Do girls really have an admissions advantage for engineering schools?

[Anonymous]

If a girl has not taken engineering classes in high school, will that be a hurdle in college admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If a girl has not taken engineering classes in high school, will that be a hurdle in college admissions?

If it is offered at her HS, then yes. A girl can’t just apply for engineering and expect a bump. Colleges see right through that. She needs to actually demonstrate an interest and take the most rigorous math and science classes and engineering classes if offered. She should have outside activities that align with her supposed interest in engineering.
My DD got into a top engineering school. Did she get a bump? I don’t know, maybe. But she also had an unweighted 4.0 in the most rigorous classes across the board. SAT was in the high 1500s and she had extracurricular activities that matched her interest in engineering. She was just as competitive an applicant as anyone applying. I’m sure being a girl helped with admissions. But if she hadn’t had the stats and credentials I’m sure she would not have been admitted to a top program.

[Anonymous]

They offer engineering classes in high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If a girl has not taken engineering classes in high school, will that be a hurdle in college admissions?

If it is offered at her HS, then yes. A girl can’t just apply for engineering and expect a bump. Colleges see right through that. She needs to actually demonstrate an interest and take the most rigorous math and science classes and engineering classes if offered. She should have outside activities that align with her supposed interest in engineering.
My DD got into a top engineering school. Did she get a bump? I don’t know, maybe. But she also had an unweighted 4.0 in the most rigorous classes across the board. SAT was in the high 1500s and she had extracurricular activities that matched her interest in engineering. She was just as competitive an applicant as anyone applying. I’m sure being a girl helped with admissions. But if she hadn’t had the stats and credentials I’m sure she would not have been admitted to a top program.

This is what got her in, and this is what should get anyone in regardless of race or sex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My URM girl applied to Berkeley Engineering and was rejected despite 4.0 gpa and high rigor (AP Physics I and 2), AP Calc BC... She got 34 on ACT but couldn't submit the score since they are test blind. She did get into her top choice so it didn't matter anyway...

Berkeley does not consider race and the engineering program is not meant to be balanced for male/female either. There are many girls who have much stronger stats with Physics C and multi variable calculus who get rejected so while your dd is strong, her rejection is not that surprising. She probably got into the top school because of race and gender balancing.

Your assumption that she got into her top school because of race and gender balancing proves the point that even though AA will be "eliminated", for some people, URMs will still be seen as admitted because of their race/gender. I read a story recently about an African American girl student at Berkeley who said people on campus told her this despite affirmative action being banned for the past 20+ years. My kid had top stats plus national awards in her activities and off the chart extracurriculars and recommendations to go along with the 4.0 GPA and 99th percentile ACT score (she took it only once) and yet you attribute her acceptance to the "top school" due to race/gender... The more things change, the more they stay the same....

DP. Don't get all defensive and coy about this. If a policy showing preferential treatment exists, the vast majority of people out there will assume that everyone who looks like the group getting such treatment, got it.. for a variety of reasons. You can't have the preference and not have the stigma. They go together. Don't want the stigma, work to get rid of the preferential treatment. If not, learn to deal with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My URM girl applied to Berkeley Engineering and was rejected despite 4.0 gpa and high rigor (AP Physics I and 2), AP Calc BC... She got 34 on ACT but couldn't submit the score since they are test blind. She did get into her top choice so it didn't matter anyway...

Berkeley does not consider race and the engineering program is not meant to be balanced for male/female either. There are many girls who have much stronger stats with Physics C and multi variable calculus who get rejected so while your dd is strong, her rejection is not that surprising. She probably got into the top school because of race and gender balancing.

Your assumption that she got into her top school because of race and gender balancing proves the point that even though AA will be "eliminated", for some people, URMs will still be seen as admitted because of their race/gender. I read a story recently about an African American girl student at Berkeley who said people on campus told her this despite affirmative action being banned for the past 20+ years. My kid had top stats plus national awards in her activities and off the chart extracurriculars and recommendations to go along with the 4.0 GPA and 99th percentile ACT score (she took it only once) and yet you attribute her acceptance to the "top school" due to race/gender... The more things change, the more they stay the same....

It's not just me assuming, it is a fact. Your DD may be deserving but so were many other girls. What tipped the admission in her favor was race. The Supreme Court case showed that URM had much higher chances than Asians with higher stats. With the race advantage in admissions, people will always wonder about why a URM person got in. BTW, my DC is at Berkeley and 25% is Hispanic and they said in general people don't assume that URMs got in because of AA. Also, my DC had excellent stats with national awards as well but was waitlisted at many top STEM schools. Thank God for CA's race blind admissions they got into all UCs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My URM girl applied to Berkeley Engineering and was rejected despite 4.0 gpa and high rigor (AP Physics I and 2), AP Calc BC... She got 34 on ACT but couldn't submit the score since they are test blind. She did get into her top choice so it didn't matter anyway...

Berkeley does not consider race and the engineering program is not meant to be balanced for male/female either. There are many girls who have much stronger stats with Physics C and multi variable calculus who get rejected so while your dd is strong, her rejection is not that surprising. She probably got into the top school because of race and gender balancing.

Your assumption that she got into her top school because of race and gender balancing proves the point that even though AA will be "eliminated", for some people, URMs will still be seen as admitted because of their race/gender. I read a story recently about an African American girl student at Berkeley who said people on campus told her this despite affirmative action being banned for the past 20+ years. My kid had top stats plus national awards in her activities and off the chart extracurriculars and recommendations to go along with the 4.0 GPA and 99th percentile ACT score (she took it only once) and yet you attribute her acceptance to the "top school" due to race/gender... The more things change, the more they stay the same....

DP. Don't get all defensive and coy about this. If a policy showing preferential treatment exists, the vast majority of people out there will assume that everyone who looks like the group getting such treatment, got it.. for a variety of reasons. You can't have the preference and not have the stigma. They go together. Don't want the stigma, work to get rid of the preferential treatment. If not, learn to deal with it.

Girls are not getting any preferential treatment. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My URM girl applied to Berkeley Engineering and was rejected despite 4.0 gpa and high rigor (AP Physics I and 2), AP Calc BC... She got 34 on ACT but couldn't submit the score since they are test blind. She did get into her top choice so it didn't matter anyway...

Berkeley does not consider race and the engineering program is not meant to be balanced for male/female either. There are many girls who have much stronger stats with Physics C and multi variable calculus who get rejected so while your dd is strong, her rejection is not that surprising. She probably got into the top school because of race and gender balancing.

Your assumption that she got into her top school because of race and gender balancing proves the point that even though AA will be "eliminated", for some people, URMs will still be seen as admitted because of their race/gender. I read a story recently about an African American girl student at Berkeley who said people on campus told her this despite affirmative action being banned for the past 20+ years. My kid had top stats plus national awards in her activities and off the chart extracurriculars and recommendations to go along with the 4.0 GPA and 99th percentile ACT score (she took it only once) and yet you attribute her acceptance to the "top school" due to race/gender... The more things change, the more they stay the same....

DP. Don't get all defensive and coy about this. If a policy showing preferential treatment exists, the vast majority of people out there will assume that everyone who looks like the group getting such treatment, got it.. for a variety of reasons. You can't have the preference and not have the stigma. They go together. Don't want the stigma, work to get rid of the preferential treatment. If not, learn to deal with it.

Girls are not getting any preferential treatment. Period.

Good news is, you are not alone with your delusions. Some people believe Trump won the election!

[Anonymous]

What sort of math sat score is recommended for anyone wanting to pursue an engineering degree?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My URM girl applied to Berkeley Engineering and was rejected despite 4.0 gpa and high rigor (AP Physics I and 2), AP Calc BC... She got 34 on ACT but couldn't submit the score since they are test blind. She did get into her top choice so it didn't matter anyway...

Berkeley does not consider race and the engineering program is not meant to be balanced for male/female either. There are many girls who have much stronger stats with Physics C and multi variable calculus who get rejected so while your dd is strong, her rejection is not that surprising. She probably got into the top school because of race and gender balancing.

Your assumption that she got into her top school because of race and gender balancing proves the point that even though AA will be "eliminated", for some people, URMs will still be seen as admitted because of their race/gender. I read a story recently about an African American girl student at Berkeley who said people on campus told her this despite affirmative action being banned for the past 20+ years. My kid had top stats plus national awards in her activities and off the chart extracurriculars and recommendations to go along with the 4.0 GPA and 99th percentile ACT score (she took it only once) and yet you attribute her acceptance to the "top school" due to race/gender... The more things change, the more they stay the same....

DP. Don't get all defensive and coy about this. If a policy showing preferential treatment exists, the vast majority of people out there will assume that everyone who looks like the group getting such treatment, got it.. for a variety of reasons. You can't have the preference and not have the stigma. They go together. Don't want the stigma, work to get rid of the preferential treatment. If not, learn to deal with it.

Girls are not getting any preferential treatment. Period.

Good news is, you are not alone with your delusions. Some people believe Trump won the election!

There is another thread in DCUM: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1139942.page
Girls may be having a slight advantage in Engg schools just like boys have in SLAC. But that is NOT significant enough to term it as "preferential treatment".
Girls do like math & science and excel at it, and the numbers are only growing as parents/society started to support/accept them. They earn their admissions to top engg schools just like the boys. I really hope you don't have daughters of your own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My URM girl applied to Berkeley Engineering and was rejected despite 4.0 gpa and high rigor (AP Physics I and 2), AP Calc BC... She got 34 on ACT but couldn't submit the score since they are test blind. She did get into her top choice so it didn't matter anyway...

Berkeley does not consider race and the engineering program is not meant to be balanced for male/female either. There are many girls who have much stronger stats with Physics C and multi variable calculus who get rejected so while your dd is strong, her rejection is not that surprising. She probably got into the top school because of race and gender balancing.

Your assumption that she got into her top school because of race and gender balancing proves the point that even though AA will be "eliminated", for some people, URMs will still be seen as admitted because of their race/gender. I read a story recently about an African American girl student at Berkeley who said people on campus told her this despite affirmative action being banned for the past 20+ years. My kid had top stats plus national awards in her activities and off the chart extracurriculars and recommendations to go along with the 4.0 GPA and 99th percentile ACT score (she took it only once) and yet you attribute her acceptance to the "top school" due to race/gender... The more things change, the more they stay the same....

DP. Don't get all defensive and coy about this. If a policy showing preferential treatment exists, the vast majority of people out there will assume that everyone who looks like the group getting such treatment, got it.. for a variety of reasons. You can't have the preference and not have the stigma. They go together. Don't want the stigma, work to get rid of the preferential treatment. If not, learn to deal with it.

It is interesting however that the stigma only applies when the preference is for race. When it comes to all other preferences, athletes, donor kids, legacies, children of faculty/staff, etc., no one seems to be stigmatized. Being a URM on campus is harder to hide so that doesn't help...

[Anonymous]

Do schools come out and say that they seek gender balance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My URM girl applied to Berkeley Engineering and was rejected despite 4.0 gpa and high rigor (AP Physics I and 2), AP Calc BC... She got 34 on ACT but couldn't submit the score since they are test blind. She did get into her top choice so it didn't matter anyway...

Berkeley does not consider race and the engineering program is not meant to be balanced for male/female either. There are many girls who have much stronger stats with Physics C and multi variable calculus who get rejected so while your dd is strong, her rejection is not that surprising. She probably got into the top school because of race and gender balancing.

Your assumption that she got into her top school because of race and gender balancing proves the point that even though AA will be "eliminated", for some people, URMs will still be seen as admitted because of their race/gender. I read a story recently about an African American girl student at Berkeley who said people on campus told her this despite affirmative action being banned for the past 20+ years. My kid had top stats plus national awards in her activities and off the chart extracurriculars and recommendations to go along with the 4.0 GPA and 99th percentile ACT score (she took it only once) and yet you attribute her acceptance to the "top school" due to race/gender... The more things change, the more they stay the same....

DP. Don't get all defensive and coy about this. If a policy showing preferential treatment exists, the vast majority of people out there will assume that everyone who looks like the group getting such treatment, got it.. for a variety of reasons. You can't have the preference and not have the stigma. They go together. Don't want the stigma, work to get rid of the preferential treatment. If not, learn to deal with it.

Girls are not getting any preferential treatment. Period.

Good news is, you are not alone with your delusions. Some people believe Trump won the election!

There is another thread in DCUM: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1139942.page
Girls may be having a slight advantage in Engg schools just like boys have in SLAC. But that is NOT significant enough to term it as "preferential treatment".
Girls do like math & science and excel at it, and the numbers are only growing as parents/society started to support/accept them. They earn their admissions to top engg schools just like the boys. I really hope you don't have daughters of your own.

Obviously the PP doesn't have any daughters or (s)he is raising the daughter to be a stereotypical one..girls cannot be good at math blah blah advice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do schools come out and say that they seek gender balance?

Yes, plenty of mostly STEM/Engineering schools (think WPI, RPI, Colorado school of mines etc) actively state they are working to balance male/female. They are not admitting "lower level females" to do this. They are admitting top female students, and often offering them additional merit in hopes of getting them to matriculate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any stats to back up this view?

I know CMU admits a greater percentage of women than men; the disparity is greater than average.

That doesn't mean the girls have an admissions advantage. It can mean that girls who apply to engineering are on average more qualified than boys - which would make sense and be in line with all of the issues surrounding girls considering STEM fields in high school, even now.
Your average girl applying CMU would be able to explain those statistics to you.