page 154 of the Pre-CIP report they have a draft map and they are in fact moving about 2/3rds of the planning units north of Rt. 50 to Swanson. So basically moving most of the higher SES units out. And splitting Arlington Forest. Probably doesn't bode well for the non-immersion kids.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/06/Pre-CIP-Report-2024-2033-Finalv2.pdf


This is freaking terrible. They’re splitting up a bunch of neighborhoods and even taking the walk zone to move the program in? Or is it to “fill” the N MS more? Damn it, Kenmore has to take it on the chin for others with all those extra buses and making their disadvantaged population even more so? F*** this! Leave the current Kenmore boundary alone and move Immersion to one of the schools with space.


Would it really kill the program to move it to WMS? That seems like the obvious solution. Move Montessori there too while they are at it.


I don’t see why it would. And maybe there’d be a smidge more diversity, too. It’s an option, not a right. If people will travel to Gunston, I don’t see why they wouldn’t travel to WMS. And it would stop some of these large cascading boundary changes, or make them less drastic. But it’s too easy a solution. Same as why Immersion or ATS wasn’t just moved rather instead of sending all McKinley to Cardinal.


Good point on adding more diversity to WMS, that school is lily white and could use it. Also, if Kenmore couldn't handle more buses traffic back when they considered it for a HS site, how could it take the added traffic that the immersion program will bring.

Put immersion and montessori and WMS, and that may take care of the numbers altogether, or at least it will minimize the balancing/rezoning needed.


NP, not Immersion. But I do understand how a program gets severely harmed if you move it too far from its population. In immersion's case, they need to keep half the population Spanish native and those folks don't live near WMS and can't get there easily. Also, I know from a transportation viewpoint they like to keep options as centrallly located in county because in the end it really doesn't help cap the costs and need for busses.
Finally I have to say, someone here snarked about when will APS stop favoring options over neighborhood schools, or something like that. It's a risible comment and blatantly far from the truth - options are the red headed stepchildren in APS planning. The system will build an entirely unneeded new Neighborhood ES (Cardinal) but move the Arlington Community HS program around a half-dozen times or shove Montessori into maybe the most dilipated structure (Henry), which was so bad APS built a new ES for that community (Fleet). Immersion has a right to equal treatment under APS, because there is demand for it, and it should not get something lesser because local neighborhoods want to sacrifice it for their parochial interests.


Hmm...you may not be immersion but you sound like Montessori. Fleet wasn't built because Henry was dilapidated. They built Fleet because Oakridge and Henry and Abingdon were overcrowded and projections were making Oakridge ludicrously over-overcrowded. Montessori WANTED out of Drew and the DREW kids NEEDED Montessori out. Montessori wanted that new school to be built for them and they still want a new school built for them.

Secondly and similarly, Cardinal was needed for capacity. Tuckahoe and McKinley had their days of severe overcrowding and McKinley got an addition. The new school was supposed to relocate an option program but (1) the neighborhood insisted it be neighborhood, of course and no surprise; and (2) Reid Goldstein stupidly - and without authority - promised them it would be.

I would hardly call option programs red-headed (or any other hair color) step-children. If they were, they'd all be shoved into the least-favored or suited locations and would be on the budget chopping block every year. If ATS is an ill-treated stepchild, put me in that family - please!


Totally agree Montessori would probably love a new school building, but like ATS, Immersion and everyone but HB they will never get one. Would any of the options not love a new school building? You're helping me prove my point that options are seen as second-class schools within the school system, only to receive leftovers from the neighborhoods, and never a new. They are seen as chess pieces to help solve "real" issues like seat capacity - but they are rarely valued on their own merit. Take your example of Drew - it took a desire by both sides to make the change. Also, someone else's here is asking aloud if this is the end of Immersion...nobody ever asks that of neighborhoods, so you can imagine how decades of having to defend your existence while watching other schools get built unnecessarily makes everyone in options assume the worst. I know this because I was on IPP task force years ago. It was eye opening.


Actually, Montessori finally moved out - not because both sides finally agreed - because south Arlington was facing a huge crowding problem (particularly Oakridge) and APS needed to build a new school (Fleet) to handle neighborhood program kids.

All the option programs probably won't get brand new buildings, no. But very few neighborhoods get new buildings, either. Only a few when population growth necessitating an additional school. Many neighborhood schools would love a new building, too, or at least a renovation to update it and bring it into modern times. Just like option schools. And there are far more neighborhood schools than option schools. No stepchildren here; equal wants and equally limited resources.

Montessori will be getting a new building (or essentially a new building) with the complete refurbishing and renovation and fitting-to-Montessori-specifications of the Career Center building.

ATS was supposed to get the new building that became Cardinal. That wasn't APS' fault - it was Reid Goldstein's.

If an option program is in the building with the worst conditions, it will get its proper place in the queue. But your option school (1) if it's Montessori, is already accounted for in a redevelopment plan; or (2) just might not be the most urgent facility in need of a re-do. If that's not satisfactory enough, take solace that Nottingham neighborhood is being "asked" to end. Note, APS is not proposing to close down an option program for swing space.



I don't think Fleet was the additional new ES, I think that has still not been built. Henry parents wanted a new building (just in place), and Montessori/Drew wanted to separate, so all of that came together in Fleet getting built and Montessori taking Henry. The overcrowding still exists in South Arlington. I think there is supposed to be a new ES in Crystal/ Pentagon city. That need goes as far back as South Arlington Working Group. I don't think we've seen the truly additional new ES built yet. BTW that is another reason building Cardinal as a neighborhood was so egregious. West over jumped in line over South Arlington where the real neighborhood need was and is.


A new school is an additional new school. Even at that time, there was acknowledgement that a SECOND additional school would be needed for Crystal City. And no, that second new school has not yet been built. But in 2014, at the time of the South Arlington Working Group, Fleet was the additional new ES.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Have you ever been in the Glenvarlyn area where kenmore is located? Traffic patterns are horrible and there’s more than one school close by. It might not take 25 minutes to get there but once you’re there it could be half an hour. That area is the worst!

We live in the neighborhood and attend Kenmore and have been fighting Arlington about traffic and how it’s set up for a couple years.


Yes, I have. Regularly at different times of the day. Yes, I believe there are things that can be done to improve flow on Carlin Springs. But it doesn't take 25 minutes to drive there from anywhere in the County.



There are times it takes us over 20 minutes to get home from picking up after school releases from Kenmore. Between busses, car traffic and walkers, it’s a zoo. We live off Columbia Pike so not too far. With that all said, I’m still not sure that’s a reason not to move immersion there. But it can and does take people 25 minutes when you factor in traffic.

Our oldest left immersion and our younger one is at Claremont.


That's why everyone who can should make use of the buses rather than driving and picking up their kids at release time. Walkers should be walking home and everyone else leaving at dismissal time should be taking a bus. It minimizes traffic. and fewer cars would be much safer for the walkers, btw.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Have you ever been in the Glenvarlyn area where kenmore is located? Traffic patterns are horrible and there’s more than one school close by. It might not take 25 minutes to get there but once you’re there it could be half an hour. That area is the worst!

We live in the neighborhood and attend Kenmore and have been fighting Arlington about traffic and how it’s set up for a couple years.


Yes, I have. Regularly at different times of the day. Yes, I believe there are things that can be done to improve flow on Carlin Springs. But it doesn't take 25 minutes to drive there from anywhere in the County.



There are times it takes us over 20 minutes to get home from picking up after school releases from Kenmore. Between busses, car traffic and walkers, it’s a zoo. We live off Columbia Pike so not too far. With that all said, I’m still not sure that’s a reason not to move immersion there. But it can and does take people 25 minutes when you factor in traffic.

Our oldest left immersion and our younger one is at Claremont.


That's why everyone who can should make use of the buses rather than driving and picking up their kids at release time. Walkers should be walking home and everyone else leaving at dismissal time should be taking a bus. It minimizes traffic. and fewer cars would be much safer for the walkers, btw.


Not PP, but most do utilize buses or walk, but there are times where a car pick up is needed (like a Dr appt immediately after school).

Even still, the road is a mess. In the morning you have rush hour traffic, plus arrivals to Carling Springs and Campbell. Until they open up the exit to the Fairfax side, they can’t and shouldn’t contemplate moving in more bus riders to this area. It’s nuts and it’s like one person in P&E who’s been trying to drive this train over all objections for years now. Put the option program in the school with space and projected space. Not into a very dense neighborhood school that causes unnecessary boundary changes. If things change again in 20 years, like they did before, reevaluate. Until then, this is the best use of our facilities and buses.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Have you ever been in the Glenvarlyn area where kenmore is located? Traffic patterns are horrible and there’s more than one school close by. It might not take 25 minutes to get there but once you’re there it could be half an hour. That area is the worst!

We live in the neighborhood and attend Kenmore and have been fighting Arlington about traffic and how it’s set up for a couple years.


Yes, I have. Regularly at different times of the day. Yes, I believe there are things that can be done to improve flow on Carlin Springs. But it doesn't take 25 minutes to drive there from anywhere in the County.



There are times it takes us over 20 minutes to get home from picking up after school releases from Kenmore. Between busses, car traffic and walkers, it’s a zoo. We live off Columbia Pike so not too far. With that all said, I’m still not sure that’s a reason not to move immersion there. But it can and does take people 25 minutes when you factor in traffic.

Our oldest left immersion and our younger one is at Claremont.


That's why everyone who can should make use of the buses rather than driving and picking up their kids at release time. Walkers should be walking home and everyone else leaving at dismissal time should be taking a bus. It minimizes traffic. and fewer cars would be much safer for the walkers, btw.



You can't force people not to pick up kids after school or for people not to drive around in the area. Of course it would be best if everyone walked or used the bus but that is not reality. That area is not safe for walking because of how it's designed. I live in the neighborhood and constantly have issues with cars almost hitting me even though there are traffic lights. It's not an easy area to maneuver and if we would have known what it was like now, we honestly probably wouldn't have moved to the neighborhood.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:my family left immersion after last year and I wish we would have done it sooner. I hope they figure out the plan for things soon because the program is suffering.


I'm the IPP poster. Part of the issue is only a few of the options have a genuine pedagogy attached, e.g., HB and Montessori. With those you can point to key parameters, identify pathways, distinguish individual progress, and adhere to them. Other options like ATS or Immersion have been more of a concept that were kind of thrown up on the chalkboard to see what sticks in a time of need of moving seats around. With Immersion, a key parameter became a demographic balance that is out of the control of a school system - that's tough and means the program is always expending energy on it. There are other challenges, like finding dual language certified teachers in subjects, for instance, where APS does not really get help from outside world. By contrast in Montessori, at least there's a whole ecosystem of training and certifying educators.


Hmm. Just what is HB's clear distinct pedagogy, and what are its specific key parameters, pathways, and measures of individual progress? Please don't tell me it's students taking responsibility for themselves or small classes and a small community. Those do not make a distinct pedagogy.

Montessori has a philosophy, yes. But show me the data that clearly demonstrate its notable impacts that could not otherwise be achieved through other means.

The idea to begin immersion might have started with the premise of being a way to de-segregate some students; but you can't honestly proclaim it does not have a unique focus? One that is of obvious benefit in our local area as well as a nation overall with a high % of Spanish-speaking immigrants? One that has some advantages for Spanish speaking English language learners.

ATS? I'm on board with that one. Except that it actually is distinguishable from the other neighborhood schools by its expectations, discipline, and results. However, that should not be an option program, it should be the standard.

You are so clearly Montessori. Justifying Montessori's "ecosystem of training and certifying educators" but dissing immersion's challenges to find dual language certified teachers without "help from the outside world."

I'm not an option parent of any sort. But I would support an immersion program over Montessori any day of the week. The challenges have an far more obvious pay-off than a Montessori education. The additional costs provide students with a useful distinguishing skill (bilingualism). Whereas, if I hadn't read about it, I would never in a million years have suspected or known Jeff Bezos was a Montessori product. Nothing distinguishing, aside from his ego, which some people can relate to the Arlington Montessori parents' belief that their children are more special than others and their "pedagogy" is so superior.


I'm an Immersion fan. What sparked me to comment were the comments seemingly advocating for it to finally be curtained. I don't agree. And I do agree with you that bilingualism should be encouraged in K-12 for society's benefit.
But I'm also correct that the pedagogy has been a mystery, a moving target. And the program as it existed for past 20 years was struggling (as others here attested). Those are also true, along with society's benefits. Public schools systems still run on the need for clear key parameters and expectations, hence the entire state DOE and SOLs, etc.
Clearly you dislike Montessori. Fine. I'm HB - there, now you can really hate me, right? But the pedag Go of project-based learning with individualized student approaches has a far more studied and proven track record than the nothing-official at APS Immersion. That's also a fact.
We're in a public system and we have to follow best practices, pedagogies and codified processes accordingly. If your only justification for a school is some kind of unquantifiable benefit than any folks would say go private and get it. Like I said, I'm an Immersion supporter but it's easier for HB and Montessori communities to advocate in the public system because of this. Hence why ATS is also under fire.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:my family left immersion after last year and I wish we would have done it sooner. I hope they figure out the plan for things soon because the program is suffering.


I'm the IPP poster. Part of the issue is only a few of the options have a genuine pedagogy attached, e.g., HB and Montessori. With those you can point to key parameters, identify pathways, distinguish individual progress, and adhere to them. Other options like ATS or Immersion have been more of a concept that were kind of thrown up on the chalkboard to see what sticks in a time of need of moving seats around. With Immersion, a key parameter became a demographic balance that is out of the control of a school system - that's tough and means the program is always expending energy on it. There are other challenges, like finding dual language certified teachers in subjects, for instance, where APS does not really get help from outside world. By contrast in Montessori, at least there's a whole ecosystem of training and certifying educators.


This is interesting, thank you for this thoughtful perspective. Did anything come of the IPP?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:my family left immersion after last year and I wish we would have done it sooner. I hope they figure out the plan for things soon because the program is suffering.


I'm the IPP poster. Part of the issue is only a few of the options have a genuine pedagogy attached, e.g., HB and Montessori. With those you can point to key parameters, identify pathways, distinguish individual progress, and adhere to them. Other options like ATS or Immersion have been more of a concept that were kind of thrown up on the chalkboard to see what sticks in a time of need of moving seats around. With Immersion, a key parameter became a demographic balance that is out of the control of a school system - that's tough and means the program is always expending energy on it. There are other challenges, like finding dual language certified teachers in subjects, for instance, where APS does not really get help from outside world. By contrast in Montessori, at least there's a whole ecosystem of training and certifying educators.


Hmm. Just what is HB's clear distinct pedagogy, and what are its specific key parameters, pathways, and measures of individual progress? Please don't tell me it's students taking responsibility for themselves or small classes and a small community. Those do not make a distinct pedagogy.

Montessori has a philosophy, yes. But show me the data that clearly demonstrate its notable impacts that could not otherwise be achieved through other means.

The idea to begin immersion might have started with the premise of being a way to de-segregate some students; but you can't honestly proclaim it does not have a unique focus? One that is of obvious benefit in our local area as well as a nation overall with a high % of Spanish-speaking immigrants? One that has some advantages for Spanish speaking English language learners.

ATS? I'm on board with that one. Except that it actually is distinguishable from the other neighborhood schools by its expectations, discipline, and results. However, that should not be an option program, it should be the standard.

You are so clearly Montessori. Justifying Montessori's "ecosystem of training and certifying educators" but dissing immersion's challenges to find dual language certified teachers without "help from the outside world."

I'm not an option parent of any sort. But I would support an immersion program over Montessori any day of the week. The challenges have an far more obvious pay-off than a Montessori education. The additional costs provide students with a useful distinguishing skill (bilingualism). Whereas, if I hadn't read about it, I would never in a million years have suspected or known Jeff Bezos was a Montessori product. Nothing distinguishing, aside from his ego, which some people can relate to the Arlington Montessori parents' belief that their children are more special than others and their "pedagogy" is so superior.


omg, a rant complete with Jeff Bezos in it. classic.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:my family left immersion after last year and I wish we would have done it sooner. I hope they figure out the plan for things soon because the program is suffering.


I'm the IPP poster. Part of the issue is only a few of the options have a genuine pedagogy attached, e.g., HB and Montessori. With those you can point to key parameters, identify pathways, distinguish individual progress, and adhere to them. Other options like ATS or Immersion have been more of a concept that were kind of thrown up on the chalkboard to see what sticks in a time of need of moving seats around. With Immersion, a key parameter became a demographic balance that is out of the control of a school system - that's tough and means the program is always expending energy on it. There are other challenges, like finding dual language certified teachers in subjects, for instance, where APS does not really get help from outside world. By contrast in Montessori, at least there's a whole ecosystem of training and certifying educators.


This is interesting, thank you for this thoughtful perspective. Did anything come of the IPP?


It got shelved for a couple of reasons, or at least in my opinion. For starters, there were deep suspicions among some in the APS community it was an effort by then-superintendent Murphy and his admin to get rid of options. I wasn't in that circle so I can't verify, but I heard it. What I did see and can attest is it became clear even in the committee meetings that different programs were at different stages of what ill called maturity, especially when you were tying to describe them in the rubric of public school systems. I remember someone giving the baseball analogy that Immersion was on 2nd base. Just for contrast, Montessori was basically running for home. With the latter you could map it all out and how a K-8 works in the public system. None of this was meant to judge different programs, just to try to map them. The IPP was supposed to be the first time APS ever had a formal blueprint for how options worked, despite the fact that APS already had them for like50 years.
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