SUNY schools — why aren’t they as popular as other OOS schools

[Anonymous]

People complain about the winters in upstate NY but it's not like the winters in the rest of the Northeast, upper Midwest, Great Plains or Pacific Northwest are much (if any) better. If you don't like the cold, apply only to schools in the south or Hawaii, Texas, SoCal. Simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about SUNY Albany? I grew up in NY and remember that as the sort of flagship. Is it still? See no mention of it.

I went there for a year and transferred. I don’t remember it as a flagship. It wasn’t for me. It was all kids from Long Island and not near downtown Albany, which mattered to me at the time since I didn’t have a car. I didn’t like the campus and took the bus around the city, only to find out I didn’t like the city of Albany. I didn’t mind going to school with the LI crowd but it’s really all I met. I was from northern NY.

[Anonymous]

And another negative is that as a consequence of those things, the student body is overwhelmingly NY state residents. That's true of most public schools of course, but there is a big difference between a place like Pitt, that is about 35% out of state, vs a place like SUNY Binghamton, where 95% of students are from NY. And that percentage is even lower at other SUNY schools. No geographic diversity at all.

No. At Binghamton, 82% of the students are from NY state. At Buffalo, 84% of the students are from NY state. At Stony Brook, 79% of the students are from NY state.

If you make numbers up and present them as facts, it's the same as lying.

And of course, even the correct numbers are misleading, because NY is a large state of over 20 million people (larger than all of New England combined, or all the Rocky Mountain states combined, or all the Great Plains states combined) and is also notably more varied and diverse than many other states. Only on DCUM is pulling in more UMC kids from more suburbs considered "diversity."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And another negative is that as a consequence of those things, the student body is overwhelmingly NY state residents. That's true of most public schools of course, but there is a big difference between a place like Pitt, that is about 35% out of state, vs a place like SUNY Binghamton, where 95% of students are from NY. And that percentage is even lower at other SUNY schools. No geographic diversity at all.

No. At Binghamton, 82% of the students are from NY state. At Buffalo, 84% of the students are from NY state. At Stony Brook, 79% of the students are from NY state.

If you make numbers up and present them as facts, it's the same as lying.

And of course, even the correct numbers are misleading, because NY is a large state of over 20 million people (larger than all of New England combined, or all the Rocky Mountain states combined, or all the Great Plains states combined) and is also notably more varied and diverse than many other states. Only on DCUM is pulling in more UMC kids from more suburbs considered "diversity."

Strong words, backed up by nonsense numbers. Per Bing's CDS -- chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.binghamton.edu/offices/oir/upload_data/cds_2021_2022.pdf -- only 7% of undergrads are OOS. I haven't checked the other CDSes, but anyone who wants to can find actual data in them (in F1)...

[Anonymous]

CUNY schools are a good value too. Baruch, Hunter, John Jay, etc.

FIT is probably the best value in the entire NYS public college system. NYU, Parsons, etc. will charge you 3x for a lesser education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I have always wondered about this too. They are a great value, even for out-of-state residents. Weather might be a factor, but plenty of people from the DMV choose SLACs and some out-of-state publics in cold climates.

But those schools generally have better academic reputations ... I mean you could equally ask why more DMV students aren't going to Penn State's regional campuses. The answer is because they don't want to and have better options.

The ignorance of some DCUM commenters -- and their insistence on advertising it -- is breathtaking.

On US News' list of National Universities, SUNY/Stony Brook ranks #77 (tie); SUNY/Binghamton ranks #83; and SUNY/Buffalo ranks #89 (tie).

That's equal to, or higher ranked than, several nearby OOS schools that get exhaustive interest and discussion on DCUM -- Penn State (#77- tie), Delaware (#89) or Temple (#121)

Those SUNY flagships are also higher ranked than several out of area OOS schools that frequently surface on DCUM -- Colorado/Boulder (#97), Arizona State (#121 - tie), and UVM (#121 - tie).

They're signficantly higher ranked than the southern universities and flagships that some trolls keep trying to push here -- Auburn (#97), South Carolina (#115), and Alabama (#137).

The SUNY flagships have stronger reputations than a lot of the schools that get talked up here on DCUM. That says a lot more about DCUM commenters, and their low information, and their priorities, than it does about the SUNY system.

[Anonymous]

Strong words, backed up by nonsense numbers. Per Bing's CDS -- chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.binghamton.edu/offices/oir/upload_data/cds_2021_2022.pdf -- only 7% of undergrads are OOS. I haven't checked the other CDSes, but anyone who wants to can find actual data in them (in F1)...

Here's a clue, rocket scientist -- international students aren't from New York State either.

https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/suny-at-binghamton/student-life/diversity/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Strong words, backed up by nonsense numbers. Per Bing's CDS -- chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.binghamton.edu/offices/oir/upload_data/cds_2021_2022.pdf -- only 7% of undergrads are OOS. I haven't checked the other CDSes, but anyone who wants to can find actual data in them (in F1)...

Here's a clue, rocket scientist -- international students aren't from New York State either.

https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/suny-at-binghamton/student-life/diversity/

First, international students are excluded from both the numerator and the denominator when calculating OOS percentages at all universities. The 7% OOS figure is the one that allows for apples-to-apples comparisons with other schools' OOS figures (the SUNY schools don't get to puff their numbers, as you're trying to do, by including internationals when everyone else excludes them).

Second, your "collegefactual" cite is spouting nonsense. The CDS includes actual nonresident alien numbers, too, in section B2. At Bing, it's 575 out of 14,307, or 4%. (No rocket science required.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have always wondered about this too. They are a great value, even for out-of-state residents. Weather might be a factor, but plenty of people from the DMV choose SLACs and some out-of-state publics in cold climates.

But those schools generally have better academic reputations ... I mean you could equally ask why more DMV students aren't going to Penn State's regional campuses. The answer is because they don't want to and have better options.

The ignorance of some DCUM commenters -- and their insistence on advertising it -- is breathtaking.

On US News' list of National Universities, SUNY/Stony Brook ranks #77 (tie); SUNY/Binghamton ranks #83; and SUNY/Buffalo ranks #89 (tie).

That's equal to, or higher ranked than, several nearby OOS schools that get exhaustive interest and discussion on DCUM -- Penn State (#77- tie), Delaware (#89) or Temple (#121)

Those SUNY flagships are also higher ranked than several out of area OOS schools that frequently surface on DCUM -- Colorado/Boulder (#97), Arizona State (#121 - tie), and UVM (#121 - tie).

They're signficantly higher ranked than the southern universities and flagships that some trolls keep trying to push here -- Auburn (#97), South Carolina (#115), and Alabama (#137).

The SUNY flagships have stronger reputations than a lot of the schools that get talked up here on DCUM. That says a lot more about DCUM commenters, and their low information, and their priorities, than it does about the SUNY system.

Thanks! Good to see a powerhouse state invest appropriately in higher ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some kids from this area go to SUNY-Binghamton. And doesn't New Paltz have a good reputation for performing arts?

But overall the SUNY schools don't have very attractive campuses and are in cold locations in towns that aren't exactly thriving. Who'd want to live there if many of the kids at those schools are going home on the weekends? You could have a similar experience at UMBC or George Mason and the weather would be better.

This^^^
Most are unattractive campuses and located in the middle of nowhere with bad weather. There are many "better options" that are also affordable.

This. And another negative is that as a consequence of those things, the student body is overwhelmingly NY state residents. That's true of most public schools of course, but there is a big difference between a place like Pitt, that is about 35% out of state, vs a place like SUNY Binghamton, where 95% of students are from NY. And that percentage is even lower at other SUNY schools. No geographic diversity at all.

Though to be honest, NY state offers a tremendous amount of diversity: kids from upstate (rural/depressed), vs. New York City ('nuf said) vs. the suburbs (Westchester, Long Island). On one level, the state itself has a huge range of types of people/communities.

That's still ALL NY. So while very different and a bit diverse, the fact is majority of those students are from somewhere in NY and will want to remain in NY (somewhere) after graduation. Versus say attending UChicago or Northwestern: at Northwestern 78% of students are from out of state. So only 22% are from Chicago vs smaller cities near Chicago vs rural Illinois, vs medium cities elsewhere in IL. Much more diverse than where 85% are from NY state itself. Many kids want that from their college experience. And if you do a SUNY is not the place to get that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SUNY Bing graduate here. Yeah it's an ugly campus, but it didn't affect me. I wasn't looking for a pretty school, but the best SUNY I could get into and I went. It is a great mix of, yeah you still have frat parties and bars, but people are NOT there for a party school. Everyone really cares about academics. There is also the free library bus that goes back and forth to Cornell on the weekends.

So you were from NY, not OOS. That I get---SUNY schools are a great bargain for college---find the best one you can get into for your interests and suck up the "location issues" because you are going to college for a decent price.

But for OOS, nobody is gonna think most of the SUNYs are worth OOS price or experience.

[Anonymous]

Seems incredibly short-sighted of NY state not to have a more appealing university system. Insane.

Well, appealing to you probably isn't their top priority.

NY has long had a huge network of private and religious-affiliated universities and colleges. It didn't formally establish the SUNY state university system until 1948, and it was clear that from the start, SUNY - like many other state universities in the northeast -- wasn't intended to rival or supplant long-established in-state private universities (like Columbia or Cornell or Rochester).

New York was the largest state in the country when SUNY was founded, and SUNY was (and is) the nation's largest comprehensive public university system, so establishing a single "flagship" as in most states (save California) wasn't a feasible option. So resources weren't funneled into one flagship showcase but spread around four university campuses (now winnowed down to two "flagship" campuses -- Stony Brook and Buffalo) and about 20 other colleges (plus community colleges). A lot of expansion occurred in the 1960s, which of course is problematic for DCUM commenters who are convinced that the caliber of educational experience correlates directly to how closely a campus resembles either Harvard or Downton Abbey.

The SUNY system offers a solid, often excellent, education, in a range of different settings. For NYers the cost is an incredible value; for OOS students, SUNY tuitions are still a very good value. It's certainly provides a better education than many of the other schools that DCUM commenters talk about for their non-HYPSM kids, but apparently some DCUM families care more about climate or architecture (or some other subjective "vibe" metric) than they do about educational quality, so their loss.

I suspect for the state of NY, funding a university system that's largely going to provide an affordable college education for in-state residents who are likely to remain in state, and boost the state's skill and income levels, rather than serve as a pit stop for OOS students to absorb four years of education before they leave the state for elsewhere - is probably a good rather than bad outcome. Thanks in large part to SUNY, NY has the highest college graduation rate of any of the ten largest US states. Compared to that accomplishment, there's a strong case to be made that investing limited resources to generate "appeal" for out of state kids and their parents actually shouldn't be a top priority for a state university system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have always wondered about this too. They are a great value, even for out-of-state residents. Weather might be a factor, but plenty of people from the DMV choose SLACs and some out-of-state publics in cold climates.

But those schools generally have better academic reputations ... I mean you could equally ask why more DMV students aren't going to Penn State's regional campuses. The answer is because they don't want to and have better options.

The ignorance of some DCUM commenters -- and their insistence on advertising it -- is breathtaking.

On US News' list of National Universities, SUNY/Stony Brook ranks #77 (tie); SUNY/Binghamton ranks #83; and SUNY/Buffalo ranks #89 (tie).

That's equal to, or higher ranked than, several nearby OOS schools that get exhaustive interest and discussion on DCUM -- Penn State (#77- tie), Delaware (#89) or Temple (#121)

Those SUNY flagships are also higher ranked than several out of area OOS schools that frequently surface on DCUM -- Colorado/Boulder (#97), Arizona State (#121 - tie), and UVM (#121 - tie).

They're signficantly higher ranked than the southern universities and flagships that some trolls keep trying to push here -- Auburn (#97), South Carolina (#115), and Alabama (#137).



The SUNY flagships have stronger reputations than a lot of the schools that get talked up here on DCUM. That says a lot more about DCUM commenters, and their low information, and their priorities, than it does about the SUNY system.

Well Penn State is Penn State---the atmosphere alone is what many want, along with a quality big school.
Delaware---great state school and it's not located in the middle of nowhere (like most SUNYs)
and Temple is in a Major city.
I honestly think location, location location is why people don't think of SUNYs. And when you put OOS costs with them, it's just not worth it. Many are not easy to fly to---you have to bus a few hours to an airport or take a train and then connect.

People go to Alabama for the big school experience (football, and now basketball) and the fact that Alabama offers MAJOR merit to students. A 1420+ and 3.5+ UW gpa will get you FREE TUITION as an OOS student. So yeah, people are willing to sacrifice "ranking" for the big school experience with only owing room & board. I know for a fact that Boulder does not offer much (if any) merit awards, especially for OOS students. So $18K for R&B at Alabama or $~56K for tuition, R&B at Boulder. Really not that difficult to see why someone would select Alabama (I personally wouldn't and neither would my kids, but I can certainly understand why many would)

[Anonymous]

First, international students are excluded from both the numerator and the denominator when calculating OOS percentages at all universities. The 7% OOS figure is the one that allows for apples-to-apples comparisons with other schools' OOS figures (the SUNY schools don't get to puff their numbers, as you're trying to do, by including internationals when everyone else excludes them).

Second, your "collegefactual" cite is spouting nonsense. The CDS includes actual nonresident alien numbers, too, in section B2. At Bing, it's 575 out of 14,307, or 4%. (No rocket science required.)

You've got to stop assuming that the CDS is gospel. It fundamentally doesn't matter if "international students are excluded from both the numerator and the denominator" in the CDS statistics. If about ten percent of the student body at Binghamton is international students (and it is -- youre again misled by the fact that CDS only looks at undergraduate statistics), then by definition that's ten percent of the student body that aren't NYers.

With more than 1,800 international students from 98 different countries, Binghamton University
https://www.binghamton.edu/admissions/apply/international/index.html

[Anonymous]

That's still ALL NY. So while very different and a bit diverse, the fact is majority of those students are from somewhere in NY and will want to remain in NY (somewhere) after graduation. Versus say attending UChicago or Northwestern: at Northwestern 78% of students are from out of state. So only 22% are from Chicago vs smaller cities near Chicago vs rural Illinois, vs medium cities elsewhere in IL. Much more diverse than where 85% are from NY state itself. Many kids want that from their college experience. And if you do a SUNY is not the place to get that

Okay, it sounds like you're saying "elite private universities have a more geographically diverse student body than state universities that are designed principally to educate qualified students from their state." Yeah, that's not really contested. The relevant comparison to SUNY in this case would be Urbana-Champaign and UIUC