Why aren’t art classes pass/fail?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren't the classes you're kid earned As in pass/ fail?
Maybe you passed your rigid thinking into your kid and they just aren't very creative.

Those kinds of classes don't belong in a public education curriculum. I agree with the PP that they should be P/F.

Yes, arts and sports are distractions. Right now kids can barely read on grade level. They need to eliminate this stuff and get back to the basics.

Right, learning deficiencies are totally due to too much PE and art.

You do not understand (and I am different poster). I would be for an additional hour of reading in lieu of getting rid of art.

Back in the day when kids learned to read in school, they also took Art and PE, so I don't think those are the problem. Reading already takes way too much of the time in school. It is how they are teaching reading that is the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren't the classes you're kid earned As in pass/ fail?
Maybe you passed your rigid thinking into your kid and they just aren't very creative.

Those kinds of classes don't belong in a public education curriculum. I agree with the PP that they should be P/F.

Yes, arts and sports are distractions. Right now kids can barely read on grade level. They need to eliminate this stuff and get back to the basics.

Right, learning deficiencies are totally due to too much PE and art.

You do not understand (and I am different poster). I would be for an additional hour of reading in lieu of getting rid of art.

Back in the day when kids learned to read in school, they also took Art and PE, so I don't think those are the problem. Reading already takes way too much of the time in school. It is how they are teaching reading that is the problem.

Back in what day?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren't the classes you're kid earned As in pass/ fail?
Maybe you passed your rigid thinking into your kid and they just aren't very creative.

Those kinds of classes don't belong in a public education curriculum. I agree with the PP that they should be P/F.

Yes, arts and sports are distractions. Right now kids can barely read on grade level. They need to eliminate this stuff and get back to the basics.

Right, learning deficiencies are totally due to too much PE and art.

You do not understand (and I am different poster). I would be for an additional hour of reading in lieu of getting rid of art.

Back in the day when kids learned to read in school, they also took Art and PE, so I don't think those are the problem. Reading already takes way too much of the time in school. It is how they are teaching reading that is the problem.

By the way you mean not teaching it at all? Seriously my kid who is one of the few on grade level hasn't had a reading group in months. They basically ignore them because they aren't behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren't the classes you're kid earned As in pass/ fail?
Maybe you passed your rigid thinking into your kid and they just aren't very creative.

Those kinds of classes don't belong in a public education curriculum. I agree with the PP that they should be P/F.

Yikes.

Double yikes! Holy crap, pp, people like you are what’s wrong with public education. You don’t value the arts. How else are vulnerable/underprivileged children going to access things like music and art education?? You are supremely selfish.

[Anonymous]

I get the feeling that those who say "art doesn't belong in a public school education" actually mean "only 'academic' subjects should be graded, because I'm hyperfocused on my kid getting the 'best' grades to get into the 'best' schools so they get the 'best' jobs and have money and status, and because of that, I've only ever pushed my kid in reading and math and a smattering of history and science, so they might not do as well in art and that's not faaaaaiiiir."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get the feeling that those who say "art doesn't belong in a public school education" actually mean "only 'academic' subjects should be graded, because I'm hyperfocused on my kid getting the 'best' grades to get into the 'best' schools so they get the 'best' jobs and have money and status, and because of that, I've only ever pushed my kid in reading and math and a smattering of history and science, so they might not do as well in art and that's not faaaaaiiiir."

Maybe.

But I’m the op, and that’s definitely not me.

I’m a hands off parent. Truly. My kids are responsible for their grades, their choices, etc. My kid told us their grades and commented that it was frustrating to get a B in ceramics since they “suck” at it despite trying. That prompted a discussion on why they don’t simply make certain classes pass/fail. Or, why certain teachers don’t realize the pecking order and lack of importance of their class.

[Anonymous]

I upset my art teacher, and later on my philosophy teacher, because I didn't agree with them about something. I've always an A student. Unsurprisingly, in retrospect, it is in those classes that I got a Bs.

In these more subjective areas, the grading criteria should be transparent and easy to understand. Otherwise grading should be P/F. Otherwise the school can be creating a bunch of yes-men/sheep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get the feeling that those who say "art doesn't belong in a public school education" actually mean "only 'academic' subjects should be graded, because I'm hyperfocused on my kid getting the 'best' grades to get into the 'best' schools so they get the 'best' jobs and have money and status, and because of that, I've only ever pushed my kid in reading and math and a smattering of history and science, so they might not do as well in art and that's not faaaaaiiiir."

Maybe.

But I’m the op, and that’s definitely not me.

I’m a hands off parent. Truly. My kids are responsible for their grades, their choices, etc. My kid told us their grades and commented that it was frustrating to get a B in ceramics since they “suck” at it despite trying. That prompted a discussion on why they don’t simply make certain classes pass/fail. Or, why certain teachers don’t realize the pecking order and lack of importance of their class.

I used to teach art, and taught a high school ceramics class. The grade is not for the look of the output, but the learning of the process. My class was treated as an easy A, when in reality if you took shortcuts, didn’t follow the steps outlined, etc. you would not do well. But it was an easy A for a student who was willing to try and fail and try again, who would follow the instructions, and who was willing to put in the effort to learn about ceramics. Often the creators of the most beautiful pieces did not get As, because they didn’t bother with doing it the way we were learning and students whose piece was not the most polished would get the A because of the effort made.

[Anonymous]

That seems pretty crappy, to be honest. Losing a 4.0 because your art isn’t exceptional? I totally agree that it should be based on effort. I have a child who creates truly exceptional art, because it’s the #1 interest in her life and she has been watching YouTube tutorials on how to do it from the time she was 3. There is no way that I could paint as well as she could even with a ton of effort.

I wonder if the teacher has a chip on her/his shoulder about the value of art or how seriously it should be taken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get the feeling that those who say "art doesn't belong in a public school education" actually mean "only 'academic' subjects should be graded, because I'm hyperfocused on my kid getting the 'best' grades to get into the 'best' schools so they get the 'best' jobs and have money and status, and because of that, I've only ever pushed my kid in reading and math and a smattering of history and science, so they might not do as well in art and that's not faaaaaiiiir."

Maybe.

But I’m the op, and that’s definitely not me.

I’m a hands off parent. Truly. My kids are responsible for their grades, their choices, etc. My kid told us their grades and commented that it was frustrating to get a B in ceramics since they “suck” at it despite trying. That prompted a discussion on why they don’t simply make certain classes pass/fail. Or, why certain teachers don’t realize the pecking order and lack of importance of their class.

I used to teach art, and taught a high school ceramics class. The grade is not for the look of the output, but the learning of the process. My class was treated as an easy A, when in reality if you took shortcuts, didn’t follow the steps outlined, etc. you would not do well. But it was an easy A for a student who was willing to try and fail and try again, who would follow the instructions, and who was willing to put in the effort to learn about ceramics. Often the creators of the most beautiful pieces did not get As, because they didn’t bother with doing it the way we were learning and students whose piece was not the most polished would get the A because of the effort made.

NP. I think this sounds totally fair, as long as the expectations are made crystal clear from the beginning. The fact is that art is an easy A for a lot of teachers and it’s not wild that students would sign up for it expecting it to be a GPA booster with little effort.

But I think your approach is great. We have this idea that art is a gift that can’t be leaned and im sure a lot of your students learned that they could create things they previously never dreamed of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My high schooler earned all except in art. The teacher said she only gives As to students whose art is outstanding.

Why shouldn’t classes like art, music, and PE be pass/fail?

Can you share which high school and which art class? TIA!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get the feeling that those who say "art doesn't belong in a public school education" actually mean "only 'academic' subjects should be graded, because I'm hyperfocused on my kid getting the 'best' grades to get into the 'best' schools so they get the 'best' jobs and have money and status, and because of that, I've only ever pushed my kid in reading and math and a smattering of history and science, so they might not do as well in art and that's not faaaaaiiiir."

Maybe.

But I’m the op, and that’s definitely not me.

I’m a hands off parent. Truly. My kids are responsible for their grades, their choices, etc. My kid told us their grades and commented that it was frustrating to get a B in ceramics since they “suck” at it despite trying. That prompted a discussion on why they don’t simply make certain classes pass/fail. Or, why certain teachers don’t realize the pecking order and lack of importance of their class.

I was agreeing with you right up until you said they should understand the lack of importance of their class. This is their profession. They trained for it, they are evaluated on it by their supervisors, they continue to take professional development classes, etc. They are not simply going to admit to you that their profession doesn’t matter any more than you would admit your job doesn’t matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren't the classes you're kid earned As in pass/ fail?
Maybe you passed your rigid thinking into your kid and they just aren't very creative.

Those kinds of classes don't belong in a public education curriculum. I agree with the PP that they should be P/F.

Yes, arts and sports are distractions. Right now kids can barely read on grade level. They need to eliminate this stuff and get back to the basics.

Np First, it has been discovered that music and art not only enhance your life it improves academic achievement. For those kids who struggle in school it can also be a lifesaver.


https://www.theodysseyonline.com/the-importance-of-art-and-music-programs-in-schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get the feeling that those who say "art doesn't belong in a public school education" actually mean "only 'academic' subjects should be graded, because I'm hyperfocused on my kid getting the 'best' grades to get into the 'best' schools so they get the 'best' jobs and have money and status, and because of that, I've only ever pushed my kid in reading and math and a smattering of history and science, so they might not do as well in art and that's not faaaaaiiiir."

Maybe.

But I’m the op, and that’s definitely not me.

I’m a hands off parent. Truly. My kids are responsible for their grades, their choices, etc. My kid told us their grades and commented that it was frustrating to get a B in ceramics since they “suck” at it despite trying. That prompted a discussion on why they don’t simply make certain classes pass/fail. Or, why certain teachers don’t realize the pecking order and lack of importance of their class.

I was agreeing with you right up until you said they should understand the lack of importance of their class. This is their profession. They trained for it, they are evaluated on it by their supervisors, they continue to take professional development classes, etc. They are not simply going to admit to you that their profession doesn’t matter any more than you would admit your job doesn’t matter.

Again, how much visibility do you have on mcps art and pe teachers and what goes on in their class? Very few take their profession seriously, and apparently a select few take it way too seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I upset my art teacher, and later on my philosophy teacher, because I didn't agree with them about something. I've always an A student. Unsurprisingly, in retrospect, it is in those classes that I got a Bs.

In these more subjective areas, the grading criteria should be transparent and easy to understand. Otherwise grading should be P/F. Otherwise the school can be creating a bunch of yes-men/sheep.

Agreed.

And I wonder if my student is actually being penalized because their older sibling is a free spirit who didn’t take school seriously. My younger is more academically inclined and actually works hard to maintain straight As. I asked my older one (who is in college now) if the ceramics teacher liked him, and he quickly said, “Oh no, she definitely hated me. She hated all the boys in the class.”