Ethnic cleansing in Eastern Europe - when will the United Nations declare this a genocide?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who committed these atrocities? It makes no sense that an 18 year old Russian conscript en masse would rape and torture women and children - it's baffles. Are there the Chechnyans or Syrians the Russians have called upon? Shame on Russia! Shame on Russians for not overthrowing this evil man.

The 76th (Pskov) and 98th (Ivanovo) airborne assault divisions are the most likely suspects in the Bucha Massacre.

Wow,.that means this was a strategy and they were ordered to. How hideous. I could see this coming from a Chechnyan or Syrian playbook, but for some misguided reason did not expect this from the core Russian military.

You’ve got company

[Anonymous]

It's just amazing to me that the Russians have combined the atrocities of Liberia/Sierra Leone with the mass rapes of Bosnia, the propaganda of Rwanda and the kleptocracy of Zaire/Congo yet there are still some defending them. The "cleansing" of Cambodia and extermination camps of Germany are the only modern global horrors not yet emulated in full. While the rest of us were studying those events as things that should never happen again the Russians seem to have been taking notes on what to do.

[Anonymous]

Is Fox News showing images of the ruthless Russian savagery in Bucha? Or are they simply describing it and then moving on to their Woke outrage de jour?

The imagery is terrifying and powerful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The names of the war criminals that took part in Bucha.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Anonymous_Link/status/1511024536115982352

Go hackers!

Normally, I have major concerns about hackers acting as vigilantes and revealing confidential personal data —/ but in this case, releasing names of Russian soldiers who took part in the atrocities against civilians in Bucha is a stroke of genius. I guess it needs to be verified but hopefully it will help to eventually prosecute individuals carrying out war crimes if they ever leave Russia.

They have been fed prosperous propaganda about Ukrainians being degenerate Nazis but nothing justifies the mass torture, rape and murder of civilians.

You GUESS it needs verification? Unbelievable and SMH
It absolutely needs to be verified.

The hesitance was due to the obvious problems verifying anything with Russian authorities … they appear incapable of relaying factual honest information.

[Anonymous]

They cut tongues out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is Fox News showing images of the ruthless Russian savagery in Bucha? Or are they simply describing it and then moving on to their Woke outrage de jour?

The imagery is terrifying and powerful.

Of course they are! Do you really think they are not disgusted and appalled by what Russia is doing in Ukraine? Genocide is genocide. Remember that conservatives are humans too with feelings and emotions. They may not share the same political priorities as people who watch MSNBC and CNN, but they can have empathy for fellow humans. I think it's so outrageous that some liberals have been so brainwashed into thinking conservatives are somehow in support of Putin. I have friends and family equally divided on the left and the right. I do not know a single person on the right that sympathizes with Russia and isn't horrified by what's happening to the Ukranian people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Fox News showing images of the ruthless Russian savagery in Bucha? Or are they simply describing it and then moving on to their Woke outrage de jour?

The imagery is terrifying and powerful.

Of course they are! Do you really think they are not disgusted and appalled by what Russia is doing in Ukraine? Genocide is genocide. Remember that conservatives are humans too with feelings and emotions. They may not share the same political priorities as people who watch MSNBC and CNN, but they can have empathy for fellow humans. I think it's so outrageous that some liberals have been so brainwashed into thinking conservatives are somehow in support of Putin. I have friends and family equally divided on the left and the right. I do not know a single person on the right that sympathizes with Russia and isn't horrified by what's happening to the Ukranian people.

Then why is Tucker Carlson still employed with the #1 watched show? He's rooting for Russia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Fox News showing images of the ruthless Russian savagery in Bucha? Or are they simply describing it and then moving on to their Woke outrage de jour?

The imagery is terrifying and powerful.

Of course they are! Do you really think they are not disgusted and appalled by what Russia is doing in Ukraine? Genocide is genocide. Remember that conservatives are humans too with feelings and emotions. They may not share the same political priorities as people who watch MSNBC and CNN, but they can have empathy for fellow humans. I think it's so outrageous that some liberals have been so brainwashed into thinking conservatives are somehow in support of Putin. I have friends and family equally divided on the left and the right. I do not know a single person on the right that sympathizes with Russia and isn't horrified by what's happening to the Ukranian people.

Your friend Tucker is still carrying water for Putin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Fox News showing images of the ruthless Russian savagery in Bucha? Or are they simply describing it and then moving on to their Woke outrage de jour?

The imagery is terrifying and powerful.

Of course they are! Do you really think they are not disgusted and appalled by what Russia is doing in Ukraine? Genocide is genocide. Remember that conservatives are humans too with feelings and emotions. They may not share the same political priorities as people who watch MSNBC and CNN, but they can have empathy for fellow humans. I think it's so outrageous that some liberals have been so brainwashed into thinking conservatives are somehow in support of Putin. I have friends and family equally divided on the left and the right. I do not know a single person on the right that sympathizes with Russia and isn't horrified by what's happening to the Ukranian people.

Then why is Tucker Carlson still employed with the #1 watched show? He's rooting for Russia.

He’s the holdout for whatever traitorous reason. I just got back from the gym and Fox News was on. It was unflinching it its coverage and condemnation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Fox News showing images of the ruthless Russian savagery in Bucha? Or are they simply describing it and then moving on to their Woke outrage de jour?

The imagery is terrifying and powerful.

Of course they are! Do you really think they are not disgusted and appalled by what Russia is doing in Ukraine? Genocide is genocide. Remember that conservatives are humans too with feelings and emotions. They may not share the same political priorities as people who watch MSNBC and CNN, but they can have empathy for fellow humans. I think it's so outrageous that some liberals have been so brainwashed into thinking conservatives are somehow in support of Putin. I have friends and family equally divided on the left and the right. I do not know a single person on the right that sympathizes with Russia and isn't horrified by what's happening to the Ukranian people.

Then why is Tucker Carlson still employed with the #1 watched show? He's rooting for Russia.

He’s the holdout for whatever traitorous reason. I just got back from the gym and Fox News was on. It was unflinching it its coverage and condemnation.

The "holdout"? He's not self-employed. Somebody is financing his hold out. And a lot of people are still watching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Fox News showing images of the ruthless Russian savagery in Bucha? Or are they simply describing it and then moving on to their Woke outrage de jour?

The imagery is terrifying and powerful.

Of course they are! Do you really think they are not disgusted and appalled by what Russia is doing in Ukraine? Genocide is genocide. Remember that conservatives are humans too with feelings and emotions. They may not share the same political priorities as people who watch MSNBC and CNN, but they can have empathy for fellow humans. I think it's so outrageous that some liberals have been so brainwashed into thinking conservatives are somehow in support of Putin. I have friends and family equally divided on the left and the right. I do not know a single person on the right that sympathizes with Russia and isn't horrified by what's happening to the Ukranian people.

Then why is Tucker Carlson still employed with the #1 watched show? He's rooting for Russia.

He’s the holdout for whatever traitorous reason. I just got back from the gym and Fox News was on. It was unflinching it its coverage and condemnation.

Oh Fox News is one with Russia. It’s blame Biden(weakness) for Putin’s death squads. I really do nit understand why republicans are in favor of Putin’s death squads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Fox News showing images of the ruthless Russian savagery in Bucha? Or are they simply describing it and then moving on to their Woke outrage de jour?

The imagery is terrifying and powerful.

Of course they are! Do you really think they are not disgusted and appalled by what Russia is doing in Ukraine? Genocide is genocide. Remember that conservatives are humans too with feelings and emotions. They may not share the same political priorities as people who watch MSNBC and CNN, but they can have empathy for fellow humans. I think it's so outrageous that some liberals have been so brainwashed into thinking conservatives are somehow in support of Putin. I have friends and family equally divided on the left and the right. I do not know a single person on the right that sympathizes with Russia and isn't horrified by what's happening to the Ukranian people.

Then why is Tucker Carlson still employed with the #1 watched show? He's rooting for Russia.

He’s the holdout for whatever traitorous reason. I just got back from the gym and Fox News was on. It was unflinching it its coverage and condemnation.

Why is he still on air if the network purports to be so outraged? I guess Fox stopped pretending about “fair and balanced” long ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ethnic cleansing and genocide are not the same thing.

For legal purposes neither is the designation crimes against humanity.

It is interesting (in a grim horrific way) that Zelensky refers to the Russian atrocities as genocide - I don’t understand how that can be the right legal framework since Ukrainians have very similar ethnic backgrounds to the majority of Russians. The Russians are referring to their atrocities as ethnic cleansing of Nazis (so sick).

I don’t think Russia has ratified the international agreement on war crimes that gets prosecuted in Den Hague. Even if they issue an international arrest warrant for Putin as a war criminal, I am not sure how they would ever extract him from Russia.

The Kremlin clearly has no regard for UN agreements or basic human rights. However, I hope the world will find a good way to hold them accountable for all these barbaric war crimes.

Sure — although it is possible to perpetrate genocide against the same ethnicity as your own. My understanding is the term “genocide” was coined to describe the Holocaust. Of course, the Nazis murdered people who were also of German descent, in addition to Ashkenazi Jews, Slavs, Poles, etc.

The term “genocide” simply means the attempted extermination of a people in whole or part. Of course, Hitler did not consider any of the people he killed to be the same ethnicity as him, but the reality is that many of them were.

To your point about legality: I think the reason Zelensky is using the term “genocide” is because he’s trying to get the UN to term the events “genocide.” If they do so, my understanding is that there are legal ramifications. I don’t think the same holds true for ethnic cleansing, which is technically the forced resettlement of a people with the aim of making a territory “ethnically homogeneous.”

According to the UN, the "people" can be a "national group":

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ethnic cleansing and genocide are not the same thing.

For legal purposes neither is the designation crimes against humanity.

It is interesting (in a grim horrific way) that Zelensky refers to the Russian atrocities as genocide - I don’t understand how that can be the right legal framework since Ukrainians have very similar ethnic backgrounds to the majority of Russians. The Russians are referring to their atrocities as ethnic cleansing of Nazis (so sick).

I don’t think Russia has ratified the international agreement on war crimes that gets prosecuted in Den Hague. Even if they issue an international arrest warrant for Putin as a war criminal, I am not sure how they would ever extract him from Russia.

The Kremlin clearly has no regard for UN agreements or basic human rights. However, I hope the world will find a good way to hold them accountable for all these barbaric war crimes.

Article 2 of the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

Ukrainians have, for at least a century, been trying to assert their national identity as Ukrainians and NOT as Russians. Ukrainian language and culture has been actively suppressed by Russia including as part of the former Soviet Union. It is explicitly the "national" identity that Putin claims doesn't exist. He has explicitly said that he wants to return Ukraine to its rightful place as "MaloRussia" or little Russia. "DeNazification" in this case, extends to the extermination of all persons who promote the Ukrainian identity. In the beginning of the invasion, many thought that Putin would confine himself to taking Kyiv and installing a puppet ruler and claiming to have deNazified Ukraine. However, in recent weeks the language has shifted and become even more extreme -- indicating an intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation. It is the destruction of the nation and/or national identity that is genocidal.

How is Putin accomplishing this? By literally flattening cities, particularly those in the east and south that could give him a land bridge to Crimea and beyond to the Russian separatist area in Moldova. Russian forces are deporting Ukrainian citizens to Russia from Mariupol, stripping them of identity papers and belongings (including phones) and shipping them to regions further east from which it is hard to return. Many children have been transferred, without parents to Russia. They are detaining, disappearing or killing mayors and other pro-Ukrainian citizens. They are targeting hospitals and schools, which are part of the perpetration of Ukrainian citizens and culture, and they appear to be engaging in rape and torture and wholesale destruction in order to get those who won't cooperate and be "Russian" to flee to the west.


Although Russia may not have signed the treaty establishing the International Criminal Court, war crime, crimes against humanity and genocide, are all crimes of Universal Jurisdiction, meaning that the actions that comprise these crimes are so universally understood to be criminal that all nations may exert jurisdiction and try non-nationals for these crimes. For example, France, Britain and Germany are all investigating crimes in Ukraine and may either prosecute them nationally, share info with Ukrainian prosecutors or turn information over to the ICC.


If Bosnia is any illustration, it may take a long time, but all of those who were indicted by the ICTY were eventually turned over or turned themselves in to stand trial - even Milosevic, who, much like Putin, was the ruler of a country and so no one thought he would ever be subject to arrest.

The thing is, the war crimes indictment serves as a powerful motivation for a state to remove an indictee. Sanctions will never be lifted without turning over indicted persons. No country wants to pay for the sins of its leader forever.

[Anonymous]

Ukrainians and Russians are not the same ethnic group. Slav is an umbrella term that covers.multiple ethnicities.