What really IS the point of AAP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I posted previously, but I think there is a unnecessary forced scarcity to this program. There are more deserving kids than there are slots, which sends parents into a tizzy. Level III should be expanded and made more substantive -- something that would take the pressure off of Level IV. Level II is a joke and something most teachers try to do anyway.

I agree but this won't happen county-wide because it's too close to tracking. It would make a lot of sense to move all kids around to different classrooms for core subjects based on ability at the elementary level but there would be a ton of pushback.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science nerd mom here. Tax bracket is over 250k.

Yes my kids play sports. Healthy bodies are important to us.

Yes my kids are in AAP. Healthy minds are important to us.

AAP is the only reason why we are in FCPS or living in Fairfax county. We would otherwise live in CA.

AAP exists in part to keep the tax bracket average here high. Without it, a good portion of Fairfax county would just move. It’s very expensive to live here, and honestly without kids we could live in a more affordable area. The tracking works for us.

Creating this kind of competitive educational system also does one more thing: instead of teaching 1-4 different levels of kids in one class at a school, it’s down to about 1-2 for gen Ed and and AAP. It is a little easier for teachers. And I think helpful is raising kids up without lowering kids down.

Do I think it’s fair? The reality is that it is done in other counties/states but not so blatantly and not so much on such a large scale. The other reality is that a lot of parents assume their kids will get in and get mad when their kids don’t get in. So the OPs question gets posted much more often because people become aware of the difference. This is leads to my next observation:

I have one kid who is extremely intelligent (in aap) and another who is not as gifted in math (not in aap). But both do well because they know there is another group of kids who are in the smart class. The awareness that intelligence is awarded is important to them at this age and having local level IV is good.

In that aspect, it’s nice to have AAP. I think if there was a longitudinal study to see the effects of having this separation on overall graduation levels and advanced education in fcps that would most likely be the reason to keep aap vs eliminate it. But my observation is that it is good for our kids overall- even if they don’t get into aap.

But it IS lowering kids down. AAP kids frequently act entitled and like they are better than he general Ed kids and are frequently treated that way, too. Our school has a “fusion lab” with really cool stem stuff. My AAP kid is in there frequently and says it’s super fun, but my non-AAP kid has never been in there. The AAP class this year got an extra field trip that the gen ed kids didn’t get. How do you think that makes the gen ed kids feel? Like they’re not good enough.

Oh well. Life's not fair. Those AAP kids will also be getting higher salaries and live in nicer neighborhoods. Or do you think all of society should convert to socialism?

Hahahahaa, this is absolutely not the case. I know two former AAP/TJ kids - both are government employees. One lives in Burke, the other lives in Reston.

Wow, you know a whole two students? Have you contacted the american sociological association to publish your study? I was talking ON AVERAGE, genius. Clearly somebody never went to AAP lol

lol, AAP is a fairfax county thing, didn't exist where I grew up. My point is that AAP and even TJ do not have the long-lasting impact that you seem to think it does. Also, outside of this small community, nobody cares what high school you or your kid went to. Do you think tech bros out west are asking Brendan and Ella what high school they went to when they're interviewing for jobs? Nope nope nope.

- Ivy league undergrad, turned down an ivy league grad school for a better more rigorous curriculum, worked in tech for 20 years, now retired at 45. Tell me your quals, sweetie pie.

I don't think AAP has any effect at all. I just think the kids in AAP are intellectually superior to those that are not. Fellow ivy leaguer here, but only for my PhD

I would not say they are "intellectually superior," necessarily. I think they are likely above average kids who have spent the time or their parents pushed them in through an appeal, etc. Not that it's a bad thing, but I think you are kidding yourself if you think every AAP kid is "intellectually superior."

The part that is unfair is that through exposure to that peer group, those kids advance more than a kid with equal IQ who doesn't get accepted and is stuck with the Gen Ed program. Instead of having 20% of the FCPS kids own AAP, they should improve the Gen Ed program, give the under achievers the help they need, and have a very small AAP program for the 3-5% that are actually gifted.

The way the program was initially designed, it was supposed to include intellectually gifted students and other students who could keep up and fill out the classes to give the gifted students a large cohort. The program has expanded somewhat over time. But that's how it started and that's how it is now, too.

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It is just unnecessary to have 20% of the kids (50% in some schools) in a special program. Other kids could keep up, too. Just raise the bar for everyone and get rid of it. It’s so divisive but it makes the parents feel special.

Getting rid of AAP would lower the bar for everyone, not raise it.

I’m a parent of a kid in AAP. I don’t feel “special” that my kid is in AAP. I’m appreciative that she’s in an environment that challenges her and feeds her curiosity for learning.

I have kids in both. It would not lower the bar! The AAP stuff was presented in a more creative way and a little more in depth. All but the weakest students could handle AAP and the weakest students are the ones who actually need the help, not the brightest.

The major difference is math, which would be addressed in base schools. AAP is good, but there is no reason why 90% of it could not be taught to all but. Few Gen Ed students. It’s just not that special. I live in a high performing school district in another state and their classrooms had many of the same textbooks and approaches that my older kid had in AAP, aside from math enrichment. Having that experience really makes me think. My younger kid got ripped off in FCPS. The Gen Ed kids get really screwed in all of this.

I disagree. Thanks to COVID the learning gaps have grown considerably.

Also, all kids need help in school. Granted, the level of help varies with the child's capabilities, but saying that only the "weakest" students need help is stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted previously, but I think there is a unnecessary forced scarcity to this program. There are more deserving kids than there are slots, which sends parents into a tizzy. Level III should be expanded and made more substantive -- something that would take the pressure off of Level IV. Level II is a joke and something most teachers try to do anyway.

I agree but this won't happen county-wide because it's too close to tracking. It would make a lot of sense to move all kids around to different classrooms for core subjects based on ability at the elementary level but there would be a ton of pushback.

I understand that grouping kids based on ability isn't the current education norm, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work if done right (challenging work for all, make sure kids continue to push forward on all levels, etc). Again, we're just asking too much of teachers too. If you have kids below grade level, at grade level, above and way above... they will teach to below and at grade level. Kids above grade level are ignored and thus why people go nuts about AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted previously, but I think there is a unnecessary forced scarcity to this program. There are more deserving kids than there are slots, which sends parents into a tizzy. Level III should be expanded and made more substantive -- something that would take the pressure off of Level IV. Level II is a joke and something most teachers try to do anyway.

I agree but this won't happen county-wide because it's too close to tracking. It would make a lot of sense to move all kids around to different classrooms for core subjects based on ability at the elementary level but there would be a ton of pushback.

I understand that grouping kids based on ability isn't the current education norm, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work if done right (challenging work for all, make sure kids continue to push forward on all levels, etc). Again, we're just asking too much of teachers too. If you have kids below grade level, at grade level, above and way above... they will teach to below and at grade level. Kids above grade level are ignored and thus why people go nuts about AAP.

Tracking is often permanent because it's hard to catch when you fall behind progressively more every year by design and when deciding on how to group in following years the status quo almost always wins. All you do is put the pressure of getting into AAP on whatever year tracking is decided and move it from the central committee to the principal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted previously, but I think there is a unnecessary forced scarcity to this program. There are more deserving kids than there are slots, which sends parents into a tizzy. Level III should be expanded and made more substantive -- something that would take the pressure off of Level IV. Level II is a joke and something most teachers try to do anyway.

I agree but this won't happen county-wide because it's too close to tracking. It would make a lot of sense to move all kids around to different classrooms for core subjects based on ability at the elementary level but there would be a ton of pushback.

I understand that grouping kids based on ability isn't the current education norm, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work if done right (challenging work for all, make sure kids continue to push forward on all levels, etc). Again, we're just asking too much of teachers too. If you have kids below grade level, at grade level, above and way above... they will teach to below and at grade level. Kids above grade level are ignored and thus why people go nuts about AAP.

Tracking is often permanent because it's hard to catch when you fall behind progressively more every year by design and when deciding on how to group in following years the status quo almost always wins. All you do is put the pressure of getting into AAP on whatever year tracking is decided and move it from the central committee to the principal

I'm asking this seriously and not to be argumentative -- Let's remove AAP level IV from the equation for a moment. Couldn't you use the SOLs and plethora of other testing to move groups around to have an actual robust level II and level III program? Theoretically, those programs are some level of "tracking."

You say they fall behind more progressively, but isn't this an opportunity to focus on those students and make sure they are all having their needs met to reach goals and targets. In our sports crazed country, we would never look at a group of fast runners or swimmers and tell them to slow down so others could catch up. We may get additional coaching/training for the slower group, find the race or style that works best for that athlete, but we wouldn't slow everyone down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted previously, but I think there is a unnecessary forced scarcity to this program. There are more deserving kids than there are slots, which sends parents into a tizzy. Level III should be expanded and made more substantive -- something that would take the pressure off of Level IV. Level II is a joke and something most teachers try to do anyway.

I agree but this won't happen county-wide because it's too close to tracking. It would make a lot of sense to move all kids around to different classrooms for core subjects based on ability at the elementary level but there would be a ton of pushback.

I understand that grouping kids based on ability isn't the current education norm, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work if done right (challenging work for all, make sure kids continue to push forward on all levels, etc). Again, we're just asking too much of teachers too. If you have kids below grade level, at grade level, above and way above... they will teach to below and at grade level. Kids above grade level are ignored and thus why people go nuts about AAP.

Tracking is often permanent because it's hard to catch when you fall behind progressively more every year by design and when deciding on how to group in following years the status quo almost always wins. All you do is put the pressure of getting into AAP on whatever year tracking is decided and move it from the central committee to the principal

I'm asking this seriously and not to be argumentative -- Let's remove AAP level IV from the equation for a moment. Couldn't you use the SOLs and plethora of other testing to move groups around to have an actual robust level II and level III program? Theoretically, those programs are some level of "tracking."

you could do that now, move kids in an out of levels based on SOLs and other scores, but the county has decided that once a kid is in they are in. Is there any reason to believe that tracking would be different.

You say they fall behind more progressively, but isn't this an opportunity to focus on those students and make sure they are all having their needs met to reach goals and targets. In our sports crazed country, we would never look at a group of fast runners or swimmers and tell them to slow down so others could catch up. We may get additional coaching/training for the slower group, find the race or style that works best for that athlete, but we wouldn't slow everyone down.

None of what you describe happens in public elementary schools. Meanwhile, missing placement in advanced math in third means that by fourth you are a quarter year behind, placed at the start of 5th means a half year behind, placed at the start of 6th means a full year behind. That's how tracking works, it isn't some system where kids can freely move up and down because the gap is designed to widen every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted previously, but I think there is a unnecessary forced scarcity to this program. There are more deserving kids than there are slots, which sends parents into a tizzy. Level III should be expanded and made more substantive -- something that would take the pressure off of Level IV. Level II is a joke and something most teachers try to do anyway.

I agree but this won't happen county-wide because it's too close to tracking. It would make a lot of sense to move all kids around to different classrooms for core subjects based on ability at the elementary level but there would be a ton of pushback.

I understand that grouping kids based on ability isn't the current education norm, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work if done right (challenging work for all, make sure kids continue to push forward on all levels, etc). Again, we're just asking too much of teachers too. If you have kids below grade level, at grade level, above and way above... they will teach to below and at grade level. Kids above grade level are ignored and thus why people go nuts about AAP.

Tracking is often permanent because it's hard to catch when you fall behind progressively more every year by design and when deciding on how to group in following years the status quo almost always wins. All you do is put the pressure of getting into AAP on whatever year tracking is decided and move it from the central committee to the principal

I'm asking this seriously and not to be argumentative -- Let's remove AAP level IV from the equation for a moment. Couldn't you use the SOLs and plethora of other testing to move groups around to have an actual robust level II and level III program? Theoretically, those programs are some level of "tracking."

you could do that now, move kids in an out of levels based on SOLs and other scores, but the county has decided that once a kid is in they are in. Is there any reason to believe that tracking would be different.

You say they fall behind more progressively, but isn't this an opportunity to focus on those students and make sure they are all having their needs met to reach goals and targets. In our sports crazed country, we would never look at a group of fast runners or swimmers and tell them to slow down so others could catch up. We may get additional coaching/training for the slower group, find the race or style that works best for that athlete, but we wouldn't slow everyone down.

None of what you describe happens in public elementary schools. Meanwhile, missing placement in advanced math in third means that by fourth you are a quarter year behind, placed at the start of 5th means a half year behind, placed at the start of 6th means a full year behind. That's how tracking works, it isn't some system where kids can freely move up and down because the gap is designed to widen every year.

DP. Some kids start AAP and/or Advanced Math after 3rd grade, in 4th or 5th or 6th grade. They're "a year behind" in math but since it all spirals, it's not hard for them. MS and HS math is a bit different, kids cannot just skip Algebra 2 or Geometry (although some kids take Geometry during the summer). But in ES, they can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted previously, but I think there is a unnecessary forced scarcity to this program. There are more deserving kids than there are slots, which sends parents into a tizzy. Level III should be expanded and made more substantive -- something that would take the pressure off of Level IV. Level II is a joke and something most teachers try to do anyway.

I agree but this won't happen county-wide because it's too close to tracking. It would make a lot of sense to move all kids around to different classrooms for core subjects based on ability at the elementary level but there would be a ton of pushback.

I understand that grouping kids based on ability isn't the current education norm, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work if done right (challenging work for all, make sure kids continue to push forward on all levels, etc). Again, we're just asking too much of teachers too. If you have kids below grade level, at grade level, above and way above... they will teach to below and at grade level. Kids above grade level are ignored and thus why people go nuts about AAP.

Tracking is often permanent because it's hard to catch when you fall behind progressively more every year by design and when deciding on how to group in following years the status quo almost always wins. All you do is put the pressure of getting into AAP on whatever year tracking is decided and move it from the central committee to the principal

I'm asking this seriously and not to be argumentative -- Let's remove AAP level IV from the equation for a moment. Couldn't you use the SOLs and plethora of other testing to move groups around to have an actual robust level II and level III program? Theoretically, those programs are some level of "tracking."

you could do that now, move kids in an out of levels based on SOLs and other scores, but the county has decided that once a kid is in they are in. Is there any reason to believe that tracking would be different.

You say they fall behind more progressively, but isn't this an opportunity to focus on those students and make sure they are all having their needs met to reach goals and targets. In our sports crazed country, we would never look at a group of fast runners or swimmers and tell them to slow down so others could catch up. We may get additional coaching/training for the slower group, find the race or style that works best for that athlete, but we wouldn't slow everyone down.

None of what you describe happens in public elementary schools. Meanwhile, missing placement in advanced math in third means that by fourth you are a quarter year behind, placed at the start of 5th means a half year behind, placed at the start of 6th means a full year behind. That's how tracking works, it isn't some system where kids can freely move up and down because the gap is designed to widen every year.

DP. Some kids start AAP and/or Advanced Math after 3rd grade, in 4th or 5th or 6th grade. They're "a year behind" in math but since it all spirals, it's not hard for them. MS and HS math is a bit different, kids cannot just skip Algebra 2 or Geometry (although some kids take Geometry during the summer). But in ES, they can.

Math spirals, and strong kids can jump up anytime. My child had quite a lot of kids jump up into her gen Ed advanced math class at the beginning of 5th, and even a couple more jumped up at the start of 6th. They used SOL scores + teacher recommendations to decide which kids to place in the advanced class. Kids in regular math who earned very high SOL scores and teacher support tended to do well in the advanced class.

[Anonymous]

You say they fall behind more progressively, but isn't this an opportunity to focus on those students and make sure they are all having their needs met to reach goals and targets. In our sports crazed country, we would never look at a group of fast runners or swimmers and tell them to slow down so others could catch up. We may get additional coaching/training for the slower group, find the race or style that works best for that athlete, but we wouldn't slow everyone down.

None of what you describe happens in public elementary schools. Meanwhile, missing placement in advanced math in third means that by fourth you are a quarter year behind, placed at the start of 5th means a half year behind, placed at the start of 6th means a full year behind. That's how tracking works, it isn't some system where kids can freely move up and down because the gap is designed to widen every year.

But the kids take endless tests. If a kid is behind at the start of third grade, the goal should be to bring them up a full year at minimum by the end of the 3rd grade. If the student is able to achieve more, they switch groups and continue progressing (level II AAP for all). A child struggling needs to have their needs met to reach grade level. If that is not possible, special education provisions are in place. Someone who is above grade level in elementary school for a subject like math should have access to math specialists and pull outs as well -- a more robust level III.
The answer shouldn't be, we're afraid kids are behind and won't catch up so we can't elevate others - let's just lump everyone together. The answer should be, let's give teachers the time to focus on students of similar abilities and move them to where they need to be and further. That is 'a rising tides floats all boats' mentality. Instead, we leave teachers with 3-4 different levels in a classroom of 24 -- pretend that works and wish them luck. It just seems we say removing tracking is an equity issues, but don't solve the underlying issues, which take more money, work and time. Bring in reading and math specialists. Help kids achieve more all around.

[Anonymous]

What needs to happen is we need to switch to mastery based education or at least do it in Math

Follow along

In each math grade there are 50 math concepts to be mastered

Students take a pretest and are grouped

Some students will have already mastered all 50 concepts. They will be advanced a grade. If students know less than 25 concepts they will be reduced a grade.

Everyone will proceed at their own pace. The teacher will pull together small groups with students that are in the same general range of concepts learned.

This is what needs to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science nerd mom here. Tax bracket is over 250k.

Yes my kids play sports. Healthy bodies are important to us.

Yes my kids are in AAP. Healthy minds are important to us.

AAP is the only reason why we are in FCPS or living in Fairfax county. We would otherwise live in CA.

AAP exists in part to keep the tax bracket average here high. Without it, a good portion of Fairfax county would just move. It’s very expensive to live here, and honestly without kids we could live in a more affordable area. The tracking works for us.

Creating this kind of competitive educational system also does one more thing: instead of teaching 1-4 different levels of kids in one class at a school, it’s down to about 1-2 for gen Ed and and AAP. It is a little easier for teachers. And I think helpful is raising kids up without lowering kids down.

Do I think it’s fair? The reality is that it is done in other counties/states but not so blatantly and not so much on such a large scale. The other reality is that a lot of parents assume their kids will get in and get mad when their kids don’t get in. So the OPs question gets posted much more often because people become aware of the difference. This is leads to my next observation:

I have one kid who is extremely intelligent (in aap) and another who is not as gifted in math (not in aap). But both do well because they know there is another group of kids who are in the smart class. The awareness that intelligence is awarded is important to them at this age and having local level IV is good.

In that aspect, it’s nice to have AAP. I think if there was a longitudinal study to see the effects of having this separation on overall graduation levels and advanced education in fcps that would most likely be the reason to keep aap vs eliminate it. But my observation is that it is good for our kids overall- even if they don’t get into aap.

But it IS lowering kids down. AAP kids frequently act entitled and like they are better than he general Ed kids and are frequently treated that way, too. Our school has a “fusion lab” with really cool stem stuff. My AAP kid is in there frequently and says it’s super fun, but my non-AAP kid has never been in there. The AAP class this year got an extra field trip that the gen ed kids didn’t get. How do you think that makes the gen ed kids feel? Like they’re not good enough.

Oh well. Life's not fair. Those AAP kids will also be getting higher salaries and live in nicer neighborhoods. Or do you think all of society should convert to socialism?

Hahahahaa, this is absolutely not the case. I know two former AAP/TJ kids - both are government employees. One lives in Burke, the other lives in Reston.

Wow, you know a whole two students? Have you contacted the american sociological association to publish your study? I was talking ON AVERAGE, genius. Clearly somebody never went to AAP lol

lol, AAP is a fairfax county thing, didn't exist where I grew up. My point is that AAP and even TJ do not have the long-lasting impact that you seem to think it does. Also, outside of this small community, nobody cares what high school you or your kid went to. Do you think tech bros out west are asking Brendan and Ella what high school they went to when they're interviewing for jobs? Nope nope nope.

- Ivy league undergrad, turned down an ivy league grad school for a better more rigorous curriculum, worked in tech for 20 years, now retired at 45. Tell me your quals, sweetie pie.

I don't think AAP has any effect at all. I just think the kids in AAP are intellectually superior to those that are not. Fellow ivy leaguer here, but only for my PhD

I would not say they are "intellectually superior," necessarily. I think they are likely above average kids who have spent the time or their parents pushed them in through an appeal, etc. Not that it's a bad thing, but I think you are kidding yourself if you think every AAP kid is "intellectually superior."

The part that is unfair is that through exposure to that peer group, those kids advance more than a kid with equal IQ who doesn't get accepted and is stuck with the Gen Ed program. Instead of having 20% of the FCPS kids own AAP, they should improve the Gen Ed program, give the under achievers the help they need, and have a very small AAP program for the 3-5% that are actually gifted.

The way the program was initially designed, it was supposed to include intellectually gifted students and other students who could keep up and fill out the classes to give the gifted students a large cohort. The program has expanded somewhat over time. But that's how it started and that's how it is now, too.

.

It is just unnecessary to have 20% of the kids (50% in some schools) in a special program. Other kids could keep up, too. Just raise the bar for everyone and get rid of it. It’s so divisive but it makes the parents feel special.

Getting rid of AAP would lower the bar for everyone, not raise it.

I’m a parent of a kid in AAP. I don’t feel “special” that my kid is in AAP. I’m appreciative that she’s in an environment that challenges her and feeds her curiosity for learning.

My son also has a curiosity for learning, but his 131 COGAT wasn’t good enough for AAP. He’s clearly bright and would succeed in the AAP environment. Why does your daughter deserve it over my son? The admission process isn’t transparent or necessarily fair. Only those who manage to get in think it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science nerd mom here. Tax bracket is over 250k.

Yes my kids play sports. Healthy bodies are important to us.

Yes my kids are in AAP. Healthy minds are important to us.

AAP is the only reason why we are in FCPS or living in Fairfax county. We would otherwise live in CA.

AAP exists in part to keep the tax bracket average here high. Without it, a good portion of Fairfax county would just move. It’s very expensive to live here, and honestly without kids we could live in a more affordable area. The tracking works for us.

Creating this kind of competitive educational system also does one more thing: instead of teaching 1-4 different levels of kids in one class at a school, it’s down to about 1-2 for gen Ed and and AAP. It is a little easier for teachers. And I think helpful is raising kids up without lowering kids down.

Do I think it’s fair? The reality is that it is done in other counties/states but not so blatantly and not so much on such a large scale. The other reality is that a lot of parents assume their kids will get in and get mad when their kids don’t get in. So the OPs question gets posted much more often because people become aware of the difference. This is leads to my next observation:

I have one kid who is extremely intelligent (in aap) and another who is not as gifted in math (not in aap). But both do well because they know there is another group of kids who are in the smart class. The awareness that intelligence is awarded is important to them at this age and having local level IV is good.

In that aspect, it’s nice to have AAP. I think if there was a longitudinal study to see the effects of having this separation on overall graduation levels and advanced education in fcps that would most likely be the reason to keep aap vs eliminate it. But my observation is that it is good for our kids overall- even if they don’t get into aap.

But it IS lowering kids down. AAP kids frequently act entitled and like they are better than he general Ed kids and are frequently treated that way, too. Our school has a “fusion lab” with really cool stem stuff. My AAP kid is in there frequently and says it’s super fun, but my non-AAP kid has never been in there. The AAP class this year got an extra field trip that the gen ed kids didn’t get. How do you think that makes the gen ed kids feel? Like they’re not good enough.

Oh well. Life's not fair. Those AAP kids will also be getting higher salaries and live in nicer neighborhoods. Or do you think all of society should convert to socialism?

Hahahahaa, this is absolutely not the case. I know two former AAP/TJ kids - both are government employees. One lives in Burke, the other lives in Reston.

Wow, you know a whole two students? Have you contacted the american sociological association to publish your study? I was talking ON AVERAGE, genius. Clearly somebody never went to AAP lol

+1. What a Gen Ed response from that PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science nerd mom here. Tax bracket is over 250k.

Yes my kids play sports. Healthy bodies are important to us.

Yes my kids are in AAP. Healthy minds are important to us.

AAP is the only reason why we are in FCPS or living in Fairfax county. We would otherwise live in CA.

AAP exists in part to keep the tax bracket average here high. Without it, a good portion of Fairfax county would just move. It’s very expensive to live here, and honestly without kids we could live in a more affordable area. The tracking works for us.

Creating this kind of competitive educational system also does one more thing: instead of teaching 1-4 different levels of kids in one class at a school, it’s down to about 1-2 for gen Ed and and AAP. It is a little easier for teachers. And I think helpful is raising kids up without lowering kids down.

Do I think it’s fair? The reality is that it is done in other counties/states but not so blatantly and not so much on such a large scale. The other reality is that a lot of parents assume their kids will get in and get mad when their kids don’t get in. So the OPs question gets posted much more often because people become aware of the difference. This is leads to my next observation:

I have one kid who is extremely intelligent (in aap) and another who is not as gifted in math (not in aap). But both do well because they know there is another group of kids who are in the smart class. The awareness that intelligence is awarded is important to them at this age and having local level IV is good.

In that aspect, it’s nice to have AAP. I think if there was a longitudinal study to see the effects of having this separation on overall graduation levels and advanced education in fcps that would most likely be the reason to keep aap vs eliminate it. But my observation is that it is good for our kids overall- even if they don’t get into aap.

But it IS lowering kids down. AAP kids frequently act entitled and like they are better than he general Ed kids and are frequently treated that way, too. Our school has a “fusion lab” with really cool stem stuff. My AAP kid is in there frequently and says it’s super fun, but my non-AAP kid has never been in there. The AAP class this year got an extra field trip that the gen ed kids didn’t get. How do you think that makes the gen ed kids feel? Like they’re not good enough.

Oh well. Life's not fair. Those AAP kids will also be getting higher salaries and live in nicer neighborhoods. Or do you think all of society should convert to socialism?

Hahahahaa, this is absolutely not the case. I know two former AAP/TJ kids - both are government employees. One lives in Burke, the other lives in Reston.

Wow, you know a whole two students? Have you contacted the american sociological association to publish your study? I was talking ON AVERAGE, genius. Clearly somebody never went to AAP lol

lol, AAP is a fairfax county thing, didn't exist where I grew up. My point is that AAP and even TJ do not have the long-lasting impact that you seem to think it does. Also, outside of this small community, nobody cares what high school you or your kid went to. Do you think tech bros out west are asking Brendan and Ella what high school they went to when they're interviewing for jobs? Nope nope nope.

- Ivy league undergrad, turned down an ivy league grad school for a better more rigorous curriculum, worked in tech for 20 years, now retired at 45. Tell me your quals, sweetie pie.

I don't think AAP has any effect at all. I just think the kids in AAP are intellectually superior to those that are not. Fellow ivy leaguer here, but only for my PhD

I would not say they are "intellectually superior," necessarily. I think they are likely above average kids who have spent the time or their parents pushed them in through an appeal, etc. Not that it's a bad thing, but I think you are kidding yourself if you think every AAP kid is "intellectually superior."

The part that is unfair is that through exposure to that peer group, those kids advance more than a kid with equal IQ who doesn't get accepted and is stuck with the Gen Ed program. Instead of having 20% of the FCPS kids own AAP, they should improve the Gen Ed program, give the under achievers the help they need, and have a very small AAP program for the 3-5% that are actually gifted.

The way the program was initially designed, it was supposed to include intellectually gifted students and other students who could keep up and fill out the classes to give the gifted students a large cohort. The program has expanded somewhat over time. But that's how it started and that's how it is now, too.

.

It is just unnecessary to have 20% of the kids (50% in some schools) in a special program. Other kids could keep up, too. Just raise the bar for everyone and get rid of it. It’s so divisive but it makes the parents feel special.

Not going to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science nerd mom here. Tax bracket is over 250k.

Yes my kids play sports. Healthy bodies are important to us.

Yes my kids are in AAP. Healthy minds are important to us.

AAP is the only reason why we are in FCPS or living in Fairfax county. We would otherwise live in CA.

AAP exists in part to keep the tax bracket average here high. Without it, a good portion of Fairfax county would just move. It’s very expensive to live here, and honestly without kids we could live in a more affordable area. The tracking works for us.

Creating this kind of competitive educational system also does one more thing: instead of teaching 1-4 different levels of kids in one class at a school, it’s down to about 1-2 for gen Ed and and AAP. It is a little easier for teachers. And I think helpful is raising kids up without lowering kids down.

Do I think it’s fair? The reality is that it is done in other counties/states but not so blatantly and not so much on such a large scale. The other reality is that a lot of parents assume their kids will get in and get mad when their kids don’t get in. So the OPs question gets posted much more often because people become aware of the difference. This is leads to my next observation:

I have one kid who is extremely intelligent (in aap) and another who is not as gifted in math (not in aap). But both do well because they know there is another group of kids who are in the smart class. The awareness that intelligence is awarded is important to them at this age and having local level IV is good.

In that aspect, it’s nice to have AAP. I think if there was a longitudinal study to see the effects of having this separation on overall graduation levels and advanced education in fcps that would most likely be the reason to keep aap vs eliminate it. But my observation is that it is good for our kids overall- even if they don’t get into aap.

But it IS lowering kids down. AAP kids frequently act entitled and like they are better than he general Ed kids and are frequently treated that way, too. Our school has a “fusion lab” with really cool stem stuff. My AAP kid is in there frequently and says it’s super fun, but my non-AAP kid has never been in there. The AAP class this year got an extra field trip that the gen ed kids didn’t get. How do you think that makes the gen ed kids feel? Like they’re not good enough.

Oh well. Life's not fair. Those AAP kids will also be getting higher salaries and live in nicer neighborhoods. Or do you think all of society should convert to socialism?

Hahahahaa, this is absolutely not the case. I know two former AAP/TJ kids - both are government employees. One lives in Burke, the other lives in Reston.

Wow, you know a whole two students? Have you contacted the american sociological association to publish your study? I was talking ON AVERAGE, genius. Clearly somebody never went to AAP lol

+1. What a Gen Ed response from that PP.

What a typical unemployed rich mom response. Yes, honey, we know you're living off daddy's income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science nerd mom here. Tax bracket is over 250k.

Yes my kids play sports. Healthy bodies are important to us.

Yes my kids are in AAP. Healthy minds are important to us.

AAP is the only reason why we are in FCPS or living in Fairfax county. We would otherwise live in CA.

AAP exists in part to keep the tax bracket average here high. Without it, a good portion of Fairfax county would just move. It’s very expensive to live here, and honestly without kids we could live in a more affordable area. The tracking works for us.

Creating this kind of competitive educational system also does one more thing: instead of teaching 1-4 different levels of kids in one class at a school, it’s down to about 1-2 for gen Ed and and AAP. It is a little easier for teachers. And I think helpful is raising kids up without lowering kids down.

Do I think it’s fair? The reality is that it is done in other counties/states but not so blatantly and not so much on such a large scale. The other reality is that a lot of parents assume their kids will get in and get mad when their kids don’t get in. So the OPs question gets posted much more often because people become aware of the difference. This is leads to my next observation:

I have one kid who is extremely intelligent (in aap) and another who is not as gifted in math (not in aap). But both do well because they know there is another group of kids who are in the smart class. The awareness that intelligence is awarded is important to them at this age and having local level IV is good.

In that aspect, it’s nice to have AAP. I think if there was a longitudinal study to see the effects of having this separation on overall graduation levels and advanced education in fcps that would most likely be the reason to keep aap vs eliminate it. But my observation is that it is good for our kids overall- even if they don’t get into aap.

But it IS lowering kids down. AAP kids frequently act entitled and like they are better than he general Ed kids and are frequently treated that way, too. Our school has a “fusion lab” with really cool stem stuff. My AAP kid is in there frequently and says it’s super fun, but my non-AAP kid has never been in there. The AAP class this year got an extra field trip that the gen ed kids didn’t get. How do you think that makes the gen ed kids feel? Like they’re not good enough.

Oh well. Life's not fair. Those AAP kids will also be getting higher salaries and live in nicer neighborhoods. Or do you think all of society should convert to socialism?

Hahahahaa, this is absolutely not the case. I know two former AAP/TJ kids - both are government employees. One lives in Burke, the other lives in Reston.

Wow, you know a whole two students? Have you contacted the american sociological association to publish your study? I was talking ON AVERAGE, genius. Clearly somebody never went to AAP lol

lol, AAP is a fairfax county thing, didn't exist where I grew up. My point is that AAP and even TJ do not have the long-lasting impact that you seem to think it does. Also, outside of this small community, nobody cares what high school you or your kid went to. Do you think tech bros out west are asking Brendan and Ella what high school they went to when they're interviewing for jobs? Nope nope nope.

- Ivy league undergrad, turned down an ivy league grad school for a better more rigorous curriculum, worked in tech for 20 years, now retired at 45. Tell me your quals, sweetie pie.

I don't think AAP has any effect at all. I just think the kids in AAP are intellectually superior to those that are not. Fellow ivy leaguer here, but only for my PhD

I would not say they are "intellectually superior," necessarily. I think they are likely above average kids who have spent the time or their parents pushed them in through an appeal, etc. Not that it's a bad thing, but I think you are kidding yourself if you think every AAP kid is "intellectually superior."

The part that is unfair is that through exposure to that peer group, those kids advance more than a kid with equal IQ who doesn't get accepted and is stuck with the Gen Ed program. Instead of having 20% of the FCPS kids own AAP, they should improve the Gen Ed program, give the under achievers the help they need, and have a very small AAP program for the 3-5% that are actually gifted.

The way the program was initially designed, it was supposed to include intellectually gifted students and other students who could keep up and fill out the classes to give the gifted students a large cohort. The program has expanded somewhat over time. But that's how it started and that's how it is now, too.

.

It is just unnecessary to have 20% of the kids (50% in some schools) in a special program. Other kids could keep up, too. Just raise the bar for everyone and get rid of it. It’s so divisive but it makes the parents feel special.

Getting rid of AAP would lower the bar for everyone, not raise it.

I’m a parent of a kid in AAP. I don’t feel “special” that my kid is in AAP. I’m appreciative that she’s in an environment that challenges her and feeds her curiosity for learning.

My son also has a curiosity for learning, but his 131 COGAT wasn’t good enough for AAP. He’s clearly bright and would succeed in the AAP environment. Why does your daughter deserve it over my son? The admission process isn’t transparent or necessarily fair. Only those who manage to get in think it is.

IMO your son SHOULD be in AAP. This doesn't mean we should eliminate AAP. What has happened is the political school board and administrators have decided to socially engineer the program so that kids who have less intelligence but are teachers' pets, or meet other "equity" based characteristics will get into the program. This doesn't mean a lot of kids don't need and thrive in AAP. It just means it is watered down and has become a social engineering tool to some extent. If you want to change it, vote out the wokies on the school board