Help me figure out which schools are realistic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Build a balanced list of schools: reach, targets and safeties/likelies. That means recognizing that any school with less than 20% acceptance rate is a Reach for ANYONE. So NU/Duke/HYPSM etc are a major reach for everyone---think of them as highly rejective. So pick a few and apply and give it your all, but do not let your kid fall in love with them and make sure they know it's not likely to happen.

Pick targets where your kids scores are 50%+ and acceptance rates are 20-25%+.
Safeties are 50%+ acceptance rates and your kid's scores at/above 75%+
Likelies are 75%+ acceptance rates and kid's scores at/above 75+.

remember your kid must like all the schools and you must be able to afford them in order for them to be real and on your list. A safety your kid doesn't want to attend is NOT a safety.

Pick at least 3-4 in each category and your kid will be fine come March/April senior year. They will likely be in at 50% of their Targets and 50%+ of their safeties. Reaches who knows, they might win the lottery.

Based on the other post, no public university is a true safety for anyone because they do yield protection.

You have really oversimplified this. I will say that MOST public universities are "safeties" for OP's kid.

Having just gone the application cycle, a big nope to that. Targets at best.

Depends upon the major. Most public Universities are Safeties with that resume if applying to Arts and Sciences/general admission. If you want a highly desired major (cs/eng/business) then yes they are reaches or targets. Outside of 10 or so Public U and the UCs, most state Universities would be a safety with that resume for general admission (general admission is the key phrase)

Maybe in 1999, certainly not today.

My student went through the cycle this year. I really don’t want to waste more of my energy arguing this point. Deluded parents who want to believe the admissions environment isn’t as competitive as it is only hurt the applicants.

It is more competitive. But go look at the statistics for Public Universities, outside of the Elite 10 or so plus the UCs. Va Tech has a 56% acceptance rate. Yes it's harder to get into CS/Eng, but getting into the general admission is still a low target for someone with those stats. The issue is many want CS/Eng/Business and those are impacted/direct admit majors at many of those Public Us


Take the Big 10 schools: outside of Northwestern (t10/elite) and Umich, the admission rates overall is over 50% at each and every school. Outside of 3 schools in VA, all the admission rates are higher than 50% for publics, with many over 75-80%. So if you are "general admission/non elite major" the admission rates are actually higher than the overall, and obviously lower forCS/Eng/Business/etc. But fact remains that while it is more competitive for the elite majors, outside top 10 Public Unis and the UCs most Public Universities have acceptance rates over 50% in general

in the 2023 cycle, for out of state, the bolded isn't true at at least one, and probably a few of the big10 schools, and certainly for Illinois and CS, definitely not true.

This is the overall general admission rate. Already stated it is different for majors that are direct admit---CS/ENG/Business which is especially true for CS/Eng at UIllinois. For class of 2025 the UIllinois acceptance rate (overall ) for OOS was ~57%. About 9% below in-state. While it is lower for class of 2027 I'm sure, it is not that much. Fact is for non-impacted majors (which are CS/eng/Business/Info Sys or whatever the hell UIUC calls their other almost CS majors) the acceptance rate for OOS is near 50%. Recognize that it's the Degree you want that is causing the selectivity at most state schools. And recognize if you are willing to pay OOS somewhere there are plenty of excellent private schools that give merit that your kid can attend and get whatever major they way, they can switch anytime they want without having to play "hunger games2.0" to get into the desire major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Build a balanced list of schools: reach, targets and safeties/likelies. That means recognizing that any school with less than 20% acceptance rate is a Reach for ANYONE. So NU/Duke/HYPSM etc are a major reach for everyone---think of them as highly rejective. So pick a few and apply and give it your all, but do not let your kid fall in love with them and make sure they know it's not likely to happen.

Pick targets where your kids scores are 50%+ and acceptance rates are 20-25%+.
Safeties are 50%+ acceptance rates and your kid's scores at/above 75%+
Likelies are 75%+ acceptance rates and kid's scores at/above 75+.

remember your kid must like all the schools and you must be able to afford them in order for them to be real and on your list. A safety your kid doesn't want to attend is NOT a safety.

Pick at least 3-4 in each category and your kid will be fine come March/April senior year. They will likely be in at 50% of their Targets and 50%+ of their safeties. Reaches who knows, they might win the lottery.

Based on the other post, no public university is a true safety for anyone because they do yield protection.

You have really oversimplified this. I will say that MOST public universities are "safeties" for OP's kid.

Having just gone the application cycle, a big nope to that. Targets at best.

Depends upon the major. Most public Universities are Safeties with that resume if applying to Arts and Sciences/general admission. If you want a highly desired major (cs/eng/business) then yes they are reaches or targets. Outside of 10 or so Public U and the UCs, most state Universities would be a safety with that resume for general admission (general admission is the key phrase)

Maybe in 1999, certainly not today.

My student went through the cycle this year. I really don’t want to waste more of my energy arguing this point. Deluded parents who want to believe the admissions environment isn’t as competitive as it is only hurt the applicants.

It is more competitive. But go look at the statistics for Public Universities, outside of the Elite 10 or so plus the UCs. Va Tech has a 56% acceptance rate. Yes it's harder to get into CS/Eng, but getting into the general admission is still a low target for someone with those stats. The issue is many want CS/Eng/Business and those are impacted/direct admit majors at many of those Public Us


Take the Big 10 schools: outside of Northwestern (t10/elite) and Umich, the admission rates overall is over 50% at each and every school. Outside of 3 schools in VA, all the admission rates are higher than 50% for publics, with many over 75-80%. So if you are "general admission/non elite major" the admission rates are actually higher than the overall, and obviously lower forCS/Eng/Business/etc. But fact remains that while it is more competitive for the elite majors, outside top 10 Public Unis and the UCs most Public Universities have acceptance rates over 50% in general

Looking at UMDs CDS for Fall 2022, acceptance rate was 45%.

Quick glance, UWM was 49% and UIUC was 45%.

UIUC was in the 20-25 percent range this year (For fall 2023) for computer science, business, engineering, and information sciences ( i.e. any major where it has a decent program) https://admissions.blog/university-of-illinois-urbana-champaign-releases-admissions-decisions/ And that’s all comers, oos typically lower.

Obviously impacted majors (CS/Eng/Business) will be much lower. They are at all schools that limit the number of majors/direct admit/do "impacted Majors". So the numbers are more like upper 40's% not over 50%. Point is most schools are still high targets even OOS as a general admit. If people stopped applying to 20+ schools, the acceptance rates would go back to normal. But for now everyone does the 20+ schools and hopes for the best. But if you strategically pick your targets and safeties you should get into at least 50% of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have two kids who had similar stats and circumstances. Both got into top 15 schools. Both received packages that made it affordable. My two cents as a parent: The GPA and SAT/ACT score is what gets you an initial look. For unhooked kids from the burbs that will be a very high threshold. 3.95 unweighted with APs and a difficult course load plus a 1590 totally meets that threshold. That app will be read

What set my kids apart, I believe, is that both were highly self-motivated and knew what they wanted to do. Their ECs reflected that. Very different interests but both had unique experiences, leadership positions, and national awards. All done on their own. Additionally, they were both athletes and had some good community service projects. I think it's important to somehow reflect that the applicant is a decent, well-rounded individual that plays well with others. Schools are looking for people that will be a plus for the community

Additionally, solid teacher recs. Those recs need to be effusive about how this is a really special student

Also, essays. Cannot stress that enough. Schools like Northwestern are looking at 50,000 applications. The vast majority are going to have absolutely stellar academics. The essay is the one place where a student can be an individual. It really matters. And don't even think about outsourcing or heavily editing the essay. The BS detector of admissions officers is off the charts. They've seen it all. It needs to be authentic. It's so important. You need to make the reader your champion when it gets to committee.

Finally, be strategic. MIT for instance - and I love their admissions process - does not favor early admissions over regular. So don't throw the ED card there. Similarly, Harvard and Stanford. ED makes no sense. It's where they fill their "preferred slots." Middle class white or asian kids from the burbs have no chance there. Go further down the list, find the right match for your child - make sure you visit - and apply early decision where it makes a difference. I've seen suburban kids get into Northwestern. But they were young journalists - editors of the school paper, clips from online or national publications. But that's very specific for Northwestern, which is known for its journalism program. Other schools will have different priorities. But know what they are

It's a lot of hoops for a teenager. And if they're not self-motivated, no one one should push them. Tons of really smart kids are going to the honors program at their state colleges or taking merit elsewhere. Think the value of pedigree degrees will flatline in the years ahead. Would tell all smart kids not to stress

+100 most of the kids who end up at the T20 schools have an internal drive/motivation that many with just top stats/ECs do not have. That will show thru in the essays/supplementals and more importantly the teacher recommendations. As well as with the ECs, the AO can use their BS detector to pick those internally motivated kids out from the pack.
It's a lottery for everyone else (the last 25% or so), so pick targets and safeties strategically and your kid will end up where they belong and are happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Amherst, and top LACs aren't that big of reaches anymore. In fact their ARs went up this year.
Duke ED, Vandy. Emory, Rice, Georgetown, Notre Dame are all moderate Reaches.

LOL, any school with an acceptance rate <10%, or even <15%, is a reach FOR EVERYONE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Build a balanced list of schools: reach, targets and safeties/likelies. That means recognizing that any school with less than 20% acceptance rate is a Reach for ANYONE. So NU/Duke/HYPSM etc are a major reach for everyone---think of them as highly rejective. So pick a few and apply and give it your all, but do not let your kid fall in love with them and make sure they know it's not likely to happen.

Pick targets where your kids scores are 50%+ and acceptance rates are 20-25%+.
Safeties are 50%+ acceptance rates and your kid's scores at/above 75%+
Likelies are 75%+ acceptance rates and kid's scores at/above 75+.

remember your kid must like all the schools and you must be able to afford them in order for them to be real and on your list. A safety your kid doesn't want to attend is NOT a safety.

Pick at least 3-4 in each category and your kid will be fine come March/April senior year. They will likely be in at 50% of their Targets and 50%+ of their safeties. Reaches who knows, they might win the lottery.

Based on the other post, no public university is a true safety for anyone because they do yield protection.

You have really oversimplified this. I will say that MOST public universities are "safeties" for OP's kid.

Having just gone the application cycle, a big nope to that. Targets at best.

Depends upon the major. Most public Universities are Safeties with that resume if applying to Arts and Sciences/general admission. If you want a highly desired major (cs/eng/business) then yes they are reaches or targets. Outside of 10 or so Public U and the UCs, most state Universities would be a safety with that resume for general admission (general admission is the key phrase)

Maybe in 1999, certainly not today.

My student went through the cycle this year. I really don’t want to waste more of my energy arguing this point. Deluded parents who want to believe the admissions environment isn’t as competitive as it is only hurt the applicants.

It is more competitive. But go look at the statistics for Public Universities, outside of the Elite 10 or so plus the UCs. Va Tech has a 56% acceptance rate. Yes it's harder to get into CS/Eng, but getting into the general admission is still a low target for someone with those stats. The issue is many want CS/Eng/Business and those are impacted/direct admit majors at many of those Public Us


Take the Big 10 schools: outside of Northwestern (t10/elite) and Umich, the admission rates overall is over 50% at each and every school. Outside of 3 schools in VA, all the admission rates are higher than 50% for publics, with many over 75-80%. So if you are "general admission/non elite major" the admission rates are actually higher than the overall, and obviously lower forCS/Eng/Business/etc. But fact remains that while it is more competitive for the elite majors, outside top 10 Public Unis and the UCs most Public Universities have acceptance rates over 50% in general

Looking at UMDs CDS for Fall 2022, acceptance rate was 45%.

Quick glance, UWM was 49% and UIUC was 45%.

UIUC was in the 20-25 percent range this year (For fall 2023) for computer science, business, engineering, and information sciences ( i.e. any major where it has a decent program) https://admissions.blog/university-of-illinois-urbana-champaign-releases-admissions-decisions/ And that’s all comers, oos typically lower.

if you go by major, UMD rate would be lower, too, for CS, at least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have two kids who had similar stats and circumstances. Both got into top 15 schools. Both received packages that made it affordable. My two cents as a parent: The GPA and SAT/ACT score is what gets you an initial look. For unhooked kids from the burbs that will be a very high threshold. 3.95 unweighted with APs and a difficult course load plus a 1590 totally meets that threshold. That app will be read

What set my kids apart, I believe, is that both were highly self-motivated and knew what they wanted to do. Their ECs reflected that. Very different interests but both had unique experiences, leadership positions, and national awards. All done on their own. Additionally, they were both athletes and had some good community service projects. I think it's important to somehow reflect that the applicant is a decent, well-rounded individual that plays well with others. Schools are looking for people that will be a plus for the community

Additionally, solid teacher recs. Those recs need to be effusive about how this is a really special student

Also, essays. Cannot stress that enough. Schools like Northwestern are looking at 50,000 applications. The vast majority are going to have absolutely stellar academics. The essay is the one place where a student can be an individual. It really matters. And don't even think about outsourcing or heavily editing the essay. The BS detector of admissions officers is off the charts. They've seen it all. It needs to be authentic. It's so important. You need to make the reader your champion when it gets to committee.

Finally, be strategic. MIT for instance - and I love their admissions process - does not favor early admissions over regular. So don't throw the ED card there. Similarly, Harvard and Stanford. ED makes no sense. It's where they fill their "preferred slots." Middle class white or asian kids from the burbs have no chance there. Go further down the list, find the right match for your child - make sure you visit - and apply early decision where it makes a difference. I've seen suburban kids get into Northwestern. But they were young journalists - editors of the school paper, clips from online or national publications. But that's very specific for Northwestern, which is known for its journalism program. Other schools will have different priorities. But know what they are

It's a lot of hoops for a teenager. And if they're not self-motivated, no one one should push them. Tons of really smart kids are going to the honors program at their state colleges or taking merit elsewhere. Think the value of pedigree degrees will flatline in the years ahead. Would tell all smart kids not to stress

To which Top 15 schools were your kids accepted ? I ask because I think that your post contains some misinformation.

To the best of my knowledge, MIT does not offer ED as an application option.

Your advice regarding ED only applies to those who have more than one first choice school.

While I do agree with much of your advice, some of your suggestions need refinement--such as with respect to application essays.

[Anonymous]

Has OP ever indicated her daughter's preferred major area of study ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. A target would be UVa, VaTech, William &Mary or Maryland CP, depending what state you are in. I think T20 will be unrealistic, but there is no harm applying if your dd understands it is an extreme long shot. It’s very hard for girls in particular right now.

A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

This is what people fail to understand. T20 and top SLAC are a huge reach for even high stats kids if you don't meet some sort of institutional priority. And in RD - that extends into T30 and down the SLAC list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Build a balanced list of schools: reach, targets and safeties/likelies. That means recognizing that any school with less than 20% acceptance rate is a Reach for ANYONE. So NU/Duke/HYPSM etc are a major reach for everyone---think of them as highly rejective. So pick a few and apply and give it your all, but do not let your kid fall in love with them and make sure they know it's not likely to happen.

Pick targets where your kids scores are 50%+ and acceptance rates are 20-25%+.
Safeties are 50%+ acceptance rates and your kid's scores at/above 75%+
Likelies are 75%+ acceptance rates and kid's scores at/above 75+.

remember your kid must like all the schools and you must be able to afford them in order for them to be real and on your list. A safety your kid doesn't want to attend is NOT a safety.

Pick at least 3-4 in each category and your kid will be fine come March/April senior year. They will likely be in at 50% of their Targets and 50%+ of their safeties. Reaches who knows, they might win the lottery.

Based on the other post, no public university is a true safety for anyone because they do yield protection.

You have really oversimplified this. I will say that MOST public universities are "safeties" for OP's kid.

Having just gone the application cycle, a big nope to that. Targets at best.

Depends upon the major. Most public Universities are Safeties with that resume if applying to Arts and Sciences/general admission. If you want a highly desired major (cs/eng/business) then yes they are reaches or targets. Outside of 10 or so Public U and the UCs, most state Universities would be a safety with that resume for general admission (general admission is the key phrase)

Maybe in 1999, certainly not today.

My student went through the cycle this year. I really don’t want to waste more of my energy arguing this point. Deluded parents who want to believe the admissions environment isn’t as competitive as it is only hurt the applicants.

It is more competitive. But go look at the statistics for Public Universities, outside of the Elite 10 or so plus the UCs. Va Tech has a 56% acceptance rate. Yes it's harder to get into CS/Eng, but getting into the general admission is still a low target for someone with those stats. The issue is many want CS/Eng/Business and those are impacted/direct admit majors at many of those Public Us


Take the Big 10 schools: outside of Northwestern (t10/elite) and Umich, the admission rates overall is over 50% at each and every school. Outside of 3 schools in VA, all the admission rates are higher than 50% for publics, with many over 75-80%. So if you are "general admission/non elite major" the admission rates are actually higher than the overall, and obviously lower forCS/Eng/Business/etc. But fact remains that while it is more competitive for the elite majors, outside top 10 Public Unis and the UCs most Public Universities have acceptance rates over 50% in general

Looking at UMDs CDS for Fall 2022, acceptance rate was 45%.

Quick glance, UWM was 49% and UIUC was 45%.

UIUC was in the 20-25 percent range this year (For fall 2023) for computer science, business, engineering, and information sciences ( i.e. any major where it has a decent program) https://admissions.blog/university-of-illinois-urbana-champaign-releases-admissions-decisions/ And that’s all comers, oos typically lower.

if you go by major, UMD rate would be lower, too, for CS, at least.

Also Maryland acceptance rates dropped abut 10 points this year from the class of 2026 cycle.

[Anonymous]

Like many said, apply ED if you can afford and don’t mind full pay. We can’t so DC didn’t do ED. Slightly better stats - 4.54 GPA with the most rigorous coursework, varsity athlete, and multiple national awards in different areas. Rejected by 4 ivies and UVA, WL by some and DC didn’t send any LOCI, and accepted by Wesleyan, Denison, WM, and two LAC of WASP. DC had regrets on their strategies/essays/maybe rec letters but is very happy about the results. We honestly don’t know what worked and what didn’t work. Hope this helps in some way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. A target would be UVa, VaTech, William &Mary or Maryland CP, depending what state you are in. I think T20 will be unrealistic, but there is no harm applying if your dd understands it is an extreme long shot. It’s very hard for girls in particular right now.

A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

You have no clue how common these grades are these days. More than 20 percent of the class will have similar grades.

Do you have any data to back up that claim?

20% of kids will have 1550? BS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. A target would be UVa, VaTech, William &Mary or Maryland CP, depending what state you are in. I think T20 will be unrealistic, but there is no harm applying if your dd understands it is an extreme long shot. It’s very hard for girls in particular right now.

A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

You have no clue how common these grades are these days. More than 20 percent of the class will have similar grades.

Do you have any data to back up that claim?

20% of kids will have 1550? BS

NP: I agree that at a typical suburban HS or private school, 20% of students will not have 1550 on the SAT, but the PP is correct that in many schools, up to 40% of students have a 4.0+ (especially at suburban public high schools). However, in the larger applicant pool, there are many more kids than most people realize that apply to highly selective colleges with an SAT score greater than 1500 or a 34+ on the ACT due to superscoring and taking the exam multiple times. During the 2022 admissions cycle, 76,000 kids applied to college with an SAT score of >1500 (including ACT equivalent). Source: Common App report (https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/ca.research.publish/Research_Briefs_2022/2022_12_09_Apps_Per_Applicant_ResearchBrief.pdf)

[Anonymous]

Williams, wash u, Wesleyan l, Hamilton are all higher admit rates on ED. Cornell? Tufts are possibilities. Dartmouth actually not as bad ED as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:agree —all the slots at bowdoin for white kids are athletes and highly unusual credentials

Well, not all the slots. I think alignment of fit made a big difference for my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amherst, and top LACs aren't that big of reaches anymore. In fact their ARs went up this year.
Duke ED, Vandy. Emory, Rice, Georgetown, Notre Dame are all moderate Reaches.

While it’s true that the acceptance rate was up slightly this year at Amherst, it was still just 9 percent.

Duke ED (16.5, almost identical to Vandy ED), Vandy (7 overall), Rice (7), Georgetown (13), and Notre Dame (12). All these acceptance rates put them in the reach for all category, The only exception is Emory which has an ED1 acceptance rate close to 40 percent, but it’s less popular due to lack of spectator sports and perceived lack of school spirit.

Applicants to Georgetown are self-selecting given lack of common app participation. As such, many feel GU would have a single digit acceptance rate otherwise.