Power of prayer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

God doesn’t get a gun and kill people. Another thread jacked by people who claim not to believe in God, yet spend time debating God.

Maybe you misunderstand the meaning of the word “debate”. This is not an echo chamber.

I know it is hard to believe in things without evidence, and frustrating when that is pointed out to you. But when you resort to ad hominem — attaching the person making the point - that clearly indicates you can’t answer the point itself.

Maybe you should just not reply to those posts you don’t like? Just a suggestion.

Maybe you could let people practice their own religion, even if you don’t like it?

Who am I not letting practice their own religion? Expressing my opinion and beliefs somehow prevents you from exercising your own? No, it does not.

What you want is to be able to preach without being questioned. That's not what this forum is for. That's what your church is for.

I am not a preacher or pastor or minister and am not preaching to anyone. This is a religious forum and this is exactly where people come to discuss religion.

This forum is exactly for discussion of religion.

You are wrong about one thing: It is not a "religious" forum, it is a "religion" forum, and that is why it is titled as such. So then why do you prefer religion not be objectively discussed? Are you saying that to discuss religion requires belief in one?

DP. What you’ve done is mostly drive off people who don’t have the patience to explain—for the umpteenth time—things like free will, original sin, and the problem of evil on a thread that’s about prayer. You’ve hijacked a thread on prayer and made it hard to follow for anybody like me who was considering jumping in now.

It would be great to return this thread to the subject of prayer.

Lol. You are the one who took this off topic with your ad hominem. And again you neglect all the questions asked because you can't answer them. But fine, let's ignore all that and get back to the original topic:

There is no evidence for any "power of prayer". Certainly not beyond the "meditative/reflective" benefits some have outlined.

Science cannot prove or disprove the power or lack of power of prayer. Science doesn’t have to tools to do so.

Science doesn't have to disprove a negative. Science can't disprove the existence of the tooth fairy or a nearly infinite list of non-existent things. You know this, I am confident.

It is the burden of the person making a claim to provide evidence of that claim. Where is the evidence to support yours?

BTW, the scientists who have made the claim there is no power of prayer actually DO HAVE EVIDENCE to support their claim: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-mar-31-sci-prayer31-story.html

Saying that prayer can heal other people is a pretty big claim. It doesn’t surprise me that there is evidence to the contrary. There is plenty of evidence that people who pray regularly are happier, healthier, and can tolerate pain longer. And yes, it works better than meditation.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16049627/

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/the-science-of-prayer-2.html

And it doesn't matter which God, if any, that you pray to! Any meditation has positive, calming effects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

God doesn’t get a gun and kill people. Another thread jacked by people who claim not to believe in God, yet spend time debating God.

Maybe you misunderstand the meaning of the word “debate”. This is not an echo chamber.

I know it is hard to believe in things without evidence, and frustrating when that is pointed out to you. But when you resort to ad hominem — attaching the person making the point - that clearly indicates you can’t answer the point itself.

Maybe you should just not reply to those posts you don’t like? Just a suggestion.

Maybe you could let people practice their own religion, even if you don’t like it?

Who am I not letting practice their own religion? Expressing my opinion and beliefs somehow prevents you from exercising your own? No, it does not.

What you want is to be able to preach without being questioned. That's not what this forum is for. That's what your church is for.

I am not a preacher or pastor or minister and am not preaching to anyone. This is a religious forum and this is exactly where people come to discuss religion.

This forum is exactly for discussion of religion.

You are wrong about one thing: It is not a "religious" forum, it is a "religion" forum, and that is why it is titled as such. So then why do you prefer religion not be objectively discussed? Are you saying that to discuss religion requires belief in one?

DP. What you’ve done is mostly drive off people who don’t have the patience to explain—for the umpteenth time—things like free will, original sin, and the problem of evil on a thread that’s about prayer. You’ve hijacked a thread on prayer and made it hard to follow for anybody like me who was considering jumping in now.

It would be great to return this thread to the subject of prayer.

Lol. You are the one who took this off topic with your ad hominem. And again you neglect all the questions asked because you can't answer them. But fine, let's ignore all that and get back to the original topic:

There is no evidence for any "power of prayer". Certainly not beyond the "meditative/reflective" benefits some have outlined.

Science cannot prove or disprove the power or lack of power of prayer. Science doesn’t have to tools to do so.

Science doesn't have to disprove a negative. Science can't disprove the existence of the tooth fairy or a nearly infinite list of non-existent things. You know this, I am confident.

It is the burden of the person making a claim to provide evidence of that claim. Where is the evidence to support yours?

BTW, the scientists who have made the claim there is no power of prayer actually DO HAVE EVIDENCE to support their claim: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-mar-31-sci-prayer31-story.html

Saying that prayer can heal other people is a pretty big claim. It doesn’t surprise me that there is evidence to the contrary. There is plenty of evidence that people who pray regularly are happier, healthier, and can tolerate pain longer. And yes, it works better than meditation.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16049627/

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/the-science-of-prayer-2.html

And it doesn't matter which God, if any, that you pray to! Any meditation has positive, calming effects.

That’s not what the post you are replying to says.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

God doesn’t get a gun and kill people. Another thread jacked by people who claim not to believe in God, yet spend time debating God.

Maybe you misunderstand the meaning of the word “debate”. This is not an echo chamber.

I know it is hard to believe in things without evidence, and frustrating when that is pointed out to you. But when you resort to ad hominem — attaching the person making the point - that clearly indicates you can’t answer the point itself.

Maybe you should just not reply to those posts you don’t like? Just a suggestion.

Maybe you could let people practice their own religion, even if you don’t like it?

Who am I not letting practice their own religion? Expressing my opinion and beliefs somehow prevents you from exercising your own? No, it does not.

What you want is to be able to preach without being questioned. That's not what this forum is for. That's what your church is for.

I am not a preacher or pastor or minister and am not preaching to anyone. This is a religious forum and this is exactly where people come to discuss religion.

This forum is exactly for discussion of religion.

You are wrong about one thing: It is not a "religious" forum, it is a "religion" forum, and that is why it is titled as such. So then why do you prefer religion not be objectively discussed? Are you saying that to discuss religion requires belief in one?

DP. What you’ve done is mostly drive off people who don’t have the patience to explain—for the umpteenth time—things like free will, original sin, and the problem of evil on a thread that’s about prayer. You’ve hijacked a thread on prayer and made it hard to follow for anybody like me who was considering jumping in now.

It would be great to return this thread to the subject of prayer.

Lol. You are the one who took this off topic with your ad hominem. And again you neglect all the questions asked because you can't answer them. But fine, let's ignore all that and get back to the original topic:

There is no evidence for any "power of prayer". Certainly not beyond the "meditative/reflective" benefits some have outlined.

Science cannot prove or disprove the power or lack of power of prayer. Science doesn’t have to tools to do so.

Science doesn't have to disprove a negative. Science can't disprove the existence of the tooth fairy or a nearly infinite list of non-existent things. You know this, I am confident.

It is the burden of the person making a claim to provide evidence of that claim. Where is the evidence to support yours?

BTW, the scientists who have made the claim there is no power of prayer actually DO HAVE EVIDENCE to support their claim: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-mar-31-sci-prayer31-story.html

Saying that prayer can heal other people is a pretty big claim. It doesn’t surprise me that there is evidence to the contrary. There is plenty of evidence that people who pray regularly are happier, healthier, and can tolerate pain longer. And yes, it works better than meditation.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16049627/

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/the-science-of-prayer-2.html

And it doesn't matter which God, if any, that you pray to! Any meditation has positive, calming effects.

That’s not what the post you are replying to says.

pp is adding to the conversation; not affirming a previous comment. Happens all the time and is perfectly legitimate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

God doesn’t get a gun and kill people. Another thread jacked by people who claim not to believe in God, yet spend time debating God.

Maybe you misunderstand the meaning of the word “debate”. This is not an echo chamber.

I know it is hard to believe in things without evidence, and frustrating when that is pointed out to you. But when you resort to ad hominem — attaching the person making the point - that clearly indicates you can’t answer the point itself.

Maybe you should just not reply to those posts you don’t like? Just a suggestion.

Maybe you could let people practice their own religion, even if you don’t like it?

Who am I not letting practice their own religion? Expressing my opinion and beliefs somehow prevents you from exercising your own? No, it does not.

What you want is to be able to preach without being questioned. That's not what this forum is for. That's what your church is for.

I am not a preacher or pastor or minister and am not preaching to anyone. This is a religious forum and this is exactly where people come to discuss religion.

This forum is exactly for discussion of religion.

You are wrong about one thing: It is not a "religious" forum, it is a "religion" forum, and that is why it is titled as such. So then why do you prefer religion not be objectively discussed? Are you saying that to discuss religion requires belief in one?

DP. What you’ve done is mostly drive off people who don’t have the patience to explain—for the umpteenth time—things like free will, original sin, and the problem of evil on a thread that’s about prayer. You’ve hijacked a thread on prayer and made it hard to follow for anybody like me who was considering jumping in now.

It would be great to return this thread to the subject of prayer.

Lol. You are the one who took this off topic with your ad hominem. And again you neglect all the questions asked because you can't answer them. But fine, let's ignore all that and get back to the original topic:

There is no evidence for any "power of prayer". Certainly not beyond the "meditative/reflective" benefits some have outlined.

Science cannot prove or disprove the power or lack of power of prayer. Science doesn’t have to tools to do so.

Science doesn't have to disprove a negative. Science can't disprove the existence of the tooth fairy or a nearly infinite list of non-existent things. You know this, I am confident.

It is the burden of the person making a claim to provide evidence of that claim. Where is the evidence to support yours?

BTW, the scientists who have made the claim there is no power of prayer actually DO HAVE EVIDENCE to support their claim: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-mar-31-sci-prayer31-story.html

Saying that prayer can heal other people is a pretty big claim. It doesn’t surprise me that there is evidence to the contrary. There is plenty of evidence that people who pray regularly are happier, healthier, and can tolerate pain longer. And yes, it works better than meditation.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16049627/

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/the-science-of-prayer-2.html

And it doesn't matter which God, if any, that you pray to! Any meditation has positive, calming effects.

That’s not what the post you are replying to says.

pp is adding to the conversation; not affirming a previous comment. Happens all the time and is perfectly legitimate.

Ok. But you literally directly contradicted the study that you quoted.

You aren’t contributing to a conversation. You are deliberately posting false information that contradicts science, but confirms your worldview.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

God doesn’t get a gun and kill people. Another thread jacked by people who claim not to believe in God, yet spend time debating God.

Maybe you misunderstand the meaning of the word “debate”. This is not an echo chamber.

I know it is hard to believe in things without evidence, and frustrating when that is pointed out to you. But when you resort to ad hominem — attaching the person making the point - that clearly indicates you can’t answer the point itself.

Maybe you should just not reply to those posts you don’t like? Just a suggestion.

Maybe you could let people practice their own religion, even if you don’t like it?

Who am I not letting practice their own religion? Expressing my opinion and beliefs somehow prevents you from exercising your own? No, it does not.

What you want is to be able to preach without being questioned. That's not what this forum is for. That's what your church is for.

I am not a preacher or pastor or minister and am not preaching to anyone. This is a religious forum and this is exactly where people come to discuss religion.

This forum is exactly for discussion of religion.

You are wrong about one thing: It is not a "religious" forum, it is a "religion" forum, and that is why it is titled as such. So then why do you prefer religion not be objectively discussed? Are you saying that to discuss religion requires belief in one?

DP. What you’ve done is mostly drive off people who don’t have the patience to explain—for the umpteenth time—things like free will, original sin, and the problem of evil on a thread that’s about prayer. You’ve hijacked a thread on prayer and made it hard to follow for anybody like me who was considering jumping in now.

It would be great to return this thread to the subject of prayer.

Lol. You are the one who took this off topic with your ad hominem. And again you neglect all the questions asked because you can't answer them. But fine, let's ignore all that and get back to the original topic:

There is no evidence for any "power of prayer". Certainly not beyond the "meditative/reflective" benefits some have outlined.

Science cannot prove or disprove the power or lack of power of prayer. Science doesn’t have to tools to do so.

Science doesn't have to disprove a negative. Science can't disprove the existence of the tooth fairy or a nearly infinite list of non-existent things. You know this, I am confident.

It is the burden of the person making a claim to provide evidence of that claim. Where is the evidence to support yours?

BTW, the scientists who have made the claim there is no power of prayer actually DO HAVE EVIDENCE to support their claim: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-mar-31-sci-prayer31-story.html

Saying that prayer can heal other people is a pretty big claim. It doesn’t surprise me that there is evidence to the contrary. There is plenty of evidence that people who pray regularly are happier, healthier, and can tolerate pain longer. And yes, it works better than meditation.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16049627/

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/the-science-of-prayer-2.html

And it doesn't matter which God, if any, that you pray to! Any meditation has positive, calming effects.

That’s not what the post you are replying to says.

pp is adding to the conversation; not affirming a previous comment. Happens all the time and is perfectly legitimate.

Ok. But you literally directly contradicted the study that you quoted.

You aren’t contributing to a conversation. You are deliberately posting false information that contradicts science, but confirms your worldview.

NP. The science is clear that people who pray regularly are happier, healthier, and can tolerate pain longer.

Your attempts to disrupt this thread are getting sillier by the post. Are you actually saying that only prayers to the Christian god get answered?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

God doesn’t get a gun and kill people. Another thread jacked by people who claim not to believe in God, yet spend time debating God.

Maybe you misunderstand the meaning of the word “debate”. This is not an echo chamber.

I know it is hard to believe in things without evidence, and frustrating when that is pointed out to you. But when you resort to ad hominem — attaching the person making the point - that clearly indicates you can’t answer the point itself.

Maybe you should just not reply to those posts you don’t like? Just a suggestion.

Maybe you could let people practice their own religion, even if you don’t like it?

Who am I not letting practice their own religion? Expressing my opinion and beliefs somehow prevents you from exercising your own? No, it does not.

What you want is to be able to preach without being questioned. That's not what this forum is for. That's what your church is for.

I am not a preacher or pastor or minister and am not preaching to anyone. This is a religious forum and this is exactly where people come to discuss religion.

This forum is exactly for discussion of religion.

You are wrong about one thing: It is not a "religious" forum, it is a "religion" forum, and that is why it is titled as such. So then why do you prefer religion not be objectively discussed? Are you saying that to discuss religion requires belief in one?

DP. What you’ve done is mostly drive off people who don’t have the patience to explain—for the umpteenth time—things like free will, original sin, and the problem of evil on a thread that’s about prayer. You’ve hijacked a thread on prayer and made it hard to follow for anybody like me who was considering jumping in now.

It would be great to return this thread to the subject of prayer.

Lol. You are the one who took this off topic with your ad hominem. And again you neglect all the questions asked because you can't answer them. But fine, let's ignore all that and get back to the original topic:

There is no evidence for any "power of prayer". Certainly not beyond the "meditative/reflective" benefits some have outlined.

Science cannot prove or disprove the power or lack of power of prayer. Science doesn’t have to tools to do so.

Science doesn't have to disprove a negative. Science can't disprove the existence of the tooth fairy or a nearly infinite list of non-existent things. You know this, I am confident.

It is the burden of the person making a claim to provide evidence of that claim. Where is the evidence to support yours?

BTW, the scientists who have made the claim there is no power of prayer actually DO HAVE EVIDENCE to support their claim: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-mar-31-sci-prayer31-story.html

Saying that prayer can heal other people is a pretty big claim. It doesn’t surprise me that there is evidence to the contrary. There is plenty of evidence that people who pray regularly are happier, healthier, and can tolerate pain longer. And yes, it works better than meditation.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16049627/

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/the-science-of-prayer-2.html

And it doesn't matter which God, if any, that you pray to! Any meditation has positive, calming effects.

That’s not what the post you are replying to says.

pp is adding to the conversation; not affirming a previous comment. Happens all the time and is perfectly legitimate.

Ok. But you literally directly contradicted the study that you quoted.

You aren’t contributing to a conversation. You are deliberately posting false information that contradicts science, but confirms your worldview.

NP. The science is clear that people who pray regularly are happier, healthier, and can tolerate pain longer.

Your attempts to disrupt this thread are getting sillier by the post. Are you actually saying that only prayers to the Christian god get answered?

No. I’m not the hospice pastor. What I am saying that there is a study quoted that says that prayer works better than meditation. Someone quoted that study and said that prayer was effectively the same as meditation.

They probably didn’t lie. More likely, they didn’t bother to read the post or the links, assumed that they knew what the links said because they are confident that their worldview is correct and going to be echoed, and posted his/her assumptions about prayer as meditation.

[Anonymous]

I'm spiritual but do not subscribe to organized religion, go to Church. However, I strongly believe in the power of energy and that faith and prayer are able to put forth positive energy and if enough, can definitely impact,

Many years ago, a close friend who is a cathlab nurse told me a story about a patient whose health was failing. He was septic and more or less in decline to the point he wasn't going to make it - the Drs were just about sure of that. His relatives felt compelled to ask their church to pray for this guy. They were crazy devout or something like that. I forget the details but the gist of it is that he got inexplicably better. They prayed and they prayed for him. It really was without scientific explanation. I never forgot this story and although I do not personally pray, I think it's a very effective form of meditation. I personally believe the power derived is from others praying for you however. My mother who I'm alienated from used to tell me she and her friends prayed for me to find my way all the time. I don't know I was ever messed up or lost per se but my life has turned out to be pretty fine and I consider myself very fortunate in having a strong family with kids and DH. Prob better than I could have hoped with my background. Maybe her prayers helped me who knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

God doesn’t get a gun and kill people. Another thread jacked by people who claim not to believe in God, yet spend time debating God.

Maybe you misunderstand the meaning of the word “debate”. This is not an echo chamber.

I know it is hard to believe in things without evidence, and frustrating when that is pointed out to you. But when you resort to ad hominem — attaching the person making the point - that clearly indicates you can’t answer the point itself.

Maybe you should just not reply to those posts you don’t like? Just a suggestion.

Maybe you could let people practice their own religion, even if you don’t like it?

Who am I not letting practice their own religion? Expressing my opinion and beliefs somehow prevents you from exercising your own? No, it does not.

What you want is to be able to preach without being questioned. That's not what this forum is for. That's what your church is for.

I am not a preacher or pastor or minister and am not preaching to anyone. This is a religious forum and this is exactly where people come to discuss religion.

This forum is exactly for discussion of religion.

You are wrong about one thing: It is not a "religious" forum, it is a "religion" forum, and that is why it is titled as such. So then why do you prefer religion not be objectively discussed? Are you saying that to discuss religion requires belief in one?

DP. What you’ve done is mostly drive off people who don’t have the patience to explain—for the umpteenth time—things like free will, original sin, and the problem of evil on a thread that’s about prayer. You’ve hijacked a thread on prayer and made it hard to follow for anybody like me who was considering jumping in now.

It would be great to return this thread to the subject of prayer.

Lol. You are the one who took this off topic with your ad hominem. And again you neglect all the questions asked because you can't answer them. But fine, let's ignore all that and get back to the original topic:

There is no evidence for any "power of prayer". Certainly not beyond the "meditative/reflective" benefits some have outlined.

Science cannot prove or disprove the power or lack of power of prayer. Science doesn’t have to tools to do so.

Science doesn't have to disprove a negative. Science can't disprove the existence of the tooth fairy or a nearly infinite list of non-existent things. You know this, I am confident.

It is the burden of the person making a claim to provide evidence of that claim. Where is the evidence to support yours?

BTW, the scientists who have made the claim there is no power of prayer actually DO HAVE EVIDENCE to support their claim: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-mar-31-sci-prayer31-story.html

Saying that prayer can heal other people is a pretty big claim. It doesn’t surprise me that there is evidence to the contrary. There is plenty of evidence that people who pray regularly are happier, healthier, and can tolerate pain longer. And yes, it works better than meditation.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16049627/

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/the-science-of-prayer-2.html

And it doesn't matter which God, if any, that you pray to! Any meditation has positive, calming effects.

False. Meditation doesn't always have positive, calming effects. It is well documented that meditation has negative effects for some people and can trigger panic attacks, depression, derealization, hallucinations, and psychosis. Just google it, there's a ton of info about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

God doesn’t get a gun and kill people. Another thread jacked by people who claim not to believe in God, yet spend time debating God.

Maybe you misunderstand the meaning of the word “debate”. This is not an echo chamber.

I know it is hard to believe in things without evidence, and frustrating when that is pointed out to you. But when you resort to ad hominem — attaching the person making the point - that clearly indicates you can’t answer the point itself.

Maybe you should just not reply to those posts you don’t like? Just a suggestion.

Maybe you could let people practice their own religion, even if you don’t like it?

Who am I not letting practice their own religion? Expressing my opinion and beliefs somehow prevents you from exercising your own? No, it does not.

What you want is to be able to preach without being questioned. That's not what this forum is for. That's what your church is for.

I am not a preacher or pastor or minister and am not preaching to anyone. This is a religious forum and this is exactly where people come to discuss religion.

This forum is exactly for discussion of religion.

You are wrong about one thing: It is not a "religious" forum, it is a "religion" forum, and that is why it is titled as such. So then why do you prefer religion not be objectively discussed? Are you saying that to discuss religion requires belief in one?

DP. What you’ve done is mostly drive off people who don’t have the patience to explain—for the umpteenth time—things like free will, original sin, and the problem of evil on a thread that’s about prayer. You’ve hijacked a thread on prayer and made it hard to follow for anybody like me who was considering jumping in now.

It would be great to return this thread to the subject of prayer.

Lol. You are the one who took this off topic with your ad hominem. And again you neglect all the questions asked because you can't answer them. But fine, let's ignore all that and get back to the original topic:

There is no evidence for any "power of prayer". Certainly not beyond the "meditative/reflective" benefits some have outlined.

Science cannot prove or disprove the power or lack of power of prayer. Science doesn’t have to tools to do so.

Science doesn't have to disprove a negative. Science can't disprove the existence of the tooth fairy or a nearly infinite list of non-existent things. You know this, I am confident.

It is the burden of the person making a claim to provide evidence of that claim. Where is the evidence to support yours?

BTW, the scientists who have made the claim there is no power of prayer actually DO HAVE EVIDENCE to support their claim: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-mar-31-sci-prayer31-story.html

Saying that prayer can heal other people is a pretty big claim. It doesn’t surprise me that there is evidence to the contrary. There is plenty of evidence that people who pray regularly are happier, healthier, and can tolerate pain longer. And yes, it works better than meditation.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16049627/

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/the-science-of-prayer-2.html

And it doesn't matter which God, if any, that you pray to! Any meditation has positive, calming effects.

That’s not what the post you are replying to says.

pp is adding to the conversation; not affirming a previous comment. Happens all the time and is perfectly legitimate.

Ok. But you literally directly contradicted the study that you quoted.

You aren’t contributing to a conversation. You are deliberately posting false information that contradicts science, but confirms your worldview.

The post lists two articles. The second is not new info, and refers to findings in the first article. There is no mention that it matters which god is being prayed to and it doesn't state that not praying to a God does not have positive, calming effects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm spiritual but do not subscribe to organized religion, go to Church. However, I strongly believe in the power of energy and that faith and prayer are able to put forth positive energy and if enough, can definitely impact,

Many years ago, a close friend who is a cathlab nurse told me a story about a patient whose health was failing. He was septic and more or less in decline to the point he wasn't going to make it - the Drs were just about sure of that. His relatives felt compelled to ask their church to pray for this guy. They were crazy devout or something like that. I forget the details but the gist of it is that he got inexplicably better. They prayed and they prayed for him. It really was without scientific explanation. I never forgot this story and although I do not personally pray, I think it's a very effective form of meditation. I personally believe the power derived is from others praying for you however. My mother who I'm alienated from used to tell me she and her friends prayed for me to find my way all the time. I don't know I was ever messed up or lost per se but my life has turned out to be pretty fine and I consider myself very fortunate in having a strong family with kids and DH. Prob better than I could have hoped with my background. Maybe her prayers helped me who knows.

First of all, it's just a story. Secondly, assuming it happened, he might have gotten better spontaneously without the praying. Spontaneous recovery happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm spiritual but do not subscribe to organized religion, go to Church. However, I strongly believe in the power of energy and that faith and prayer are able to put forth positive energy and if enough, can definitely impact,

Many years ago, a close friend who is a cathlab nurse told me a story about a patient whose health was failing. He was septic and more or less in decline to the point he wasn't going to make it - the Drs were just about sure of that. His relatives felt compelled to ask their church to pray for this guy. They were crazy devout or something like that. I forget the details but the gist of it is that he got inexplicably better. They prayed and they prayed for him. It really was without scientific explanation. I never forgot this story and although I do not personally pray, I think it's a very effective form of meditation. I personally believe the power derived is from others praying for you however. My mother who I'm alienated from used to tell me she and her friends prayed for me to find my way all the time. I don't know I was ever messed up or lost per se but my life has turned out to be pretty fine and I consider myself very fortunate in having a strong family with kids and DH. Prob better than I could have hoped with my background. Maybe her prayers helped me who knows.

First of all, it's just a story. Secondly, assuming it happened, he might have gotten better spontaneously without the praying. Spontaneous recovery happens.

When there's a spontaneous recovery, scientists want to study it and religious believers want to call it a miracle.