Peer Masking as a Reasonable Accommodation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nbc12.com/2022/12/12/aclu-parents-virginia-settle-lawsuit-school-masking-accommodations/

Does this mean what I think it means? That schools can require students to mask as an accommodation for others? What happens when someone filed a counter request for an accommodation that their child has a disability that makes masking difficult (such as social or speech delays)?

Is there a certain illness metric that must be met, or is the school now required to enforce universal masking if one kid makes a claim that they need an accommodation. Why now when COVID numbers are low? Will this apply to fly, RSV, etc.?

This seems like a giant can of worms and I’m sure I’ll get skewered, but I don’t want my young kids back in masks. My almost-5 year old spent nearly half his life in one and hated it. He has delays and it was a nightmare for us to get him to wear it. We are vaxxed and boosted, and masked when mandated, so no, not crazy Trumpers. But I am concerned we are opening the door to this concept of making a whole class of kids be a part of a student’s accommodation.

And FWIW I also don’t think a whole class of kids should be disrupted because one student with an IEP is having a violent meltdown. In general I think accommodations should not extend to altering the behavior of other students in class.

Speech delays have nothing to do with masking. ASD might. It's kinda sad you cannot be considerate to the child who may have health issues who otherwise may not be able to go to school. Being vaccinated and boosted helps your child not others as its not stopping transmission fully. Maybe you should homeschool.

You asset this rather confidently but we really don’t know that speech delays have nothing to do with masking. Masks may not cause delays, but they certainly don’t help them. And kids with autism/sensory issues may not like masking. But no one was worried about those kids during school closures/mask mandates. Even now, COVID is still the cause du jour for a certain segment of society who act as if it’s the only heath issue that matters.

I love when people assert so confidently that masks don't work but that they have been proven to cause speech delays.

Uh, I think you have your science wrong. Lots of studies showing masks work and lots of uninformed opinions on their harms.

Do you seriously think enough time has passed to definitely declare there are no harms to masking. These things take literal years to show long term effects. And way to dismiss all the parents who have witnessed first-hand the negative effects of masking on their children.

And the studies don’t show cloth masks do much. That is pretty common knowledge now. N95s do work, but those protect the wearer. So just wear an N95 if you (or your kids) would like. But if you think something sold at Old Navy and worn by a 6 year old is going to protect a child with cancer, I think you are the one who has “your science wrong.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nbc12.com/2022/12/12/aclu-parents-virginia-settle-lawsuit-school-masking-accommodations/

Does this mean what I think it means? That schools can require students to mask as an accommodation for others? What happens when someone filed a counter request for an accommodation that their child has a disability that makes masking difficult (such as social or speech delays)?

Is there a certain illness metric that must be met, or is the school now required to enforce universal masking if one kid makes a claim that they need an accommodation. Why now when COVID numbers are low? Will this apply to fly, RSV, etc.?

This seems like a giant can of worms and I’m sure I’ll get skewered, but I don’t want my young kids back in masks. My almost-5 year old spent nearly half his life in one and hated it. He has delays and it was a nightmare for us to get him to wear it. We are vaxxed and boosted, and masked when mandated, so no, not crazy Trumpers. But I am concerned we are opening the door to this concept of making a whole class of kids be a part of a student’s accommodation.

And FWIW I also don’t think a whole class of kids should be disrupted because one student with an IEP is having a violent meltdown. In general I think accommodations should not extend to altering the behavior of other students in class.

Speech delays have nothing to do with masking. ASD might. It's kinda sad you cannot be considerate to the child who may have health issues who otherwise may not be able to go to school. Being vaccinated and boosted helps your child not others as its not stopping transmission fully. Maybe you should homeschool.

You asset this rather confidently but we really don’t know that speech delays have nothing to do with masking. Masks may not cause delays, but they certainly don’t help them. And kids with autism/sensory issues may not like masking. But no one was worried about those kids during school closures/mask mandates. Even now, COVID is still the cause du jour for a certain segment of society who act as if it’s the only heath issue that matters.

I love when people assert so confidently that masks don't work but that they have been proven to cause speech delays.

Uh, I think you have your science wrong. Lots of studies showing masks work and lots of uninformed opinions on their harms.

Please go re-read. Where did I say masks *cause* speech delays? I’m waiting … Maybe read before you respond and call others uninformed.

so you admit that they don't?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nbc12.com/2022/12/12/aclu-parents-virginia-settle-lawsuit-school-masking-accommodations/

Does this mean what I think it means? That schools can require students to mask as an accommodation for others? What happens when someone filed a counter request for an accommodation that their child has a disability that makes masking difficult (such as social or speech delays)?

Is there a certain illness metric that must be met, or is the school now required to enforce universal masking if one kid makes a claim that they need an accommodation. Why now when COVID numbers are low? Will this apply to fly, RSV, etc.?

This seems like a giant can of worms and I’m sure I’ll get skewered, but I don’t want my young kids back in masks. My almost-5 year old spent nearly half his life in one and hated it. He has delays and it was a nightmare for us to get him to wear it. We are vaxxed and boosted, and masked when mandated, so no, not crazy Trumpers. But I am concerned we are opening the door to this concept of making a whole class of kids be a part of a student’s accommodation.

And FWIW I also don’t think a whole class of kids should be disrupted because one student with an IEP is having a violent meltdown. In general I think accommodations should not extend to altering the behavior of other students in class.

Speech delays have nothing to do with masking. ASD might. It's kinda sad you cannot be considerate to the child who may have health issues who otherwise may not be able to go to school. Being vaccinated and boosted helps your child not others as its not stopping transmission fully. Maybe you should homeschool.

You asset this rather confidently but we really don’t know that speech delays have nothing to do with masking. Masks may not cause delays, but they certainly don’t help them. And kids with autism/sensory issues may not like masking. But no one was worried about those kids during school closures/mask mandates. Even now, COVID is still the cause du jour for a certain segment of society who act as if it’s the only heath issue that matters.

I love when people assert so confidently that masks don't work but that they have been proven to cause speech delays.

Uh, I think you have your science wrong. Lots of studies showing masks work and lots of uninformed opinions on their harms.

Please go re-read. Where did I say masks *cause* speech delays? I’m waiting … Maybe read before you respond and call others uninformed.

so you admit that they don't?

Sure. But it doesn’t really matter what *causes* the speech delay. Kids with speech and language delays are negatively affected by masks even if the masks don’t cause the delay. Not to mention kids with social delays, ASD/sensory kids, and deaf kids.

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2022/03/how-masks-get-way-speech-therapy-kids/623332/

[Anonymous]

The mask discourse is pretty much decided already. When given the choice, almost zero parents are requiring kids to mask. Vast majority of adults are not masking either. The only place I see even 1/4 of people masking voluntarily is the metro. The revealed preference is that the risk of covid is not worth the burden of masking.

Therefore … requiring kids to mask is unreasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have had students with cancer before (they are all in remission!). They switched to homebound instruction during much of their chemotherapy, and when they were medically cleared to return to school, they wore masks, but nothing was suggested about other students wearing masks. I can't see it being required in such situations--if a student is ill enough to need everyone around them to be masked, then they are too ill to take a chance on other students not complying.

This is the answer, an in actuality families with truly immunocompromised kids will choose this option. The only parents who will try to force all their kids’ classmates to mask are the ones who get annoyed by routine illnesses and think their kid is entitled to never have a runny nose.

I saw a post about masking today in AEM in which someone pointed out our local COVID rates are low, but someone actually responded that it’s also about flu, RSV, and other viruses.

Those of us who claimed last winter that the pro mask mandate people would try to keep us masking for non-COVID illnesses were told we were crazy, yet here we are. I knew there would be a nutty contingent who want masking every year because they don’t want a cold.

In as much defense as I can sympathetically offer, I think the bottom line point was really about the # of kids with all of these things stressing the hospitals again like COVID did. Not necessarily about individual at-risk kids catching the flu or developing RSV, etc.

Still, to the extent I'm familiar with the new regulation, I'm ok with it because it theoretically should be a very rare exception that will be able to demonstrate that requiring everyone in their kids' classes (and lunch and specials and are we going to extend to extra-curriculars?) to mask is actually a necessary and reasonable accommodation to be made. I would hope (because I never presume or trust APS to do the right and reasonable thing) that APS would, first of all, require medical documentation and justification for a masked environment for the child; and, second of all, make a simple request for people to please wear a mask if they are able in consideration of the child but realize that beyond that simple request would be "UNreasonable accommodation."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nbc12.com/2022/12/12/aclu-parents-virginia-settle-lawsuit-school-masking-accommodations/

Does this mean what I think it means? That schools can require students to mask as an accommodation for others? What happens when someone filed a counter request for an accommodation that their child has a disability that makes masking difficult (such as social or speech delays)?

Is there a certain illness metric that must be met, or is the school now required to enforce universal masking if one kid makes a claim that they need an accommodation. Why now when COVID numbers are low? Will this apply to fly, RSV, etc.?

This seems like a giant can of worms and I’m sure I’ll get skewered, but I don’t want my young kids back in masks. My almost-5 year old spent nearly half his life in one and hated it. He has delays and it was a nightmare for us to get him to wear it. We are vaxxed and boosted, and masked when mandated, so no, not crazy Trumpers. But I am concerned we are opening the door to this concept of making a whole class of kids be a part of a student’s accommodation.

And FWIW I also don’t think a whole class of kids should be disrupted because one student with an IEP is having a violent meltdown. In general I think accommodations should not extend to altering the behavior of other students in class.

Speech delays have nothing to do with masking. ASD might. It's kinda sad you cannot be considerate to the child who may have health issues who otherwise may not be able to go to school. Being vaccinated and boosted helps your child not others as its not stopping transmission fully. Maybe you should homeschool.

You asset this rather confidently but we really don’t know that speech delays have nothing to do with masking. Masks may not cause delays, but they certainly don’t help them. And kids with autism/sensory issues may not like masking. But no one was worried about those kids during school closures/mask mandates. Even now, COVID is still the cause du jour for a certain segment of society who act as if it’s the only heath issue that matters.

I love when people assert so confidently that masks don't work but that they have been proven to cause speech delays.

Uh, I think you have your science wrong. Lots of studies showing masks work and [b]lots of uninformed opinions on their harms[/b].

Do you seriously think enough time has passed to definitely declare there are no harms to masking. These things take literal years to show long term effects. And way to dismiss all the parents who have witnessed first-hand the negative effects of masking on their children.

And the studies don’t show cloth masks do much. That is pretty common knowledge now. N95s do work, but those protect the wearer. So just wear an N95 if you (or your kids) would like. But if you think something sold at Old Navy and worn by a 6 year old is going to protect a child with cancer, I think you are the one who has “your science wrong.”

"Yeah, science can only prove the points that I agree with..."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nbc12.com/2022/12/12/aclu-parents-virginia-settle-lawsuit-school-masking-accommodations/

Does this mean what I think it means? That schools can require students to mask as an accommodation for others? What happens when someone filed a counter request for an accommodation that their child has a disability that makes masking difficult (such as social or speech delays)?

Is there a certain illness metric that must be met, or is the school now required to enforce universal masking if one kid makes a claim that they need an accommodation. Why now when COVID numbers are low? Will this apply to fly, RSV, etc.?

This seems like a giant can of worms and I’m sure I’ll get skewered, but I don’t want my young kids back in masks. My almost-5 year old spent nearly half his life in one and hated it. He has delays and it was a nightmare for us to get him to wear it. We are vaxxed and boosted, and masked when mandated, so no, not crazy Trumpers. But I am concerned we are opening the door to this concept of making a whole class of kids be a part of a student’s accommodation.

And FWIW I also don’t think a whole class of kids should be disrupted because one student with an IEP is having a violent meltdown. In general I think accommodations should not extend to altering the behavior of other students in class.

Speech delays have nothing to do with masking. ASD might. It's kinda sad you cannot be considerate to the child who may have health issues who otherwise may not be able to go to school. Being vaccinated and boosted helps your child not others as its not stopping transmission fully. Maybe you should homeschool.

You asset this rather confidently but we really don’t know that speech delays have nothing to do with masking. Masks may not cause delays, but they certainly don’t help them. And kids with autism/sensory issues may not like masking. But no one was worried about those kids during school closures/mask mandates. Even now, COVID is still the cause du jour for a certain segment of society who act as if it’s the only heath issue that matters.

I love when people assert so confidently that masks don't work but that they have been proven to cause speech delays.

Uh, I think you have your science wrong. Lots of studies showing masks work and [b]lots of uninformed opinions on their harms[/b].

Do you seriously think enough time has passed to definitely declare there are no harms to masking. These things take literal years to show long term effects. And way to dismiss all the parents who have witnessed first-hand the negative effects of masking on their children.

And the studies don’t show cloth masks do much. That is pretty common knowledge now. N95s do work, but those protect the wearer. So just wear an N95 if you (or your kids) would like. But if you think something sold at Old Navy and worn by a 6 year old is going to protect a child with cancer, I think you are the one who has “your science wrong.”

"Yeah, science can only prove the points that I agree with..."

What? You aren’t responding at all to anything in the above post. Do you truly believe an old Navy cloth mask worn by a first grader is going to protect a classmate with a severely compromised immune system. Show me the science that proves that point …

[Anonymous]

I would much rather accommodate a medically fragile child by having my kids wear masks than have them in class with some of the violent kids who are there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nbc12.com/2022/12/12/aclu-parents-virginia-settle-lawsuit-school-masking-accommodations/

Does this mean what I think it means? That schools can require students to mask as an accommodation for others? What happens when someone filed a counter request for an accommodation that their child has a disability that makes masking difficult (such as social or speech delays)?

Is there a certain illness metric that must be met, or is the school now required to enforce universal masking if one kid makes a claim that they need an accommodation. Why now when COVID numbers are low? Will this apply to fly, RSV, etc.?

This seems like a giant can of worms and I’m sure I’ll get skewered, but I don’t want my young kids back in masks. My almost-5 year old spent nearly half his life in one and hated it. He has delays and it was a nightmare for us to get him to wear it. We are vaxxed and boosted, and masked when mandated, so no, not crazy Trumpers. But I am concerned we are opening the door to this concept of making a whole class of kids be a part of a student’s accommodation.

And FWIW I also don’t think a whole class of kids should be disrupted because one student with an IEP is having a violent meltdown. In general I think accommodations should not extend to altering the behavior of other students in class.

Speech delays have nothing to do with masking. ASD might. It's kinda sad you cannot be considerate to the child who may have health issues who otherwise may not be able to go to school. Being vaccinated and boosted helps your child not others as its not stopping transmission fully. Maybe you should homeschool.

You asset this rather confidently but we really don’t know that speech delays have nothing to do with masking. Masks may not cause delays, but they certainly don’t help them. And kids with autism/sensory issues may not like masking. But no one was worried about those kids during school closures/mask mandates. Even now, COVID is still the cause du jour for a certain segment of society who act as if it’s the only heath issue that matters.

I love when people assert so confidently that masks don't work but that they have been proven to cause speech delays.

Uh, I think you have your science wrong. Lots of studies showing masks work and [b]lots of uninformed opinions on their harms[/b].

Do you seriously think enough time has passed to definitely declare there are no harms to masking. These things take literal years to show long term effects. And way to dismiss all the parents who have witnessed first-hand the negative effects of masking on their children.

And the studies don’t show cloth masks do much. That is pretty common knowledge now. N95s do work, but those protect the wearer. So just wear an N95 if you (or your kids) would like. But if you think something sold at Old Navy and worn by a 6 year old is going to protect a child with cancer, I think you are the one who has “your science wrong.”

"Yeah, science can only prove the points that I agree with..."

What? You aren’t responding at all to anything in the above post. Do you truly believe an old Navy cloth mask worn by a first grader is going to protect a classmate with a severely compromised immune system. Show me the science that proves that point …

NP, my kid got covid in class when everyone was masking and lunch was being eaten outside. If covid is that much of a threat to a child's well-being, they should not be in crowded school classrooms.

This reminds me of my child's full day + extended care preschool class, where they sent a letter home informing parents that there was a child with cancer in the class and that no one should send the child to school with ANY cold symptoms. As much as I feel bad for a child with cancer, that's an unreasonable expectation for a preschool that functions as a daycare, and I ignored it and instead heeded the school's normal 24-h/no fever policy, which is what I signed up for. Kids will get sick at school, and if that's not an acceptable risk to a particular child, that child should not be in school.

[Anonymous]

Everyone forgets that this lawsuit wasn't filed because of a health concerns. It was a filed for political reasons to prove that republicans are wrong. Now, no cares anymore about the governor being a republican and the whole "trumper" thing has lost it's edge so people don't really care about masks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nbc12.com/2022/12/12/aclu-parents-virginia-settle-lawsuit-school-masking-accommodations/

Does this mean what I think it means? That schools can require students to mask as an accommodation for others? What happens when someone filed a counter request for an accommodation that their child has a disability that makes masking difficult (such as social or speech delays)?

Is there a certain illness metric that must be met, or is the school now required to enforce universal masking if one kid makes a claim that they need an accommodation. Why now when COVID numbers are low? Will this apply to fly, RSV, etc.?

This seems like a giant can of worms and I’m sure I’ll get skewered, but I don’t want my young kids back in masks. My almost-5 year old spent nearly half his life in one and hated it. He has delays and it was a nightmare for us to get him to wear it. We are vaxxed and boosted, and masked when mandated, so no, not crazy Trumpers. But I am concerned we are opening the door to this concept of making a whole class of kids be a part of a student’s accommodation.

And FWIW I also don’t think a whole class of kids should be disrupted because one student with an IEP is having a violent meltdown. In general I think accommodations should not extend to altering the behavior of other students in class.

Tell me you hate kids with disabilities without saying you hate kids with disabilities.

I have a kid with a disability. Who didn’t get services he’s entitled to per his IEP during school closures. But nice try.

Oh so you just hate THOSE kids with disabilities, you know the ones who don't have health immune systems. You're still being ableist.

DP - You need to stop. You aren't helping anyone with a disability with this attitude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone forgets that this lawsuit wasn't filed because of a health concerns. It was a filed for political reasons to prove that republicans are wrong. Now, no cares anymore about the governor being a republican and the whole "trumper" thing has lost it's edge so people don't really care about masks.

Yup. This settlement just says that parents can ask for masking and the school has to entertain the notion before rejecting it. At this point it's going to take a unicorn medical condition to actually require a classroom of kids to mask as a reasonable accommodation.

The school must engage in the interactive process with the student and his
or her parents to determine in the first instance whether some amount of
masking is necessary to satisfy the ADA and Rehabilitation Act. In making
that determination, a school should consider alternative modifications such
as one-way masking, staff or teacher masking, ventilation improvements,
and social distancing. If a school nevertheless determines that peer masking
is the reasonable modification necessary to satisfy the ADA and Rehabilitation
Act rights of a student with a disability, S.B. 739 and E.O. 2 do not
prohibit this modification. Any required masking should be limited to the
places and times necessary to satisfy the requirements of the ADA and Rehabilitation
Act. The school must not require a student with disabilities to
be segregated or excluded solely because of his or her need for peer masking
as a necessary reasonable modification.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the full settlement: https://www.acluva.org/sites/default/files/field_documents/seaman_v._virginia_settlement_agreement_fully_executed.pdf

I can't cut and paste from it, but it makes clear that this is not some kind of right to reinstitute 100% masking based on an unsupported allegation that the child is "immunocompromised" or whatever. Kids in Virginia still have rights NOT to mask - both under Virginia law and the ADA.

Thanks for posting! It's actually very narrow in saying that the plaintiffs can request masking as an accommodation (no guarantee it will be given) and explicitly says that schools also have to accommodate kids who don't want to mask by providing an alternate placement.

Sorry - that's backwards. Why should everyone else have to seek alternative placement rather than the student "requiring" their peers be masked? THAT's the one who needs to seek alternative placement.

Also what happens if no one else in the grade wants their kids to have to mask and they all requests an alternative placement ?

Students with disabilities have certain rights that don’t apply to non-disabled students. A kid with a disability has a right to a reasonable accommodation for their disability.

Asking a classroom of other students to do something they and their parents don't want them to is not a reasonable accommodation for the one student.

Well according to some people almost anything is reasonable if it's for someone with a disability because THEY have a right to whatever they need to make there educational experience perfect for them. Other kids? Not so much.....they can just take the hits. Anyone that doesn't see this as illogical and immoral is not thinking clearly. People have taken things way too far in an attempt to help those with disabilities (which is a huge percentage of kids now ). I don't think that is the spirit of the laws and I don't think it's possible with this mind set. Special education will bankrupt schools/towns and the country if this continues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, if a student in your child’s class has cancer, you’re not willing to have your kid mask?

My child is deaf. Your child will not wear a mask so my child can read her lips. Cancer student should stay home.

How about your deaf child stays home since she can't hear? See how this works?

A sigh language interpreter in the classroom doesn’t interfere with other kids ability to learn. Special software that helps communicate doesn’t interfere with the other kids ability to learn A mask that makes it harder for a Teacher and classmates to be understood interferes with their ability to learn. One kids accommodations don’t interfere with the rest of the classes ability to learn while the other one does. See how that works?

A sign language interpreter is distracting to the kids with ADHD. Your kid should stay home.

I'm not sure if you are trying to be intentionally hurtful, or if you are mentally ill. You're point is not being made, all that you show is you're an a-hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the full settlement: https://www.acluva.org/sites/default/files/field_documents/seaman_v._virginia_settlement_agreement_fully_executed.pdf

I can't cut and paste from it, but it makes clear that this is not some kind of right to reinstitute 100% masking based on an unsupported allegation that the child is "immunocompromised" or whatever. Kids in Virginia still have rights NOT to mask - both under Virginia law and the ADA.

Thanks for posting! It's actually very narrow in saying that the plaintiffs can request masking as an accommodation (no guarantee it will be given) and explicitly says that schools also have to accommodate kids who don't want to mask by providing an alternate placement.

Sorry - that's backwards. Why should everyone else have to seek alternative placement rather than the student "requiring" their peers be masked? THAT's the one who needs to seek alternative placement.

Also what happens if no one else in the grade wants their kids to have to mask and they all requests an alternative placement ?

Students with disabilities have certain rights that don’t apply to non-disabled students. A kid with a disability has a right to a reasonable accommodation for their disability.

Asking a classroom of other students to do something they and their parents don't want them to is not a reasonable accommodation for the one student.

Well according to some people almost anything is reasonable if it's for someone with a disability because THEY have a right to whatever they need to make there educational experience perfect for them. Other kids? Not so much.....they can just take the hits. Anyone that doesn't see this as illogical and immoral is not thinking clearly. People have taken things way too far in an attempt to help those with disabilities (which is a huge percentage of kids now ). I don't think that is the spirit of the laws and I don't think it's possible with this mind set. Special education will bankrupt schools/towns and the country if this continues.

Says parent of a student who probably is failing and you need an excuse to explain why. It's not the mask. It's not the ADHD kid. It's not the deaf kid. Your kid might just be dumb.