MCPS High School 7:45am for teens is to early

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The reason DCOS can do that is that they do t run school buses. Unfortunately not an option in MoCo unless they switch elementary to start early, which I would support but many other don’t.

If ES started at 7:45 and got out at 2:30, many more thousands of seats in aftercare would be needed.

Not sure how many times you need to hear this before you get it but school is not your free daycare service. Don’t rely on school before having children. Do research. Make sure you can afford it. I’m a parent and I’m so tired of this… it makes the rest of us look bad. Most of us have shit together.

I’m the person you’re responding to. I’m a teacher. I don’t think of my time during the school day as free child care, but I do realize schools provide a safe place for many low income younger children to be during a significant part of their parents’ working hours.

I work at a title 1 school where most parents are home all day and work nights. The point is, there is no universal experience. At my school, an earlier dismissal would actually mean more time with their parents.

[Anonymous]

I’m noticing MoCo parents are the least progressive group of parents around. Complain about everything that other places handle with grace. So many other states have one half day per week. The parents here would lose their mind. Meanwhile, that’s been standard practice for decades. Most schools all over the country (elementary) get out at 1:45-2:30. MoCo parents won’t have it! Need childcare! Definitely time to move somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason DCOS can do that is that they do t run school buses. Unfortunately not an option in MoCo unless they switch elementary to start early, which I would support but many other don’t.

If ES started at 7:45 and got out at 2:30, many more thousands of seats in aftercare would be needed.

Except HS students provide child care so that wouldn't work if they got out later, younger kids earlier.

How are other states able to make later start times work?
Montgomery County is not unique. Same problems everywhere but in other places, they adapt and figure things out.

We have a child care shortage now and always have. How would you propose we make it work? And, a bus driver shortage. Most places don't have as large a student body to deal with.

It’s not the school districts job to provide you with childcare. It is their job to provide an education. The rest of the country has later start times for high school and earlier start times for elementary. They made it work. We could do except apparently every parent in MoCo had kids and forgot they had to actually take care of them.

There are multiple issues with late starts from child care to busing issues. We don't have either issue but we do have after school activities that start right after school so we have to scramble to pick up our kids and get them to the activity several times a week. So, some of those activities couldn't happen. Nor could kids work with after school jobs, which may not be an issue for your family but could be for others. I'm sorry your kids cannot get up and you cannot parent them in a way to support them but the rest of our kids shouldn't have to miss out because yours are too lazy to go to bed and wake up on time.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s fine. They adjust.

No the don’t. Their circadian clock doesn’t adjust.

Mine (who slept til 11:30 today) adjusted fine, as did I as a teenager. Woke up in the dark every morning, even earlier than necessary, to have enough time to do my hair. Not ideal, but we’re all doing just fine.

No, they are tired and yes, it is not ideal. You contradicted yourself bc you know it needs to be later and you admit your kids slept till 11:30. Your time to fo your hair does not correlate to a study in the biology of teen sleep patterns.

I was only pointing out that though her body might want to sleep til 11:30, she does fine when forced to wake up much earlier. She doesn’t get home til nearly 5 pm most days. She’s cheerful and doing well in school. Her phone shuts off at 9 pm, so if yours are having trouble, maybe try that.

My kid isn’t using her phone after 9pm, is getting straight A’s in a magnet program, and has to be out the door by 6:35 to catch her bus. She’s cheerful most hours out of the day…but not from 6-8:00am. By Friday nights she’s a zombie. If we have special weekend plans that prevent her from getting caught up on her sleep, the next week is really tough. She’s physically and mentally healthy, doing well in school, and has a happy social life, but she’s tired. Is the early start time going to break her? No, she’ll survive it like we did. But is it fine? No, it’s not. A later start time would be better. It may not be feasible, but it would be better.

Ok, but not all kids feel that way. What does her doctor say? Why do you think your kid is representative of all teens everywhere? And with a later start time, you realize she'll just be staying up later and still not getting more sleep.

I don’t think she’s “representative of all teens everywhere,” but then, you already knew that since you resorted to hyperbole. She is representative of a not insignificant number of teens who are not staying up super late, not using their phones into the wee hours, not failing to show up to school on time, not struggling in school, but could really use more sleep. My post was written in response to the one I quoted above, where it was suggested that limiting phone use might be the solution to helping teens be well rested with the early start time.

[Anonymous]

We moved to a state with an 8:30 start time and area with a small geographic boundary so no one is really more than a 5-10 minute drive or 15-20 minute walk. It has made a huge difference for my two very different teens. One has always been a night owl and waking up at 5:30 to catch a bus at 6:40 was killing her. She sleeps until 7:15 now almost two extra hours. Huge difference. My other kid likes to exercise/practice early he gets up at 5 am, goes to the gym from 5:30-6:45, is home by 7 and has an hour and fifteen minutes to eat, study etc. He feels so much better having this morning time.

[Anonymous]

Remember when MCPS was virtual, and the first classes started mid-morning? Where were all the parents applauding the extra sleep their high schoolers got?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s fine. They adjust.

No the don’t. Their circadian clock doesn’t adjust.

Its funny how the need to be at a job just a few years later makes it ok.

How many people have to be at work at 7:45 AM 5 days a week?

Many many people. By 7, 90% of my office is there

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish parents could attend period 1 at MCPS high schools for 1 week.
They would change their tune quickly.
I’m a HS teacher and don’t mind the early start as I am an early riser.
But I feel terrible for my students. First period is so different from my other classes. Half the students arrive late. They trickle in all throughout period 1.
The remaining kids are either half or fully asleep. Most states have moved high school start times to 8 am or later but MCPS is not progressive in this regard

+100. Another HS teacher here. I teach on-level physics and chemistry at a very diverse school and I often only have 4 students out of 30 at the start of period 1. By the end of period 1, maybe we are at 15-20 students max out of 30. Period 1 starting at 7.45 am does not work. It is a wasted period.

What has changed, other than the internet and social media, since the 1990s? My high school started at 7:45. With the exceptions of late busses, trains, or crazy traffic, everyone was there at 7:45. And no, half the class wasn’t asleep in 1st period. So why are 2023 teens unable to do this but 1990s/2000s teens were?

Well, since the 1990s, kids have been getting less healthy, more obese, depressed, and anxious - and that was before social media. It's not about whether they are able to get up, but whether that is best for their health and learning.

And to the person who said that they need to get ready for the real work world, when they are in the real world, they won't be teens anymore, meaning that their sleep needs will be different.

Bussing logistics and money are reasons why start times haven't changed. However, if you are against changing for any other reason, you are ignoring unanimous agreement from experts that later start times are healthier.

I don't live in Montgomery County, but in my county, the high school start time doesn't even tell the full story of how early teens are forced to get up. My kid has a 7:25 a.m. start time, which required him to be at the bus stop at 6:25. The bus got them to school between 6:50 and 7:00 a.m. so that the driver could leave to pick up middle school kids who had a 7:40 start time. Basically, kids have wasted time spent milling about outside in the earning morning simply to save money on buses. They aren't working, exercising, or learning - just killing time before school and spending their days exhausted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s fine. They adjust.

No the don’t. Their circadian clock doesn’t adjust.

Its funny how the need to be at a job just a few years later makes it ok.

How many people have to be at work at 7:45 AM 5 days a week?

Many many people. By 7, 90% of my office is there

+1 Maybe this is why this is NBD to me. Both of my parents left the house at the crack of dawn to go to work every day. It was normal. Wonder how many of your struggling kids are picking up on parental anxiety about teen circadian rhythms.

[Anonymous]

Teen mental health would likely improve with a later start time. More sleep is beneficial to mental and physical health.
I have no dog in this fight since my kids are juniors and seniors in HS. Any change would come too late for them anyway.
But it is frustrating that we supposedly live in a highly educated area but we are so backwards and no-can-do about many things.

All of you complaining about kids needing to get used to life and early start times have no idea about the basic developmental needs of adolescents.
Educate yourself. And the bus driver shortage only exists because MCPS is cheap and pays too little.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teen mental health would likely improve with a later start time. More sleep is beneficial to mental and physical health.
I have no dog in this fight since my kids are juniors and seniors in HS. Any change would come too late for them anyway.
But it is frustrating that we supposedly live in a highly educated area but we are so backwards and no-can-do about many things.

All of you complaining about kids needing to get used to life and early start times have no idea about the basic developmental needs of adolescents.
Educate yourself. And the bus driver shortage only exists because MCPS is cheap and pays too little.

Doubt it. There are too many other factors at play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teen mental health would likely improve with a later start time. More sleep is beneficial to mental and physical health.
I have no dog in this fight since my kids are juniors and seniors in HS. Any change would come too late for them anyway.
But it is frustrating that we supposedly live in a highly educated area but we are so backwards and no-can-do about many things.

All of you complaining about kids needing to get used to life and early start times have no idea about the basic developmental needs of adolescents.
Educate yourself. And the bus driver shortage only exists because MCPS is cheap and pays too little.

Doubt it. There are too many other factors at play.

I don’t understand why there is so pushback to the notion that it would be better for most teens, even if MCPS has 748484 reasons why they can’t do it. For most teens, it would help, even those who (you think) are getting through it with no issues. MCPS won’t do anything though, so consider that OP when making your decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teen mental health would likely improve with a later start time. More sleep is beneficial to mental and physical health.
I have no dog in this fight since my kids are juniors and seniors in HS. Any change would come too late for them anyway.
But it is frustrating that we supposedly live in a highly educated area but we are so backwards and no-can-do about many things.

All of you complaining about kids needing to get used to life and early start times have no idea about the basic developmental needs of adolescents.
Educate yourself. And the bus driver shortage only exists because MCPS is cheap and pays too little.

Doubt it. There are too many other factors at play.

I don’t understand why there is so pushback to the notion that it would be better for most teens, even if MCPS has 748484 reasons why they can’t do it. For most teens, it would help, even those who (you think) are getting through it with no issues. MCPS won’t do anything though, so consider that OP when making your decision.

Personally, it’s because the more well-meaning adults attempt to erase any trace of unpleasantness or inconvenience for kids, the more depressed and brittle they seem to become. They need to figure out how to adjust to the circumstances that are given to them. If they need more sleep, maybe an afternoon nap is in order.

[Anonymous]

It used to be 715 start right? Even as early as a few years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teen mental health would likely improve with a later start time. More sleep is beneficial to mental and physical health.
I have no dog in this fight since my kids are juniors and seniors in HS. Any change would come too late for them anyway.
But it is frustrating that we supposedly live in a highly educated area but we are so backwards and no-can-do about many things.

All of you complaining about kids needing to get used to life and early start times have no idea about the basic developmental needs of adolescents.
Educate yourself. And the bus driver shortage only exists because MCPS is cheap and pays too little.

Doubt it. There are too many other factors at play.

I don’t understand why there is so pushback to the notion that it would be better for most teens, even if MCPS has 748484 reasons why they can’t do it. For most teens, it would help, even those who (you think) are getting through it with no issues. MCPS won’t do anything though, so consider that OP when making your decision.

Personally, it’s because the more well-meaning adults attempt to erase any trace of unpleasantness or inconvenience for kids, the more depressed and brittle they seem to become. They need to figure out how to adjust to the circumstances that are given to them. If they need more sleep, maybe an afternoon nap is in order.

On this topic, it's the opposite. Well-rested people are more resilient, healthy, capable of learning, and better able to adapt to unpleasantness. Changing school start times isn't removing unpleasantness, it's setting kids up to make better decisions and bounce back from setbacks.