Why aren’t art classes pass/fail?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

OPs kid could have taken art history instead of ceramics to satisfy the fine arts credit. Agree that they probably expected an easy A and then didn’t put in the work.

why should *everything* about high school have to be hard? What purpose does that serve? I don't think kids deserve easy As, but it could be pass fail or an A could be based on just completing a moderate but not killer amount of work.

I think adults forget how exhausting high school is, and it has just gotten worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

Baloney. My kids are both extremely talented artists. But they didn't just naturally become talented. They worked incredibly hard and have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours, have taken classes, etc. Art should absolutely be graded. Kids who are good in math aren't just naturally good. They work dang hard at it. I'm not saying there isn't some natural gifting in any of these areas. But it's what you do with it that matters. PE, music, electives are all the same. The kids who stand out, who really stand out and earn the A's, they earned those A's. It's not like they were naturally bestowed with ability that came easy. They worked hard. In fact, my daughter has worked so hard in art, as well as many other classes, that she's been offered a spot in Yale's art program.

NP. Some kids are definitely naturally gifted at art, math, whatever. Kids shouldn’t be graded in art for just talent, they should be graded on metrics like applying the concepts they’ve learned, technique, following the assignment, etc.

When I hear arguments like OP’s, it reminds me of kids complaining about learning math. “When will I ever use this?” Art, music, math, history, language: all of it comes together to create a fully-formed, educated adult. It’s all important.

I don't know. I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, we put *so* much pressure on high school kids already. They're stress out and they don't even get recess. Can't they just have a class that is fun? Do they need to perform all the time? Having to be on and doing and performing all the time doesn't make for a fully-formed adult either. It makes for a burned out adult.

Then request the option for a study hall , not that classes you deem unimportant become Pass/Fail. High School students get the option of choosing which art or music class to take. They can choose one they think will be of interest to them and put in the appropriate effort to get the grade they seek. If pressure is your concern, then maybe you should look elsewhere from where its coming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

OPs kid could have taken art history instead of ceramics to satisfy the fine arts credit. Agree that they probably expected an easy A and then didn’t put in the work.

why should *everything* about high school have to be hard? What purpose does that serve? I don't think kids deserve easy As, but it could be pass fail or an A could be based on just completing a moderate but not killer amount of work.

I think adults forget how exhausting high school is, and it has just gotten worse.

By that logic why aren’t all classes pass/fail? Classes have specific requirements in order to get the desired grade. If you’d like to petition the BOE and Central Office for a grading system that allows students the choice of either taking each (or some) courses for grade or as Pass/Fail, have at it. But don’t assume that the Fine Arts department is going to sign up to have all there classes be the only ones that are P/F.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

Baloney. My kids are both extremely talented artists. But they didn't just naturally become talented. They worked incredibly hard and have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours, have taken classes, etc. Art should absolutely be graded. Kids who are good in math aren't just naturally good. They work dang hard at it. I'm not saying there isn't some natural gifting in any of these areas. But it's what you do with it that matters. PE, music, electives are all the same. The kids who stand out, who really stand out and earn the A's, they earned those A's. It's not like they were naturally bestowed with ability that came easy. They worked hard. In fact, my daughter has worked so hard in art, as well as many other classes, that she's been offered a spot in Yale's art program.

NP. Some kids are definitely naturally gifted at art, math, whatever. Kids shouldn’t be graded in art for just talent, they should be graded on metrics like applying the concepts they’ve learned, technique, following the assignment, etc.

When I hear arguments like OP’s, it reminds me of kids complaining about learning math. “When will I ever use this?” Art, music, math, history, language: all of it comes together to create a fully-formed, educated adult. It’s all important.

I don't know. I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, we put *so* much pressure on high school kids already. They're stress out and they don't even get recess. Can't they just have a class that is fun? Do they need to perform all the time? Having to be on and doing and performing all the time doesn't make for a fully-formed adult either. It makes for a burned out adult.

Then request the option for a study hall , not that classes you deem unimportant become Pass/Fail. High School students get the option of choosing which art or music class to take. They can choose one they think will be of interest to them and put in the appropriate effort to get the grade they seek. If pressure is your concern, then maybe you should look elsewhere from where its coming.

Art is important! Isn't it better to have kids be exposed to art in a low-pressure environment and have it be pass fail than to have them do a study hall?

And the pressure is coming from school and societal expectations for school performance. This causes stress and is one of the reasons why anxiety and depression are on the rise. Expectations are higher than they were for us, and the stakes are higher too.

https://www.businessinsider.com/high-school-harder-earlier-generation-2011-12

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/02/20/most-u-s-teens-see-anxiety-and-depression-as-a-major-problem-among-their-peers/

https://apnews.com/article/20842d79c43048499ed8b090031c51e3

https://www.newportinstitute.com/resources/mental-health/academic-pressure/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

OPs kid could have taken art history instead of ceramics to satisfy the fine arts credit. Agree that they probably expected an easy A and then didn’t put in the work.

why should *everything* about high school have to be hard? What purpose does that serve? I don't think kids deserve easy As, but it could be pass fail or an A could be based on just completing a moderate but not killer amount of work.

I think adults forget how exhausting high school is, and it has just gotten worse.

By that logic why aren’t all classes pass/fail? Classes have specific requirements in order to get the desired grade. If you’d like to petition the BOE and Central Office for a grading system that allows students the choice of either taking each (or some) courses for grade or as Pass/Fail, have at it. But don’t assume that the Fine Arts department is going to sign up to have all there classes be the only ones that are P/F.

This is ego talking, not a concern for students and art education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

Baloney. My kids are both extremely talented artists. But they didn't just naturally become talented. They worked incredibly hard and have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours, have taken classes, etc. Art should absolutely be graded. Kids who are good in math aren't just naturally good. They work dang hard at it. I'm not saying there isn't some natural gifting in any of these areas. But it's what you do with it that matters. PE, music, electives are all the same. The kids who stand out, who really stand out and earn the A's, they earned those A's. It's not like they were naturally bestowed with ability that came easy. They worked hard. In fact, my daughter has worked so hard in art, as well as many other classes, that she's been offered a spot in Yale's art program.

NP. Some kids are definitely naturally gifted at art, math, whatever. Kids shouldn’t be graded in art for just talent, they should be graded on metrics like applying the concepts they’ve learned, technique, following the assignment, etc.

When I hear arguments like OP’s, it reminds me of kids complaining about learning math. “When will I ever use this?” Art, music, math, history, language: all of it comes together to create a fully-formed, educated adult. It’s all important.

I don't know. I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, we put *so* much pressure on high school kids already. They're stress out and they don't even get recess. Can't they just have a class that is fun? Do they need to perform all the time? Having to be on and doing and performing all the time doesn't make for a fully-formed adult either. It makes for a burned out adult.

Then request the option for a study hall , not that classes you deem unimportant become Pass/Fail. High School students get the option of choosing which art or music class to take. They can choose one they think will be of interest to them and put in the appropriate effort to get the grade they seek. If pressure is your concern, then maybe you should look elsewhere from where its coming.

Weird response.

1. Can’t request study hall for a freshman who needs to take a certain number of art credits.

2. Baffled why you would snarkily assume pressure is coming from the parents. As I said earlier, I have one in college who didn’t take high very seriously. I’m a hands off parent when it comes to grades. Sink or swim/life with your consequences. My kid works hard in all classes. FTR, they aren’t flipping out about it. They realize the teacher is a jerk who apparently is tougher on boys (that tracks with feedback some other kids we know have provided).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

Baloney. My kids are both extremely talented artists. But they didn't just naturally become talented. They worked incredibly hard and have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours, have taken classes, etc. Art should absolutely be graded. Kids who are good in math aren't just naturally good. They work dang hard at it. I'm not saying there isn't some natural gifting in any of these areas. But it's what you do with it that matters. PE, music, electives are all the same. The kids who stand out, who really stand out and earn the A's, they earned those A's. It's not like they were naturally bestowed with ability that came easy. They worked hard. In fact, my daughter has worked so hard in art, as well as many other classes, that she's been offered a spot in Yale's art program.

NP. Some kids are definitely naturally gifted at art, math, whatever. Kids shouldn’t be graded in art for just talent, they should be graded on metrics like applying the concepts they’ve learned, technique, following the assignment, etc.

When I hear arguments like OP’s, it reminds me of kids complaining about learning math. “When will I ever use this?” Art, music, math, history, language: all of it comes together to create a fully-formed, educated adult. It’s all important.

I don't know. I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, we put *so* much pressure on high school kids already. They're stress out and they don't even get recess. Can't they just have a class that is fun? Do they need to perform all the time? Having to be on and doing and performing all the time doesn't make for a fully-formed adult either. It makes for a burned out adult.

Then request the option for a study hall , not that classes you deem unimportant become Pass/Fail. High School students get the option of choosing which art or music class to take. They can choose one they think will be of interest to them and put in the appropriate effort to get the grade they seek. If pressure is your concern, then maybe you should look elsewhere from where its coming.

Weird response.

1. Can’t request study hall for a freshman who needs to take a certain number of art credits.

2. Baffled why you would snarkily assume pressure is coming from the parents. As I said earlier, I have one in college who didn’t take high very seriously. I’m a hands off parent when it comes to grades. Sink or swim/life with your consequences. My kid works hard in all classes. FTR, they aren’t flipping out about it. They realize the teacher is a jerk who apparently is tougher on boys (that tracks with feedback some other kids we know have provided).

No one assumed it was coming from parents the advice was seek out where it was coming from and you not assume Art is super stressful for all kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

Baloney. My kids are both extremely talented artists. But they didn't just naturally become talented. They worked incredibly hard and have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours, have taken classes, etc. Art should absolutely be graded. Kids who are good in math aren't just naturally good. They work dang hard at it. I'm not saying there isn't some natural gifting in any of these areas. But it's what you do with it that matters. PE, music, electives are all the same. The kids who stand out, who really stand out and earn the A's, they earned those A's. It's not like they were naturally bestowed with ability that came easy. They worked hard. In fact, my daughter has worked so hard in art, as well as many other classes, that she's been offered a spot in Yale's art program.

NP. Some kids are definitely naturally gifted at art, math, whatever. Kids shouldn’t be graded in art for just talent, they should be graded on metrics like applying the concepts they’ve learned, technique, following the assignment, etc.

When I hear arguments like OP’s, it reminds me of kids complaining about learning math. “When will I ever use this?” Art, music, math, history, language: all of it comes together to create a fully-formed, educated adult. It’s all important.

I don't know. I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, we put *so* much pressure on high school kids already. They're stress out and they don't even get recess. Can't they just have a class that is fun? Do they need to perform all the time? Having to be on and doing and performing all the time doesn't make for a fully-formed adult either. It makes for a burned out adult.

Then request the option for a study hall , not that classes you deem unimportant become Pass/Fail. High School students get the option of choosing which art or music class to take. They can choose one they think will be of interest to them and put in the appropriate effort to get the grade they seek. If pressure is your concern, then maybe you should look elsewhere from where its coming.

Art is important! Isn't it better to have kids be exposed to art in a low-pressure environment and have it be pass fail than to have them do a study hall?

And the pressure is coming from school and societal expectations for school performance. This causes stress and is one of the reasons why anxiety and depression are on the rise. Expectations are higher than they were for us, and the stakes are higher too.

https://www.businessinsider.com/high-school-harder-earlier-generation-2011-12

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/02/20/most-u-s-teens-see-anxiety-and-depression-as-a-major-problem-among-their-peers/

https://apnews.com/article/20842d79c43048499ed8b090031c51e3

https://www.newportinstitute.com/resources/mental-health/academic-pressure/

Couldn’t the above bolded statement be true for all classes, so why are you making Art the class that needs to be easier or have different grading?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

Baloney. My kids are both extremely talented artists. But they didn't just naturally become talented. They worked incredibly hard and have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours, have taken classes, etc. Art should absolutely be graded. Kids who are good in math aren't just naturally good. They work dang hard at it. I'm not saying there isn't some natural gifting in any of these areas. But it's what you do with it that matters. PE, music, electives are all the same. The kids who stand out, who really stand out and earn the A's, they earned those A's. It's not like they were naturally bestowed with ability that came easy. They worked hard. In fact, my daughter has worked so hard in art, as well as many other classes, that she's been offered a spot in Yale's art program.

NP. Some kids are definitely naturally gifted at art, math, whatever. Kids shouldn’t be graded in art for just talent, they should be graded on metrics like applying the concepts they’ve learned, technique, following the assignment, etc.

When I hear arguments like OP’s, it reminds me of kids complaining about learning math. “When will I ever use this?” Art, music, math, history, language: all of it comes together to create a fully-formed, educated adult. It’s all important.

I don't know. I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, we put *so* much pressure on high school kids already. They're stress out and they don't even get recess. Can't they just have a class that is fun? Do they need to perform all the time? Having to be on and doing and performing all the time doesn't make for a fully-formed adult either. It makes for a burned out adult.

Then request the option for a study hall , not that classes you deem unimportant become Pass/Fail. High School students get the option of choosing which art or music class to take. They can choose one they think will be of interest to them and put in the appropriate effort to get the grade they seek. If pressure is your concern, then maybe you should look elsewhere from where its coming.

Weird response.

1. Can’t request study hall for a freshman who needs to take a certain number of art credits.

2. Baffled why you would snarkily assume pressure is coming from the parents. As I said earlier, I have one in college who didn’t take high very seriously. I’m a hands off parent when it comes to grades. Sink or swim/life with your consequences. My kid works hard in all classes. FTR, they aren’t flipping out about it. They realize the teacher is a jerk who apparently is tougher on boys (that tracks with feedback some other kids we know have provided).

No one assumed it was coming from parents the advice was seek out where it was coming from and you not assume Art is super stressful for all kids.

Who assumed art was super stressful? It shouldn’t be. It should be fun…and pass/fail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

Baloney. My kids are both extremely talented artists. But they didn't just naturally become talented. They worked incredibly hard and have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours, have taken classes, etc. Art should absolutely be graded. Kids who are good in math aren't just naturally good. They work dang hard at it. I'm not saying there isn't some natural gifting in any of these areas. But it's what you do with it that matters. PE, music, electives are all the same. The kids who stand out, who really stand out and earn the A's, they earned those A's. It's not like they were naturally bestowed with ability that came easy. They worked hard. In fact, my daughter has worked so hard in art, as well as many other classes, that she's been offered a spot in Yale's art program.

NP. Some kids are definitely naturally gifted at art, math, whatever. Kids shouldn’t be graded in art for just talent, they should be graded on metrics like applying the concepts they’ve learned, technique, following the assignment, etc.

When I hear arguments like OP’s, it reminds me of kids complaining about learning math. “When will I ever use this?” Art, music, math, history, language: all of it comes together to create a fully-formed, educated adult. It’s all important.

I don't know. I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, we put *so* much pressure on high school kids already. They're stress out and they don't even get recess. Can't they just have a class that is fun? Do they need to perform all the time? Having to be on and doing and performing all the time doesn't make for a fully-formed adult either. It makes for a burned out adult.

If your kid wants to take an art class for fun without worrying about their grade, find a class to enroll them in outside of school during evenings or weekends.

Even better if your kid wants art, music or sports do it on your own time. School should be focused on basics like reading and math since too many already don't meet these basic expectations.

So only rich kids get to do art, music and sports? No, I can tell that you did not grow up in the U.S. There is a reason that our country led the world in innovation, and it wasn't drill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

Baloney. My kids are both extremely talented artists. But they didn't just naturally become talented. They worked incredibly hard and have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours, have taken classes, etc. Art should absolutely be graded. Kids who are good in math aren't just naturally good. They work dang hard at it. I'm not saying there isn't some natural gifting in any of these areas. But it's what you do with it that matters. PE, music, electives are all the same. The kids who stand out, who really stand out and earn the A's, they earned those A's. It's not like they were naturally bestowed with ability that came easy. They worked hard. In fact, my daughter has worked so hard in art, as well as many other classes, that she's been offered a spot in Yale's art program.

NP. Some kids are definitely naturally gifted at art, math, whatever. Kids shouldn’t be graded in art for just talent, they should be graded on metrics like applying the concepts they’ve learned, technique, following the assignment, etc.

When I hear arguments like OP’s, it reminds me of kids complaining about learning math. “When will I ever use this?” Art, music, math, history, language: all of it comes together to create a fully-formed, educated adult. It’s all important.

I don't know. I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, we put *so* much pressure on high school kids already. They're stress out and they don't even get recess. Can't they just have a class that is fun? Do they need to perform all the time? Having to be on and doing and performing all the time doesn't make for a fully-formed adult either. It makes for a burned out adult.

Then request the option for a study hall , not that classes you deem unimportant become Pass/Fail. High School students get the option of choosing which art or music class to take. They can choose one they think will be of interest to them and put in the appropriate effort to get the grade they seek. If pressure is your concern, then maybe you should look elsewhere from where its coming.

Weird response.

1. Can’t request study hall for a freshman who needs to take a certain number of art credits.

2. Baffled why you would snarkily assume pressure is coming from the parents. As I said earlier, I have one in college who didn’t take high very seriously. I’m a hands off parent when it comes to grades. Sink or swim/life with your consequences. My kid works hard in all classes. FTR, they aren’t flipping out about it. They realize the teacher is a jerk who apparently is tougher on boys (that tracks with feedback some other kids we know have provided).

No one assumed it was coming from parents the advice was seek out where it was coming from and you not assume Art is super stressful for all kids.

Who assumed art was super stressful? It shouldn’t be. It should be fun…and pass/fail.

Math shouldn’t be super stressful. It should be pass/fail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

OPs kid could have taken art history instead of ceramics to satisfy the fine arts credit. Agree that they probably expected an easy A and then didn’t put in the work.

why should *everything* about high school have to be hard? What purpose does that serve? I don't think kids deserve easy As, but it could be pass fail or an A could be based on just completing a moderate but not killer amount of work.

I think adults forget how exhausting high school is, and it has just gotten worse.

Agree this is an intro course. Just like a kid's first math course the skill required should be minimal to none.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

Baloney. My kids are both extremely talented artists. But they didn't just naturally become talented. They worked incredibly hard and have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours, have taken classes, etc. Art should absolutely be graded. Kids who are good in math aren't just naturally good. They work dang hard at it. I'm not saying there isn't some natural gifting in any of these areas. But it's what you do with it that matters. PE, music, electives are all the same. The kids who stand out, who really stand out and earn the A's, they earned those A's. It's not like they were naturally bestowed with ability that came easy. They worked hard. In fact, my daughter has worked so hard in art, as well as many other classes, that she's been offered a spot in Yale's art program.

NP. Some kids are definitely naturally gifted at art, math, whatever. Kids shouldn’t be graded in art for just talent, they should be graded on metrics like applying the concepts they’ve learned, technique, following the assignment, etc.

When I hear arguments like OP’s, it reminds me of kids complaining about learning math. “When will I ever use this?” Art, music, math, history, language: all of it comes together to create a fully-formed, educated adult. It’s all important.

I don't know. I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, we put *so* much pressure on high school kids already. They're stress out and they don't even get recess. Can't they just have a class that is fun? Do they need to perform all the time? Having to be on and doing and performing all the time doesn't make for a fully-formed adult either. It makes for a burned out adult.

Then request the option for a study hall , not that classes you deem unimportant become Pass/Fail. High School students get the option of choosing which art or music class to take. They can choose one they think will be of interest to them and put in the appropriate effort to get the grade they seek. If pressure is your concern, then maybe you should look elsewhere from where its coming.

Weird response.

1. Can’t request study hall for a freshman who needs to take a certain number of art credits.

2. Baffled why you would snarkily assume pressure is coming from the parents. As I said earlier, I have one in college who didn’t take high very seriously. I’m a hands off parent when it comes to grades. Sink or swim/life with your consequences. My kid works hard in all classes. FTR, they aren’t flipping out about it. They realize the teacher is a jerk who apparently is tougher on boys (that tracks with feedback some other kids we know have provided).

No one assumed it was coming from parents the advice was seek out where it was coming from and you not assume Art is super stressful for all kids.

Who assumed art was super stressful? It shouldn’t be. It should be fun…and pass/fail.

Math shouldn’t be super stressful. It should be pass/fail.

In fact, it is for the first 3 years in K-2.

[Anonymous]

If the pressure isn't coming from parents, then I'd assume that a B or a C in Art is no problem for you. You can say "oh it's the colleges" all you want, but there are literally thousands of schools that will readily accept kids who have a B or even a C average, not just one B in an art class. So many parents insist their kid needs to get into a "good" college, so they can get the best jobs that make the most money. It's all wealth culture driven, in the end, from parents who want their kid to have more than others.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

Baloney. My kids are both extremely talented artists. But they didn't just naturally become talented. They worked incredibly hard and have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours, have taken classes, etc. Art should absolutely be graded. Kids who are good in math aren't just naturally good. They work dang hard at it. I'm not saying there isn't some natural gifting in any of these areas. But it's what you do with it that matters. PE, music, electives are all the same. The kids who stand out, who really stand out and earn the A's, they earned those A's. It's not like they were naturally bestowed with ability that came easy. They worked hard. In fact, my daughter has worked so hard in art, as well as many other classes, that she's been offered a spot in Yale's art program.

NP. Some kids are definitely naturally gifted at art, math, whatever. Kids shouldn’t be graded in art for just talent, they should be graded on metrics like applying the concepts they’ve learned, technique, following the assignment, etc.

When I hear arguments like OP’s, it reminds me of kids complaining about learning math. “When will I ever use this?” Art, music, math, history, language: all of it comes together to create a fully-formed, educated adult. It’s all important.

I don't know. I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, we put *so* much pressure on high school kids already. They're stress out and they don't even get recess. Can't they just have a class that is fun? Do they need to perform all the time? Having to be on and doing and performing all the time doesn't make for a fully-formed adult either. It makes for a burned out adult.

Then request the option for a study hall , not that classes you deem unimportant become Pass/Fail. High School students get the option of choosing which art or music class to take. They can choose one they think will be of interest to them and put in the appropriate effort to get the grade they seek. If pressure is your concern, then maybe you should look elsewhere from where its coming.

Weird response.

1. Can’t request study hall for a freshman who needs to take a certain number of art credits.

2. Baffled why you would snarkily assume pressure is coming from the parents. As I said earlier, I have one in college who didn’t take high very seriously. I’m a hands off parent when it comes to grades. Sink or swim/life with your consequences. My kid works hard in all classes. FTR, they aren’t flipping out about it. They realize the teacher is a jerk who apparently is tougher on boys (that tracks with feedback some other kids we know have provided).

No one assumed it was coming from parents the advice was seek out where it was coming from and you not assume Art is super stressful for all kids.

Who assumed art was super stressful? It shouldn’t be. It should be fun…and pass/fail.

Art isn’t all fun. As an artist I can tell you that each time I learn a new technique, I have to learn the names of new tools and how they work. I have to learn how heat affects the medium I’m using so I can program a kiln to do what I want. I have to actually learn the technique which can be really difficult and not at all fun during the learning process.

Kids have so many options for getting their fine arts credit. Art, such as ceramics is one of so many things a kid can take. Art is definitely not required in order to fulfill graduation requirements in MCPS.