Do girls really have an admissions advantage for engineering schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They offer engineering classes in high school?

At magent schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any stats to back up this view?

I know CMU admits a greater percentage of women than men; the disparity is greater than average.

This is true of MIT but it’s not because they’re less selective with women; the female applicant pool is stronger over all so a higher percentage of them end up being admitted.

Fewer women apply, and if they want even classes, a greater percentage will be admitted.

Yes, but the fewer women who apply have better stats than the men on average. So even if MIT (I use this as a example because the admissions office has been up front about these facts for years) didn’t look at the gender of incoming candidates when reviewing applications they’d still get a pretty well balanced class because the female applicants self select and the male ones don’t. So it’s not “easier” to get into MIT as a woman, even if a higher percentage of the women who apply are accepted.

+1000 This!

Women interested in STEM fields often undersell their abilities and don't apply to as many top schools as they are actually qualified for. Many men overestimate their abilities and apply to many more top schools. So the female applicant pool is smaller and already self-selected towards the strongest students, whereas the male applicant pool is much larger and just has more less qualified students. MIT has outreach programs to underrepresented high school students like https://mites.mit.edu/ and https://web.mit.edu/wtp/ to get strong high school students onto the campus and able to see themselves at MIT, so that they will apply. Even with active outreach, they still don't have parity.

All this is fine but the answer to OP's question is "Yes, girls really do have an admissions advantage for engineering schools." Common datasets for every school has enough data to prove this out. Virginia Tech has a fancy page that shows this as well. Don't know why we have to put up with 2 pages of denial and spin when the answer is pretty clear to a simple, straightforward question!

Where are these data sets, broken down by applicant scores and personal demographic?

Google "Common Dataset <University Name>"; Research each university's website for details by department. For example (as I pointed out earlier), Virginia Tech posts stats broken down by race, gender, generation, etc. for each department. Some others do that too (for you to find at the schools you care about). Now get off your lazy ass and do some research rather than asking others to. I'm in the business of teaching people how to fish, not...

As far as I can tell
https://udc.vt.edu/irdata/data/students/admission/index#college

Does not show admission broken down by SAT scores or GPA combined with gender.

Are you eating rotten fish?

SAT and GPA are not relevant. That info. is available only at the school level. Unless you are dense, the page you visited should clearly show that the acceptance rate is higher for women relative to men.

SAT and GPA are not relevant to admission?

Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, and it's a good way to game the system. DS & his gf wanted to go to the same school. She applied as an engineering student & was accepted even though her stats weren't as good as DS'. She switched majors after first semester to what she really wanted.

For similar stars, my DD had significant advantage when it came to engineering admissions. There are only 15% girls who qualify for AIME. For a girl having AIME is a huge advantage but for boys it does not mean much. For Math, Comp Sc and Engineering it is much tougher for boys to get into top places but the girls who get in are good but would have had a tougher time getting in if they were boys. Only place girls don't have an advantage is in biological sciences and related engineering fields. After going through the process, my son advised his sister (few years younger) to apply for mechanical engineering and coached her to get to AIME. She had a far better outcome than him.

My DD was a TJ grad, 4X AIME qualifier, > 4.5 GPA as of Junior year, 1590 SAT, had taken advanced math (mulitivar, linear, diff eq) & CS (artificial intl, machine learning) courses. She did not get into CMU or cornell or princeton for Computer Science. She was not the only one, a couple of her friends too were in the same boat. All I can say is, it does not help being a girl in elite schools for competitive majors. Some may game the system (both girls & boys) by applying to less popular major, gain admission and then change. But you cannot generalize this to girls having preferential treatment in ALL of engg schools.

Did she end up at a state university or private college?

State university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They offer engineering classes in high school?

At magent schools

Some non-magnet MCPS schools offer the Project Lead the Way engineering pathway. My kid took 6 engineering classes, starting in 8th grade, by the time graduated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, and it's a good way to game the system. DS & his gf wanted to go to the same school. She applied as an engineering student & was accepted even though her stats weren't as good as DS'. She switched majors after first semester to what she really wanted.

I am 100% sure the school that admitted your DS's gf is not one of the top engg schools. In top engg schools, there is no real advantage of being a girl.

This is not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, and it's a good way to game the system. DS & his gf wanted to go to the same school. She applied as an engineering student & was accepted even though her stats weren't as good as DS'. She switched majors after first semester to what she really wanted.

For similar stars, my DD had significant advantage when it came to engineering admissions. There are only 15% girls who qualify for AIME. For a girl having AIME is a huge advantage but for boys it does not mean much. For Math, Comp Sc and Engineering it is much tougher for boys to get into top places but the girls who get in are good but would have had a tougher time getting in if they were boys. Only place girls don't have an advantage is in biological sciences and related engineering fields. After going through the process, my son advised his sister (few years younger) to apply for mechanical engineering and coached her to get to AIME. She had a far better outcome than him.

My DD was a TJ grad, 4X AIME qualifier, > 4.5 GPA as of Junior year, 1590 SAT, had taken advanced math (mulitivar, linear, diff eq) & CS (artificial intl, machine learning) courses. She did not get into CMU or cornell or princeton for Computer Science. She was not the only one, a couple of her friends too were in the same boat. All I can say is, it does not help being a girl in elite schools for competitive majors. Some may game the system (both girls & boys) by applying to less popular major, gain admission and then change. But you cannot generalize this to girls having preferential treatment in ALL of engg schools.

Lol. Sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. DS is pretty bummed he has less of a chance than a woman with the same stats.

You & your DS keep saying he has less of a chance than a woman with the same stats while the other boys crush him. The fact is your DS could not compete with other boys. Just admit it. Admissions is not 20:80 male:female.. it is atleast 60:40 favoring more boys.

Keep saying? I've only posted once. He's got a 4.3/34/1490, and yet a girl with lessor/same stats will get the slot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. DS is pretty bummed he has less of a chance than a woman with the same stats.

You & your DS keep saying he has less of a chance than a woman with the same stats while the other boys crush him. The fact is your DS could not compete with other boys. Just admit it. Admissions is not 20:80 male:female.. it is atleast 60:40 favoring more boys.

Keep saying? I've only posted once. He's got a 4.3/34/1490, and yet a girl with lessor/same stats will get the slot.

Or a guy with good scores, lower gpa, and glowing recs. There’s still the stereotype of guys who are too smart to bothered with assignments. Regardless, if multiple posters have a kid identical to yours being passed over, kind of sounds like a simple lottery, no one to blame. -DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. DS is pretty bummed he has less of a chance than a woman with the same stats.

You & your DS keep saying he has less of a chance than a woman with the same stats while the other boys crush him. The fact is your DS could not compete with other boys. Just admit it. Admissions is not 20:80 male:female.. it is atleast 60:40 favoring more boys.

Keep saying? I've only posted once. He's got a 4.3/34/1490, and yet a girl with lessor/same stats will get the slot.

Or my DD who has a 4.8 and a 1570. Sorry, his stats aren’t that great and that’s why he isn’t going to get into a top program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, and it's a good way to game the system. DS & his gf wanted to go to the same school. She applied as an engineering student & was accepted even though her stats weren't as good as DS'. She switched majors after first semester to what she really wanted.

For similar stars, my DD had significant advantage when it came to engineering admissions. There are only 15% girls who qualify for AIME. For a girl having AIME is a huge advantage but for boys it does not mean much. For Math, Comp Sc and Engineering it is much tougher for boys to get into top places but the girls who get in are good but would have had a tougher time getting in if they were boys. Only place girls don't have an advantage is in biological sciences and related engineering fields. After going through the process, my son advised his sister (few years younger) to apply for mechanical engineering and coached her to get to AIME. She had a far better outcome than him.

My DD was a TJ grad, 4X AIME qualifier, > 4.5 GPA as of Junior year, 1590 SAT, had taken advanced math (mulitivar, linear, diff eq) & CS (artificial intl, machine learning) courses. She did not get into CMU or cornell or princeton for Computer Science. She was not the only one, a couple of her friends too were in the same boat. All I can say is, it does not help being a girl in elite schools for competitive majors. Some may game the system (both girls & boys) by applying to less popular major, gain admission and then change. But you cannot generalize this to girls having preferential treatment in ALL of engg schools.

Lol. Sure.

I don't care whether you believe it or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. DS is pretty bummed he has less of a chance than a woman with the same stats.

You & your DS keep saying he has less of a chance than a woman with the same stats while the other boys crush him. The fact is your DS could not compete with other boys. Just admit it. Admissions is not 20:80 male:female.. it is atleast 60:40 favoring more boys.

Keep saying? I've only posted once. He's got a 4.3/34/1490, and yet a girl with lessor/same stats will get the slot.

Why would you think that? Perhaps even though fewer girls apply overall, more girls applying are better candidates. Mine has 4.7/35, professional performance credits (union status), art portfolios and international awards in engineering. Engineering needs diverse perspectives in order to grow as a field.

Stop trying to denigrate someone else. Most programs don't come clise to even representation of male/female ). Many have maybe 25% female (even though the college may be more balanced overall). So, these young women are not taking your kid's spot with "lesser" stats. Stop that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. DS is pretty bummed he has less of a chance than a woman with the same stats.

You & your DS keep saying he has less of a chance than a woman with the same stats while the other boys crush him. The fact is your DS could not compete with other boys. Just admit it. Admissions is not 20:80 male:female.. it is atleast 60:40 favoring more boys.

Keep saying? I've only posted once. He's got a 4.3/34/1490, and yet a girl with lessor/same stats will get the slot.

Why would you think that? Perhaps even though fewer girls apply overall, more girls applying are better candidates. Mine has 4.7/35, professional performance credits (union status), art portfolios and international awards in engineering. Engineering needs diverse perspectives in order to grow as a field.

Stop trying to denigrate someone else. Most programs don't come clise to even representation of male/female ). Many have maybe 25% female (even though the college may be more balanced overall). So, these young women are not taking your kid's spot with "lesser" stats. Stop that.

I completely agree. More and more girls are into STEM now-a-days and doing very well. So, it's not girls taking away the "spots" from boys, rather earning their own "spots".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assume gender won't be able to be considered when the Supreme Court overturns affirmative action this summer?

I have wondered about this too. William & Mary accepts 42% of men and 33% of women, VT accepts 53% of men and 60% of women. Those are noticeable differences. If they are equal, classes will be especially skewed.

But are their qualifications different?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. DS is pretty bummed he has less of a chance than a woman with the same stats.

You & your DS keep saying he has less of a chance than a woman with the same stats while the other boys crush him. The fact is your DS could not compete with other boys. Just admit it. Admissions is not 20:80 male:female.. it is atleast 60:40 favoring more boys.

Keep saying? I've only posted once. He's got a 4.3/34/1490, and yet a girl with lessor/same stats will get the slot.

There is nothing stopping him from applying as someone who identifies as a girl.

Also, he should get used to the competition, women are everwhere these days - in the workplace, graduate school, etc. Maybe your son can use his incredible engineering skills to invent a time machine and travel back to the 1800s. All the spots in colleges were for men in those days.