Does graduating from a Top 20 school signal that you are a smart, hardworking person?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"The reality is that generally, employers love middle class kids from state schools who achieve at those schools because they have something to prove and a long way to go to get where they want to be, so they work the hardest."

What employers??

Here are preferences from the biggest and finest consulting and finance employers.

https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/ib-target-schools

https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

All those lists show is that they have a preference for really smart, ambitious, accomplished individuals, not that they care where they did their undergraduate work.

Also, they only included people who had listed their undergrad degree on their LinkedIn profile and didn't include those with graduate degrees. There are some pretty major assumptions being made there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"The reality is that generally, employers love middle class kids from state schools who achieve at those schools because they have something to prove and a long way to go to get where they want to be, so they work the hardest."

What employers??

Here are preferences from the biggest and finest consulting and finance employers.

https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/ib-target-schools

https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

All those lists show is that they have a preference for really smart, ambitious, accomplished individuals, not that they care where they did their undergraduate work.

Also, they only included people who had listed their undergrad degree on their LinkedIn profile and didn't include those with graduate degrees. There are some pretty major assumptions being made there!

Oh, and it may also be influenced by graduates of certain universities being more focused on careers that can earn them loads of money, a value that not everyone shares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Top 20" is a euphemism and includes more than 20 schools. So CMU is top 20. Also US news is not the only undergrad ranking to use.

What are the good undergraduate rankings out there

The only good undergraduate ranking is the one you create for yourself. It's a huge decision and well worth the effort to get a list that matches your own needs and desires. Take a look at the criteria and weightings USNWR uses and see if they're anywhere close to what you would use if you were starting from scratch.

There's loads of data in the Common Data Sets, Princeton Review, USNWR, the college websites, etc. Your child's subjective ratings of each school are worth including, too. Have them give each school a rating of 1-10 on how much the like the location/campus, etc. Take what is useful and do it yourself!

There are thousands of schools. You can't possible do it on your own.
You need to start somewhere for initial screending and coming down with a draft list.
These rankings are good sources for that.

I definitely agree that you can't rank every college on your own, and that USNWR can be useful for initial screening. But you need to make sure you're not screening out colleges that might interest you b/c you're assuming anything below a certain number isn't strong enough academically. At least as important in narrowing it down might be your preferences for geography, school size, cost, proximity to a big city, availability of specific majors, and all sorts of other criteria for which USNWR doesn't offer any help.

Yes of course, so one of my kids actually chose #49 ranked school while also got in #28 and #38 ranked schools on USN&WR.
It was better school and better fit for the kid.

+1

DC got into #25, but if #38 comes through it is DC's first pick. Everything about #38 spoke louder and closer to the kid's heart than the other. Luckily DC has always been following their own path without looking toward the crowd.

[Anonymous]

This whole discussion is so arrogant. Yes, only T20 kids work hard. Sure.

There are kids that are academically just not as gifted, does that make them slackers? Not in my eyes. There are kids that work their tails off for their B's or C's. That have the determination and the perseverance to keep at it, even if the glittery goal of an A will ever remain elusive. They do not give up and keep hitting the books and late nights of homework.

And no, this is not my kid, but I have friends whose kid will never be one that things come easy to. However, in resilience, determination, and perseverance it could teach something to some of those kids that easily skate through because they just won the genetic lottery and are easy learners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"The reality is that generally, employers love middle class kids from state schools who achieve at those schools because they have something to prove and a long way to go to get where they want to be, so they work the hardest."

What employers??

Here are preferences from the biggest and finest consulting and finance employers.

https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/ib-target-schools

https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

All those lists show is that they have a preference for really smart, ambitious, accomplished individuals, not that they care where they did their undergraduate work.

Also, they only included people who had listed their undergrad degree on their LinkedIn profile and didn't include those with graduate degrees. There are some pretty major assumptions being made there!

Oh, and it may also be influenced by graduates of certain universities being more focused on careers that can earn them loads of money, a value that not everyone shares.

What value?
looks like most of those schools seem like great value especailly when you get a high paying jobs after graduation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"The reality is that generally, employers love middle class kids from state schools who achieve at those schools because they have something to prove and a long way to go to get where they want to be, so they work the hardest."

What employers??

Here are preferences from the biggest and finest consulting and finance employers.

https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/ib-target-schools

https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

All those lists show is that they have a preference for really smart, ambitious, accomplished individuals, not that they care where they did their undergraduate work.

Also, they only included people who had listed their undergrad degree on their LinkedIn profile and didn't include those with graduate degrees. There are some pretty major assumptions being made there!

Oh, and it may also be influenced by graduates of certain universities being more focused on careers that can earn them loads of money, a value that not everyone shares.

What value?
looks like most of those schools seem like great value especailly when you get a high paying jobs after graduation.

Not everyone chooses their career based on how much money they can earn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"The reality is that generally, employers love middle class kids from state schools who achieve at those schools because they have something to prove and a long way to go to get where they want to be, so they work the hardest."

What employers??

Here are preferences from the biggest and finest consulting and finance employers.

https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/ib-target-schools

https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

All those lists show is that they have a preference for really smart, ambitious, accomplished individuals, not that they care where they did their undergraduate work.

Also, they only included people who had listed their undergrad degree on their LinkedIn profile and didn't include those with graduate degrees. There are some pretty major assumptions being made there!

Oh, and it may also be influenced by graduates of certain universities being more focused on careers that can earn them loads of money, a value that not everyone shares.

What value?
looks like most of those schools seem like great value especailly when you get a high paying jobs after graduation.

Not everyone chooses their career based on how much money they can earn.

Yes value is subjective and different from person to person.
Howeer these schools have plenty values in general beside of high salary outcome.
And many empolyers prefer these schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends. Is said student graduating with straight As and going on to a prestigious grad program? Yes. Is our student scraping by with a C average and living in mommy and daddy's basement 5 years later? Not so much.

+1. You can immediately tell who the high-flyers are: For one, they put SAT score, college GPA, dean's list, and Latin honors in their LinkedIn. Two, they have prestige internships and grad schools. The frauds hide all of the IQ and work-ethic indicators, try to drown it out with bogus campus involvement crap, have suspect jobs and slip to tier 2 or 3 grad schools.

+1. Nothing says dipshit like omitting any mention of GPA and honors on resume and linkedin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole discussion is so arrogant. Yes, only T20 kids work hard. Sure.

There are kids that are academically just not as gifted, does that make them slackers? Not in my eyes. There are kids that work their tails off for their B's or C's. That have the determination and the perseverance to keep at it, even if the glittery goal of an A will ever remain elusive. They do not give up and keep hitting the books and late nights of homework.

And no, this is not my kid, but I have friends whose kid will never be one that things come easy to. However, in resilience, determination, and perseverance it could teach something to some of those kids that easily skate through because they just won the genetic lottery and are easy learners.

Thank you!! This is my kid (well, I have one of each).

[Anonymous]

T20 could conceivably have 40+ schools as there is no consensus. USNWR has two categories, National Universities and National Liberal Arts Colleges, each with a top 20. The National University advocates would like to diminish LACs, but I think most would say some of those LACs would fall in the top 20 overall for undergraduate. The academies would probably also get strong consideration.

[Anonymous]

I don't know about just graduating but if you were able to demonstrate mastery with high grades that would indicate the person likely has intellgence, a strong work ethic and discipline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:T20 could conceivably have 40+ schools as there is no consensus. USNWR has two categories, National Universities and National Liberal Arts Colleges, each with a top 20. The National University advocates would like to diminish LACs, but I think most would say some of those LACs would fall in the top 20 overall for undergraduate. The academies would probably also get strong consideration.

The only LACs that would actually have a standing chance to be considered on par with T20 universities are Williams and Amherst, and maybe Swarthmore, Pomona and Wellesley. That’s it.

[Anonymous]

Don't know how this is even a question, when you have such fine examples as Dubya and Trump. The only school I'd make an exception for is MIT; don't know any idiots or slackers to come out of there.

[Anonymous]

I went to a top ten school. I'm in my 30s now and how I show I'm hard working is through what I've accomplished at work, not what school I went to. By your mid 30s, what college you got into is 20 year old data. I'm definitely not the same person now than I was when I was 16, so why would I judge anyone on that.

When I am on hiring committees, I'll focus more on recent resume and accomplishments. For someone younger just coming out of school, their grades and class rank is more important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Top 20" is a euphemism and includes more than 20 schools. So CMU is top 20. Also US news is not the only undergrad ranking to use.

What are the good undergraduate rankings out there

The only good undergraduate ranking is the one you create for yourself. It's a huge decision and well worth the effort to get a list that matches your own needs and desires. Take a look at the criteria and weightings USNWR uses and see if they're anywhere close to what you would use if you were starting from scratch.

There's loads of data in the Common Data Sets, Princeton Review, USNWR, the college websites, etc. Your child's subjective ratings of each school are worth including, too. Have them give each school a rating of 1-10 on how much the like the location/campus, etc. Take what is useful and do it yourself!

There are thousands of schools. You can't possible do it on your own.
You need to start somewhere for initial screending and coming down with a draft list.
These rankings are good sources for that.

I definitely agree that you can't rank every college on your own, and that USNWR can be useful for initial screening. But you need to make sure you're not screening out colleges that might interest you b/c you're assuming anything below a certain number isn't strong enough academically. At least as important in narrowing it down might be your preferences for geography, school size, cost, proximity to a big city, availability of specific majors, and all sorts of other criteria for which USNWR doesn't offer any help.

Yes of course, so one of my kids actually chose #49 ranked school while also got in #28 and #38 ranked schools on USN&WR.
It was better school and better fit for the kid.

+1

DC got into #25, but if #38 comes through it is DC's first pick. Everything about #38 spoke louder and closer to the kid's heart than the other. Luckily DC has always been following their own path without looking toward the crowd.

Exact same situation here. DC has the same mindset.