Help me figure out which schools are realistic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like many said, apply ED if you can afford and don’t mind full pay. We can’t so DC didn’t do ED. Slightly better stats - 4.54 GPA with the most rigorous coursework, varsity athlete, and multiple national awards in different areas. Rejected by 4 ivies and UVA, WL by some and DC didn’t send any LOCI, and accepted by Wesleyan, Denison, WM, and two LAC of WASP. DC had regrets on their strategies/essays/maybe rec letters but is very happy about the results. We honestly don’t know what worked and what didn’t work. Hope this helps in some way.

what is a LAC of WASP?

LAC = Liberal Arts College
WASP = Williams Amherst Swarthmore Pomona

[Anonymous]

I would ED to a SLAC if there is one kid really likes. Tour them now and see if kid really connects anywhere. I do think your kid would have a shot at Cornell ED depending on strengths. Possibly NU. But, these would be long shots. Also U Chicago -- they take a lot ED. Or NYU ED.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading through the northwestern thread where multiple people said no one gets in…I’m just not sure where to encourage my kid to look. What would you all suggest for a white female, good public school, 3.95 UW with high rigor, 1550 SAT, several extracurriculars including leadership roles, volunteerism and awards — but nothing knock your socks off like those famous awards or started a non-profit or wrote a published book or whatever.

I’m assuming Harvard, Yale, Princeton and places like Amherst are unrealistic. What would be realistic? Kid does not want to go to the Sputh and isn’t super interested in California so we are primarily looking Northeast, mid Atlantic, or upper Midwest.

Thanks for any ideas.

Of course students are admitted to Northwestern University. ED admit rate is much higher than the RD admit rate. Overall rate of admission is just under 7% (6.97%).

Does your daughter have a particular major that she would like to study ?

Your daughter's stats are outstanding. ECs depends upon depth/quality/length of participation.

Are you aware that many well respected LACs offer a second round of ED. Your daughter could apply ED to Northwestern, then--if unsuccessful--apply ED to a school which offers a second round of ED.

Rolling admissions, early admissions (EA), and binding ED (early decision) admissions could & should all be utilized or, at least, considered.

DP. So, this is a risky plan. Many of the ED admits to NU are recruits, and the numbers are not really much greater. We knew a stellar kid who was flat out rejected ED. My kid got in RD, and we met a kid who got in RD who had gotten rejected ED II from Wesleyan. I think some of the LACs aren't as keen in ED II as EDI.

I agree there is a shot, but don't think of ED II as a safety net. If the kid really likes a LAC, their odds would be better EDI. Of course, if they really want to give NU their first shot, I agree w/ you that ED II would be an option. I just don't think of it as confidently as you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading through the northwestern thread where multiple people said no one gets in…I’m just not sure where to encourage my kid to look. What would you all suggest for a white female, good public school, 3.95 UW with high rigor, 1550 SAT, several extracurriculars including leadership roles, volunteerism and awards — but nothing knock your socks off like those famous awards or started a non-profit or wrote a published book or whatever.

I’m assuming Harvard, Yale, Princeton and places like Amherst are unrealistic. What would be realistic? Kid does not want to go to the Sputh and isn’t super interested in California so we are primarily looking Northeast, mid Atlantic, or upper Midwest.

Thanks for any ideas.

I didn't read the other thread. But this describes my DD's friend who got in from a Tysons Corner (Vienna/Falls Church) HS in 2020. OF course this is just 1 person I know of personally. She applied ED to their music program.

Music is its own thing really. It's audition based, so wouldn't really be relevant to a general applicant. But, congrats to your friend! Bienen is a fantastic music school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Realistic targets: SLACs like Grinnell, Carleton, Kenyon, Hamilton probably?
For larger universities: NYU, Georgetown, Michigan

I'd think she'd have a shot at Penn/Cornell/etc. too but obviously those are more of a crapshoot/reach

Hamilton, Georgetown, Michigan and NUu would all be reaches, not targets.

+1

BTDT. Same stats (slightly higher, actually).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. A target would be UVa, VaTech, William &Mary or Maryland CP, depending what state you are in. I think T20 will be unrealistic, but there is no harm applying if your dd understands it is an extreme long shot. It’s very hard for girls in particular right now.

A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

You have no clue how common these grades are these days. More than 20 percent of the class will have similar grades.

Do you have any data to back up that claim?

20% of kids will have 1550? BS

NP: I agree that at a typical suburban HS or private school, 20% of students will not have 1550 on the SAT, but the PP is correct that in many schools, up to 40% of students have a 4.0+ (especially at suburban public high schools). However, in the larger applicant pool, there are many more kids than most people realize that apply to highly selective colleges with an SAT score greater than 1500 or a 34+ on the ACT due to superscoring and taking the exam multiple times. During the 2022 admissions cycle, 76,000 kids applied to college with an SAT score of >1500 (including ACT equivalent). Source: Common App report (https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/ca.research.publish/Research_Briefs_2022/2022_12_09_Apps_Per_Applicant_ResearchBrief.pdf)

Per this report, <12% have over 1500, so like 5% or less over 1550. Definitely not 20%, ridiculous statement.

You are strangely hung up on this. The original point was 20 percent to 40 percent of kids will have similar grades. 76,000 kids will have 1500 plus on SAT. And in the test optional world, schools will still consider the kids with the grades but not the scores. That is exactly why the test optional world has made college admissions so much more competitive and unpredictable.

NP. I agree with this. Son has similar stats to OP's kid, 4.0 uw, 1550, undecided. Might ED to Northwestern but unsure at this point about an ED2. It's a roll of the dice. Hard to love a school enough to make the ED commitment but not so much that the likely denial is tough to accept.

DP. That is the dilemma!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. A target would be UVa, VaTech, William &Mary or Maryland CP, depending what state you are in. I think T20 will be unrealistic, but there is no harm applying if your dd understands it is an extreme long shot. It’s very hard for girls in particular right now.

A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

You have no clue how common these grades are these days. More than 20 percent of the class will have similar grades.

Do you have any data to back up that claim?

NP. I live in California, where public high schools often publish school profiles. Approximately 20% of the classes at many public schools have this grade profile.

Then it should be really easy to provide that data, so far just anecdotes

If yiu think it isn’t true, ask the college courselor at your school. That is the only information that will matter for your student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading through the northwestern thread where multiple people said no one gets in…I’m just not sure where to encourage my kid to look. What would you all suggest for a white female, good public school, 3.95 UW with high rigor, 1550 SAT, several extracurriculars including leadership roles, volunteerism and awards — but nothing knock your socks off like those famous awards or started a non-profit or wrote a published book or whatever.

I’m assuming Harvard, Yale, Princeton and places like Amherst are unrealistic. What would be realistic? Kid does not want to go to the Sputh and isn’t super interested in California so we are primarily looking Northeast, mid Atlantic, or upper Midwest.

Thanks for any ideas.

Of course students are admitted to Northwestern University. ED admit rate is much higher than the RD admit rate. Overall rate of admission is just under 7% (6.97%).

Does your daughter have a particular major that she would like to study ?

Your daughter's stats are outstanding. ECs depends upon depth/quality/length of participation.

Are you aware that many well respected LACs offer a second round of ED. Your daughter could apply ED to Northwestern, then--if unsuccessful--apply ED to a school which offers a second round of ED.

Rolling admissions, early admissions (EA), and binding ED (early decision) admissions could & should all be utilized or, at least, considered.

DP. So, this is a risky plan. Many of the ED admits to NU are recruits, and the numbers are not really much greater. We knew a stellar kid who was flat out rejected ED. My kid got in RD, and we met a kid who got in RD who had gotten rejected ED II from Wesleyan. I think some of the LACs aren't as keen in ED II as EDI.

I agree there is a shot, but don't think of ED II as a safety net. If the kid really likes a LAC, their odds would be better EDI. Of course, if they really want to give NU their first shot, I agree w/ you that ED II would be an option. I just don't think of it as confidently as you.

No, it is not a risky plan if you follow my advice. The example that I suggested to OP was to apply ED to Northwestern while also applying EA to University of Michigan and rolling admissions to University of Pittsburgh. If unsatisfied with the results, then apply ED 2 toa school and RD to others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. A target would be UVa, VaTech, William &Mary or Maryland CP, depending what state you are in. I think T20 will be unrealistic, but there is no harm applying if your dd understands it is an extreme long shot. It’s very hard for girls in particular right now.

A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

You have no clue how common these grades are these days. More than 20 percent of the class will have similar grades.

Do you have any data to back up that claim?

NP. I live in California, where public high schools often publish school profiles. Approximately 20% of the classes at many public schools have this grade profile.

Then it should be really easy to provide that data, so far just anecdotes

Different PP. In our area, the high school School Profiles provide quartile data based on the weighted GPA. Some weight honors, others don't even offer honors, but offer lots of dual enrolllment options, where random electives via DE come with significant GPA bumps. It is much more difficult to guess what % of the class actually has straight As.

Which makes me wonder, what does the admissions officer do with that information. Suppose you have an applicant with a 4.0 uw and, say, 6-9 APs, but their weighted GPA puts them just inside the top quartile. Would the addition of a high test score, mid-1500s like the examples above, move the needle, or no, not in the current test optional scenario?

Depends on many things including if either student has a hook. Sometimes particularly strong or unique extracurriculars can outweigh a stronger test score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading through the northwestern thread where multiple people said no one gets in…I’m just not sure where to encourage my kid to look. What would you all suggest for a white female, good public school, 3.95 UW with high rigor, 1550 SAT, several extracurriculars including leadership roles, volunteerism and awards — but nothing knock your socks off like those famous awards or started a non-profit or wrote a published book or whatever.

I’m assuming Harvard, Yale, Princeton and places like Amherst are unrealistic. What would be realistic? Kid does not want to go to the Sputh and isn’t super interested in California so we are primarily looking Northeast, mid Atlantic, or upper Midwest.

Thanks for any ideas.

Of course students are admitted to Northwestern University. ED admit rate is much higher than the RD admit rate. Overall rate of admission is just under 7% (6.97%).

Does your daughter have a particular major that she would like to study ?

Your daughter's stats are outstanding. ECs depends upon depth/quality/length of participation.

Are you aware that many well respected LACs offer a second round of ED. Your daughter could apply ED to Northwestern, then--if unsuccessful--apply ED to a school which offers a second round of ED.

Rolling admissions, early admissions (EA), and binding ED (early decision) admissions could & should all be utilized or, at least, considered.

DP. So, this is a risky plan. Many of the ED admits to NU are recruits, and the numbers are not really much greater. We knew a stellar kid who was flat out rejected ED. My kid got in RD, and we met a kid who got in RD who had gotten rejected ED II from Wesleyan. I think some of the LACs aren't as keen in ED II as EDI.

I agree there is a shot, but don't think of ED II as a safety net. If the kid really likes a LAC, their odds would be better EDI. Of course, if they really want to give NU their first shot, I agree w/ you that ED II would be an option. I just don't think of it as confidently as you.

No, it is not a risky plan if you follow my advice. The example that I suggested to OP was to apply ED to Northwestern while also applying EA to University of Michigan and rolling admissions to University of Pittsburgh. If unsatisfied with the results, then apply ED 2 toa school and RD to others.

It is risky in terms of hyping up chances at NU in ED1 and banking on an ED2. I said I agreed with some things, but the way you posed these two aspects seemed overconfident for this admissions climate. Agree about rolling options, but OP seemed to be looking more for ED advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With [OP's DC's] profile, no school is out, but top schools are enough of a crap shoot that they shouldn't expect to get in either. There is nothing wrong with shooting their shot at ivy league schools- they have the same odds that any other unhooked kids would have.

Anonymous wrote:A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. ...

Anonymous wrote:This is what people fail to understand. T20 and top SLAC are a huge reach for even high stats kids if you don't meet some sort of institutional priority. And in RD - that extends into T30 and down the SLAC list.

I'm normally not much for multi-quotes -- some related others not -- but I found these thought-provoking and somewhat wrenching.

A near-perfect report card (old term, I know) and very high SATs should make them a viable but not necessarily certain candidate for Top schools. Assign whatever number you want, 10-20-50, to "Top". But I believe the last quote to be more today's reality. Without a hook, "top" anything is still a lottery.

Our DC is interested in a direct-admit major (not CS or engr!) and after (surprisingly) much discussion/contact with the program admissions staff (at a rather large OOS U) initiated and favored by DC, they openly stated they compute their own and unweighted GPA of the courses they considered most important to them (which sometimes changes over time).

So we've just told DC to do their best and still enjoy their final year of HS, and we'll let the chips on admissions and/or merit fall where they may. We cannot be full-pay and know some choices may have to be made. However, we believe DC's targets are reasonable (academically and financially) and almost am having to force any sort of application to a "reach". Safeties? Between holistic admissions and yield protection, both of which are understandable -- there aren't many anymore, IMHO.

Good luck to the OP. Keep yourself grounded to support your DC through this process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. A target would be UVa, VaTech, William &Mary or Maryland CP, depending what state you are in. I think T20 will be unrealistic, but there is no harm applying if your dd understands it is an extreme long shot. It’s very hard for girls in particular right now.

A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

It largely depends on the major. I know many 4.0 kids with 1580+ SAT scores with great e.c.'s who were rejected at T20.

It’s the same lottery for all of them, that doesn’t mean it isn’t worth buying a ticket

Exactly. One of my kids with a similar top of the class profile as OP's daughter applied early to her clear favorite Stanford and was ultimately rejected. However, she expressed no regrets using her ED bullet on Stanford b/c she said she didn't want to wonder "what if" at the age of 18 if she didn't at least try. She ultimately ended up at Dartmouth and loved her 4 years there so it all worked out for her. My younger one w/no obvious hooks wasn't nearly as strong of a student (1500 SAT and barely top 25% of her class) and applied ED to Middlebury and surprisingly (at least to her guidance counselor) got in. We are full pay and that may have helped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. A target would be UVa, VaTech, William &Mary or Maryland CP, depending what state you are in. I think T20 will be unrealistic, but there is no harm applying if your dd understands it is an extreme long shot. It’s very hard for girls in particular right now.

A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

It largely depends on the major. I know many 4.0 kids with 1580+ SAT scores with great e.c.'s who were rejected at T20.

It’s the same lottery for all of them, that doesn’t mean it isn’t worth buying a ticket

Exactly. One of my kids with a similar top of the class profile as OP's daughter applied early to her clear favorite Stanford and was ultimately rejected. However, she expressed no regrets using her ED bullet on Stanford b/c she said she didn't want to wonder "what if" at the age of 18 if she didn't at least try. She ultimately ended up at Dartmouth and loved her 4 years there so it all worked out for her. My younger one w/no obvious hooks wasn't nearly as strong of a student (1500 SAT and barely top 25% of her class) and applied ED to Middlebury and surprisingly (at least to her guidance counselor) got in. We are full pay and that may have helped.

Middlebury takes a surprisingly high number of kids Ed and almost no one RD. A very wise use of ED if your kid is interested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With [OP's DC's] profile, no school is out, but top schools are enough of a crap shoot that they shouldn't expect to get in either. There is nothing wrong with shooting their shot at ivy league schools- they have the same odds that any other unhooked kids would have.

Anonymous wrote:A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. ...

Anonymous wrote:This is what people fail to understand. T20 and top SLAC are a huge reach for even high stats kids if you don't meet some sort of institutional priority. And in RD - that extends into T30 and down the SLAC list.

I'm normally not much for multi-quotes -- some related others not -- but I found these thought-provoking and somewhat wrenching.

A near-perfect report card (old term, I know) and very high SATs should make them a viable but not necessarily certain candidate for Top schools. Assign whatever number you want, 10-20-50, to "Top". But I believe the last quote to be more today's reality. Without a hook, "top" anything is still a lottery.

Our DC is interested in a direct-admit major (not CS or engr!) and after (surprisingly) much discussion/contact with the program admissions staff (at a rather large OOS U) initiated and favored by DC, they openly stated they compute their own and unweighted GPA of the courses they considered most important to them (which sometimes changes over time).

So we've just told DC to do their best and still enjoy their final year of HS, and we'll let the chips on admissions and/or merit fall where they may. We cannot be full-pay and know some choices may have to be made. However, we believe DC's targets are reasonable (academically and financially) and almost am having to force any sort of application to a "reach". Safeties? Between holistic admissions and yield protection, both of which are understandable -- there aren't many anymore, IMHO.

Good luck to the OP. Keep yourself grounded to support your DC through this process.

These kids are viable, but viable just means they go in the unhooked pile with 1,000 other great applications. They have the chance any other unhooked kid has, but it is not a good one

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With [OP's DC's] profile, no school is out, but top schools are enough of a crap shoot that they shouldn't expect to get in either. There is nothing wrong with shooting their shot at ivy league schools- they have the same odds that any other unhooked kids would have.

Anonymous wrote:A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. ...

Anonymous wrote:This is what people fail to understand. T20 and top SLAC are a huge reach for even high stats kids if you don't meet some sort of institutional priority. And in RD - that extends into T30 and down the SLAC list.

I'm normally not much for multi-quotes -- some related others not -- but I found these thought-provoking and somewhat wrenching.

A near-perfect report card (old term, I know) and very high SATs should make them a viable but not necessarily certain candidate for Top schools. Assign whatever number you want, 10-20-50, to "Top". But I believe the last quote to be more today's reality. Without a hook, "top" anything is still a lottery.

Our DC is interested in a direct-admit major (not CS or engr!) and after (surprisingly) much discussion/contact with the program admissions staff (at a rather large OOS U) initiated and favored by DC, they openly stated they compute their own and unweighted GPA of the courses they considered most important to them (which sometimes changes over time).

So we've just told DC to do their best and still enjoy their final year of HS, and we'll let the chips on admissions and/or merit fall where they may. We cannot be full-pay and know some choices may have to be made. However, we believe DC's targets are reasonable (academically and financially) and almost am having to force any sort of application to a "reach". Safeties? Between holistic admissions and yield protection, both of which are understandable -- there aren't many anymore, IMHO.

Good luck to the OP. Keep yourself grounded to support your DC through this process.

These kids are viable, but viable just means they go in the unhooked pile with 1,000 other great applications. They have the chance any other unhooked kid has, but it is not a good one

More like 10,000s of thousands of great applicants.