Power of prayer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

God doesn’t get a gun and kill people. Another thread jacked by people who claim not to believe in God, yet spend time debating God.

Maybe you misunderstand the meaning of the word “debate”. This is not an echo chamber.

I know it is hard to believe in things without evidence, and frustrating when that is pointed out to you. But when you resort to ad hominem — attaching the person making the point - that clearly indicates you can’t answer the point itself.

Maybe you should just not reply to those posts you don’t like? Just a suggestion.

Maybe you could let people practice their own religion, even if you don’t like it?

Who am I not letting practice their own religion? Expressing my opinion and beliefs somehow prevents you from exercising your own? No, it does not.

What you want is to be able to preach without being questioned. That's not what this forum is for. That's what your church is for.

I am not a preacher or pastor or minister and am not preaching to anyone. This is a religious forum and this is exactly where people come to discuss religion.

This forum is exactly for discussion of religion.

You are wrong about one thing: It is not a "religious" forum, it is a "religion" forum, and that is why it is titled as such. So then why do you prefer religion not be objectively discussed? Are you saying that to discuss religion requires belief in one?

DP. What you’ve done is mostly drive off people who don’t have the patience to explain—for the umpteenth time—things like free will, original sin, and the problem of evil on a thread that’s about prayer. You’ve hijacked a thread on prayer and made it hard to follow for anybody like me who was considering jumping in now.

It would be great to return this thread to the subject of prayer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

God doesn’t get a gun and kill people. Another thread jacked by people who claim not to believe in God, yet spend time debating God.

Maybe you misunderstand the meaning of the word “debate”. This is not an echo chamber.

I know it is hard to believe in things without evidence, and frustrating when that is pointed out to you. But when you resort to ad hominem — attaching the person making the point - that clearly indicates you can’t answer the point itself.

Maybe you should just not reply to those posts you don’t like? Just a suggestion.

Maybe you could let people practice their own religion, even if you don’t like it?

Who am I not letting practice their own religion? Expressing my opinion and beliefs somehow prevents you from exercising your own? No, it does not.

What you want is to be able to preach without being questioned. That's not what this forum is for. That's what your church is for.

I am not a preacher or pastor or minister and am not preaching to anyone. This is a religious forum and this is exactly where people come to discuss religion.

This forum is exactly for discussion of religion.

You are wrong about one thing: It is not a "religious" forum, it is a "religion" forum, and that is why it is titled as such. So then why do you prefer religion not be objectively discussed? Are you saying that to discuss religion requires belief in one?

DP. What you’ve done is mostly drive off people who don’t have the patience to explain—for the umpteenth time—things like free will, original sin, and the problem of evil on a thread that’s about prayer. You’ve hijacked a thread on prayer and made it hard to follow for anybody like me who was considering jumping in now.

It would be great to return this thread to the subject of prayer.

Lol. You are the one who took this off topic with your ad hominem. And again you neglect all the questions asked because you can't answer them. But fine, let's ignore all that and get back to the original topic:

There is no evidence for any "power of prayer". Certainly not beyond the "meditative/reflective" benefits some have outlined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I pray often. I don't believe in the power of it changing a bad situation into better like a miracle (I am Catholic). But I firmly believe it can give you guidance, clarity and calm in very dark times. So while it couldn't save my mother from dying of cancer it gave me the ability to forge ahead.

I love my patron saints. And Joseph is the bomb. He took in Mary and protected her and Jesus. When in need I go to him while Mary is always by my side.

How does that all work with the rule not to worship false idols? Aren't you supposed to pray to God if you believe in God?

Saints aren’t God. They are people. You don’t worship them. You communicate with them via prayer because they are dead.

If you ever ask your dead grandmother who is in Heaven to look out for you, then you are praying to a saint.

No, I've never reached out to my dead grandmother. Why would you reach out to saints when you could go directly to God? I guess I'm getting into questions raised by the reformation.

So, those weren’t actually the questions of the reformation. That is a myth propagated in the 18th century in the midst of anti-Catholic sentiment. It’s possible that your tenth grade world history book wasn’t exactly accurate on 16th century politics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

God doesn’t get a gun and kill people. Another thread jacked by people who claim not to believe in God, yet spend time debating God.

Maybe you misunderstand the meaning of the word “debate”. This is not an echo chamber.

I know it is hard to believe in things without evidence, and frustrating when that is pointed out to you. But when you resort to ad hominem — attaching the person making the point - that clearly indicates you can’t answer the point itself.

Maybe you should just not reply to those posts you don’t like? Just a suggestion.

Maybe you could let people practice their own religion, even if you don’t like it?

Who am I not letting practice their own religion? Expressing my opinion and beliefs somehow prevents you from exercising your own? No, it does not.

What you want is to be able to preach without being questioned. That's not what this forum is for. That's what your church is for.

I am not a preacher or pastor or minister and am not preaching to anyone. This is a religious forum and this is exactly where people come to discuss religion.

This forum is exactly for discussion of religion.

You are wrong about one thing: It is not a "religious" forum, it is a "religion" forum, and that is why it is titled as such. So then why do you prefer religion not be objectively discussed? Are you saying that to discuss religion requires belief in one?

DP. What you’ve done is mostly drive off people who don’t have the patience to explain—for the umpteenth time—things like free will, original sin, and the problem of evil on a thread that’s about prayer. You’ve hijacked a thread on prayer and made it hard to follow for anybody like me who was considering jumping in now.

It would be great to return this thread to the subject of prayer.

Lol. You are the one who took this off topic with your ad hominem. And again you neglect all the questions asked because you can't answer them. But fine, let's ignore all that and get back to the original topic:

There is no evidence for any "power of prayer". Certainly not beyond the "meditative/reflective" benefits some have outlined.

Science cannot prove or disprove the power or lack of power of prayer. Science doesn’t have to tools to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

God doesn’t get a gun and kill people. Another thread jacked by people who claim not to believe in God, yet spend time debating God.

Maybe you misunderstand the meaning of the word “debate”. This is not an echo chamber.

I know it is hard to believe in things without evidence, and frustrating when that is pointed out to you. But when you resort to ad hominem — attaching the person making the point - that clearly indicates you can’t answer the point itself.

Maybe you should just not reply to those posts you don’t like? Just a suggestion.

Maybe you could let people practice their own religion, even if you don’t like it?

Who am I not letting practice their own religion? Expressing my opinion and beliefs somehow prevents you from exercising your own? No, it does not.

What you want is to be able to preach without being questioned. That's not what this forum is for. That's what your church is for.

I am not a preacher or pastor or minister and am not preaching to anyone. This is a religious forum and this is exactly where people come to discuss religion.

This forum is exactly for discussion of religion.

You are wrong about one thing: It is not a "religious" forum, it is a "religion" forum, and that is why it is titled as such. So then why do you prefer religion not be objectively discussed? Are you saying that to discuss religion requires belief in one?

DP. What you’ve done is mostly drive off people who don’t have the patience to explain—for the umpteenth time—things like free will, original sin, and the problem of evil on a thread that’s about prayer. You’ve hijacked a thread on prayer and made it hard to follow for anybody like me who was considering jumping in now.

It would be great to return this thread to the subject of prayer.

Lol. You are the one who took this off topic with your ad hominem. And again you neglect all the questions asked because you can't answer them. But fine, let's ignore all that and get back to the original topic:

There is no evidence for any "power of prayer". Certainly not beyond the "meditative/reflective" benefits some have outlined.

Science cannot prove or disprove the power or lack of power of prayer. Science doesn’t have to tools to do so.

Science doesn't have to disprove a negative. Science can't disprove the existence of the tooth fairy or a nearly infinite list of non-existent things. You know this, I am confident.

It is the burden of the person making a claim to provide evidence of that claim. Where is the evidence to support yours?

BTW, the scientists who have made the claim there is no power of prayer actually DO HAVE EVIDENCE to support their claim: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-mar-31-sci-prayer31-story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

God doesn’t get a gun and kill people. Another thread jacked by people who claim not to believe in God, yet spend time debating God.

Maybe you misunderstand the meaning of the word “debate”. This is not an echo chamber.

I know it is hard to believe in things without evidence, and frustrating when that is pointed out to you. But when you resort to ad hominem — attaching the person making the point - that clearly indicates you can’t answer the point itself.

Maybe you should just not reply to those posts you don’t like? Just a suggestion.

Maybe you could let people practice their own religion, even if you don’t like it?

Who am I not letting practice their own religion? Expressing my opinion and beliefs somehow prevents you from exercising your own? No, it does not.

What you want is to be able to preach without being questioned. That's not what this forum is for. That's what your church is for.

I am not a preacher or pastor or minister and am not preaching to anyone. This is a religious forum and this is exactly where people come to discuss religion.

This forum is exactly for discussion of religion.

You are wrong about one thing: It is not a "religious" forum, it is a "religion" forum, and that is why it is titled as such. So then why do you prefer religion not be objectively discussed? Are you saying that to discuss religion requires belief in one?

DP. What you’ve done is mostly drive off people who don’t have the patience to explain—for the umpteenth time—things like free will, original sin, and the problem of evil on a thread that’s about prayer. You’ve hijacked a thread on prayer and made it hard to follow for anybody like me who was considering jumping in now.

It would be great to return this thread to the subject of prayer.

Lol. You are the one who took this off topic with your ad hominem. And again you neglect all the questions asked because you can't answer them. But fine, let's ignore all that and get back to the original topic:

There is no evidence for any "power of prayer". Certainly not beyond the "meditative/reflective" benefits some have outlined.

I don’t know. I guess that if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, then you can move mountains. But who has so much faith that it takes on real, physical mass??

For the vast majority of us, prayer helps you reflect, consider your decisions, guides you back on the right path, and brings peace and calm in our lives. What else do you want it to do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

God doesn’t get a gun and kill people. Another thread jacked by people who claim not to believe in God, yet spend time debating God.

Maybe you misunderstand the meaning of the word “debate”. This is not an echo chamber.

I know it is hard to believe in things without evidence, and frustrating when that is pointed out to you. But when you resort to ad hominem — attaching the person making the point - that clearly indicates you can’t answer the point itself.

Maybe you should just not reply to those posts you don’t like? Just a suggestion.

Maybe you could let people practice their own religion, even if you don’t like it?

Who am I not letting practice their own religion? Expressing my opinion and beliefs somehow prevents you from exercising your own? No, it does not.

What you want is to be able to preach without being questioned. That's not what this forum is for. That's what your church is for.

I am not a preacher or pastor or minister and am not preaching to anyone. This is a religious forum and this is exactly where people come to discuss religion.

This forum is exactly for discussion of religion.

You are wrong about one thing: It is not a "religious" forum, it is a "religion" forum, and that is why it is titled as such. So then why do you prefer religion not be objectively discussed? Are you saying that to discuss religion requires belief in one?

DP. What you’ve done is mostly drive off people who don’t have the patience to explain—for the umpteenth time—things like free will, original sin, and the problem of evil on a thread that’s about prayer. You’ve hijacked a thread on prayer and made it hard to follow for anybody like me who was considering jumping in now.

It would be great to return this thread to the subject of prayer.

Lol. You are the one who took this off topic with your ad hominem. And again you neglect all the questions asked because you can't answer them. But fine, let's ignore all that and get back to the original topic:

There is no evidence for any "power of prayer". Certainly not beyond the "meditative/reflective" benefits some have outlined.

Science cannot prove or disprove the power or lack of power of prayer. Science doesn’t have to tools to do so.

Science doesn't have to disprove a negative. Science can't disprove the existence of the tooth fairy or a nearly infinite list of non-existent things. You know this, I am confident.

It is the burden of the person making a claim to provide evidence of that claim. Where is the evidence to support yours?

BTW, the scientists who have made the claim there is no power of prayer actually DO HAVE EVIDENCE to support their claim: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-mar-31-sci-prayer31-story.html

Saying that prayer can heal other people is a pretty big claim. It doesn’t surprise me that there is evidence to the contrary. There is plenty of evidence that people who pray regularly are happier, healthier, and can tolerate pain longer. And yes, it works better than meditation.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16049627/

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/the-science-of-prayer-2.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

I guess so. People can be ignorant, and God can’t.

God can be absent, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

God doesn’t get a gun and kill people. Another thread jacked by people who claim not to believe in God, yet spend time debating God.

Maybe you misunderstand the meaning of the word “debate”. This is not an echo chamber.

I know it is hard to believe in things without evidence, and frustrating when that is pointed out to you. But when you resort to ad hominem — attaching the person making the point - that clearly indicates you can’t answer the point itself.

Maybe you should just not reply to those posts you don’t like? Just a suggestion.

Maybe you could let people practice their own religion, even if you don’t like it?

Who am I not letting practice their own religion? Expressing my opinion and beliefs somehow prevents you from exercising your own? No, it does not.

What you want is to be able to preach without being questioned. That's not what this forum is for. That's what your church is for.

I am not a preacher or pastor or minister and am not preaching to anyone. This is a religious forum and this is exactly where people come to discuss religion.

This forum is exactly for discussion of religion.

You are wrong about one thing: It is not a "religious" forum, it is a "religion" forum, and that is why it is titled as such. So then why do you prefer religion not be objectively discussed? Are you saying that to discuss religion requires belief in one?

DP. What you’ve done is mostly drive off people who don’t have the patience to explain—for the umpteenth time—things like free will, original sin, and the problem of evil on a thread that’s about prayer. You’ve hijacked a thread on prayer and made it hard to follow for anybody like me who was considering jumping in now.

It would be great to return this thread to the subject of prayer.

Sorry, but unless you're God (assuming he/she exists), you can't know that pp or anyone else has driven anyone off of this forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Sure the thoughts and prayers works when kids are slaughtered for 78 minutes. See it’s a lie

If you have an opinion about prayer, that’s valid. It’s a lie to YOU. It doesn’t make it a lie to everyone else in the world. 1.God didn’t kill those children, a deranged and evil man did. And despite the hating minister commenting above that they personally hate people and Christ hates people… only evil people do such evil things and God doesn’t hate anyone.

2. Prayer is not an online order like an Amazon order. You don’t add prayers to your cart and receive them within a set day or time. It’s not wishes or wants that God fills for you on demand, nor is prayer a goodie list like children leave for Santa and hope to find everything they asked for under the tree on Christmas morning.

1. Right -- God only does the good stuff. /S

2. Correct - sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes they're not. Either way God decided whether or not you should get what you asked for /S

DP. I don’t understand the personification of God here. What does it even mean to say that God “waited outside” or the He “decided” xyz. Those are things that people do. They aren’t things that God does.

You mean people can do things God can't?

I guess so. People can be ignorant, and God can’t.

God can be absent, though.

No. She can’t. The mistake most people make about God is allowing for separateness. You can’t separate the waves from the ocean. You cannot separate a human from God. We are part of the same whole.

[Anonymous]

I've had a lot of success with prayer. Mainly when I thank God beforehand for successful results.

[Anonymous]

Looks like daily prayer can decrease anxiety and increase pain tolerance. It seems with a try for 20 minutes a day for two weeks.


Is spirituality a critical ingredient of meditation? Comparing the effects of spiritual meditation, secular meditation, and relaxation on spiritual, psychological, cardiac, and pain outcomes
Amy B Wachholtz et al. J Behav Med. 2005 Aug.

Abstract

This study compared secular and spiritual forms of meditation to assess the benefits of a spiritual intervention. Participants were taught a meditation or relaxation technique to practice for 20 min a day for two weeks. After two weeks, participants returned to the lab, practiced their technique for 20 min, and placed their hand in a cold-water bath of 2 degrees C for as long as they could endure it. The length of time that individuals kept their hand in the water bath was measured. Pain, anxiety, mood, and the spiritual health were assessed following the two-week intervention. Significant interactions occurred (time x group); the Spiritual Meditation group had greater decreases in anxiety and more positive mood, spiritual health, and spiritual experiences than the other two groups. They also tolerated pain almost twice as long as the other two groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looks like daily prayer can decrease anxiety and increase pain tolerance. It seems with a try for 20 minutes a day for two weeks.


Is spirituality a critical ingredient of meditation? Comparing the effects of spiritual meditation, secular meditation, and relaxation on spiritual, psychological, cardiac, and pain outcomes
Amy B Wachholtz et al. J Behav Med. 2005 Aug.

Abstract

This study compared secular and spiritual forms of meditation to assess the benefits of a spiritual intervention. Participants were taught a meditation or relaxation technique to practice for 20 min a day for two weeks. After two weeks, participants returned to the lab, practiced their technique for 20 min, and placed their hand in a cold-water bath of 2 degrees C for as long as they could endure it. The length of time that individuals kept their hand in the water bath was measured. Pain, anxiety, mood, and the spiritual health were assessed following the two-week intervention. Significant interactions occurred (time x group); the Spiritual Meditation group had greater decreases in anxiety and more positive mood, spiritual health, and spiritual experiences than the other two groups. They also tolerated pain almost twice as long as the other two groups.

I can give you the studies in a Hospice setting. We know that when people are in spiritual pain, it makes it much more difficult to control terminal agitation and pain. Many, many studies have been done on this. When I visit a patient in Hospice, I'm not seeking to convert them or convince them of a God. It doesn't matter. What does matter is their spiritual health. We are spiritual beings having a human experience. I may never use the word "prayer". I may offer a guided meditation - it's a prayer. I may listen as they talk about their struggles - That's a form of prayer. They often see deceased loved ones. We talk to them together - that's prayer. Prayer is communication with a higher power. That higher power may be your God. Or it could be your higher self. Your ancestors. Nature. The Universe. Universal Source. Source Energy. Doesn't matter what we call it. Trying to use human language to describe the creative consciousness of the universe is impossible.

I've seen prayer instantly decrease pain in patients previously miserable. I've seen terminal agitation stop with prayer. It's powerful stuff.

[Anonymous]

OP here -
I have enjoyed reading everyone’s thoughts. It’s given me many things to think about. Thank you to those who left notes thinking and praying for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like daily prayer can decrease anxiety and increase pain tolerance. It seems with a try for 20 minutes a day for two weeks.


Is spirituality a critical ingredient of meditation? Comparing the effects of spiritual meditation, secular meditation, and relaxation on spiritual, psychological, cardiac, and pain outcomes
Amy B Wachholtz et al. J Behav Med. 2005 Aug.

Abstract

This study compared secular and spiritual forms of meditation to assess the benefits of a spiritual intervention. Participants were taught a meditation or relaxation technique to practice for 20 min a day for two weeks. After two weeks, participants returned to the lab, practiced their technique for 20 min, and placed their hand in a cold-water bath of 2 degrees C for as long as they could endure it. The length of time that individuals kept their hand in the water bath was measured. Pain, anxiety, mood, and the spiritual health were assessed following the two-week intervention. Significant interactions occurred (time x group); the Spiritual Meditation group had greater decreases in anxiety and more positive mood, spiritual health, and spiritual experiences than the other two groups. They also tolerated pain almost twice as long as the other two groups.

I can give you the studies in a Hospice setting. We know that when people are in spiritual pain, it makes it much more difficult to control terminal agitation and pain. Many, many studies have been done on this. When I visit a patient in Hospice, I'm not seeking to convert them or convince them of a God. It doesn't matter. What does matter is their spiritual health. We are spiritual beings having a human experience. I may never use the word "prayer". I may offer a guided meditation - it's a prayer. I may listen as they talk about their struggles - That's a form of prayer. They often see deceased loved ones. We talk to them together - that's prayer. Prayer is communication with a higher power. That higher power may be your God. Or it could be your higher self. Your ancestors. Nature. The Universe. Universal Source. Source Energy. Doesn't matter what we call it. Trying to use human language to describe the creative consciousness of the universe is impossible.

I've seen prayer instantly decrease pain in patients previously miserable. I've seen terminal agitation stop with prayer. It's powerful stuff.

Says the hospice chaplain who thinks her beliefs are facts