Negative impact of therapy and "therapy speak"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a therapist, and I think this article is a fantastic indictment of a trend that has bothered me for a long time but which has become especially pervasive during/following the pandemic.

I hesitate to say anything negative about my client population because people on this board lose their sh*t about "judging patients" but the reality is that there are many people who enter a therapy space in a very self-indulgent way and use the skills they learn there to manipulate other people. My sister has done this in the past, and it's been really challenging for our relationship because it's hard for me to have patience with situations like the birthday dinner friend situation described in this article. That could totally have been my sister (the birthday girl OR the friend at various times in her 20s) and it could also have been 7 out of my current 36 active clients as well. That kind of thing happens all the time in my observation. I'm on a break right now, but later today, I have a session later this afternoon with a client whose brother has ghosted their parents with no explanation and left her to explain to them.

Thank you for chiming in. I appreciate a therapist's perspective on all this.

Are there studies you can point to that analyze this phenomenon (people using skills they learn in therapy to manipulate others), or studies that show therapy can be damaging in some cases?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find the whole line of reasoning about what therapy is and does suspicious.

https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html

"But it runs deeper than that. Many members [of online groups for parents estranged from their adult children] truly can't remember what their children said. Anything tinged with negative emotion, anything that makes them feel bad about themselves, shocks them so deeply that they block it out. They really can't remember anything but screaming. This emotional amnesia shapes their entire lives, pushing them to associate only with people who won't criticize them, training their families to shelter them from blows so thoroughly that the softest protest feels like a fist to the face.

But it runs even deeper than that. Posts in estranged parents' forums are vague. Members recount stories with the fewest possible details, the least possible context. They don't recreate entire scenes, repeat entire conversations, give entire text exchanges; they paraphrase hours of conversation away. The only element they describe in detail is their own grief or rage. Nor do the other members press them for more information.

Compare this with the forums for adult children of abusers, where the members not only cut-and-paste email exchanges into their posts, they take photos of handwritten letters and screenshot text conversations. They recreate scenes in detail, and if the details don't add up, the other members question them about it. They get annoyed when a member's paraphrase changes the meaning of a sentence, or when omitted details change the meaning of a meeting. They care about precision, context, and history.

The difference isn't a matter of style, it's a split between two ways of perceiving the world. In one worldview, emotion is king. Details exist to support emotion. If a member gives one set of details to describe how angry she is about a past event, and a few days later gives a contradictory set of details to describe how sad she is about the same event, both versions are legitimate because both emotions are legitimate."

Prince Harry & Meghan Markle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a therapist, and I think this article is a fantastic indictment of a trend that has bothered me for a long time but which has become especially pervasive during/following the pandemic.

I hesitate to say anything negative about my client population because people on this board lose their sh*t about "judging patients" but the reality is that there are many people who enter a therapy space in a very self-indulgent way and use the skills they learn there to manipulate other people. My sister has done this in the past, and it's been really challenging for our relationship because it's hard for me to have patience with situations like the birthday dinner friend situation described in this article. That could totally have been my sister (the birthday girl OR the friend at various times in her 20s) and it could also have been 7 out of my current 36 active clients as well. That kind of thing happens all the time in my observation. I'm on a break right now, but later today, I have a session later this afternoon with a client whose brother has ghosted their parents with no explanation and left her to explain to them.

Thank you for chiming in. I appreciate a therapist's perspective on all this.

Are there studies you can point to that analyze this phenomenon (people using skills they learn in therapy to manipulate others), or studies that show therapy can be damaging in some cases?

It's a troll post. Ethically, if a therapist has this much disdain for a client she/he is bound to make a referral.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have seen four different therapists briefly over the last 4 years. None of them have been particularly helpful. Two of them made things worse. One said she used CBT but our sessions were just her asking me how I am doing and acting perplexed as to why I was there (I guess I wasn't in enough of a crisis?).

A long time ago I did a computerized CBT program. A therapist would call me once a week for 5 minutes to ensure I was on track with it. It was very easy to follow and I did it on my own time. Resolved some very debilitating anxiety I was having. I don't know why these types of programs are not often used.

But FTR - the article referenced doesn't seem to be about therapy itself about about the sort of "self-care" and "boundary-setting" discourse that might be coming from actual therapy but also possibly from social media.

That is part of CBT. You need to get to the root of the problem - she can’t tell you the problem. It’s the same as the beginning of Noom weight loss program where they ask yo it’s find your “ultimate why”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the whole line of reasoning about what therapy is and does suspicious.

https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html

"But it runs deeper than that. Many members [of online groups for parents estranged from their adult children] truly can't remember what their children said. Anything tinged with negative emotion, anything that makes them feel bad about themselves, shocks them so deeply that they block it out. They really can't remember anything but screaming. This emotional amnesia shapes their entire lives, pushing them to associate only with people who won't criticize them, training their families to shelter them from blows so thoroughly that the softest protest feels like a fist to the face.

But it runs even deeper than that. Posts in estranged parents' forums are vague. Members recount stories with the fewest possible details, the least possible context. They don't recreate entire scenes, repeat entire conversations, give entire text exchanges; they paraphrase hours of conversation away. The only element they describe in detail is their own grief or rage. Nor do the other members press them for more information.

Compare this with the forums for adult children of abusers, where the members not only cut-and-paste email exchanges into their posts, they take photos of handwritten letters and screenshot text conversations. They recreate scenes in detail, and if the details don't add up, the other members question them about it. They get annoyed when a member's paraphrase changes the meaning of a sentence, or when omitted details change the meaning of a meeting. They care about precision, context, and history.

The difference isn't a matter of style, it's a split between two ways of perceiving the world. In one worldview, emotion is king. Details exist to support emotion. If a member gives one set of details to describe how angry she is about a past event, and a few days later gives a contradictory set of details to describe how sad she is about the same event, both versions are legitimate because both emotions are legitimate."

Prince Harry & Meghan Markle

Racist White woman Trumper shows up again. FU!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think therapists need to have a little less empathy/validation and a little more practical skills building and critical thought.

Totally agree with this. More than half the time the reason the person is in therapy to begin with is bc they are lacking some basic skills or thought processes needed to thrive. Therapy should be teaching these not validating dysfunction.

Yes, yes, yes! And so many therapists have their own issues, too many are content to encourage victimhood.

This thread seems to be full of strawmen.

It’s not straw men when based on observation and reporting of actual reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous[b wrote:]I have an old friend who is really critical of others and also really sensitive. Things that seem like no big deal to me are really hurtful to her and she will ruminate on them for a long time. She also will “cut people off” if she doesn’t feel sufficiently appreciated, reciprocated, etc. She is single and in her late 40s now and has been an avid therapy goer since her 20s. She often uses language her therapist gives her to justify pushing people away or cutting them off - or she will describe an event and before I even react, she adds that her therapist agrees with her. [/b]

It makes me sad for her because I feel like her therapist has coached and encourage her to push people away under the guise of “protecting herself from toxic people” - which just makes her more dependent on the therapist. I think she is genuinely hurting so I don’t want to say she’s overly sensitive or overreacting - but it seems like she’s spent decades with therapists who tell her what she wants to hear and support her avoiding anything difficult instead of learning how to advocate for herself and work towards positive relationships. When a therapist eventually does get to a point of asking her to do something hard, she leaves and finds another therapist and starts the cycle all over.

A lot of what you write here sounds like my sister. She has a pattern of becoming very close with people (church friends, roommates, family members), and during the close periods she spends lots of time with them, and then after a year or so she turns against them and decides they've been "grooming her" or that they're "toxic." She's in her early forties and despite wanting to get married and have children, she never gives anyone a real chance (cuts off potentially good relationships early) or obsesses about people who are unavailable. She has been going to therapy for a long time, and in recent years has started going several times a week. In my opinion, it has caused her to overly self analyze and to constantly position herself as the victim, and to be overly critical of others. I think she is fundamentally afraid of being rejected, and therapy has given her the tools to cut people off as an act of "self love."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a therapist, and I think this article is a fantastic indictment of a trend that has bothered me for a long time but which has become especially pervasive during/following the pandemic.

I hesitate to say anything negative about my client population because people on this board lose their sh*t about "judging patients" but the reality is that there are many people who enter a therapy space in a very self-indulgent way and use the skills they learn there to manipulate other people. My sister has done this in the past, and it's been really challenging for our relationship because it's hard for me to have patience with situations like the birthday dinner friend situation described in this article. That could totally have been my sister (the birthday girl OR the friend at various times in her 20s) and it could also have been 7 out of my current 36 active clients as well. That kind of thing happens all the time in my observation. I'm on a break right now, but later today, I have a session later this afternoon with a client whose brother has ghosted their parents with no explanation and left her to explain to them.

Thank you for chiming in. I appreciate a therapist's perspective on all this.

Are there studies you can point to that analyze this phenomenon (people using skills they learn in therapy to manipulate others), or studies that show therapy can be damaging in some cases?

It's a troll post. Ethically, if a therapist has this much disdain for a client she/he is bound to make a referral.

I think you are misreading the therapist's comment. The therapist mentions that one of their clients is dealing with a brother who ghosted their parents. And they're talking about something they've observed in the population in general.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think therapists need to have a little less empathy/validation and a little more practical skills building and critical thought.

Totally agree with this. More than half the time the reason the person is in therapy to begin with is bc they are lacking some basic skills or thought processes needed to thrive. Therapy should be teaching these not validating dysfunction.

Yes, yes, yes! And so many therapists have their own issues, too many are content to encourage victimhood.

This thread seems to be full of strawmen.

It’s not straw men when based on observation and reporting of actual reality.

Ok, then. I question using a very sample size to make some sweeping generalizations. How do we know you are not the problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen four different therapists briefly over the last 4 years. None of them have been particularly helpful. Two of them made things worse. One said she used CBT but our sessions were just her asking me how I am doing and acting perplexed as to why I was there (I guess I wasn't in enough of a crisis?).

A long time ago I did a computerized CBT program. A therapist would call me once a week for 5 minutes to ensure I was on track with it. It was very easy to follow and I did it on my own time. Resolved some very debilitating anxiety I was having. I don't know why these types of programs are not often used.

But FTR - the article referenced doesn't seem to be about therapy itself about about the sort of "self-care" and "boundary-setting" discourse that might be coming from actual therapy but also possibly from social media.

That is part of CBT. You need to get to the root of the problem - she can’t tell you the problem. It’s the same as the beginning of Noom weight loss program where they ask yo it’s find your “ultimate why”.

What is part of CBT? Asking how I am doing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just read Us by Terrence Real which was pretty interesting. Of relevance here, one of the things he says is that therapists are designed to help clients address inferiority issues but rarely take on superiority issues, which also cause lots of problems. I also thought his comments about providing a better emotional inheritance for our kids are interesting

I read the book too and I appreciate how his goal is to fix the issue and end therapy. The prevalence of superiority personality problems was enlightening for me and how that it’s usually harder to address with women clients.

[Anonymous]

I’ve long contended that most of the people I know who go to therapy come out worse. I think there are legitimately some people who do benefit, but the people I know have come out navel gazing and selfish—all take and no give.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I think the negative impact of therapy is mostly on those who benefited from people not getting help. I strongly suspect the people who finally set boundaries are enjoying their lives more and those who are hurt and furious with the boundaries benefited greatly before that person had the nerve to get therapy.

This reminds me of how any time I told my mom she was being hurtful she would say "you are sooooo sensitive. Why don't you get therapy and learn to deal!" When I finally said "actually I started therapy" she flew into a rage, insisted I give her the person's number so she could tell her side of the story and she obsessively asked me about it and needed to know exactly what I said to the therapist and what the therapist said back. I declined.

I also learned to set far more boundaries with her. It was incredibly helpful in dealing with many stressors. She would tell you it was the biggest mistake I ever made in my life. A friend of hers had been drifting away and after therapy ghosted her completely she is convinced there are all these deranged therapists telling people to stay away from her and targeting her.

This X10000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]I have an old friend who is really critical of others and also really sensitive. Things that seem like no big deal to me are really hurtful to her and she will ruminate on them for a long time. She also will “cut people off” if she doesn’t feel sufficiently appreciated, reciprocated, etc. She is single and in her late 40s now and has been an avid therapy goer since her 20s. She often uses language her therapist gives her to justify pushing people away or cutting them off - or she will describe an event and before I even react, she adds that her therapist agrees with her. [/b]

It makes me sad for her because I feel like her therapist has coached and encourage her to push people away under the guise of “protecting herself from toxic people” - which just makes her more dependent on the therapist. I think she is genuinely hurting so I don’t want to say she’s overly sensitive or overreacting - but it seems like she’s spent decades with therapists who tell her what she wants to hear and support her avoiding anything difficult instead of learning how to advocate for herself and work towards positive relationships. When a therapist eventually does get to a point of asking her to do something hard, she leaves and finds another therapist and starts the cycle all over.

A lot of what you write here sounds like my sister. She has a pattern of becoming very close with people (church friends, roommates, family members), and during the close periods she spends lots of time with them, and then after a year or so she turns against them and decides they've been "grooming her" or that they're "toxic." She's in her early forties and despite wanting to get married and have children, she never gives anyone a real chance (cuts off potentially good relationships early) or obsesses about people who are unavailable. She has been going to therapy for a long time, and in recent years has started going several times a week. In my opinion, it has caused her to overly self analyze and to constantly position herself as the victim, and to be overly critical of others. I think she is fundamentally afraid of being rejected, and therapy has given her the tools to cut people off as an act of "self love."

Sounds like a lucrative gig for her therapist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve long contended that most of the people I know who go to therapy come out worse. I think there are legitimately some people who do benefit, but the people I know have come out navel gazing and selfish—all take and no give.

Worse for others better for themselves.