Help me figure out which schools are realistic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. A target would be UVa, VaTech, William &Mary or Maryland CP, depending what state you are in. I think T20 will be unrealistic, but there is no harm applying if your dd understands it is an extreme long shot. It’s very hard for girls in particular right now.

A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

You have no clue how common these grades are these days. More than 20 percent of the class will have similar grades.

Do you have any data to back up that claim?

20% of kids will have 1550? BS

NP: I agree that at a typical suburban HS or private school, 20% of students will not have 1550 on the SAT, but the PP is correct that in many schools, up to 40% of students have a 4.0+ (especially at suburban public high schools). However, in the larger applicant pool, there are many more kids than most people realize that apply to highly selective colleges with an SAT score greater than 1500 or a 34+ on the ACT due to superscoring and taking the exam multiple times. During the 2022 admissions cycle, 76,000 kids applied to college with an SAT score of >1500 (including ACT equivalent). Source: Common App report (https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/ca.research.publish/Research_Briefs_2022/2022_12_09_Apps_Per_Applicant_ResearchBrief.pdf)

Wait, unweighted? 40% of the class has straight A's? What are these teachers doing?! There has to be so much coddling and low standards for almost half the class at any school to not even have 1 B or A-.

[Anonymous]

geez... nope

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think ED to Amherst is a reach but doable I

I’m an Amherst alum and after seeing their promotional materials for admit rates for first generation and people of color, I would not encourage any white kid from the northeastern suburbs that is not a recruited athlete or first Gen college to apply. I just don’t see how they can hit the numbers they are aiming for, and fill their sports teams, otherwise. Maybe if you were an Olympian or child actor or coca-cola scholar or something like that.

Amherst is different from swarthmore, Williams, etc. in its level of commitment to diversifying its classes.

This advice is spot-on and could apply to Bowdoin, Williams, Wesleyan, and others. Unless you're a recruited athlete, first gen or something extraordinary, do not get your caucasian child's hopes up.

Let's not forget legacy (most frequently "Caucasian") and donor-admit (yup, usually Caucasian), the biggest preferred categories of all.

+1 Definitely don't get your kids hopes up! Especially if legacy or not URM or an athlete. And forget Northwestern. Don't waste the money on the application fee. Get a new pair of pants or go out to eat or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. A target would be UVa, VaTech, William &Mary or Maryland CP, depending what state you are in. I think T20 will be unrealistic, but there is no harm applying if your dd understands it is an extreme long shot. It’s very hard for girls in particular right now.

A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

You have no clue how common these grades are these days. More than 20 percent of the class will have similar grades.

Do you have any data to back up that claim?

20% of kids will have 1550? BS

NP: I agree that at a typical suburban HS or private school, 20% of students will not have 1550 on the SAT, but the PP is correct that in many schools, up to 40% of students have a 4.0+ (especially at suburban public high schools). However, in the larger applicant pool, there are many more kids than most people realize that apply to highly selective colleges with an SAT score greater than 1500 or a 34+ on the ACT due to superscoring and taking the exam multiple times. During the 2022 admissions cycle, 76,000 kids applied to college with an SAT score of >1500 (including ACT equivalent). Source: Common App report (https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/ca.research.publish/Research_Briefs_2022/2022_12_09_Apps_Per_Applicant_ResearchBrief.pdf)

Per this report, <12% have over 1500, so like 5% or less over 1550. Definitely not 20%, ridiculous statement.

[Anonymous]

Schools generally do not care between a 1520/1530 or 15/50/1580...they just want to see over 1500.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Schools generally do not care between a 1520/1530 or 15/50/1580...they just want to see over 1500.

+1

GPA and course rigor are much better indicators of overall success in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. A target would be UVa, VaTech, William &Mary or Maryland CP, depending what state you are in. I think T20 will be unrealistic, but there is no harm applying if your dd understands it is an extreme long shot. It’s very hard for girls in particular right now.

A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

You have no clue how common these grades are these days. More than 20 percent of the class will have similar grades.

Do you have any data to back up that claim?

NP. I live in California, where public high schools often publish school profiles. Approximately 20% of the classes at many public schools have this grade profile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have two kids who had similar stats and circumstances. Both got into top 15 schools. Both received packages that made it affordable. My two cents as a parent: The GPA and SAT/ACT score is what gets you an initial look. For unhooked kids from the burbs that will be a very high threshold. 3.95 unweighted with APs and a difficult course load plus a 1590 totally meets that threshold. That app will be read

What set my kids apart, I believe, is that both were highly self-motivated and knew what they wanted to do. Their ECs reflected that. Very different interests but both had unique experiences, leadership positions, and national awards. All done on their own. Additionally, they were both athletes and had some good community service projects. I think it's important to somehow reflect that the applicant is a decent, well-rounded individual that plays well with others. Schools are looking for people that will be a plus for the community

Additionally, solid teacher recs. Those recs need to be effusive about how this is a really special student

Also, essays. Cannot stress that enough. Schools like Northwestern are looking at 50,000 applications. The vast majority are going to have absolutely stellar academics. The essay is the one place where a student can be an individual. It really matters. And don't even think about outsourcing or heavily editing the essay. The BS detector of admissions officers is off the charts. They've seen it all. It needs to be authentic. It's so important. You need to make the reader your champion when it gets to committee.

Finally, be strategic. MIT for instance - and I love their admissions process - does not favor early admissions over regular. So don't throw the ED card there. Similarly, Harvard and Stanford. ED makes no sense. It's where they fill their "preferred slots." Middle class white or asian kids from the burbs have no chance there. Go further down the list, find the right match for your child - make sure you visit - and apply early decision where it makes a difference. I've seen suburban kids get into Northwestern. But they were young journalists - editors of the school paper, clips from online or national publications. But that's very specific for Northwestern, which is known for its journalism program. Other schools will have different priorities. But know what they are

It's a lot of hoops for a teenager. And if they're not self-motivated, no one one should push them. Tons of really smart kids are going to the honors program at their state colleges or taking merit elsewhere. Think the value of pedigree degrees will flatline in the years ahead. Would tell all smart kids not to stress

When did your kids get in? This sounds like pre-2021, pre-Covid advice to me.

[Anonymous]

If Amherst was compelling, there are less ultra-selective but still competitive and highly regarded SLACs with name recognition she could think about as targets or at least not entirely "unrealistic"-- Connecticut College, Trinity, Smith, Macalester, Kenyon, William & Mary, Haverford, Skidmore, Dickinson, Denison, Bryn Mawr, Oberlin, Franklin & Marshall, Brandeis. Ithaca, Muhlenberg, Hobart & William Smith, Lafayette maybe closer to a safety. Bigger schools in a Northwestern vein to consider include Rochester, Syracuse, Wisconsin. I do really recommend thinking about historically women's colleges like Bryn Mawr and Smith (and maybe even Mount Holyoke)-- they're not as impossible to get into as they might be if they were co-ed, but the student bodies tend to be highly intellectual, engaged, and curious. Bryn Mawr has a close relationship with Swarthmore and Haverford, and Smith is in the five college consortium with Amherst, so they aren't actually isolated or worlds without men. A bummer that she's not interested in California-- it's easy to love Scripps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. A target would be UVa, VaTech, William &Mary or Maryland CP, depending what state you are in. I think T20 will be unrealistic, but there is no harm applying if your dd understands it is an extreme long shot. It’s very hard for girls in particular right now.

A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

You have no clue how common these grades are these days. More than 20 percent of the class will have similar grades.

Do you have any data to back up that claim?

20% of kids will have 1550? BS

NP: I agree that at a typical suburban HS or private school, 20% of students will not have 1550 on the SAT, but the PP is correct that in many schools, up to 40% of students have a 4.0+ (especially at suburban public high schools). However, in the larger applicant pool, there are many more kids than most people realize that apply to highly selective colleges with an SAT score greater than 1500 or a 34+ on the ACT due to superscoring and taking the exam multiple times. During the 2022 admissions cycle, 76,000 kids applied to college with an SAT score of >1500 (including ACT equivalent). Source: Common App report (https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/ca.research.publish/Research_Briefs_2022/2022_12_09_Apps_Per_Applicant_ResearchBrief.pdf)

Per this report, <12% have over 1500, so like 5% or less over 1550. Definitely not 20%, ridiculous statement.

You are strangely hung up on this. The original point was 20 percent to 40 percent of kids will have similar grades. 76,000 kids will have 1500 plus on SAT. And in the test optional world, schools will still consider the kids with the grades but not the scores. That is exactly why the test optional world has made college admissions so much more competitive and unpredictable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. A target would be UVa, VaTech, William &Mary or Maryland CP, depending what state you are in. I think T20 will be unrealistic, but there is no harm applying if your dd understands it is an extreme long shot. It’s very hard for girls in particular right now.

A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

You have no clue how common these grades are these days. More than 20 percent of the class will have similar grades.

Do you have any data to back up that claim?

20% of kids will have 1550? BS

NP: I agree that at a typical suburban HS or private school, 20% of students will not have 1550 on the SAT, but the PP is correct that in many schools, up to 40% of students have a 4.0+ (especially at suburban public high schools). However, in the larger applicant pool, there are many more kids than most people realize that apply to highly selective colleges with an SAT score greater than 1500 or a 34+ on the ACT due to superscoring and taking the exam multiple times. During the 2022 admissions cycle, 76,000 kids applied to college with an SAT score of >1500 (including ACT equivalent). Source: Common App report (https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/ca.research.publish/Research_Briefs_2022/2022_12_09_Apps_Per_Applicant_ResearchBrief.pdf)

Per this report, <12% have over 1500, so like 5% or less over 1550. Definitely not 20%, ridiculous statement.

You are strangely hung up on this. The original point was 20 percent to 40 percent of kids will have similar grades. 76,000 kids will have 1500 plus on SAT. And in the test optional world, schools will still consider the kids with the grades but not the scores. That is exactly why the test optional world has made college admissions so much more competitive and unpredictable.

NP. I agree with this. Son has similar stats to OP's kid, 4.0 uw, 1550, undecided. Might ED to Northwestern but unsure at this point about an ED2. It's a roll of the dice. Hard to love a school enough to make the ED commitment but not so much that the likely denial is tough to accept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. A target would be UVa, VaTech, William &Mary or Maryland CP, depending what state you are in. I think T20 will be unrealistic, but there is no harm applying if your dd understands it is an extreme long shot. It’s very hard for girls in particular right now.

A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

You have no clue how common these grades are these days. More than 20 percent of the class will have similar grades.

Do you have any data to back up that claim?

NP. I live in California, where public high schools often publish school profiles. Approximately 20% of the classes at many public schools have this grade profile.

Then it should be really easy to provide that data, so far just anecdotes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. A target would be UVa, VaTech, William &Mary or Maryland CP, depending what state you are in. I think T20 will be unrealistic, but there is no harm applying if your dd understands it is an extreme long shot. It’s very hard for girls in particular right now.

A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

You have no clue how common these grades are these days. More than 20 percent of the class will have similar grades.

Do you have any data to back up that claim?

NP. I live in California, where public high schools often publish school profiles. Approximately 20% of the classes at many public schools have this grade profile.

Then it should be really easy to provide that data, so far just anecdotes

Different PP. In our area, the high school School Profiles provide quartile data based on the weighted GPA. Some weight honors, others don't even offer honors, but offer lots of dual enrolllment options, where random electives via DE come with significant GPA bumps. It is much more difficult to guess what % of the class actually has straight As.

Which makes me wonder, what does the admissions officer do with that information. Suppose you have an applicant with a 4.0 uw and, say, 6-9 APs, but their weighted GPA puts them just inside the top quartile. Would the addition of a high test score, mid-1500s like the examples above, move the needle, or no, not in the current test optional scenario?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public school grades have become so inflated it’s really hard to say. A target would be UVa, VaTech, William &Mary or Maryland CP, depending what state you are in. I think T20 will be unrealistic, but there is no harm applying if your dd understands it is an extreme long shot. It’s very hard for girls in particular right now.

A 3.95 UW gpa is near perfect. They have great SATs and ECs with leadership. If T20 is out of reach for this kid, then it's out of reach for any kid.

You have no clue how common these grades are these days. More than 20 percent of the class will have similar grades.

Do you have any data to back up that claim?

NP. I live in California, where public high schools often publish school profiles. Approximately 20% of the classes at many public schools have this grade profile.

Then it should be really easy to provide that data, so far just anecdotes

Different PP here. I don't think 20% of any given California high school has those grades, I would say it is more likely 5%.
We have kids in HS and of the graduating class each year while there are kids going to Brown, Stanford, Yale, Berkeley, UCLA etc there are only about 30% of the total who go to an actual 4 year college, the rest are either going to CC, the military or the workforce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like many said, apply ED if you can afford and don’t mind full pay. We can’t so DC didn’t do ED. Slightly better stats - 4.54 GPA with the most rigorous coursework, varsity athlete, and multiple national awards in different areas. Rejected by 4 ivies and UVA, WL by some and DC didn’t send any LOCI, and accepted by Wesleyan, Denison, WM, and two LAC of WASP. DC had regrets on their strategies/essays/maybe rec letters but is very happy about the results. We honestly don’t know what worked and what didn’t work. Hope this helps in some way.

what is a LAC of WASP?