Is BYU all Mormon?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curious - are more LDS women still getting married young, but waiting several years to have kids so that they can get their careers established first? I know one LDS woman like this; she even showed off her implanted birth control in her arm.

Surprisingly, the LDS has no ban or moral issues with birth control as say, the Catholic Church does. But they are taught that having children is essential to God's plan and as such, they do tend to have children younger- but that might have to do with the fact they marry younger? Like if the average couple, both LDS and non-LDS waits 3 years after marriage to have kids...that means the average LDS couple would have kids at 26 since they, on average, get married at 23, whereas the average non-LDS couple gets married at 28 or whatever so they have their kid at 31. if that makes sense?

You are wrong. Go read the history of b.c. in the Mormon church in wiki.

You don't need to go to Wikipedia, just go straight to the source. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/birth-control?lang=eng

"The decision of how many children to have and when to have them is a private matter for the husband and wife."
Sexual relations within marriage are not only for the purpose of procreation, but also a means of expressing love and strengthening emotional and spiritual ties between husband and wife.


FALSE. Ask any bishop. Go read

Husband and wife are encouraged to pray and counsel together as they plan their families. Issues to consider include the physical and mental health of the mother and father and their capacity to provide the basic necessities of life for their children.

Decisions about birth control and the consequences of those decisions rest solely with each married couple.

FALSE. Ask any bishop. Go read the 2003 edict. Could not be clearer. You are supposed to turn out as many babies as possible to give spirit children bodies. Of course the church tries to play cute on this issue as it did discriminating against black people - it which justified through 1976 by claiming that black people had asked to be born black, ergo it was ok to discriminate against them and deny the M priesthood. The church’s stance was abhorrent but the PR games even worse. And you are required to deliver scuds this at your meeting with great bishop. You are not supposed to be in bc in the Mormon church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curious - are more LDS women still getting married young, but waiting several years to have kids so that they can get their careers established first? I know one LDS woman like this; she even showed off her implanted birth control in her arm.

Surprisingly, the LDS has no ban or moral issues with birth control as say, the Catholic Church does. But they are taught that having children is essential to God's plan and as such, they do tend to have children younger- but that might have to do with the fact they marry younger? Like if the average couple, both LDS and non-LDS waits 3 years after marriage to have kids...that means the average LDS couple would have kids at 26 since they, on average, get married at 23, whereas the average non-LDS couple gets married at 28 or whatever so they have their kid at 31. if that makes sense?

You are wrong. Go read the history of b.c. in the Mormon church in wiki.

You don't need to go to Wikipedia, just go straight to the source. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/birth-control?lang=eng

"The decision of how many children to have and when to have them is a private matter for the husband and wife."
Sexual relations within marriage are not only for the purpose of procreation, but also a means of expressing love and strengthening emotional and spiritual ties between husband and wife.

Husband and wife are encouraged to pray and counsel together as they plan their families. Issues to consider include the physical and mental health of the mother and father and their capacity to provide the basic necessities of life for their children.

Decisions about birth control and the consequences of those decisions rest solely with each married couple.

That’s PR for the Gentiles. The rules are no sex before marriage and no b.c. after. It’s a brutal church for women. Hence the antidepressant statistics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tara Westover (author of Educated) graduated from there and went on to get an MA and PhD from Cambridge, so I am assuming its a good school. I think she was/is Mormon.[/qu

The whole point of that book is that she overcame incredibly deprived and abusive circumstances. BYU is the halfway point between her childhood (no education whatsoever) and Cambridge. It is better than living on a scrap heap with mentally ill abusive adults.

[Anonymous]

Note comment from Spencer Kimball:

In the past the use of birth control methods including artificial contraception was explicitly condemned by LDS Church leaders. Beginning in July 1916, apostles were quoted stating that birth control was a "pernicious doctrine" and that "limiting the number of children in a family...is sinful".[103][104] The first time that any approval of a non-abstinence fertility control method was publicly expressed occurred in a 1942 Improvement Era article in which apostle John A. Widtsoe mentioned the rhythm method as an acceptable means of spacing children.[105] In his influential 1956 treatise Doctrines of Salvation, then apostle Joseph Fielding Smith called birth control a wickedness which leads to damnation and caused the downfall of nations. He further stated that an LDS couple that deliberately prevents themselves from having more children after their second or third child is guilty of iniquity which must be punished.[106][107] The 1958 edition of Bruce R. McConkie's popular book Mormon Doctrine stated that all those using condoms or other artificial contraception are "in rebellion against God and are guilty of gross wickedness."[108]: 12  The BYU Honor Code in 1968 stated that "the Church does not approve of any form of birth control."[109] In 1969 the first and only First Presidency statement on birth control was released; it reemphasized that it was "contrary to the teachings of the Church artificially to curtail or prevent the birth of children", though, for the first time there was a clarification that men should be considerate to "conserve" the "health and strength" of their wives when planning families since they carry the "greater responsibility" for bearing and rearing children.[110]

Other discussions of the topic include those by Ezra Taft Benson, who became a church president. He stated that those that advocate for birth control perpetuate types of government that cause famine,[111][112][113]: 540  that couples should not prevent births for selfish reasons,[113]: 543 [114][115] and that a sterilization operation could "jeapordiz[e] your exaltation."[113]: 541 [116][117] As recently as 2003 a church manual was published containing a quote from the late church president Spencer W. Kimball stating that the church does not "condone nor approve of" measures of contraception which greatly "limit the family".[118]

The church's insurance company Deseret Mutual Benefits Administrators which provides coverage for its employees does not cover any form of birth control and will only cover sterilization by vasectomy or tubal ligation for a couple if the woman has already had five children or is over forty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curious - are more LDS women still getting married young, but waiting several years to have kids so that they can get their careers established first? I know one LDS woman like this; she even showed off her implanted birth control in her arm.

Surprisingly, the LDS has no ban or moral issues with birth control as say, the Catholic Church does. But they are taught that having children is essential to God's plan and as such, they do tend to have children younger- but that might have to do with the fact they marry younger? Like if the average couple, both LDS and non-LDS waits 3 years after marriage to have kids...that means the average LDS couple would have kids at 26 since they, on average, get married at 23, whereas the average non-LDS couple gets married at 28 or whatever so they have their kid at 31. if that makes sense?

You are wrong. Go read the history of b.c. in the Mormon church in wiki.

You don't need to go to Wikipedia, just go straight to the source. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/birth-control?lang=eng

"The decision of how many children to have and when to have them is a private matter for the husband and wife."
Sexual relations within marriage are not only for the purpose of procreation, but also a means of expressing love and strengthening emotional and spiritual ties between husband and wife.

Husband and wife are encouraged to pray and counsel together as they plan their families. Issues to consider include the physical and mental health of the mother and father and their capacity to provide the basic necessities of life for their children.

Decisions about birth control and the consequences of those decisions rest solely with each married couple.

That’s PR for the Gentiles. The rules are no sex before marriage and no b.c. after. It’s a brutal church for women. Hence the antidepressant statistics.

I'm a Catholic (and we are not to use birth control) and I've actually had discussions about this with Mormon friends--where they were defending the use of bc within marriage. I would think that if bc within marriage was just "PR" they'd be in agreement with me when it's just the two of us talking...

--not the pp you quoted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Note comment from Spencer Kimball:

In the past the use of birth control methods including artificial contraception was explicitly condemned by LDS Church leaders. Beginning in July 1916, apostles were quoted stating that birth control was a "pernicious doctrine" and that "limiting the number of children in a family...is sinful".[103][104] The first time that any approval of a non-abstinence fertility control method was publicly expressed occurred in a 1942 Improvement Era article in which apostle John A. Widtsoe mentioned the rhythm method as an acceptable means of spacing children.[105] In his influential 1956 treatise Doctrines of Salvation, then apostle Joseph Fielding Smith called birth control a wickedness which leads to damnation and caused the downfall of nations. He further stated that an LDS couple that deliberately prevents themselves from having more children after their second or third child is guilty of iniquity which must be punished.[106][107] The 1958 edition of Bruce R. McConkie's popular book Mormon Doctrine stated that all those using condoms or other artificial contraception are "in rebellion against God and are guilty of gross wickedness."[108]: 12  The BYU Honor Code in 1968 stated that "the Church does not approve of any form of birth control."[109] In 1969 the first and only First Presidency statement on birth control was released; it reemphasized that it was "contrary to the teachings of the Church artificially to curtail or prevent the birth of children", though, for the first time there was a clarification that men should be considerate to "conserve" the "health and strength" of their wives when planning families since they carry the "greater responsibility" for bearing and rearing children.[110]

Other discussions of the topic include those by Ezra Taft Benson, who became a church president. He stated that those that advocate for birth control perpetuate types of government that cause famine,[111][112][113]: 540  that couples should not prevent births for selfish reasons,[113]: 543 [114][115] and that a sterilization operation could "jeapordiz[e] your exaltation."[113]: 541 [116][117] As recently as 2003 a church manual was published containing a quote from the late church president Spencer W. Kimball stating that the church does not "condone nor approve of" measures of contraception which greatly "limit the family".[118]

The church's insurance company Deseret Mutual Benefits Administrators which provides coverage for its employees does not cover any form of birth control and will only cover sterilization by vasectomy or tubal ligation for a couple if the woman has already had five children or is over forty.

Not paying for something isn't the same thing as not allowing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tara Westover (author of Educated) graduated from there and went on to get an MA and PhD from Cambridge, so I am assuming its a good school. I think she was/is Mormon.[/qu

The whole point of that book is that she overcame incredibly deprived and abusive circumstances. BYU is the halfway point between her childhood (no education whatsoever) and Cambridge. It is better than living on a scrap heap with mentally ill abusive adults.

BYU is a good school academically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curious - are more LDS women still getting married young, but waiting several years to have kids so that they can get their careers established first? I know one LDS woman like this; she even showed off her implanted birth control in her arm.

Surprisingly, the LDS has no ban or moral issues with birth control as say, the Catholic Church does. But they are taught that having children is essential to God's plan and as such, they do tend to have children younger- but that might have to do with the fact they marry younger? Like if the average couple, both LDS and non-LDS waits 3 years after marriage to have kids...that means the average LDS couple would have kids at 26 since they, on average, get married at 23, whereas the average non-LDS couple gets married at 28 or whatever so they have their kid at 31. if that makes sense?

You are wrong. Go read the history of b.c. in the Mormon church in wiki.

You don't need to go to Wikipedia, just go straight to the source. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/birth-control?lang=eng

"The decision of how many children to have and when to have them is a private matter for the husband and wife."
Sexual relations within marriage are not only for the purpose of procreation, but also a means of expressing love and strengthening emotional and spiritual ties between husband and wife.


FALSE. Ask any bishop. Go read

Husband and wife are encouraged to pray and counsel together as they plan their families. Issues to consider include the physical and mental health of the mother and father and their capacity to provide the basic necessities of life for their children.

Decisions about birth control and the consequences of those decisions rest solely with each married couple.

FALSE. Ask any bishop. Go read the 2003 edict. Could not be clearer. You are supposed to turn out as many babies as possible to give spirit children bodies. Of course the church tries to play cute on this issue as it did discriminating against black people - it which justified through 1976 by claiming that black people had asked to be born black, ergo it was ok to discriminate against them and deny the M priesthood. The church’s stance was abhorrent but the PR games even worse. And you are required to deliver scuds this at your meeting with great bishop. You are not supposed to be in bc in the Mormon church.

My dad was the bishop of our ward when I was growing up and I know my parents used BC. I'm not defending the church--I want nothing to do with it as an adult--but the church does not have a blanket ban against BC.

[Anonymous]

One issue with LDS is that women only have a link to God/Jesus through men. I heard many stories where boys would tell women how they prayed and the two were destined to get married. Hard for the girls to say no to that! Same with having kids and other decisions. Women are expected to confer with their husbands, who can do whatever they want because they prayed about it.

[Anonymous]

I grew up LDS, too, and remained a faithful member of the Church until my 30s. Want to echo that the only form of birth control that is considered improper is abortion. LDS women can take the pill, get IUDs, or use any other form of prevention, including getting tubes tied when their intended family is complete. Likewise, LDS men can use condoms and, when their intended family is complete, can get a vasectomy.

[Anonymous]

I would not recommend it.

[Anonymous]

What is the honor code? Does it actually say no caffeine/coffee/soda?

Why are guys who completed a foreign mission the most desirable?

This is fascinating.

- non-Mormon

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the honor code? Does it actually say no caffeine/coffee/soda?

Why are guys who completed a foreign mission the most desirable?

This is fascinating.

- non-Mormon

Because traditionally the foreign missions went to the guys with better resumes, basically, so more likely to be able to get a good job or go to a top law/med/business school . And it’s kind of circular I guess because certain employers view a foreign mission favorably and want to hire them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the honor code? Does it actually say no caffeine/coffee/soda?

Why are guys who completed a foreign mission the most desirable?

This is fascinating.

- non-Mormon

If you go on a foreign mission you’re expected to do intensive language training at the training facility. It’s no joke especially if you’re going to Taiwan and learning Chinese for example

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the honor code? Does it actually say no caffeine/coffee/soda?

Why are guys who completed a foreign mission the most desirable?

This is fascinating.

- non-Mormon

Yes, the honor code does say no caffeine. Non caffeinated sodas (like Sprite) are fine. The honor code also prohibits sexual relations before marriage. In 2011 a star from their basketball team was kicked off because he had pre-marital sexual relations with his girlfriend. https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/news/story?id=6175090

I'm in my mid 40's now, but grew up with a lot of friends that went to BYU. I know that while most freshmen live in lived in the dorms, most upper classmen got off campus apartments. With the BYU honor code, your off campus housing had to meet certain standards--entire apartment complexes would separate "male apartments" on one side and "female apartments" on another side. No way could a mixed group (even if they were "just friends) rent an apartment together.