Why aren’t art classes pass/fail?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

Baloney. My kids are both extremely talented artists. But they didn't just naturally become talented. They worked incredibly hard and have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours, have taken classes, etc. Art should absolutely be graded. Kids who are good in math aren't just naturally good. They work dang hard at it. I'm not saying there isn't some natural gifting in any of these areas. But it's what you do with it that matters. PE, music, electives are all the same. The kids who stand out, who really stand out and earn the A's, they earned those A's. It's not like they were naturally bestowed with ability that came easy. They worked hard. In fact, my daughter has worked so hard in art, as well as many other classes, that she's been offered a spot in Yale's art program.

NP. Some kids are definitely naturally gifted at art, math, whatever. Kids shouldn’t be graded in art for just talent, they should be graded on metrics like applying the concepts they’ve learned, technique, following the assignment, etc.

When I hear arguments like OP’s, it reminds me of kids complaining about learning math. “When will I ever use this?” Art, music, math, history, language: all of it comes together to create a fully-formed, educated adult. It’s all important.

I don't know. I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, we put *so* much pressure on high school kids already. They're stress out and they don't even get recess. Can't they just have a class that is fun? Do they need to perform all the time? Having to be on and doing and performing all the time doesn't make for a fully-formed adult either. It makes for a burned out adult.

Then request the option for a study hall , not that classes you deem unimportant become Pass/Fail. High School students get the option of choosing which art or music class to take. They can choose one they think will be of interest to them and put in the appropriate effort to get the grade they seek. If pressure is your concern, then maybe you should look elsewhere from where its coming.

Weird response.

1. Can’t request study hall for a freshman who needs to take a certain number of art credits.

2. Baffled why you would snarkily assume pressure is coming from the parents. As I said earlier, I have one in college who didn’t take high very seriously. I’m a hands off parent when it comes to grades. Sink or swim/life with your consequences. My kid works hard in all classes. FTR, they aren’t flipping out about it. They realize the teacher is a jerk who apparently is tougher on boys (that tracks with feedback some other kids we know have provided).

No one assumed it was coming from parents the advice was seek out where it was coming from and you not assume Art is super stressful for all kids.

Who assumed art was super stressful? It shouldn’t be. It should be fun…and pass/fail.

Math shouldn’t be super stressful. It should be pass/fail.

In fact, it is for the first 3 years in K-2.

Touche!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

Baloney. My kids are both extremely talented artists. But they didn't just naturally become talented. They worked incredibly hard and have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours, have taken classes, etc. Art should absolutely be graded. Kids who are good in math aren't just naturally good. They work dang hard at it. I'm not saying there isn't some natural gifting in any of these areas. But it's what you do with it that matters. PE, music, electives are all the same. The kids who stand out, who really stand out and earn the A's, they earned those A's. It's not like they were naturally bestowed with ability that came easy. They worked hard. In fact, my daughter has worked so hard in art, as well as many other classes, that she's been offered a spot in Yale's art program.

NP. Some kids are definitely naturally gifted at art, math, whatever. Kids shouldn’t be graded in art for just talent, they should be graded on metrics like applying the concepts they’ve learned, technique, following the assignment, etc.

When I hear arguments like OP’s, it reminds me of kids complaining about learning math. “When will I ever use this?” Art, music, math, history, language: all of it comes together to create a fully-formed, educated adult. It’s all important.

Here’s the thing: the teacher is seemingly NOT grading based on following instructions, applying concepts, etc. She is grading based on appearance/art. And that’s not cool. This is based on what she tells students.

This is a bad art teacher issue, not an art classes should be pass/fail issue.

Disagree.

Gpa matters, and academic colleges shouldn’t care how a kid did in art or pe. College students are not required to take art or pe in college. It’s required in HS. Fine. Then make it pass/fail.

For those who have not gone through the college application process, many schools now recalculate GPA. They usually remove electives and some other classes that they don't consider "academically rigorous" so it may be a non-issue for many kids. By the way colleges don't advertise this but will tell you if you ask.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Art, PE and Music elective classes should be pass/fail in high school. There is no reason to grade those classes. Students are required to take them as electives to graduate. Some kids are lucky because they have a natural talent or affinity for one or more of those areas, but for the rest of us, it really sucks to be graded. Better for kids to have exposure to these subjects than resent them because they get graded. However, AP Music Theory, AP Art History etc., are truly academic classes and of course should be graded.

Baloney. My kids are both extremely talented artists. But they didn't just naturally become talented. They worked incredibly hard and have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours, have taken classes, etc. Art should absolutely be graded. Kids who are good in math aren't just naturally good. They work dang hard at it. I'm not saying there isn't some natural gifting in any of these areas. But it's what you do with it that matters. PE, music, electives are all the same. The kids who stand out, who really stand out and earn the A's, they earned those A's. It's not like they were naturally bestowed with ability that came easy. They worked hard. In fact, my daughter has worked so hard in art, as well as many other classes, that she's been offered a spot in Yale's art program.

NP. Some kids are definitely naturally gifted at art, math, whatever. Kids shouldn’t be graded in art for just talent, they should be graded on metrics like applying the concepts they’ve learned, technique, following the assignment, etc.

When I hear arguments like OP’s, it reminds me of kids complaining about learning math. “When will I ever use this?” Art, music, math, history, language: all of it comes together to create a fully-formed, educated adult. It’s all important.

Here’s the thing: the teacher is seemingly NOT grading based on following instructions, applying concepts, etc. She is grading based on appearance/art. And that’s not cool. This is based on what she tells students.

This is a bad art teacher issue, not an art classes should be pass/fail issue.

Disagree.

Gpa matters, and academic colleges shouldn’t care how a kid did in art or pe. College students are not required to take art or pe in college. It’s required in HS. Fine. Then make it pass/fail.

For those who have not gone through the college application process, many schools now recalculate GPA. They usually remove electives and some other classes that they don't consider "academically rigorous" so it may be a non-issue for many kids. By the way colleges don't advertise this but will tell you if you ask.

That sounds great. I'm glad my kids won't be penalized for taking music.

[Anonymous]

Three years ago, our fifth graders had music class, chorus, and band/orchestra instruction once a week each. How could they fit all of this in? They didn’t have math at all one day per week (which was when they scheduled chorus), and students got pulled out of core classes in small groups for band/orchestra. Science and social studies were only taught 1-2 days per week, and you could get pulled out for band/orchestra during that time. It was crazy because fifth grade is when MISA testing happens and there was barely any science instruction. I couldn’t understand why they didn’t just replace music class with chorus (both were taught by the same teacher).

Specials are important and I wouldn’t want them dropped, but they should take a backseat to math, science and ELA. Students should be able to choose whether they want actual grades for specials or whether they want to take them pass/fail. Let the talented kids shine and the rest not have to worry about their skill level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Three years ago, our fifth graders had music class, chorus, and band/orchestra instruction once a week each. How could they fit all of this in? They didn’t have math at all one day per week (which was when they scheduled chorus), and students got pulled out of core classes in small groups for band/orchestra. Science and social studies were only taught 1-2 days per week, and you could get pulled out for band/orchestra during that time. It was crazy because fifth grade is when MISA testing happens and there was barely any science instruction. I couldn’t understand why they didn’t just replace music class with chorus (both were taught by the same teacher).

Specials are important and I wouldn’t want them dropped, but they should take a backseat to math, science and ELA. Students should be able to choose whether they want actual grades for specials or whether they want to take them pass/fail. Let the talented kids shine and the rest not have to worry about their skill level.

Or simply make the intro courses P/F and let those who wish to pursue more serious arts take it for a grade after the required offerings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Three years ago, our fifth graders had music class, chorus, and band/orchestra instruction once a week each. How could they fit all of this in? They didn’t have math at all one day per week (which was when they scheduled chorus), and students got pulled out of core classes in small groups for band/orchestra. Science and social studies were only taught 1-2 days per week, and you could get pulled out for band/orchestra during that time. It was crazy because fifth grade is when MISA testing happens and there was barely any science instruction. I couldn’t understand why they didn’t just replace music class with chorus (both were taught by the same teacher).

Specials are important and I wouldn’t want them dropped, but they should take a backseat to math, science and ELA. Students should be able to choose whether they want actual grades for specials or whether they want to take them pass/fail. Let the talented kids shine and the rest not have to worry about their skill level.

Or simply make the intro courses P/F and let those who wish to pursue more serious arts take it for a grade after the required offerings.

I’m seriously trying to understand why your 5th grade is sacrificing class time to have specials. Like kids are in school 6hrs a day. How much do you expect to be purely devoted to ELA or Math? ELA comes up in Science and Social Studies. Music and Art also come up in Science and Social Studies.