Feel like a fish out of water in Vienna

[Anonymous]

OP, you may want to ask to have this thread removed with so much identifying information here? You can click “Report” and that should allow you to get a message to Jeff, the owner and operator of DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Also Vienna seems to be a community of people who are so very impressed with themselves.

I offer the antidote: look beyond school and sports for volunteer opportunities. You’ll likely find your people at the Moose Lodge vs Westwood, The Shepherd Center vs PTA, for example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you may want to ask to have this thread removed with so much identifying information here? You can click “Report” and that should allow you to get a message to Jeff, the owner and operator of DCUM.

Don’t worry. No one cares.

[Anonymous]

Out of the activities mentioned, can you try Girl Scouts and/or Boy Scouts? There isn’t such a sense of competition there, and troops work toward social justice. Every month Girl Scouts volunteer for Days for Girls held at Vienna Presbyterian, helping to make menstruation kits that allow girls in another country (or other countries) to continue to go to school, which they wouldn’t be able to do without the reusable kit materials.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like to rock the boat but also want everyone to like me.

What a narcissit.

I find people who characterize or conceive of themselves as too honest for other people to handle are often just idiot loudmouths.

Not sure what place would be a good fit for a personality like that.

I don't think OP expects everyone to like her. I think she probably wants some people to like her and not to rush to exclude her because she can be outspoken and opinionated at times.

That sort of stuff can just be the kiss of death in Vienna. It sounds like you either have no idea how quickly Vienna parents can ostracize someone who doesn't fit the mold or are one of those folks.

Yeah, maybe you're right. I don't live in Vienna. I just think that people who are proud of rocking the boat are often too self absorbed to see why that legitimately bothers other people. That's not going to be popular anywhere, putting aside any issues specific to Vienna.

+100
OP in their post at least, comes across as quite self absorbed with a huge pay-attention-to-me vibe which is not well received anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Since you shared that you are "pretty vocal about social injustice" and that you "curse a lot" and that you like to "rock the boat", I think that you should not be calling others "tightly-wound" without including yourself.

Fair enough — I was mostly referring to how tightly wound the people around me seem about their kids’ academic and athletic performance. I am the complete opposite and am very laid back about that. I am not laid back about social injustice, hence why I feel out of place.

If you are so laid-back about academics, why did you specifically move to a strong school pyramid? Why didn't your strong sense of social justice lead you to Baileys Crossroads, down the street, instead?

Not OP, but you sound more than a little defensive here.

I will say OP might like the Lake Barcroft area near Bailey's Crossroads. There are quite a few people there who walk the walk and talk the talk (they send their kids to majority-minority, low GS schools, confident that their kids have enough advantages in life to do fine). And many are very involved in other social justice causes.

I think the PP made a good point. The people I know who are truly devoted to social justice intentionally select more diverse/lower SES school pyramids so their kids don't grow up in a bubble. OP you might look for homes zoned for Falls Church HS. I have a few friends who live in Merrifield and the "wrong side" of Vienna zoned for Falls Church. They are MUCH more down to earth than the typical Vienna people. Around here there is an inverse relationship between school ratings and being nice/not snobby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - if they are talking to you about AAP and travel sports, they actually think they are looking out for you. I don't want my kids in AAP or travel sports, but if they didn't like you at all, they would be ignoring you completely -- not filling you in on how things work.

NP and decades long 22181 resident. The hyper focus on AAP and travel sports are always the subject of conversation because of the obsession parents have with both and they’ll likely tell you honestly that they moved to Vienna for one or the other. The unfair assumption all tend to make is that you too are most certainly just as interested. The talk (starts in kindergarten) at the bus stop, neighborhood gatherings and every school function is non stop chat about classes, prep (to get into AAP), activities, teachers. I didn’t want to talk on and on about my DC and wondered if these parents had any interests beyond their DC. Kept meeting more and more boring parents who were ultra competitive.

I didn’t fit it at all for the longest time. Took until one DC was in HS to find a group of like minded mom friends.

OP here. HOW??? Thanks so much.

Honestly, we all met up spontaneously after Homecoming photos. Impromptu where one mom suggested we dash out to dinner and at least share contact info so we could send photos. I mean a motley collection gathered; DHs, siblings. Fun night. Then from there we’d check in on our kids and arrange rides before the DC drive. Basically as DC friend group tightened, so did the friendships with the moms. After Covid we began to go out to dinner once a month and try to keep that going.

Focus on finding one really good friend. Might help to find a mom with slightly older DC than you. Keep looking for volunteer opportunities besides PTA. Rotary Club! Seriously! They always want more active members and volunteers. Moose Lodge, too. I find that people who spend their precious time volunteering for a
charity or cause they are passionate about are salt of the earth types. I’m one!

I promise we’re not all snobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I moved from DC to Vienna three years ago for more space (and also because my work moved completely remote). I thought that the tight-knit sense of community would appeal to me and my two kids (late elementary school), but that hasn’t really been the case.

I feel like a fish out of water. I’m a single mom, and already I feel like that separates me from the family-oriented nature of Vienna. I also don’t really fit into the suburban soccer mom stereotype that Vienna is known for. I’m not super interested in playing politics with my neighbors. I’m pretty vocal about social injustice and I curse a lot — I don’t really buy into the “don’t rock the boat” ethos around me.

The competitive nature of the other parents and the Type A pressure cooker of the schools also concern me. I’m a psychologist and I’ve seen WAY too many teens in this area break down because of the intense pressure, and I sometimes feel like I should’ve chosen a “lower performing” school that doesn’t have the relentless pressure to succeed.

The tightly-wound nature of the other parents bother me, and sometimes they make comments about how I’m not “pushing” my kids by putting them in travel sports or extra academic enrichment. It just seems like most of the people around me are Type A rule-following lawyers, which feels really weird as someone who spent my teens and twenties going to punk shows and making lots of (bad) art…

And the conservatism of the area is unsettling. I don’t really find any Trump supporters/far-right people in the area, but there is a general social conservatism and intense conformity that feels uncomfortable.

Is this just what living in the suburbs is like? Or is it intensified in Vienna? Is there another NoVa/Moco/DC neighborhood where parents like me congregate?

A lot of people in this area have political beliefs that you wouldn't know about. I know a ton of people on both ends of the spectrum including social justice types that keep a low profile because of their work or their spouse's work. Come on. Think about where we live.

Just because people don't shout it from the rooftops doesn't make them what you're assuming they are.

Get over yourself.

I am the PP who used to live in Vienna who has OP's back.

The issue isn't that there are people on both ends of the political spectrum who live in Vienna or other places in the area. The issue is that, in other places, you can generally engage in a political discussion with others that acknowledges you may well have different perspectives. Hopefully it doesn't end in shouting, and perhaps sometimes it even does, but topics (as opposed to confidential information) aren't off-limits.

In Vienna, you run the risk of being shunned for "bad form" because you've brought up controversial political issues at all, when you should have known the acceptable topics of discourse were (1) VYI sports, (2) the Madison HS band, (3) AAP, (4) the local Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts troops, (5) slots on local PTA committees and (6) whether Caffe Amouri has gone downhill. [I'm exaggerating slightly, but not as much as you might think.]

I hope that you are joking a lot because you are being very offensive. Why is it the "social warrior" types who generalize and somehow think they have the right to make fun of thousands and thousands of people lumping them together as one. That is never fair and quite an ignorant look PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I moved from DC to Vienna three years ago for more space (and also because my work moved completely remote). I thought that the tight-knit sense of community would appeal to me and my two kids (late elementary school), but that hasn’t really been the case.

I feel like a fish out of water. I’m a single mom, and already I feel like that separates me from the family-oriented nature of Vienna. I also don’t really fit into the suburban soccer mom stereotype that Vienna is known for. I’m not super interested in playing politics with my neighbors. I’m pretty vocal about social injustice and I curse a lot — I don’t really buy into the “don’t rock the boat” ethos around me.

The competitive nature of the other parents and the Type A pressure cooker of the schools also concern me. I’m a psychologist and I’ve seen WAY too many teens in this area break down because of the intense pressure, and I sometimes feel like I should’ve chosen a “lower performing” school that doesn’t have the relentless pressure to succeed.

The tightly-wound nature of the other parents bother me, and sometimes they make comments about how I’m not “pushing” my kids by putting them in travel sports or extra academic enrichment. It just seems like most of the people around me are Type A rule-following lawyers, which feels really weird as someone who spent my teens and twenties going to punk shows and making lots of (bad) art…

And the conservatism of the area is unsettling. I don’t really find any Trump supporters/far-right people in the area, but there is a general social conservatism and intense conformity that feels uncomfortable.

Is this just what living in the suburbs is like? Or is it intensified in Vienna? Is there another NoVa/Moco/DC neighborhood where parents like me congregate?

A lot of people in this area have political beliefs that you wouldn't know about. I know a ton of people on both ends of the spectrum including social justice types that keep a low profile because of their work or their spouse's work. Come on. Think about where we live.

Just because people don't shout it from the rooftops doesn't make them what you're assuming they are.

Get over yourself.

I am the PP who used to live in Vienna who has OP's back.

The issue isn't that there are people on both ends of the political spectrum who live in Vienna or other places in the area. The issue is that, in other places, you can generally engage in a political discussion with others that acknowledges you may well have different perspectives. Hopefully it doesn't end in shouting, and perhaps sometimes it even does, but topics (as opposed to confidential information) aren't off-limits.

In Vienna, you run the risk of being shunned for "bad form" because you've brought up controversial political issues at all, when you should have known the acceptable topics of discourse were (1) VYI sports, (2) the Madison HS band, (3) AAP, (4) the local Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts troops, (5) slots on local PTA committees and (6) whether Caffe Amouri has gone downhill. [I'm exaggerating slightly, but not as much as you might think.]

Excuse me, you forgot (7) the nice vacation you recently took/will be taking, and (8) the new home building or major renovations you are doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - if they are talking to you about AAP and travel sports, they actually think they are looking out for you. I don't want my kids in AAP or travel sports, but if they didn't like you at all, they would be ignoring you completely -- not filling you in on how things work.

NP and decades long 22181 resident. The hyper focus on AAP and travel sports are always the subject of conversation because of the obsession parents have with both and they’ll likely tell you honestly that they moved to Vienna for one or the other. The unfair assumption all tend to make is that you too are most certainly just as interested. The talk (starts in kindergarten) at the bus stop, neighborhood gatherings and every school function is non stop chat about classes, prep (to get into AAP), activities, teachers. I didn’t want to talk on and on about my DC and wondered if these parents had any interests beyond their DC. Kept meeting more and more boring parents who were ultra competitive.

I didn’t fit it at all for the longest time. Took until one DC was in HS to find a group of like minded mom friends.

OP here. HOW??? Thanks so much.

Honestly, we all met up spontaneously after Homecoming photos. Impromptu where one mom suggested we dash out to dinner and at least share contact info so we could send photos. I mean a motley collection gathered; DHs, siblings. Fun night. Then from there we’d check in on our kids and arrange rides before the DC drive. Basically as DC friend group tightened, so did the friendships with the moms. After Covid we began to go out to dinner once a month and try to keep that going.

Focus on finding one really good friend. Might help to find a mom with slightly older DC than you. Keep looking for volunteer opportunities besides PTA. Rotary Club! Seriously! They always want more active members and volunteers. Moose Lodge, too. I find that people who spend their precious time volunteering for a
charity or cause they are passionate about are salt of the earth types. I’m one!

I promise we’re not all snobs.

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“People with different political beliefs are unsettling to me.” So you’re the fascist trying to control your neighborhood streets, cool. Real head-scratcher why you don’t fit in anywhere.

+1

“Why doesn’t everyone think like me and align with my views only!?”

I’ve noticed several people putting words into OP’s mouth that aren’t even close to accurate summaries or paraphrases of anything she actually said.

It makes me glad we moved out of Vienna. It’s got a very “Pleasantville” vibe but if you express any criticisms of the place they will turn on you on a dime.

“The conservatism of the area is unsettling.” “The tightly-wound parents bother me.”

Try again, loser.

+1

OP sounds miserable that people don’t pay her attention in her neighborhood. Which is weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Since you shared that you are "pretty vocal about social injustice" and that you "curse a lot" and that you like to "rock the boat", I think that you should not be calling others "tightly-wound" without including yourself.

Fair enough — I was mostly referring to how tightly wound the people around me seem about their kids’ academic and athletic performance. I am the complete opposite and am very laid back about that. I am not laid back about social injustice, hence why I feel out of place.

If you are so laid-back about academics, why did you specifically move to a strong school pyramid? Why didn't your strong sense of social justice lead you to Baileys Crossroads, down the street, instead?

Not OP, but you sound more than a little defensive here.

I will say OP might like the Lake Barcroft area near Bailey's Crossroads. There are quite a few people there who walk the walk and talk the talk (they send their kids to majority-minority, low GS schools, confident that their kids have enough advantages in life to do fine). And many are very involved in other social justice causes.

I think the PP made a good point. The people I know who are truly devoted to social justice intentionally select more diverse/lower SES school pyramids so their kids don't grow up in a bubble. OP you might look for homes zoned for Falls Church HS. I have a few friends who live in Merrifield and the "wrong side" of Vienna zoned for Falls Church. They are MUCH more down to earth than the typical Vienna people. Around here there is an inverse relationship between school ratings and being nice/not snobby.

OP here. Thanks for the suggestion, will look into Falls Church HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Since you shared that you are "pretty vocal about social injustice" and that you "curse a lot" and that you like to "rock the boat", I think that you should not be calling others "tightly-wound" without including yourself.

Fair enough — I was mostly referring to how tightly wound the people around me seem about their kids’ academic and athletic performance. I am the complete opposite and am very laid back about that. I am not laid back about social injustice, hence why I feel out of place.

If you are so laid-back about academics, why did you specifically move to a strong school pyramid? Why didn't your strong sense of social justice lead you to Baileys Crossroads, down the street, instead?

Not OP, but you sound more than a little defensive here.

I will say OP might like the Lake Barcroft area near Bailey's Crossroads. There are quite a few people there who walk the walk and talk the talk (they send their kids to majority-minority, low GS schools, confident that their kids have enough advantages in life to do fine). And many are very involved in other social justice causes.

I think the PP made a good point. The people I know who are truly devoted to social justice intentionally select more diverse/lower SES school pyramids so their kids don't grow up in a bubble. OP you might look for homes zoned for Falls Church HS. I have a few friends who live in Merrifield and the "wrong side" of Vienna zoned for Falls Church. They are MUCH more down to earth than the typical Vienna people. Around here there is an inverse relationship between school ratings and being nice/not snobby.

Actions speak louder than words. OP intentionally selected a pressure cooker pyramid in an area with little economic diversity. Once OP makes friends with other Vienna moms, she’ll forget everything about her causes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Vienna is the suburbs on steroids. There is an immense amount of pride in being "family-friendly," an intense focus on conventional youth activities like sports, band, and scouting, and a huge premium on being pleasant and "not rocking the boat" as opposed to being opinionated or unconventional.

It is just how Vienna rolls. If you're a traditional two-parent family, your kids are typical kids, and you have a high enough income to pursue things like travel teams and high-end vacations, it can be very reaffirming. But you have to expect other parents to watch over (and keep tabs on) your kids like hawks, and if you don't fit the mold you can quickly grow disaffected.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say you're not interested in "playing politics" with your neighbors, because in our experience people in Vienna deliberately avoided talking about politics or any issues of national or international significance whenever possible, because everyone is so interested in getting along. Maybe you meant things like PTA or school politics - which can be another competitive sport in Vienna.

We ended up moving for a better commute and because we weren't thrilled with the schools (Kilmer in particular was a mess at the time), but I totally get why you'd feel like a fish out of water there. We've lived in different places in the DC area over the years (NW DC, Arlington, Falls Church, and McLean) and all of them have felt less buttoned-down than Vienna.

This. I mean, did you not research Vienna at all? Why would you move there? I’m facing being a single mom in one of these suburbs and this is my biggest concern that we will not fit in. This is pretty standard stuff. Why would you bring your kids there then fight with the whole neighborhood? Seems like you’re trying to make a point? Or maybe you thought it would be different? If you can afford to, just move back to DC or maybe Takoma if you want more space for your kids. I understand where you’re coming from but also seems really like you’re trying to prove a point.

[Anonymous]

Another single mom here. Everyone was so welcoming, and then found out I was a single mom. Definitely now feel shunned. I also am zoned to some Vienna schools but live south. DC plays in Vienna sports teams, and I am prepping DC for AAP, etc. But I definitely feel Vienna has a conservative vibe in terms of 2 parent families and where you live.